Elite Onslaught is Pointless Boredom Because of Saryn

[miomima]

7 минут назад, f3llyn сказал:

Then form your own party. The tools are already in game, it's up to you to use them.

I don't like Limbo and his (her?!?!?) annoying abilities but I'll be damned if I'll ask for them to be nerfed because I find them annoying in pubs.

So no feedback from you in beta ehhh? Lets leave anoying frame, lets leave overpowered frame in tha game. Its developer work to tweak the game in a way where it attract more customers, and you dont trying to help them.

[Peter]

18 minutes ago, miomima said:

all of this only true for 3-4 missions, saryn IS tanky, on low level content (all content below sortie) she kills everything with only miasma which have no cooldown, have great AOE, goest through walls and cheap. On survival from levels 80+ you can build up a lot of damage, same for defence, same for mobile defence, same foe excavation.

its kinda "you cant build up 10000 spores damage there - its trash" argument.

What I find is that you just seek someone who agrees with you instead of accepting the truth. Saryn is not OP. Its only good on EOS and grineer exterminate, but if you prefer to build a 100000 spores damage on a spy for example go ahead, but Loki will laugh in your performance.

But you will be penalized for choosing strength rather than utility, the same goes for any other type of mission. Excalibur causes more than 200,000 damage at long range, but will it be better than a volt speed in capture mission? Who chooses nuker in capture mission?

Do you realize how you complain about something unnecessary just because of a single type of mission?

Edited September 8, 2018 by Peter

[DrBorris]

10 minutes ago, miomima said:

all of this only true for 3-4 missions, saryn IS tanky, on low level content (all content below sortie) she kills everything with only miasma which have no cooldown, have great AOE, goest through walls and cheap. On survival from levels 80+ you can build up a lot of damage, same for defence, same for mobile defence, same foe excavation.

its kinda "you cant build up 10000 spores damage there - its trash" argument.

Why wait for Spore damage to build up when I can just shoot the enemy? Or melee them? The only game mode where Saryn really outperforms her own weapons by a large margin is ESO, and that is because of the insane enemy spawns. Like, getting 1000 damage in any game mode outside ESO is quite difficult. And if you are not quickly killing with Spore, why are you not just killing with something else? Unless this is also a nerf post for our general crowd clearing capabilities with our weapons, the potency of Saryn greater than that (using weapons) outside Onslaught is horribly exaggerated.

Still, don't get me wrong, Saryn can be a great DPS in other modes, but her DPS is absolutely nothing like what she does in Onslaught, often coming in under the competition.

And please don't bring low level content in to this, everything is tanky in low levels and other Warframes can clear a room of low level mobs far faster then Saryn (Banshee, Ember, Equinox, Frost, Gara, Nova, Revenant, Volt).

[miomima]

1 минуту назад, Peter сказал:

What I find is that you just seek someone who agrees with you instead of accepting the truth. Saryn is not OP. Its only good on EOS and grineer exterminate, but if you prefer to build a 100000 spores damage on a spy for example go ahead.

But you will be penalized for choosing strength rather than utility, the same goes for any other type of mission. Excalibur causes more than 200,000 damage at long range, but will it be better than a volt speed in capture mission? Who chooses nuker in capture mission?

Do you realize how you complain about something unnecessary just because of a single type of mission?

She is not only "nuker", she is tanky, have speed buff, have stun, have billion damage, and will be honest there litteraly no matter which frame you pick for spy mission.

[Hellmaker2004]

Almost every single frame in this game is overpowered if you look at them in the area they specialize in.

Sadly to many people confuse feelings with facts, and somehow then base there arguments around that.

[Peter]

2 minutes ago, miomima said:

She is not only "nuker", she is tanky, have speed buff, have stun, have billion damage, and will be honest there litteraly no matter which frame you pick for spy mission.

 You need to tank on spy mission? We have something wrong here...

And show me how you can use her speed buff with high strength for the entire mission without need some energy pizzas or energy globes, my volt can cross the entire map with zenurik only without taking damage. 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Peter

[miomima]

2 минуты назад, Peter сказал:

 You need to tank on spy mission? We have something wrong here...

you dont need any frame ability for spy mission, you can do it on atlas, you can do it on any invisible frame, you can do it on any nuke frame, you can do it on any mobile frame, even time gona be pretty similar. There is nothing wrong to bring a tank on Spy mission, you can just run in room ignoring alert.

Edited September 8, 2018 by miomima

[Peter]

4 minutes ago, miomima said:

you dont need any frame ability for spy mission, you can do it on atlas, you can do it on any invisible frame, you can do it on any nuke frame, you can do it on any mobile frame, even time gona be pretty similar. There is nothing wrong to bring a tank on Spy mission, you can just run in room ignoring alert.

 you dont need any frame ability for EOS  mission, you can do it on atlas, you can do it on any invisible frame, you can do it on any nuke frame, you can do it on any mobile frame, even time gona be pretty similar. There is nothing wrong to bring a Saryn on EOS mission, you will do in exactly 2:30 like any other frame.

[miomima]

1 минуту назад, Peter сказал:

 you dont need any frame ability for EOS  mission, you can do it on atlas, you can do it on any invisible frame, you can do it on any nuke frame, you can do it on any mobile frame, even time gona be pretty similar. There is nothing wrong to bring a Saryn on EOS mission, you will do in exactly 2:30 like any other frame.

except with some frames its gona be prety tough to keep efficiency up unlike with saryn, and on spy mission there pretty much everything same for every frame including saryn (wow nyx can mind control one lure or ivara can crawl through lasers 😧 such hard part skip) stahp.

[miomima]

22 минуты назад, Hellmaker2004 сказал:

Almost every single frame in this game is overpowered if you look at them in the area they specialize in.
 

They actualy are, even weakiest based on most people thoughts frames are overpowered, and that is kinda disgusting.

[Peter]

2 minutes ago, miomima said:

except with some frames its gona be prety tough to keep efficiency up unlike with saryn, and on spy mission there pretty much everything same for every frame including saryn (wow nyx can mind control one lure or ivara can crawl through lasers 😧 such hard part skip) stahp.

I still prefer to save my time picking volt speed.

And any frame can do that missions with the right playstyle, isn't a Saryn only feature.

 

[IceColdHawk]

9 hours ago, Buttaface said:

Simply must be trolling given the postcount. 3/10 troll attempt.

What a classic way to avoid my argument. Trolling or not, my point still stands.

[Jalen1104]

Geez "bite-sized" players here to jack up the game and then complain when they run outta content and are on endurance runs (eventually) getting one-shorted with their vitality builds. 

It's a co-op game firstly so trying to have your group weakened is just not a good idea. Second spores don't even kill like that. You can still shoot. What you're actually crying about is that you can't do top damage. So you don't have the biggest number under your name to inflate your fragile ego. Suck it up and get good. I'm tired of this crap entering this game.

[IceColdHawk]

9 hours ago, miomima said:

Because "Bad" frames actualy not bad? lets bring old Ash, Old Ember, Old mag, give full map AOE nuke that kills enemies up to lvl200 to every frame, then game gona be good (not.)

That's not what i said. Mind giving a proper answer to what i've actually said?

17 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Just like everybody with a decent set of weapons and skills. Literally i can go and ruin a newbies day with only using volts 1st and an ignis.

Looks like we forgot about nerfing Volt and Ignis as well. Thanks for the reminder! /s

This all reminds me of League of Legends where some "players" like to write in chat "Mid or feed" because they want to play the carry/damage role and if they don't, they just gonna afk or troll. And here in warframe, you do actually always have the freedom in what you want to play and there's still complaints. I literally don't get this.

Anyway, if i were to argue about broken abilities, i'd argue on how it works on the game itself. Where things like pre-Line of Sight Prism could stun the whole map with just 2 button smashes and for a long duration or the old Saryn just clicking 4 once to kill everything around you. Or current Soundquake (press 4 and afk for interception). Things that trivialize game mechanics or give much power for no effort. The fact that current Spores require time to pile up in damage, while also falling off after no spores are left, and require you to always pop new spores on enemies to keep them spreading goes over the head to some people. And unlike Octavia, who can do so much and still has infinitely scaling damage, Saryn can only DPS. Doesn't clear a group of enemies as quick as Mesa but instead she makes up for it for being able to "weaken" so many enemies at once.

But hey, not everyone is a leecher. Some do actually expect/demand to keep up in kills with using weak/leveling gear, against a DPS setup ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Jalen1104]

On 2018-09-05 at 9:32 PM, Kraythax said:

Go solo in high level content ? Uhh yeah ... first of all not usually possible. Second of all maybe I want to play with others and third of all, why should I be forced to go solo because a frame is STUPIDLY broken. 

This is all just false. Ok your real issue (because saryns one isn't killing enemies like your saying on actual high level content) is that your not getting top damage. I'm starting to wish DE would just hide that number to stop people like you from whining about crap that's not an issue.

This game scales infinitely and I want to keep my team members strong. Why? Because it's a freaking co-op game. Stop trying to weaken the team before you go into the real high-level content. Also everything is solo-able. You should definitely try it.

Edited September 8, 2018 by jalen961

[miomima]

47 минут назад, Peter сказал:

I still prefer to save my time picking volt speed.

And any frame can do that missions with the right playstyle, isn't a Saryn only feature.

 

volt is not realy faster than nyx with menticid, fire walker and arcane consequence.

[seprent]

4 hours ago, Kraythax said:

I don't have a Lanka riven, and If I did, I would be using it. If I had a spare Id give it to my daughter, if I had another spare I would give it to my son who is a US marine and doesn't have time to farm.

aight not needed information and has nothing to do with this i stopped reading after i dont have the riven

4 hours ago, Kraythax said:

People just have to be twits sometimes I guess. 

some people enable them you commenting your getting it is giving them a response they probably wanted 

4 hours ago, Kraythax said:

 And furthermore you might notice the seller is MR13 and I ma MR20. 

pretty sure thats the MR requirement of the riven buddy since looking at the site there is one person on the front page with 5+ listed all different mr ranks or did you forget rivens have a MR rank requirement?

4 hours ago, Kraythax said:

Oh and by the way I am under no obligation to prove anything to you but if I really had one to sell and if I had ever registered at that site and if I had posted the riven, why on earth would I complain about people messaging me.

oh and by the way i am under no obligation to believe you since you just said this is happening with nothing to back it up for all we could know you could be lying this is the internet you seen some S#&$ people complain about/lie about to get people to stop im calling a fault in what your saying. Your accusing people of "harassing" you over a riven you didnt post who probably have no idea of this entire thread and just think your selling a riven and if that much of a problem there is a option to make you appear offline for just such a occasion but instead of using that your complaining about it on the forums going off topic of your own thread feeding the people who probably did it with absolutely zero evidence to back it up so as far as im concerned you could be lying to make people stop jabbing at you since they have a different opinion to you

i dont like accusation with out evidence to back said accusation up 

4 hours ago, Kraythax said:

Game ... Set ... Match ...

check

[felixsylvaris]

You can have decent run with Saryn in survivals like Gabii or Ophelia. But more after 15m. Before spores are in constant decay. However it is your general dps impact with other frames being Nekros and Hydroids.Also having decent run is point of the game and it is more fun to fight enemies not my frame garbage kit.And Gabii/Ophelia are very low level, so you need gas ignis most.

I am against rapid nerfs before Fortuna/Railjack since new game modes could  be more suited for different frames (probably mobility frames, or Volt/Mag).

My only concern is how high i can go with Spores damage, like 3k (in ESO) with only 170%AP, and there are 3 spores. Yes, spores are clunky, has warm up timer, and you need to babysit them, and recast them here and there, possibly combo with miasma or toxic lash, so it is more like fancy aura.

Corrosive proc is good against grineer and that is it, other status effects are offen more universal (radiation, blast, fire, electro, slash) So nothing special.

But lets compare Spores with some big aoe dots, auras, or fields of destruction. Take in mind that we can have AP from 100% to 400%, i am using just base value, so multiply it by x2 common or x4 focused

Ember World of Fire 800 fire but only 5 targets, and 7.5m range

Oberon Hallowed Ground 100 radiation, 15m arch

Banshee Soundquake 200 Blast 20m but roots banshee during channel

CHroma Effigy 2000 elements/s but has drain and i suppose LOS (not  chroma player, probably there is a catch)

Hydroid Tentacle swams 200 True (yay) /s 15m 20s duration CC

Maybe there are some other noticable auras or aoe/duration. There is also Octavia which is god tier who nobody uses, almost like players do not care what is OP, but what suits content they run most, who could imagine that.

It is possible that having 200 dmg/s aoe right now with some cc is more valuable than wind up for 10sec and no cc.

nevertheless it is clear that Spore should deal max damage base 200 per spore. And you can ahve 3 spores. So 600 base, which is good, but you need to babysit and it has warmup and decay. With 200%AP that is 1200corrosive/s with 400%AP 2400 corrosive/sec.

Running with 400% requires some sacrifizes and it is not common.

Lowering max spore damage will affect Saryns in normal missions, since saryn dont run normal missions much, (and you dont reach 3k so often).

On the other hand it is possible to buff Toxic Lash to 50%/100%.

It is also possible to slow decay by removing 20% initial cut.

It is beneficial to cut Saryn a little, so nerf community could move to Volt, Equinox, Mesa, Excalibur and bother someone else.

Edited September 8, 2018 by felixsylvaris

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, IceColdHawk said:

The fact that current Spores require time to pile up in damage, while also falling off after no spores are left, and require you to always pop new spores on enemies to keep them spreading goes over the head to some people

QFT

Comparing spores to Banshees current augmented 4 you have much more things to do, looking at the damage count, casting in the biggest group, checking if anything is in range for spreading and soo on.

If this is called afk gameplay or lazy gameplay than we migh aswell nerf all guns because all they need is to aim with a mouse and press m1.

[Sahansral]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb IceColdHawk:

And this is a bad thing?

Yes, because if a frame spoils the fun for others AND is numerous, you can't really avoid it, like Limbo who was played very rarely in groups before his rework.

 

[IceColdHawk]

17 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

Yes, because if a frame spoils the fun for others AND is numerous, you can't really avoid it, like Limbo who was played very rarely in groups before his rework.

Wanna know what ACTUALLY spoils fun? Onslaught itself. Not Saryn. Onslaught is literally the only game mode to punish you REALLY hard, should you not opt for quick killing methods. Survival has so much more tolerance actually. Also, due to the endlessly spawning nature of Onslaught, the drawback of Spores decaying won't be occuring too much compared to everywhere else.

It's especially funny because the forums were full of "You nerfed Saryn to death!" posts after Pablos rework. And even better, she already got nerfed again due to Spores being able to spread themself upon killing enemies was way too afk-able and silly (which i can agree with). But after people realized Onslaught, she suddenly became "OP"? How? In fact, should she get whatever nerf the devs could be implementing that makes her not be the DPS of choice anymore, people will flock to the next best DPS method and "spoil peoples fun". And that even more so in Onslaught because as i said, this game mode screams to have it's enemies spamkilled. Efficiency is way too merciless.

Regardless of that, if you are in the position to say "With a saryn in my team, i'm not able to contribute to anything" then it's more your fault. Saryn doesn't nuke the whole map away unlike previously nerfed abilities. I've explained why and how in multiple posts before. Especially against infested she doesn't shine all too much. And if a frame, dedicated to only DPS is having the most damage done against non DPS frames, it only means that things are working as intended.

Edited September 8, 2018 by IceColdHawk

[Sahansral]

vor 28 Minuten schrieb IceColdHawk:

Wanna know what ACTUALLY spoils fun? Onslaught itself. Not Saryn. Onslaught is literally the only game mode to punish you REALLY hard, should you not opt for quick killing methods. Survival has so much more tolerance actually. Also, due to the endlessly spawning nature of Onslaught, the drawback of Spores decaying won't be occuring too much compared to everywhere else.

It's especially funny because the forums were full of "You nerfed Saryn to death!" posts after Pablos rework. And even better, she already got nerfed again due to Spores being able to spread themself upon killing enemies was way too afk-able and silly (which i can agree with). But after people realized Onslaught, she suddenly became "OP"? How? In fact, should she get whatever nerf the devs could be implementing that makes her not be the DPS of choice anymore, people will flock to the next best DPS method and "spoil peoples fun". And that even more so in Onslaught because as i said, this game mode screams to have it's enemies spamkilled. Efficiency is way too merciless.

Regardless of that, if you are in the position to say "With a saryn in my team, i'm not able to contribute to anything" then it's more your fault. Saryn doesn't nuke the whole map away unlike previously nerfed abilities. I've explained why and how in multiple posts before. Especially against infested she doesn't shine all too much. And if a frame, dedicated to only DPS is having the most damage done against non DPS frames, it only means that things are working as intended.

Onslaught is far from perfect. Everyone can see this.

And despite what every defending the current Saryn seems to think people can pretty good evaluate her impact on her game - gasp -  by playing her.

If I choose Saryn in any stationary mission (not just Onslaught) with a medium to small map I can easily prevent others from interacting with enemies by dissolving them before anyone can even see them.

If I choose to play non-Saryn I'm on the receiving end. MY SKILLZ didn't change, my ability to orchestrate weapons and abilities didn't change. With the choice I can determine who will have fun in the next mission.

We had that before with

* miraslor before rework of simulor

* Nova before the rework (M Prime)

* mesa before the rework (peacemaker)

* ember before her rework (wof)

* banshee before her rework

* ash before his rework

* limbo before his rework (scaling nuke build)

* bonus: trinity selfdamage build

See a trend? Each and every time the exactly same arguments were made to defend these frames. And each and every time DE reacted.

Saryn is even worse. Her damage scales, she spreads two of the best emental combos around the map, making enemy armor scaling obsolete, halfing HP, doesn't need LOS and has good EHP herself.

I've yet too see a good point why Saryn should be allowed to exist in her current form when DE made pretty obvious where they draw the line.

 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Sahansral

[XaoGarrent]

On 2018-09-05 at 9:30 PM, (PS4)aiptekfanboy said:

Max range rhino stomp  get gud

 

This really demonstrates the futility of this kind of "nerf x" thread in a roundabout way. It lacks awareness of the greater game. It has no cohesive vision. It's ignorant and directionless.

Did you know you can literally AFK farm interception with one or two Rhinos running a world stomp build? Not a lot of people do know that, despite the fact it's actually super on meta right now given where the vaulted relics are to be had.

Everyone knows Saryn, though. And so we gripe about Saryn, and not Rhino, who can basically stop anything from happening whatsoever over long periods of time.

So we nerf Saryn into trash, specifically because of ESO, trigger another Vivergate, piss off a large portion of people who've been playing her since before the recent changes, causing them to crush their hipster glasses in anger... ...And then what? Oh, now Equinox is the problem. Okay, we nerf equinox too. In fact, let's nerf everyone who can do buckets of damage, Mesa and Volt are next on the butcher's block.

Well guess what, now now we have to finally talk about Rhino. We killed all the high damage frames, so now everyone's playing crowd control and tanks. Diversity of frames is now in the toilet, so yeah, let's nerf him and a bunch of other crap, surely that'll fix the problem. Rhino's first since he also does good damage and right now there's nothing else that looks like a nail to the man with the hammer. Y'know, come to think of it, that's not quite right: Atlas plays a bit like Memeing Strike, and even if he can't bring an entire map to a halt with an alternate build, anything that looks like memeing strike must obviously be satan incarnate, so let's go ahead and trash his 1. He's really tanky too, let's nerf his rubble gain.

Oops, we accidentally nerfed Ivara! Turns out she can do the exact same thing as Rhino by camping whatever point that bottlenecks with a high range build, forcing people to keep going over to her point and killing all the enemies she's put to sleep. Because DEAR GOD someone has to WALK ACROSS THE MAP! What a TRAVESTY! Equinox gets hit again as collateral, this time before people even realize they can also do this and thus cause the frame to become meta again. This of course kills the classic focus farm, because now three of the frames that are good at it have been dumpstered.

And what happens after that? Oh right, we now have to nerf Vauban. "VAUBAN YOU SAY!?" Yes, Vauban. What do you think is going to be next after you take an axe to anything that can deal lots of damage? We're already nerfing crowd control because it's been FotM, and once all the good frames have been "balanced" guess what's left? The inflexible specialists.

Oh, well, would you look at that. People are just ignoring their frames and leaning on their guns now? Mein gott, how dare people find fun after we trashed their precious warframes! Better nerf all the guns. Airsoft for everyone!

Also, we nerf Trinity, just for tradition's sake.

[Andaius]

18 hours ago, miomima said:

You forgot one thing, spores is not suposed to be her nuke. Her full map nuke is miasma, on low level content you dont even need to cast spores, just press 4, miasma have huge range, miasma halves all enemies hp which effectively doubles all the miasma damage, miasma have no animation, miasma work through walls, miasma is cheap ability (especialy with EE builds). And we end up with frame that kills all low level content (except nullifiers) just by pressing 4 from time to time, and kills all enemies in high (and over) level content by spores with miasma without using gun on mission outside spreading spores.

And how we talk before woth someone - she dont even supost to be a nuker frame and belongs to melee frames with all awesome stats she have.

Same with any other AoE skill or weapon on low level stuff. Hell even up to mid-high level stuff! Spore is her DoT AoE skill, and thats exactly what it does.

[Hellmaker2004]

6 hours ago, felixsylvaris said:

Ember World of Fire 800 fire but only 5 targets, and 7.5m range

Ember deals scaling damage from 400 up to 800 damage at base power strenght.
And her range get downscaled from 15m to 7.5m at base power range.
And the amount of foes are indeed 5, or to be more precise up to five targeted foes. They have a small aoe so in theory they can hit more foes. 

So far you have been correct even if you forgot to potray some information about her. But you also forgot to add in she has a 35% chance to apply Burn at base strenght value. Now to calculate that we could say each pillar deal 35%  of a heat damage proc. So in reality each explosion will deal at base strenght

Start, none scaled WoF
400 direct heat damage and then a additional 490 damage over 6 seconds. For a total of 890 Damage.

End, fully scaled WoF
800 direct heat damage and then a additional 980 damage over 6 seconds for a total of 1780 Damage.

 

Now as you ger more power strenght not only will you increase the direct heat damage but also the proc chance. This mean she have a very rewarding curve at the start of inputing Power strenght until she reaches 100/0.35 = 285.714285714% power strenght after that her scaling will no longer influence proc chance and it will start to drop off slightly.

The reason this is important is that when you add this together she does not scale like a lot of other frames to show this we can simply input this at 200% Power Strenght, you would assume she would only deal double her damage. However since she have two aspect influenced by power strenght it actualy goes a lot faster, now to make it easy we will use max duration stacked WoF.

(((X/2)*Y)*7) + X = 

 

Both X and Y are effected by Power strenght, the only difference is what base value they have, and at 100% Power strenght they are
X= 800
Y= 0.35
(((800/2)*0.35)*7) + 800 = 1780 heat damage, 800 on impact and then a additional 980 over 6 seconds.

However if we start to add in power strenght we can easily see that she does not simply double her own damage by having lets say 200% Power strenght, this is due to the fact she has two aspect scaling from it.
 

X=1600
Y=0.70
(((1600/2)*0.70)*7) + 1600 = 5520 heat damage, 1600 on impact and then a additional 3920 over 6 seconds.

 

Now the proc, or Y will have a cap. At 100% or in the above mentioned case a value of 1. I t will no longer go any higher so she will start to scale a bit slower once you reach 285.714285714% Power Strenght.

 

However this is something i can understand being missed / overlooked as damage over time effects only reach there full potential if a target stay alive for enough time.
However what i can not really overlook is that you use Ember, a frame that is entirely designed around her number two ability, and using her unmodified values as a argument.

For everyone unaware Embers number two ability is accelerant. It is simply at a unmodded frame, a 20m AoE that stun foes with the same duration ( skeletal animation ) that Miasma uses, but more importantly apply the accelerant debuff causing those foe to suffer a 2.5 Multiplier on all fire damage taken. And this is how Ember gets her main source of damage.

This changed WoF from above numbers to.

((((X/2)*Y)*7) + X) * Z = 
And at base values we have.
X=800
Y=0.35
Z=2.5
((((800/2)*0.35)*7) + 800) *2.5 = 4450 heat damage, 2000 damage on impact and then a additional 2450 over 6 seconds. 

However to truley see how this all come together we will have to add more power strenght. At 200% Power Strenght we get.
((((X/2)*Y)*7) + X) * Z = 
And at with the new values of.
X=1600
Y=0.70
Z=5.0
((((1600/2)*0.70)*7) + 1600) *5 = 27600 heat damage, 8000 damage on impact and then a additional 19600 over 6 seconds.

 

And i think we can conclude that Ember deals a bit more damage than 800 at this point. Even at base 100% Strenght.

There is also a small disclaimer i need to add in. I am unaware if the heat proc double dip on Accelerant, as in the proc gets higher due to accelerant increasing the initial damage, and then boosting the actual damage over time as well.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Hellmaker2004
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