Let's Talk: Content Drought - What DE can learn from this

[Kyoresh]

1 minute ago, Padre_Akais said:

bugs to be addressed more

really?

Sanctuary Onslaught still destroyed groups

Eidolons still teleport randomly

Uranus Operator Camera Bug is still present

Amps instantly recharging is still happening

etc.

2 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

ecause short of cosmetics, weapon releases

this was most of the stuff that was released this year and it it not playable content 

 

3 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Tactical Alerts and Events

would have been a cheap but working solution to the drought. even if it wasnt new content, it still would have been different content from the daily grind.

[(PSN)TheRallykiller]

3 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

If you are in a desert...You aren't experiencing a drought.

DE has apologized for content slowdowns numerous times over the years...That doesn't make this time special Bud.

..It just means someone whined especially loudly.

Welcome to Warframe?

If you want to have your cake and eat it too...You need to be prepared to pay for two cakes.

Are you prepared to pay for that?

DE's unprecedented growth, success, and attention (from industry, press, and fans) challenges the dev team and the community to evolve their attitudes and perspectives with the game.

Warframe isn't stuck in a time warp.  DE isn't a garage studio anymore. 

Content slowdown/droughts become harder to just "gee shucks" away like some video game 'Mr. Smith Goes To Washington' making their first game to a small niche community.

With increased aspirations from DE and Leyou come increased expectations from this not-so-small studio and this community of millions.

It's not about Fortuna, it's about the next 4 "Fortunas", the next 10 warframes, and the next 20 micro-content updates.

Engaged players = active users = $$$ = more DE and more Warframe

[PakkiTheDog]

Double posted apparently. Weird.

Edited October 8, 2018 by PakkiTheDog

[Rakosta_Kai]

5 minutes ago, PakkiTheDog said:

It's a metaphor, not being taken literally. I meant that if in a long period of time we get a handful of hours of content that doesn't make the content drought end.

Yes...I gave you a different, and just as apt, metaphor to deal with.

What you meant is an accurate description for what the release cycle of this game has been for years now.

...What I meant is that you should be used to it already.

9 minutes ago, PakkiTheDog said:

Never to this extend, the'v acknowledged this year being especially lacking of content, and if you read my whole post, not only parts you liked you'd see an example, so don't be stubborn. 

I read you whole post and asked a simple question:

They apologize for release delays yearly, I don't see this year as being special...Why do you think this apology is special? 

12 minutes ago, PakkiTheDog said:

It was a joke, loosen up a bit m8.

I felt it was a simple question... If you want to have your cake and eat it too, you need to buy two cakes...Are you prepared to pay for them?

Are you prepared to get what you want in this game (expansion) by plugging significant piles of money into it?

Because I guarantee you if everyone in the game were paying $10 bucks a month to play it, DE would happily give you just what you asked for.

Please don't think me angry, bashing players, or even defending DE because none of these things are true.

...I merely responded to your comments directly.

 

[Rakosta_Kai]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRallykiller said:

DE's unprecedented growth, success, and attention (from industry, press, and fans) challenges the dev team and the community to evolve their attitudes and perspectives with the game.

Warframe isn't stuck in a time warp.  DE isn't a garage studio anymore. 

DE was a triple A developer when Warframe released... So let's kindly can that tripe.

29 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRallykiller said:

Content slowdown/droughts become harder to just "gee shucks" away like some video game 'Mr. Smith Goes To Washington' making their first game to a small niche community.

Not really...The game is still F2P.

We get stuff when they get it to us... And if we don't like it, we go play other things until they do...Same as with any other F2P game.

30 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRallykiller said:

With increased aspirations from DE and Leyou come increased expectations from this not-so-small studio and this community of millions.

 Do tell?

I'm very interested in this...What are those aspirations exactly? What goals did Leyou make for DE regarding content releases, revenue year over year expectations per revenue stream, new accounts, concurrent plays/time, and buys per player?

I'd love to know and you seem eager to educate... So do, please, tell us.

45 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRallykiller said:

It's not about Fortuna, it's about the next 4 "Fortunas", the next 10 warframes, and the next 20 micro-content updates.

Engaged players = active users = $$$ = more DE and more Warframe

Golly, I'm so confused about that... I mean how does a studio that hasn't done any significant hiring for their flagship game actually manage to significantly expand it?

...You seem to have an actual answer to this so please share.

[Handsome_Jas]

En 3/10/2018 a las 6:45, Syln dijo:

Content Drought is a great thing ! You can take a break, play something else and comeback !

I just can't believe what I just read lmfao, you can play something else even if there is content. 
The game needs consistent content to survive and a content drought for this kind of game will NEVER be good, what are you even talking about?

Syln, that was the most hillarious comment I've ever read in my entire life!

[LupisV0lk]

Content in any form takes time and time is something the community is apparently unwilling to give DE.

[CaptainMinty]

Warframe has suffered many content droughts over its development life. This is true, and I bet if you looked at the numbers of daily players over the years, you could pick out major updates based on the player count spikes. We often complain about these droughts and how they're destructive to the game. I'd like to say they do not fully damage the game. This would be a very pressing problem if the gameplay Warframe offers was rather needy and needs the constant updates to keep it alive, but I believe that Warframe is capable of holding its own based on its foundation. The feel of playing Warframe is incredible, the player holding an amazing amount of power and versatility. Combined with the sheer magnitude of weapons and Warframes we have, it's enticing to keep playing, even if you have everything. These droughts aren't as bad as they would seem because the game on its own is very enjoyable. 

That being said, a lot of people have the attention span of a brick. Thusly the drought per say is terrible because we as players don't want to wait for new things. We want more because we're having fun. Understandable. I'm sitting here with a Hershey's bar of chocolate. Each piece I eat makes me want another piece because chocolate is good and tastes good. Warframe is fun and we want more Warframe. Makes sense. 

BUT! The most important thing I'd like to put out there about Warframe is that Warframe has NO DLC. Absolutely nothing. From download to the end of our content we do not have to make a single purchase whatsoever. Warframe is free, and there's no separation of community because of one player owning a DLC that another doesn't. Every update is given to us for free. No paywall involved. It's very rare to have that come from any developer. The community will not be broken because DE released Fortuna and said that we need to put 10 bucks into the game to play it, it'll be free for us all to enjoy. I saw someone say they should implement something like Fortnite's battle pass into warframe. I wholeheartedly hate the battle pass system. It creates a pseudo-obligation for a player to play that specific game to get a time based reward that they paid money for. In Warframe, you can get everything that the game has to offer, at no cost other than time. (Barring a few exclusive items like Excal Prime and some cosmetics) And when you put money into Warframe, you get exactly what you spend your money on. 

The content drought isn't as bad as one thinks. Sometimes the drought is the price to pay for quality content. I'd rather wait for the cherry to garnish my sundae than dig into it early and be dissatisfied because it wasn't as good. It's hard to praise a developer on something that isn't out yet that has absorbed so much development life. Who knows how much Fortuna has to offer in story? How much more it adds to Warframe? It's impossible to tell how much Fortuna adds until it comes out, and whether or not the community as a whole will love it. I would prefer to wait than receive an unpolished product. If it comes out bad, it's forever bad. And nobody wants that for Warframe. 

[Tsardova]

2 minutes ago, CaptainMinty said:

Warframe has suffered many content droughts over its development life. This is true, and I bet if you looked at the numbers of daily players over the years, you could pick out major updates based on the player count spikes. We often complain about these droughts and how they're destructive to the game. I'd like to say they do not fully damage the game. This would be a very pressing problem if the gameplay Warframe offers was rather needy and needs the constant updates to keep it alive, but I believe that Warframe is capable of holding its own based on its foundation. The feel of playing Warframe is incredible, the player holding an amazing amount of power and versatility. Combined with the sheer magnitude of weapons and Warframes we have, it's enticing to keep playing, even if you have everything. These droughts aren't as bad as they would seem because the game on its own is very enjoyable. 

That being said, a lot of people have the attention span of a brick. Thusly the drought per say is terrible because we as players don't want to wait for new things. We want more because we're having fun. Understandable. I'm sitting here with a Hershey's bar of chocolate. Each piece I eat makes me want another piece because chocolate is good and tastes good. Warframe is fun and we want more Warframe. Makes sense. 

BUT! The most important thing I'd like to put out there about Warframe is that Warframe has NO DLC. Absolutely nothing. From download to the end of our content we do not have to make a single purchase whatsoever. Warframe is free, and there's no separation of community because of one player owning a DLC that another doesn't. Every update is given to us for free. No paywall involved. It's very rare to have that come from any developer. The community will not be broken because DE released Fortuna and said that we need to put 10 bucks into the game to play it, it'll be free for us all to enjoy. I saw someone say they should implement something like Fortnite's battle pass into warframe. I wholeheartedly hate the battle pass system. It creates a pseudo-obligation for a player to play that specific game to get a time based reward that they paid money for. In Warframe, you can get everything that the game has to offer, at no cost other than time. (Barring a few exclusive items like Excal Prime and some cosmetics) And when you put money into Warframe, you get exactly what you spend your money on. 

The content drought isn't as bad as one thinks. Sometimes the drought is the price to pay for quality content. I'd rather wait for the cherry to garnish my sundae than dig into it early and be dissatisfied because it wasn't as good. It's hard to praise a developer on something that isn't out yet that has absorbed so much development life. Who knows how much Fortuna has to offer in story? How much more it adds to Warframe? It's impossible to tell how much Fortuna adds until it comes out, and whether or not the community as a whole will love it. I would prefer to wait than receive an unpolished product. If it comes out bad, it's forever bad. And nobody wants that for Warframe. 

Dude.... you're screeching what everybody else already knows in regards to f2p games.

And WF does have "dlc" in the form of starter packs, etc available through channels like green man gaming, and the like. It's no different than Terra or other mmo's "packs", just cause it's far less predatory doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Quality is subjective, 2nd dream was great but delays on war within culminated to an experience most consider to be less than 2nd dream while some preached it's like some kinda 2nd coming of baby jesus. So no, content drought doesn't directly translate to quality content.

[seprent]

9 hours ago, Nitro747 said:

Also, I'm not even beginning on how DE literally REMOVED content from the game this year when they killed Raids. NO ONE asked for it. It wasn't necessary and they did that only to boost the "popularity" of their uninspired tridolon hunt. It's pretty fun, but the 2 """"new"""" Eidolons are literally identical to the first one except the size and color scheme, just like the Hemocyte.

Plus: it was the ONLY game mode that actually required team work, allowed for more than 4 players to play, required at least 3 working neurons to play, etc.

 funny only to boost popularity you say hmm lets see 

trials broke or got a new bug almost every time it got a update and shown to be too much maintenance to fix every single major patch that just bounced from one game breaker to another and new and old bugs came when bugs were fixed and from what they wanted trials to be so they discontinued it so eventually they can remake it since it was becoming more aged and showed it compared to normal game play ill post the forum post about in a spoiler  

Spoiler

 

 

NB4 called DE white knight fanboy for pointing out actual reason

[(PSN)OmegaSlayer]

I completed Pyrrus project in less than 30 minutes; sure, I had to wait the foundry build times,but gameplay wise it was less than 30 minutes, because it was 8 times 5 waves on Helene, that with a Speedva and other heavy AoE frames take around 3 minutes and I do the Simaris Dailies on a constant basis, so no big difference.

My current Warframe day is: Log-in, check alerts for Revenant Vania helmet (nothing), pick and do a Simaris daily, take Forma from the Foundry, using it to min-max a build, do Invasions/fissures/ESO/Kuva to level up, switch off, log in when Sortie resets, do sortie, unveil eventual riven (10% of the time)

At 797 days of play there's not much I can do anymore, except finishing min-maxing, finish levelling up some Primed Mods AND Conclave, which I tried, to get all the stuff there, but it's totally unrewading...either standings should be acquirable faster or match should be shorter or prices of stuff should go down, especially for mods.

I tried decorate the Dojo, but it's a pain, because the controls to do it require Buddhist Monk's patience (props to all you amazing architects out there)

On console it's even worse because the updates comes very diluted in time, we know already what we need so we can farm in advance and so on.

DE could have released some reinforcement here and there at least (there's the Cadus o staff for example, a weapon that the Trinity specters has but it's not available to players...it's in game already, release it), alerts here and there...put a story mode with the old events that new players didn't experience.

My main gripe is that even with a drought like this, DE left a lot of things in the air.

A story mode that ties all the lore up, unfinished passes of PBR, halfassed UI, neglected modes like Conclave, Lunaro and Frame Fighter (all 3 could have potential)

Back to Conclave, Lunaro, Frame Fighter...many says: "Warframe is PvE, doesn't need PvP" and I agree to a certain degree, because I dislike PvP, but I can't deny than in a basin of 40 millions registered losers, no on likes PvP, if I don't like it, it doesn't mean that others won't enjoy it.

Then there's the Kingpin system that if done well could suck up a good amount of play time.

Invasions could be reworked like the Kuva Asssault mode, give new drops and made less obnoxious (repeat 3 times the same mission, come on) and be relevant

There's loads DE could have, maybe even slowing down Fortuna development a bit but breathing new air into other stuff.

But they had overshown Fortuna creating insane hype, an hype that in my case was levelled to 0 after Rebecca spent 40 minutes looking for poop.

I really appreciate Warframe, and what DE is doing, but I'm not blind and I feel honest and fair if I say that DE planned this year and partially last one, very very badly, the same Steve said it 3 or 4 devstreams ago.

I hope these missteps will lead to something good.

[whoshotya1978]

I thought Warframe was a game based on what the community opinions were to make the game great.

Feedback is what kept this game going and what has it where it's at now so those who are belittling and talkin down on other users for saying there's a content drought and asking for new content and different aspects of the game really need to take a long look at yourself and ask why not doesn't DE doesn't Steve ask for us to put out input

Edited October 8, 2018 by whoshotya1978
Misspell words

[FlusteredFerret]

4 hours ago, whoshotya1978 said:

I thought Warframe was a game based on what the community opinions were to make the game great.

Feedback is what kept this game going and what has it where it's at now so those who are belittling and talkin down on other users for saying there's a content drought and asking for new content and different aspects of the game really need to take a long look at yourself and ask why not doesn't DE doesn't Steve ask for us to put out input

You've been sadly misinformed. Warframe is the vision and game the developers want to make, with a fair chunk of it based on an older game that didn't quite come to fruition.

Just because the developers maintain frequent contact with the player base and take feedback on board, doesn't mean they are going to do absolutely everything the community wants...or when they want it.

I'm not sure what you mean by your last point. Are you saying DE should start accepting ideas from the player base and incorporating them into the game, or are you saying they should start recruiting people with development experience onto their staff?

Either way - never gonna happen. For numerous reasons, some of which we can only guess at...but the two primary ones are:

1. Everyone on this forum has a different idea about what they want from the game. Start taking all our ideas on board and the game will quickly dissolve into a unbalanced, incomprehensible, nightmarish mess.

2. This would create a massive backlog of work that would take years to complete and the whining about content drought would only get louder.

3. We don't know whether DE have the finances to take on more staff. I would tend to agree they should expand their studio, if they are able to...but its not my decision to make and I respect that. I'm not about to start stamping my feet, waving my fists and hurling insults because they have the audacity to NOT do what I want.

 

[(PSN)purpleskullgamin]

2 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

. We don't know whether DE have the finances to take on more staff. I would tend to agree they should expand their studio, if they are able to...but its not my decision to make and I respect that. I'm not about to start stamping my feet, waving my fists and hurling insults because they have the audacity to NOT do what I want.

We practically buy a new triple a title every three months in the form of prime accessories. Deluxe versions if you buy the access. I know development costs alot but if they don't have atleast a a little more to spend on a couple new staff or something I'd be surprised.

[Tsardova]

58 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

You've been sadly misinformed. Warframe is the vision and game the developers want to make, with a fair chunk of it based on an older game that didn't quite come to fruition.

Just because the developers maintain frequent contact with the player base and take feedback on board, doesn't mean they are going to do absolutely everything the community wants...or when they want it.

I'm not sure what you mean by your last point. Are you saying DE should start accepting ideas from the player base and incorporating them into the game, or are you saying they should start recruiting people with development experience onto their staff?

Either way - never gonna happen. For numerous reasons, some of which we can only guess at...but the two primary ones are:

1. Everyone on this forum has a different idea about what they want from the game. Start taking all our ideas on board and the game will quickly dissolve into a unbalanced, incomprehensible, nightmarish mess.

2. This would create a massive backlog of work that would take years to complete and the whining about content drought would only get louder.

3. We don't know whether DE have the finances to take on more staff. I would tend to agree they should expand their studio, if they are able to...but its not my decision to make and I respect that. I'm not about to start stamping my feet, waving my fists and hurling insults because they have the audacity to NOT do what I want.

 

.... That's not exactly adding to DE's defense there mate... If anything that made me recount the whole vivergate thing.

1. The game ALREADY IS an unbalanced mess.... other frames sorely needed a rework but nope, Saryn gets botox treatment for her 1 and she still wipes SO. Even without community's "REEEEE", DE's priorities have been a bit shaky this year compared to prior years.

2. As above, kinda speaks on how DE's priorities are lookin atm no?

3. Considering the boost of players they got from PoE and the potential whales from it? I doubt hiring a staff or two is gonna set them back THAT badly to the point where they can only get by by the skin of their teeth.

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, (PS4)purpleskullgamin said:

We practically buy a new triple a title every three months in the form of prime accessories. Deluxe versions if you buy the access. I know development costs alot but if they don't have atleast a a little more to spend on a couple new staff or something I'd be surprised.

Warframe is a Digital Extremes game and Digital Extremes is owned by Leyou which is publicly traded.

Warframe is certainly doing great...But we don't know how much of the revenue they are generating goes directly back into the game, into funding new enterprises, or into developing new games.

Steve seems to have left the door open for discussion on what the community wants though so that's a good thing.

[(PSN)OmegaSlayer]

I didn't wanted to enter the debate about employing other people.

I think expanding the staff would help a lot, I think even getting external help, like from Tennogen creators to finish PBR stuff passes would be ideal, with a paid for item contract; I was browsing items to purchas with a 60% discount and loads of cosmetic stuff was still waiting PBR...and has a full price, so...pay for a neglected item feels...well at least it feels wrong.

Where I want to defend DE is that I believe that they try to work ethically and they don't want to hire if they're not sure those people will be employed for a loooong time and not be victims of cuts, and, just knowing the story of DE can pretty much confirm this.

[(PSN)TheRallykiller]

13 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

DE was a triple A developer when Warframe released... So let's kindly can that tripe.

Not really...The game is still F2P.

We get stuff when they get it to us... And if we don't like it, we go play other things until they do...Same as with any other F2P game.

 Do tell?

I'm very interested in this...What are those aspirations exactly? What goals did Leyou make for DE regarding content releases, revenue year over year expectations per revenue stream, new accounts, concurrent plays/time, and buys per player?

I'd love to know and you seem eager to educate... So do, please, tell us.

Golly, I'm so confused about that... I mean how does a studio that hasn't done any significant hiring for their flagship game actually manage to significantly expand it?

...You seem to have an actual answer to this so please share.

Your post count is a badge of honor indirectly displaying your passion for the game and involvement in its community, but what's with the vitriolic tone dressed in upbeat sarcasm?

One thing I love about this community is the generally conversational tone *I feel* the vast majority of fans seem to have with one another regardless of topic...

And I think you're the perfect person to have as a part of the larger discussion on "content droughts" and everything else that goes with it given your purported knowledge familiarity with the subject...

But man Tenno, why not err on the side of being constructive/inquisitive.

 

[PR0JAX]

This thread has been a fascinating rollercoaster to watch (and I've been guilty of going along for a ride).  I think most of us have legitimate points to make, but are talking past each other.

Do you guys think a monthly poll or something would help by giving DE more info on feature requests/concerns?

 

For example:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What features do you want to see most in Warframe next?

• Open World
• Revisit Game modes
• Bugfixes
• Etc.

What kind of player do you consider yourself?

New / Experienced / Veteran

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[(PSN)purpleskullgamin]

20 minutes ago, PR0JAX said:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What features do you want to see most in Warframe next?

• Open World
• Revisit Game modes
• Bugfixes
• Etc.

What kind of player do you consider yourself?

New / Experienced / Veteran

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Revisit game modes.

Experienced.

 

[(PSN)purpleskullgamin]

59 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRallykiller said:

Your post count is a badge of honor indirectly displaying your passion for the game and involvement in its community, but what's with the vitriolic tone dressed in upbeat sarcasm?

One thing I love about this community is the generally conversational tone *I feel* the vast majority of fans seem to have with one another regardless of topic...

And I think you're the perfect person to have as a part of the larger discussion on "content droughts" and everything else that goes with it given your purported knowledge familiarity with the subject...

But man Tenno, why not err on the side of being constructive/inquisitive.

 

I'm assuming you're new to the game?

[PR0JAX]

Ignore Double Post.

Edited October 8, 2018 by PR0JAX

[CoolDudeMcCool]

25 minutes ago, PR0JAX said:

This thread has been a fascinating rollercoaster to watch (and I've been guilty of going along for a ride).  I think most of us have legitimate points to make, but are talking past each other.

Do you guys think a monthly poll or something would help by giving DE more info on feature requests/concerns?

 

For example:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What features do you want to see most in Warframe next?

• Open World
• Revisit Game modes
• Bugfixes
• Etc.

What kind of player do you consider yourself?

New / Experienced / Veteran

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If DE makes a poll and hands out the numbers for results, it'll be chaos. Then it's not "We the community want this!", it's "The majority asked for this and you didn't do it, you don't listen to your community!" They'd have to keep the poll results private.

[(PSN)purpleskullgamin]

1 minute ago, CoolDudeMcCool said:

If DE makes a poll and hands out the numbers for results, it'll be chaos. Then it's not "We the community want this!", it's "The majority asked for this and you didn't do it, you don't listen to your community!" They'd have to keep the poll results private.

I'd be alright with that actually, at least they have a better idea of what we want.

So rather than having to go to every little place there's a direct area where what's most desired is.

[PR0JAX]

6 minutes ago, CoolDudeMcCool said:

If DE makes a poll and hands out the numbers for results, it'll be chaos. Then it's not "We the community want this!", it's "The majority asked for this and you didn't do it, you don't listen to your community!" They'd have to keep the poll results private.

That's fine if they want to do that.  Keep it private, I mean.  Could even have a write in/"other" section if none of the above were applicable.  Whatever makes a better game and gives DE info on what they could prioritize if they need it.

I'd be super curious if all of the rhetoric matches the results though, haha.

Edited October 8, 2018 by PR0JAX