Revenant Suggested Changes

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

After listening to members in the community and seeing some of the many suggestions on how to improve Revenant, I think I have managed to come up with my own suggestions on how to make him a much better, more fluid frame gameplay wise. The objective of these changes is to improve synergy and performance of Revenant's abilities to make him less costly, have more fluid synergy, and to improve his potential DPS without relying entirely on Spin to Win.

Starting off with Enthrall: 

1. Give thralls immunity to ally damage. Thralls die far too easily from ally attacks to be overly useful, especially from the likes of Saryn and other AOE based damage frames.

2. Give enemies that have been enthralled as a result of being damaged by other thralls independent duration counts rather than relying on the original thrall's duration. This would allow Revenant to have at least one thrall as often as possible to suit his kit.

3. Have the damaging pillars of energy resulting from a thrall's death gain additional damage based on a percentage of the enthralled enemy's total health, similar to Oberon's Smite. This will help with Revenant's scaling issues aside from Danse Macabre and reward the player for enthralling more tanky, higher level enemies.

4. Have thralls give overshields on death if killed by Revenant regardless of whether they are killed by Danse Macabre or not. This will give Revenant some more reliable support capabilities and require less energy to do so. Also, on the topic of killing thralls with Danse Macabre, I think having the damaging energy pillars gain an increase in damage and size (therefore Power Range) when killed by Danse Macabre would be a nice addition to add more DPS to Revenant's kit.

5. Give thralls a damage increase to their attacks based on Revenant's Power Strength percentage similar to Nekros' Shadows of the Dead. This will make the thralls themselves more useful rather than being meat shields or to just exist for the sake of the death pillars. This would also match the Eidolon theme with how the Teralyst, Gantulyst, and Hydrolyst are able to buff the damage output of accompanying Vomvalysts.

6. Improve the duration of the damaging pillars of energy by a few seconds. The pillars don't really seem to last very long even on duration based builds, and it would be nice to see their base duration increased by a few seconds so they can properly do their job.

 

Next we go to Reave:

1. Switch Reave and Mesmer Skin so Reave is Revenant's second power. This would reduce its energy cost and make it more worth using overall. I also think reducing the cost of Reave when used during Danse Macabre would help to reduce energy dependency in Revenant's kit overall.

2. On top of replenishing Shields and Health, have Reave replenish charges for Mesmer Skin based on number of enemies hit. This will add further synergy to Revenant's kit, improve the usefulness of Reave, and improve the lifespan of Mesmer Skin all at once.

3. Either buff the base percentage of health/shields gained, or make Reave's stats scale with Power Strength and Power Range. Right now, Reave feels far too weak to be worth using other than for movement during Danse Macabre. This would improve its effectiveness and again, make it much more worth using.

4. Give Revenant damage invulnerability during Reave similar to Slash Dash and the like for consistency sake.

 

Now moving on to Mesmer Skin:

1. To accommodate the movement of Mesmer Skin to the third power slot, and therefore increasing its energy cost, improve the base number of charges from 6 to say 8 or 10 if not more. A large complaint from the community is how quickly Mesmer Skin runs out of charges. This combined with Reave replenishing them at a lesser energy cost would help with these complaints.

2. Make Mesmer Skin more consistent and more useful as to what it protects Revenant from, particularly AOE attacks. Right now it seems Mesmer Skin currently protects Revenant from some AOE based damage some times, then doesn't at other times. This seems to be a bug, but consistency is important. One primary example is Revenant seems to take Toxin damage from Mutalist Ospreys at times while Mesmer Skin is active and other times he doesn't in my experience.

3. Add more Eidolon-esque visual effects to Mesmer Skin such as more tendrils, more energy streams, etc. This is entirely an aesthetic suggestion, and as such isn't overly necessary, but I think Mesmer Skin could use more Eidolon like effects on top of the mist and the tendrils on his left shoulder to make it more visually interesting. 

 

Finally, we move on to Danse Macabre:

1. Decrease the energy cost per second of Danse Macabre, or improve the DPS of Danse Macabre to accommodate for the recent nerf to energy efficiency. Ever since Danse Macabre had its energy consumption per second increased from 13 per second to 20 per second, the power has become extremely draining to the point of not being worth the energy loss in many situations, especially with how much Revenant relies on Power Strength. I think decreasing the energy cost per second down to 15 or 16 would accomplish the same goal without making the power too costly. Or, as stated earlier, increasing the base DPS of Danse Macabre to accommodate the large energy per second cost would be a fine compromise.

2. Slightly increase the base status chance of Danse Macabre. I don't feel like the energy beams activate status effects as often as they should. I think giving the status chance of the power a slight increase from 20% to 25-30% normally and 50-60% when boosted would make it much more noticeable without being overpowered.

 

I also think a secondary passive related to Revenant's shields, due to his Eidolon origins, would be nice. For example, giving his shields a 15-20% flat damage reduction bonus to make his shields more similar to how strong Eidolon shields are.

Let me know what you all think and feel free to add suggestions/comments! I really like Revenant as a concept and want to see him improved to meet his potential.

Edited September 4, 2018 by DawnoftheWhiteFury

[KennBone]

dam this is first time im fully agree on all option/suggested changes. it really will make revenant more viable and efective to use ( atm is  good but those tweaks can improve alot )

[GGbroman]

1 hour ago, DawnoftheWhiteFury said:

1. Give thralls immunity to ally damage. Thralls die far too easily from ally attacks to be overly useful, especially from the likes of Saryn and other AOE based damage frames.

Great set of suggestions 🙂

 

I have an extremely specific request:

I want to suggest: Instead of making it immune to allies permanently, make them immune to allies for a fixed duration of time (i don't think this should scale off power duration so a fixed 10 -> 30 seconds should be nice (i don't know the exact number so i threw an approximate invulnerability time range)).

during the cooldown and ONLY during the enthralled cooldown

• you (the revenant that enthralled the enemies) can still damage them.
• status procs can't affect enthralled enemies 
• they can't take damage
• saryn's spores can still attatch to those enemies but not damage them so saryn's spore damage will still keep increasing in damage with no problems or issues.
• limbo's stasis won't work against them (but will freeze them after the cooldown should limbo's duration on stasis is still up while the enthralled enemies are in the rift)
• limbo's banish will work on enthralled enemies but does not damage them.
• limbo can still do his rift surge on those enemies and it will function
• oberon's renewal.....well um nekros' minions already annoys him cuz they are constantly losing health.....so i suggest it affects the enthralled enemies ONLY during the cooldown so it doesn't hurt oberon that badly
• oberon's combo to remove armor can affect the enthralled enemies
• they are immune to enthralled enemies
• sorry inaros.....you aint devouring them but your scarab swarm can be on them, it just won't make them stay in place until the cooldown ends. this means scarab swarm will be able to move from enemy to enemy from the enthralled enemies just because they are moving around. #synergy

there's probably more things to go in this list but that's what I can think of at the moment

 

Why this suggestion? 
it's due to the fact that endurance runs might get a bit difficult in terms of keeping a consistent amount of kills to keep life support up if allies are waiting on revenant to kill those 7 enemies he captures at a time so the life support can drop from them. And ofc there's the usual risks of :

• troll revenants holding onto 7 enemies with max duration which hurts survivals a whole lot and makes defense missions annoying
• the four revenant scenario where it'll be slightly hard to figure out which enemy is yours to kill with your weaponry (not neccesarily your fourth ability since that is huge ranged and stuff)

 

Edited September 3, 2018 by GGbroman
clarification on the reason why for the suggestion

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

24 minutes ago, GGbroman said:

Great set of suggestions 🙂

 

I have an extremely specific request:

I want to suggest: Instead of making it immune to allies permanently, make them immune to allies for a fixed duration of time (i don't think this should scale off power duration so a fixed 10 -> 30 seconds should be nice (i don't know the exact number so i threw an approximate invulnerability time range)).

during the cooldown and ONLY during the enthralled cooldown

• you (the revenant that enthralled the enemies) can still damage them.
• status procs can't affect enthralled enemies 
• they can't take damage
• saryn's spores can still attatch to those enemies but not damage them so saryn's spore damage will still keep increasing in damage with no problems or issues.
• limbo's stasis won't work against them (but will freeze them after the cooldown should limbo's duration on stasis is still up while the enthralled enemies are in the rift)
• limbo's banish will work on enthralled enemies but does not damage them.
• limbo can still do his rift surge on those enemies and it will function
• oberon's renewal.....well um nekros' minions already annoys him cuz they are constantly losing health.....so i suggest it affects the enthralled enemies ONLY during the cooldown so it doesn't hurt oberon that badly
• oberon's combo to remove armor can affect the enthralled enemies
• they are immune to enthralled enemies
• sorry inaros.....you aint devouring them but your scarab swarm can be on them, it just won't make them stay in place until the cooldown ends. this means scarab swarm will be able to move from enemy to enemy from the enthralled enemies just because they are moving around. #synergy

there's probably more things to go in this list but that's what I can think of at the moment

 

Why this suggestion? 
it's due to the fact that endurance runs might get a bit difficult in terms of keeping a consistent amount of kills to keep life support up if allies are waiting on revenant to kill those 7 enemies he captures at a time so the life support can drop from them. And ofc there's the usual risks of :

• troll revenants holding onto 7 enemies with max duration which hurts survivals a whole lot and makes defense missions annoying
• the four revenant scenario where it'll be slightly hard to figure out which enemy is yours to kill with your weaponry (not neccesarily your fourth ability since that is huge ranged and stuff)

 

This suggestion is great but the issue has already been remedied. Enthralled enemies no longer count towards the kill requirement for Endurance runs like Defense missions. Meaning if Revenant were to enthrall the final enemy of a Defense wave, the enemy no longer counts toward the overall kill requirement of that wave and is carried over as a thrall into the next wave. The wave moves on without counting the thralls. I dont know when this change was made or if it was intentional, but thats been the case on Hydron lately. The wave would move on despite enemies being left alive under Revenant's control. Otherwise make adjustments to enemy spawning similarly so the game doesnt count enthralled enemies. Make the same changes to Nyx's Mind Control as well.

Edited September 3, 2018 by DawnoftheWhiteFury

[GGbroman]

17 minutes ago, DawnoftheWhiteFury said:

This suggestion is great but the issue has already been remedied. Enthralled enemies no longer count towards the kill requirement for Endurance runs like Defense missions. Meaning if Revenant were to enthrall the final enemy of a Defense wave, the enemy no longer counts toward the overall kill requirement of that wave and is carried over as a thrall into the next wave. The wave moves on without counting the thralls. I dont know when this change was made or if it was intentional, but thats been the case on Hydron lately. The wave would move on despite enemies being left alive under Revenant's control

O_O ok cool i didn't know that. Thanks for letting me know 🙂

then the cooldown is for survivals then 🙂

Edited September 3, 2018 by GGbroman
small edit

[SneakyErvin]

Just make thralls spread like Saryns spores up to their cap of 7, problem solved. No risk for trolling and so on plus it makes him smoother to play.

Regarding Reave and Mesmer. I really wonder how the hell people play Rev if they have issues with how it is now. Reave and Mesmer really dont need to change places, you use neither of them very often. Reave is a good (and cheap enough) reposition tool that shouldnt be spammed. Mesmer is a good defensive skill that does what it should as it is. Having Reave refill mesmer skin charges would make Rev silly OP. I do support the immunity during Reave travel though.

Mesmer skin already lasts atleast 5 minutes without having to be recast in densly populated higher level missions. There must be a drawback to the skill. This skill also makes Reave pointless to buff when it comes to healing and shields, just as it is kinda pointless to make overshields easier to obtain from thralls. And the reason some attacks arent stopped is because those are likely straight up AoE effects with no real attack involved. Just as he can block the napalm projectile but not the AoE hotspot it leaves behind if it hits the ground.

Onto Danse Macabre. It really doesnt need many more changes. At 5/sec (properly modded) it is perfectly fine if used right and not as a 24/7 snooze skill. Rev also doesnt need massive amounts of power strength. Danse already does plenty of damage high up in the levels and if you play well you dont need the strength for more Mesmer charges either. I'm sitting at 194% strength which gives me 11 charges (well actually 12 because the 0 also counts) and they last for a long time. This strength is also enough to make Danse more than strong enough to kill things easy at higher levels.

You simply manage Rev like you manage Rhino, keep an eye on your charges and you're immortal more or less.

What I would like to see changed is his passive, because with the way Rev works, the effect really doesnt have a chance to happen in between Mesmer casts.

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

26 minutes ago, GGbroman said:

the four revenant scenario where it'll be slightly hard to figure out which enemy is yours to kill with your weaponry (not neccesarily your fourth ability since that is huge ranged and stuff)

 

Also you can tell which thralls are yours based on energy color, but I can imagine this still being hard for some.

[DrakeWurrum]

My personal issue with the Revenant is about his lore.

Supposedly, he's a sort of warden who was put in place to keep the eidolons in check, striking them back down each and every night to protect the citizens of Cetus.

Yet his power set.... is completely, absolutely, 100% worthless for the eidolon fights! This is just plain illogical.
 

Spoiler

If he was a person who had been critically injured by a Sentient or an Eidolon, only for Ballas to use him in an experiment with the Helminth strain of infestation... resulting in a Warframe that could wield Sentient/Eidolon energy... that would've been more fitting, I think.

 

Edited September 3, 2018 by DrakeWurrum

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

2 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

My personal issue with the Revenant is about his lore.

Supposedly, he's a sort of warden who was put in place to keep the eidolons in check, striking them back down each and every night to protect the citizens of Cetus.

Yet his power set.... is completely, absolutely, 100% worthless for the eidolon fights! This is just plain illogical.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

If he was a person who had been critically injured by a Sentient or an Eidolon, only for Ballas to use him in an experiment with the Helminth strain of infestation... resulting in a Warframe that could wield Sentient/Eidolon energy... that would've been more fitting, I think.

 

Because Revenant was corrupted by the Eidolons after being drug down to the depths as stated in the quest. The Revenant we have isnt the original Revenant which is why he's all about affliction and has Eidolon/Sentient abilities.

Edited September 4, 2018 by DawnoftheWhiteFury

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Great ideas, too bad you posted it in the wrong forum area.

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

55 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Great ideas, too bad you posted it in the wrong forum area.

What exactly would be the proper area then? Already linked this post in the Revenant Megathread lol

Edited September 4, 2018 by DawnoftheWhiteFury

[iuki.]

* fix the darned nullifier bug where lanka shots completely ignores mesmer skin/danse macbre.

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

How does one request to have a post moved to a different area?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

9 minutes ago, DawnoftheWhiteFury said:

How does one request to have a post moved to a different area?

If you posted it in the megathread then nvm

[Kothophed]

I agree with all of the changes, save decreasing the energy cost on Danse and making Thralls invulnerable.  I like Danse where it is, as a payoff for Enthrall rather than the centerpiece of Rev's kit.  For Thralls, I'd say they should refund half the cost of Enthrall when killed with more than half of their duration.  It would give more incentive to run duration builds with him, and make Thrall death feel less bad in general.  Lastly, the duration of the columns needs to be increased; I run with Primed Continuity and Constitution, and the columns still disappear before doing any damage most of the time.

[Oreades]

Honestly what I want more than anything aside from the Thralls being immune to friendly fire is for them to just ditch the existing 4 and give the Revenant the Sentient Arm Canon (or an Arm Canon) as an Exalted Weapon. 

Primary fire being charged like the Opticor but has a longer active burn time so you can essentially drag it past enemies. 

Secondary fire also charged but launches a series of tracking projectiles. 

 

Essentially give him the same abilities the Teralist uses during the initial Eidolon fight instead of spinning. 

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

5 hours ago, Kothophed said:

I agree with all of the changes, save decreasing the energy cost on Danse and making Thralls invulnerable.  I like Danse where it is, as a payoff for Enthrall rather than the centerpiece of Rev's kit.  For Thralls, I'd say they should refund half the cost of Enthrall when killed with more than half of their duration.  It would give more incentive to run duration builds with him, and make Thrall death feel less bad in general.  Lastly, the duration of the columns needs to be increased; I run with Primed Continuity and Constitution, and the columns still disappear before doing any damage most of the time.

Absolutely agree about the duration issue on the columns. They dont last very long at all currently.

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

4 hours ago, Oreades said:

Honestly what I want more than anything aside from the Thralls being immune to friendly fire is for them to just ditch the existing 4 and give the Revenant the Sentient Arm Canon (or an Arm Canon) as an Exalted Weapon. 

Primary fire being charged like the Opticor but has a longer active burn time so you can essentially drag it past enemies. 

Secondary fire also charged but launches a series of tracking projectiles. 

 

Essentially give him the same abilities the Teralist uses during the initial Eidolon fight instead of spinning. 

This is a really cool idea honestly. This thread is more about making his current abilities better though rather than completely reworking him. I do like this idea a lot though if they choose to replace Danse Macabre.