Elite Onslaught is Pointless Boredom Because of Saryn

[Buttaface]

13 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

I can understand your sentiment but i do think we should start off by nerfing Ember further instead.

Simply must be trolling given the postcount. 3/10 troll attempt.

[miomima]

11 минут назад, EvilChaosKnight сказал:

Idk, personally I feel like OP is seriously overestimating the amount of contempt playerbase has towards Saryn. Especially compared to EXP/loot/focus benefits others enjoy.

Its not first post on forum where people ask to tone down Saryn abilities, and there a lot of people in this threads who suports them. Personaly i dont like to play with Saryn and as Saryn, and if i play as Saryn people who play with me dont gona enjoy this session (Unless they place their profit above gameplay). And at point when you farm everything you want - there is Saryn who ruining your gameplay.

Edited September 7, 2018 by miomima

[Peter]

19 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

You don't know what you're talking about at all.

She annihilates Corpus and decimates Infested enemies.

It is only strong because the Index favors its mechanics, now try to do the same in normal missions of lvl 100+.

The same goes for any other nuker.

It continues with your strengths and weaknesses, what you want is that it suits your style of play, and I'm sorry but it will not happen, do you want to bring improvements? Let's talk about Vauban and Ember, what do you think? rather than complaining about one of the few viable frames currently.

It's because of this kind of cry that many frames die, and then complain that DE nerfs everything, you do not love Saryn, it's just another guy who does not want to see Saryn do more than your main. An meta complainer like always.

Volt and Equinox does the same, Titania and Mesa still has the best DPS of the game, your complain has no point.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Peter

[miomima]

16 минут назад, Peter сказал:

Let's talk about Vauban and Ember, what do you think? rather than complaining about one of the few viable frames currently.

You know why no one uses Vauban or Nyx for example, outside of having fun with them? Because frames like Saryn, not because they are weak - they are not, they strong as hell BUT there is Saryn which destroys any need in their abilities, she can perma stun enemies on whole map, and kill them in process just by pressing 2 buttons.
 

Nyx player:"Look i can proc radiation on whole map with one button press, amazing right! 🙂 "
Saryn player in squad:"Yea, about that radiation proc... "

And you can`t buff other frames to being viable till there is a frame that can do pretty much everything without any help outside.

Edited September 7, 2018 by miomima

[Peter]

8 minutes ago, miomima said:

You know why no one uses Vauban or Nyx for example, outside of having fun with them? Because frames like Saryn, not because they are weak - they are not, they strong as hell BUT there is Saryn which destroys any need in their abilities, she can perma stun enemies on whole map, and kill them in process just by pressing 2 buttons.
 

Nyx player:"Look i can proc radiation on whole map with one button press, amazing right! 🙂 "
Saryn player in squad:"Yea, about that radiation proc... "

And you can`t buff other frames to being viable till there is a frame that can do pretty much everything.

Nukers have been around for quite some time in this game, but like I said before, it's not every mission they fit into.

What I detest in this community is destructive rather than constructive suggestion. Is Saryn strong or is it that others are extremely weak?

For example: Why would I take a Nyx if I can go from Oberon to do exactly the same thing and still provide healing buffs and armor?

Why should I take Vauban if I can go from Limbo or even from Slowva? Limbo paralyzes everything in a much larger area and still grants regeneration of energy. Slowva besides delaying a giant area it doubles all the damage received.

The problem is not Saryn, but the lack of creativity and efficiency in the vast majority of Waframes.

What I want you to understand is that there will always be someone to take the place of Saryn, she is not the only one able to do this currently, the difference is that it has a very strong synergy with the Index, but which Warframe does not have a synergy with a kind of mission? Is this really a problem or a feature?

Pablo is doing a great job and I hope that I can correct all those who have been forgotten, including, Nezha has already been announced.

 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Peter

[miomima]

9 минут назад, Peter сказал:

Why should I take Vauban if I can go from Limbo

The problem is not Saryn, but the lack of creativity and efficiency in the vast majority of Waframes.

Because vauban unlike limbo dont scared of nulifiers? because he can drop and sustain more than one stun point? because he not abstruct vision? because you can shot from inside of bastile?
Vauban is insanely strong, he can perma CC whole map, and not some defence map, but some progression map like capture. But he is not needed because who can stun whole map? -Saryn and Volt.

Saryn IS the problem why other frames is not used, if you tone her down with equinox and volt - there gona be much more variety in frame picks.

Game become "press 4 to win" and for some reson people happy about it.

Edited September 7, 2018 by miomima

[Hellmaker2004]

1 hour ago, miomima said:

Vauban is insanely strong, he can perma CC whole map, and not some defence map, but some progression map like capture. But he is not needed because who can stun whole map? -Saryn

Saryn stunning a whole map?

Is this another of those "facts" that you base on how it feelsl? Because this is simply not true.

Now Miasma have three things going for it.
It has a decent default area of effect at 20 meter.
And it does not require line of sight.
Despite being a fourth ability only cost 75.

However you are aware the duration is only 6 seconds right?
You are aware that unlike the majority of other CC effects in the game, Miasma does not reset the stun duration if you recast it on foes already afflicted by it?
You are aware the stun duration can not be extended with duration mods, right?
 

Now i have no doubt that Saryn can Miasma a entire ESO map. It is the perfect  map for her because how fast enemies spawn and how tiny the map is. But i can assure you that on almost any other map she can not, and unless you have mobs only spawning exactly at every 6 second interval and always inside Miasma range then you will not be stunlocking anything, stunning some yes. But she will not perma CC a entire map.

[EinheriarJudith]

15 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

The Solution

• If Spores are nerfed to ensure they don't ramp up fast and murder all things forever, then there ought to be a matching buff to its sustain. How about this? Decrease the rate at which Spores ramp up in damage. Also, provide a few seconds of grace before inactive Spore starts decaying, and decrease the rate at which Spores decay. Many players will still want to have Spores on all the time, but now are free to have it off sometimes without 'punishment' and aren't pressured to recast Spores asap.

they also need to ensure spores isnt killing enemies off screen. no frames should be killing enemies outside of the room they are in. id move spore to 4 and miasma to 3 and toxic lash to 1.

[miomima]

22 минуты назад, Hellmaker2004 сказал:

Saryn stunning a whole map?

Is this another of those "facts" that you base on how it feelsl? Because this is simply not true.

Now Miasma have three things going for it.
It has a decent default area of effect at 20 meter.
And it does not require line of sight.
Despite being a fourth ability only cost 75.

However you are aware the duration is only 6 seconds right?
You are aware that unlike the majority of other CC effects in the game, Miasma does not reset the stun duration if you recast it on foes already afflicted by it?
You are aware the stun duration can not be extended with duration mods, right?
 

Now i have no doubt that Saryn can Miasma a entire ESO map. It is the perfect  map for her because how fast enemies spawn and how tiny the map is. But i can assure you that on almost any other map she can not, and unless you have mobs only spawning exactly at every 6 second interval and always inside Miasma range then you will not be stunlocking anything, stunning some yes. But she will not perma CC a entire map.

Saryn CAN permastun whole defence like map, and that is a fact, just press miasma once more when you see that one unit out of stun (or you can do maths and even do a macro if you want) You can enter yourself as range saryn on any defence map and bash 4, its a fact. and surprise surprise its already enough to any defence, mobile defence and interception missions (and a bit of excavation). if there 0,1 second that enemy can move or shot the "WOW ITS NOT PERMASTUN! LOOK! NOT OP! DONT NERF! LOOK! I DO MAFF". Miasma is beyond broken, spores is beyond broken, and that combined into tanky frame gives us what? - 0 variety, there is no reason to pick anything but Saryn, Rhino or Equinox, even Volt is only that popular because he is the only frame that can boost operator damage.

I dont even know why i try to argue with you. Its like trying to make a contact with someone with OCD. Good luck, hope some year or 2latter all frames gona have "end mission" button and you all gone be happy.

[Hellmaker2004]

2 hours ago, miomima said:

if there 0,1 second that enemy can move or shot the "WOW ITS NOT PERMASTUN! LOOK! NOT OP! DONT NERF! LOOK! I DO MAFF"

If you played Saryn you would know this is not about the 0.1 second or 0 second if you perfect it this is about.

Miasma have two different element to it. One is the Damage "cloud", the other is the Stun "cloud".

Stun Cloud is only influenced by Range mods.
Damage Cloud is influenced by Duration, Range and Power strenght mods.

Here is the kicker, if a mob is afflicted by either the Stun Cloud or the Damage Cloud, then they are immune to the Stun Cloud being refreshed. However, the Damage Cloud can be refreshed.

So lets play a little game, lets assume you use 100% Duration Saryn, this is the best one for "Perma stunlocking" as you like to call it.
If you cast Miasma, you now have afflicted all mobs inside the range by both afflictions, despite how it is worded however Miasma is not a lingering cloud on the area. It simply give the two "diseases" types to everyone in range.

This mean that those mobs are now immune to the Stun Cloud for the next 6 seconds that  the damage or the stun cloud lingers on them. However if you recast Miasma all you do is reset the duration on the Damage cloud on those foes, since they are immune to the stun cloud due to being afflicted by either the Stun or the Damage Cloud.

And that my friend is the difference between most other CC frames. If you refresh the damage aspect of Miasma then you also extends the period foes are immune to the Stun effect. This means that if any other mob walk inside your range during that time you have to choice between either.

A: Stun the new mobs, but by doing so extend the duration of how long the old mobs are immune to being stunned by you again.

 

Or

B: Keep your head cool and wait for the full duration to end before recasting. And by doing so not only are you not inflicting the new mobs by Miasma damage aspect or the stun aspect. But if they were to die those new mobs will now not spread any spore they may have.
 

Oh and i can assure you her range is not enough for most defense objective to "stunlock" as you would call it.
And at 190% Power Range, You do not have enough Range on Miasma to afflict everyone even on some of the ESO maps. And most ESO maps are much smaller than defense maps.
Sure there is no doubt those using more power range, but you can not get power range whitout sacrificing something else. Saryn despite what a lot of people think, do not have 10x the mod slots compared to other frames.

 

After some more testing i have concluded that it is highly implausible to stunlock anything with Saryn, now i will not deny that you can stun mobs, that is indeed something she can do with Miasma. But there simply are to many restriction and "random" factors to account for to even come close to what stunlock foes would imply.

The stun duration is not tied to the ability itself but instead it is tied to the skeletal animation afflicted foes are using, for some it is the stated 6 seconds. For other it is 4 seconds, there are even foes who are unafflicted by the stun due to not having a animation associated, yet one of the worst contender here is those who have multiple animation with different length. Those foe will randomly pick one of the animation and thus even if you were to use negative duration value to stop the damage "cloud" aspect of Miasma from interfering, you  would still be at the mercy of what animation some of the foes would use.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Hellmaker2004
Eximus was wrong, looks like the stun have two different animation that have different duration.

[miomima]

38 минут назад, Hellmaker2004 сказал:

So lets play a little game, lets assume you use 100% Duration Saryn, this is the best one for "Perma stunlocking" as you like to call it.

for perma stunlocking best is negative duration 

[miomima]

no permastunlocking btw, this frame not killing any of pure CC frames, its just an illusion, move along.

[Kraythax]

21 hours ago, seprent said:

proof? so far all we have is your word 

 i found it and its a single listing for 150 plat posted yesterday if people were spam posting it why is it only one and the only thing listed on the account? 

• Lanka satitak 
• 107.4% multi shot
• 67.7% fire rate 

I don't have a Lanka riven, and If I did, I would be using it. If I had a spare Id give it to my daughter, if I had another spare I would give it to my son who is a US marine and doesn't have time to farm.

People just have to be twits sometimes I guess. 

Oh and by the way I am under no obligation to prove anything to you but if I really had one to sell and if I had ever registered at that site and if I had posted the riven, why on earth would I complain about people messaging me. And furthermore you might notice the seller is MR13 and I ma MR20. 

Game ... Set ... Match ...

 

[Buttaface]

2 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

they also need to ensure spores isnt killing enemies off screen. no frames should be killing enemies outside of the room they are in. id move spore to 4 and miasma to 3 and toxic lash to 1.

In a nutshell. Right here it is folks. NO frame power should be killing mobs en masse before the team can see, let alone engage them. Would seem to be "monster game" design 101, yet in WF...

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

Just give spores duration like they used to have. 

[Jax_Cavalera]

Saryn isn't the solution to global world hunger or the only everything in an area of effect dies type frame. What she is.. would be an effective AOE frame, much like all the other AOE frames out there when used correctly. She is fine the way she is, if you prefer the slow grind and to do things the hard way, that's on you.

Warframe is based around grinding to get stuff so the best way to get stuff is killing more than one enemy at a time and surprisingly (or not) the most effective way to do that is with things that can target multiple enemies at a time.. you know things that can affect enemies within an area. The most cancerous thing in the community is players that ask for nerfs.

The game is NOT competitive so you aren't gonna be "winning" or "losing" if someone else in the squad has a strong loadout. Balance is important to keep things challenging and fun, however when the entire focus of a game is on getting things by killing enemies, it becomes less and less fun doing so 1 enemy at a time because using AOE type abilities are nerfed. If you want me to ever agree to nerfing an AOE type ability, first convince DE to shift their focus away from driving plat sales with grind walls.

When they remove farmable items + resource boosters out of the market place, they'll have no benefit in making the grind so heavy and that means mobs can drop better quantities of whatever it is you may be farming for.. which means.. I'll be 100% happy to kill 1 enemy at a time.. but right now as it stands.. I refuse to consign myself to a life of killing enemies with a blunt spoon, 1 at a time. There's a time and place for torture.. but my game-time is not it.

[miomima]

16 минут назад, Jax_Cavalera сказал:

Saryn isn't the solution to global world hunger or the only everything in an area of effect dies type frame. What she is.. would be an effective AOE frame, much like all the other AOE frames out there when used correctly. She is fine the way she is, if you prefer the slow grind and to do things the hard way, that's on you.

Warframe is based around grinding to get stuff so the best way to get stuff is killing more than one enemy at a time and surprisingly (or not) the most effective way to do that is with things that can target multiple enemies at a time.. you know things that can affect enemies within an area. The most cancerous thing in the community is players that ask for nerfs.

The game is NOT competitive so you aren't gonna be "winning" or "losing" if someone else in the squad has a strong loadout. Balance is important to keep things challenging and fun, however when the entire focus of a game is on getting things by killing enemies, it becomes less and less fun doing so 1 enemy at a time because using AOE type abilities are nerfed. If you want me to ever agree to nerfing an AOE type ability, first convince DE to shift their focus away from driving plat sales with grind walls.

When they remove farmable items + resource boosters out of the market place, they'll have no benefit in making the grind so heavy and that means mobs can drop better quantities of whatever it is you may be farming for.. which means.. I'll be 100% happy to kill 1 enemy at a time.. but right now as it stands.. I refuse to consign myself to a life of killing enemies with a blunt spoon, 1 at a time. There's a time and place for torture.. but my game-time is not it.

And what you gona do when there is nothing to grind? happily press 4? Game never should be balanced around grind. there is a lot of frames who can kill dozens of enemies but... im too lazy to type it 100 times.

Edited September 8, 2018 by miomima

[Peter]

6 hours ago, miomima said:

Because vauban unlike limbo dont scared of nulifiers? because he can drop and sustain more than one stun point? because he not abstruct vision? because you can shot from inside of bastile?
Vauban is insanely strong, he can perma CC whole map, and not some defence map, but some progression map like capture. But he is not needed because who can stun whole map? -Saryn and Volt.

Saryn IS the problem why other frames is not used, if you tone her down with equinox and volt - there gona be much more variety in frame picks.

Game become "press 4 to win" and for some reson people happy about it.

Vauban can't stay alive in high level missions, you die in one hit. And nullifier isn't a problem when you reduce the range a bit. 

Limbo gives immortality and the best cc of the game, vauban can't protect from shots with bastille.

And about Saryn. she does the same of another nukers, press 4 to win only exists because EOS is bad designed, no challenges like showed on devstream or improvements for the enemies. Only 200 copies of the same creature in a small room dropping a lot of energy orbs. 

What did you expect for it? 

 

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

21 minutes ago, miomima said:

The game is NOT competitive so you aren't gonna be "winning" or "losing" 

It's not. But remember my motto "FunFrame before KillFrame, but never before FashionFrame"

It's not a competitive game. However, like I already stated, the fun stems from killing enemies. It's a horde shooter after all. Having nothing to kill because it's all getting dissolved by X broken thing makes the grind quicker, but also makes it boring and stagnant. Fun is what keeps players here, making the grind fun.

[Peter]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

It's not. But remember my motto "FunFrame before KillFrame, but never before FashionFrame"

It's not a competitive game. However, like I already stated, the fun stems from killing enemies. It's a horde shooter after all. Having nothing to kill because it's all getting dissolved by X broken thing makes the grind quicker, but also makes it boring and stagnant. Fun is what keeps players here, making the grind fun.

So make a party with the frames you want. Wanting to force people to play with what you like is not fun ;]

Edited September 8, 2018 by Peter

[DrBorris]

I can't help but feel that this is only because of Saryn in ESO. Like, I have played with some potent Saryns in other game modes, but she is not nearly as dominant as some like to make her out to be. Let's go through all of the mission types, shall we?

• Arena: She can strip their armor, I guess, but then get decimated as she has very little in the way of pure defense.
• Assassination: Same as above.
• Assault: You are moving so much spores never get to take hold much, not enough enemies in the defense section.
• Capture: Lol, this is a speed run.
• Defection: Far too big of a map for Saryn, also CC/Healing is far better than DPS here.
• Defense: Have fun resetting your damage between waves.
• Excavation: Meh enemy spans, constantly having to run around, not looking too great. She may get some decent DPS with spores, but nothing better than another DPS or a trusty gun/melee.
• Exterminate: Lol, good luck casting/spreading before everyone is dead.
• Free Roam/Bounty: Even max range is not enough.
• Hijack: First, no once cares. Second, too much movement and not enough spawns.
• Infested Salvage: I have never used Saryn here, but if the spawns are as good as I remember Saryn may be one of the best frames for this mode. That makes the grand total so far... one.
• Interception: Waaaay too inconsistent.
• Junction: Yeah... no.
• Mobile Defense: Saryn can build up some decent damage here, but nothing crazy as she will most likely reset between terminals.
• Rescue: Speed runs are not great for Spore, Molt can be a fun speedy tool though.
• Sabotage: More speed, less spore.
• Spy: Getting a spore on a drone is the last thing you want, just don't even use Spore near a vault.
• Survival: While on paper she would be great here, due to spawn rates and spawn mechanics with multiple rooms you can never maintain a super high damage with spore. As compared to other DPS, Saryn is a solid "meh".
• Sanctuary Onslaught: Saryn is the queen of this mode, probably past the line of OP.

There you have it, out of seventeen game modes Saryn is only definitely OP in one and the other is only run to farm a single Warframe. If you really think a nerf is necessary because of one mode, even though she is actually pretty lackluster in the majority of game modes, I think you just need to take a breather and count to ten. Look at the bigger picture please, if you nerf Spore then you will kill Saryn in the majority of content, she may still work in some but she is already riding the line in most modes as it is.

 

Don't confuse this for me saying Saryn is bad in most game modes, she is a great frame, but OP? Hell no. Well, except SO/ESO, but nerfing because of one game type is stupid.

Edited September 8, 2018 by DrBorris

[miomima]

People actualy that much dont like the game - so they trying to skip everything by finding cheesiest methods and tools

[f3llyn]

On 2018-09-06 at 12:26 PM, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

I love Saryn, I really do. I love playing her, I love all her abilities and how destructive she is.

However, I feel empathy towards other players. I can see why, when playing with a good Saryn, they can get bored when everything is being dissolved. This is a horde shooter game. Thus, 80% of the fun comes from killing enemies. Having a Saryn obliterate everything and leaving nothing for other players to kill might leave a stagnant taste in their mouths and, eventually, they'll come to resent the Warframe.

My proposal: Spores now drain energy per second por as long as, at least, one enemy is infected. The energy increases by X every time a Y threshold of damage is reached (1 energy per second everytime damage goes up by 1,000). If energy runs out while Spores is active or you hold down the ability, all spores explode and deal X amount of damage based off the current value (like how it was when Saryn 2.5 dropped)

With this change, you can't simply stack ridiculous amounts of damage and easily maintain it. A nerf? Maybe. Will it alleviate Saryn's eating away at everything? Probably so.

A damage frame doing what a damage frame is supposed to do. What a horrible thing.

I have an alternative proposal - make other damaging frames better. Nerfs are never fun no matter how good intention-ed you are.

Edited September 8, 2018 by f3llyn

[miomima]

3 минуты назад, DrBorris сказал:

I can't help but feel that this is only because of Saryn in ESO. Like, I have played with some potent Saryns in other game modes, but she is not nearly as dominant as some like to make her out to be. Let's go through all of the mission types, shall we?

• Arena: She can strip their armor, I guess, but then get decimated as she has very little in the way of pure defense.
• Assassination: Same as above.
• Assault: You are moving so much spores never get to take hold much, not enough enemies in the defense section.
• Capture: Lol, this is a speed run.
• Defection: Far too big of a map for Saryn, also CC/Healing is far better than DPS here.
• Defense: Have fun resetting your damage between waves.
• Excavation: Meh enemy spans, constantly having to run around, not looking too great. She may get some decent DPS with spores, but nothing better than another DPS or a trusty gun/melee.
• Exterminate: Lol, good luck casting/spreading before everyone is dead.
• Free Roam/Bounty: Even max range is not enough.
• Hijack: First, no once cares. Second, too much movement and not enough spawns.
• Infested Salvage: I have never used Saryn here, but if the spawns are as good as I remember Saryn may be one of the best frames for this mode. That makes the grand total so far... one.
• Interception: Waaaay too inconsistent.
• Junction: Yeah... no.
• Mobile Defense: Saryn can build up some decent damage here, but nothing crazy as she will most likely reset between terminals.
• Rescue: Speed runs are not great for Spore, Molt can be a fun speedy tool though.
• Sabotage: More speed, less spore.
• Spy: Getting a spore on a drone is the last thing you want, just don't even use Spore near a vault.
• Survival: While on paper she would be great here, due to spawn rates and spawn mechanics with multiple rooms you can never maintain a super high damage with spore. As compared to toehr DPS, Saryn is a solid "meh".
• Sanctuary Onslaught: Saryn is the queen of this mode, probably past the line of OP.

There you have it, out of seventeen game modes Saryn is only definitely OP in one and the other is only run to farm a single Warframe. If you really think a nerf is necessary because of one mode, even though she is actually pretty lackluster in the majority of game modes, I think you just need to take a breather and count to ten. Look at the bigger picture please, if you nerf Spore then you will kill Saryn in the majority of content, she may still work in some but she is already riding the line in most modes as it is.

 

Don't confuse this for me saying Saryn is bad in most game modes, she is a great frame, but OP? Hell no. Well, except SO/ESO, but nerfing because of one game type is stupid.

all of this only true for 3-4 missions, saryn IS tanky, on low level content (all content below sortie) she kills everything with only miasma which have no cooldown, have great AOE, goest through walls and cheap. On survival from levels 80+ you can build up a lot of damage, same for defence, same for mobile defence, same foe excavation.

its kinda "you cant build up 10000 spores damage there - its trash" argument.

[f3llyn]

On 2018-09-05 at 6:32 PM, Kraythax said:

Go solo in high level content ? Uhh yeah ... first of all not usually possible. Second of all maybe I want to play with others and third of all, why should I be forced to go solo because a frame is STUPIDLY broken. 

Then form your own party. The tools are already in game, it's up to you to use them.

I don't like Limbo and his (her?!?!?) annoying abilities but I'll be damned if I'll ask for them to be nerfed because I find them annoying in pubs.