bring back nezha's healing pulse!

[(PSN)awsomegamerLA1]

5 minutes ago, Borg1611 said:

 

I think a healing pulse with a wider radius would have an advantage in being able to heal things that can't pick up health orbs (like a defense target), but people primarily like health orbs because they pair it with the health conversion mod. Since Nezha can drop so many orbs, it's easy to constantly maintain 3 stacks for a lot of armor (which is a type of defense that pairs with the 90% DR of halo). If you can only have one thing, people prefer the armor from the orbs I guess, though it's probably more of a selfish choice since not everyone in a group will have orb related mods. There's also the fact that it now helps provide a group with more energy, which was something he didn't have before at all. 

90% damage reduction isn't necessarily "better" when it comes to not dying, but 90% damage reduction allows you to take advantage of rage style mods since you still take some damage. He also has equilibrium as an option for energy, but that also requires you not be at full health in order to be able to use the orbs for energy. People who have arcane energize probably wouldn't care about either of those things, but a lot of people don't. Being 90% instead of an ironskin clone gives him more build options and choices. When they changed it to 90% they added the immunity at the end thing so that you can re-cast before you take damage again. They probably wouldn't have done that if they had left it as an Ironskin style effect.

As I said above, I think the safeguard augment should be baseline and just be 100% effectiveness instead of 50%. Nezha's ability to defend others with halo is inferior to Gara's 2, which doesn't require an augment and has no health limit. Nezha definitely isn't perfect and has room for improvement, I think the best areas for improvement are more in changing halo to have safeguard baseline and possibly buffing fire walker so it provides more group utility when people run through it rather than going back to healing pulses. I also wish Chakram had smarter targeting when it was bouncing. Getting orbs from chakram was actually a nice change and added more utility to his kit than he had before. 

I also think being able to cast Halo in a wide area on a long-press would also be neat since he has to re-cast it on others people a lot more than Gara (and gara has the refresh when allies touch her 4). If you use Gara in a defense arbitration vs. using Nezha you see how Nezha has to constantly re-cast halo and you can't always target the guy in time before the immunity goes away, so he ends up taking damage where with Gara the defense target may not even run out of shields and ever take damage to his health to begin with. 

well i guess opinions may differ... i played so-so many hours with nezha and that damage protection was awesome, there r so many other abilities in the game that give damage reduction but complete damage protection was unique to only 2 frames. and u know i might have been fine with that change if they at least kept the pulse and to be honest it would have been much more unique if the chakram could heal WH and i know i'm not the only 1 who wnated that.

has for safeguard yeah i agree with u on that though i'm really more of a solo player so i don't actually use it maybe i would in certain situations if it had 100% effectiveness instead of 50% like u said. 

[(PSN)awsomegamerLA1]

also i don't think most understood my point about the healing pulse. with a mexed enhanced Vitality (220% health) most sentinels have over 1000 health. carrier prime have 1,280 health, let's say it's health is down to less then 100 how many health would it take to completely heal it? well u would need 48 health orbs to heal 1.200 health and more if the sentinel is really low on health. on the other hand the old nezha could completely heal it with only 2-3 pulses.

Edited October 21, 2018 by (PS4)awsomegamerLA1

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, (PS4)awsomegamerLA1 said:

i was hoping to find more people that share my opinion and i got the opposite... it's fine if u don't agree but really why even come here if that's the case? this thread is about how nezha could be better none care if u like the current 1.

Because what we're trying to explain to you is that the healing pulse, while it was technically better at burst healing, was a balance that had to be lost in making the overall Warframe better.

The frame is better. We played him, we all tried him, there are people that have campaigned for him to be better for years now. And now he is, you want to revert back to the old version?

That healing was the cost of it. He doesn't burst heal, now, he sustain heals because you only pick up Health Orbs when you actually need them, not when you kill an enemy and you suddenly see 200 Health evaporate because nobody right then needed it then, but did need it in 10 seconds when another enemy hit them.

Chakram now is a straight-up better ability in this form, with the different casting types, the energy orb drops and, yes, the health orb drops that play in to other functions.

While in a purely mathematical sense, getting a pulse of 200 health is better than getting an orb of 25 health, yeah, that's correct. You're missing the point that nobody actually used it, because they could never actually rely on the health when they needed it, only when they were in trouble and had to cast and then kill an enemy.

Yeah, 200 health is better than 25.

But having 10 Health Orbs on the ground ready to pick up as you take damage, with more being dropped with every kill, is better than 10 potential Healing Pulses from enemies that you still have to kill first.

It's much like the difference between Oberon's healing and Trinity's healing. Trin is a burst heal, totally replenishing everything, but only once per cast and what makes it a good cast is that it then reduces damage to allies for a while after the heal so they stay alive longer between them. Oberon's Healing, however, is (with a decent build) around 80 per second, costing him energy per second and increased drain when an ally actually needs healing, but also has a combo to make those allies tankier so they don't take as much damage for as long as the ability is active.

Both forms are incredibly effective, but mathematically 80 Health in a second is not as good as instantly gaining back all Health. Nezha's is just more like Oberon's now, where it used to be like Trinity's, it's heal over time instead of burst heal.

While the Healing on Nezha's 2 is lower you cast it many times more often. You proc off the Health orbs on more enemies than you ever used to cast it on in the previous iteration.

Not only that, his healing is no longer based on Power Strength, meaning you can have a max-range build for your Spears and Chakram, and the healing is completely independent of that, you don't nerf your healing by trying out a lower Strength build.

And this isn't coming from just me, it's coming from everyone who has re-tried Nezha, taking him out of the Arsenal again and dusting him off, putting on Forma to change up his builds and trying him from scratch. There are even players who are Long Run fanatics (like good old LifeOfRio) who used to laugh at Nezha as a warframe in general, and now admit he's actually good.

He's better. The frame as a whole is better.

And all it would take is for you to stop comparing apples to oranges, stop comparing Sustain heal to Burst heal, because both are effective, and Nezha is, funnily enough, more effective now with the sustain than he ever was with the burst, because other players can benefit from it more easily.

[(PSN)awsomegamerLA1]

@Thaylien 1st off "he is better" is an opinion

44 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

The frame is better. We played him, we all tried him, there are people that have campaigned for him to be better for years now. And now he is, you want to revert back to the old version?

no i didn't say i want him to revert to his old version. i just want him to be better.
sure there r things that improved- the casting animations, the damage buff and the clone chakrams... yeah those things can and should stay but i'm talking about the bad changes 1-the removal of the healing pulse and 2- the nerf of the halo from complete damage protection to 90% damage reduction.

also the pulse wasn't just 200 health, it was 250 and affected by power strength, my nezha's pulse could health over 500 health...
 

44 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

And this isn't coming from just me, it's coming from everyone who has re-tried Nezha, taking him out of the Arsenal again and dusting him off

if u and those barely ever played nezha that makes me take that opinion even less seriously....
nezha was my 2nd most used frame.. i did complete sorties with him and was my go-to speed run frame he really wasn't bad. people just didn't knew how to use him but most people would rather blame the farme... sure nezha still needed a rework and i said so myself but that's just not the 1 rework he needed.

sure sustained healing isn't bad but u r talking about cases of when there r large amount of enemies like survival. 
current nezha with max vitality has 925 health say a high level bomber destroys your halo and brings down your health to 100 or less, old nezha could restore it with 2 enemies. how many would it take for this nezha? and old nezha could at least make do with that with the 100% absorption WH but not this nezha.

also another good things in this nezha is that the damage multiplier for the damage WH takes during the invulnerability phase is much greater. i tried it sorties and got 20k-30k health imagine having the old WH with that much health... and like i said earlier having the chakram heals the halo would have made a great synergy. much better than the current 1 i reckon.

Edited October 21, 2018 by (PS4)awsomegamerLA1

[(PSN)awsomegamerLA1]

p.s i'm not gonna bother reply or even read any further comments of people that thinks he is better so do me a favor and just stop.

[This_Machine]

I want the old Nezha back, he was a lot more fun. No you couldn't take him into eso, but so what. I was doing an hour+ in kuva survival while being untouchable, and using that pulse to keep people alive when needed instead of lol orbs.

A lot of deluxe skins were sold though so I'm afraid we're stuck with this orb Lord version.

[Axio.]

5 hours ago, (PS4)awsomegamerLA1 said:

none of u even give a logical argument... an health can never be as useful as the healing pulse and how would 90% damage reduction is better than 100% damage protection?
if u personally like it it's fine. everyone has their opinions but don't say it as if it's a fact cause it's not.


i was hoping to find more people that share my opinion and i got the opposite... it's fine if u don't agree but really why even come here if that's the case? this thread is about how nezha could be better none care if u like the current 1.
 

p.s i'm not gonna bother reply or even read any further comments of people that thinks he is better so do me a favor and just stop.

Are you for real? Do you not know how an open forum works? Do you not know how a debate works? Are you so insecure in your own beliefs, that you are afraid of them being examined, and you're afraid of people disagreeing with you? What makes you think you have the right to voice your opinion on the topic, but no one else can say anything on the matter unless it's so that they can agree with you?

Like, are you actually serious right now?

Nezha's Heal was based off of range, and obviously, most of the time your allies are not going to be in range of the heal. Arguably you probably weren't always within the radius of the heal. Changing the heal to a Health Orb drop not only ensures that your allies can benefit from your expended energy, but it also ensures that you will always benefit from it. Not to mention, there exists a mod called Health Conversion, which increases a frame's Armor by a flat amount when a health orb is picked up. Since Nezha's ring reduces damage dealt to him, you are able to take damage through the ring safely, which will allow you to increase your armor. This raises your effective health, which equates to far more than 500 hp when taking into account the 1350 + Armor you will receive from picking up Health Orbs. This Armor is affected by mods like Steel Fiber, Armored Agility, and Gladiator Aegis, which, when combined with Nezha's natural armor score of 175, brings him to a grand total of 4,575 Armor.

At 4,575 Armor, a Nezha will take less than 6% damage from all sources, before the addition of the Halo. With the Halo, Nezha takes less than 0.5% of the damage he normally would. This means that his effective HP is up in the MILLIONS, and that a single 25 Health Orb will provide him with tens of thousands of effective health.

On top of that, Nezha's Warding Halo Scales off of armor, meaning the more you have, the more health the shield will have. This means you can get well over 18,000 shielding from this one Ability.

The only way this synergy works, though, is with the 90% damage reduction that Warding Halo gives now. It makes you incredibly safe while you stack up on the Health Conversion, and also allows for health conversion to activate in the first place, since you still take damage. You cannot pick up a Health Orb if you are full HP, and so with the old Nezha, this synergy was nearly impossible. Both due to the nigh impossible Health Orb drop rates, and also because you would have to remain at a low HP when you originally cast Warding Halo, trying to fill up on your Health Conversion while your HP is 100% protected. This change made Nezha much more flexible and team-oriented, since allies will not need to be standing next to you to be healed, and they will benefit from Warding Halo so much more with the addition of Safeguard to your Nezha. Nezha can now very easily give any frame the tankiness of a Rhino, as well as making them status immune, to boot. Granted, making them Status Immune is not new, however it's still very invaluable in high level play.

It does not matter how you try to argue this, both the math and the logic involved make it overwhelmingly clear that Nezha is better than ever.

And before you say that I have not played enough Nezha to know what I am talking about....

And assuming that 4.9% is based on Missions completed, rather than Mission length, I have over 660 completed missions as Nezha. I am more than qualified to speak on this matter. Perhaps even more qualified than you.

 

This forum does not exist to be some echo chamber for like-minded people. The goal of discussion is not to agree, but to discuss. If you can't handle people disagreeing with you, then I hope you quickly become acquainted with the feeling before Real Life does it for you.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Axio.

[Tiltskillet]

I don't use any  orb gimmicks right now, so yeah, I'd probably take the old heal back.  Definitely if it came with better base  range.  Especially since I found out it was able to heal objectives.  

But what would I be willing to sacrifice out of his current kit to get that (to me) better heal?  Realistically, nothing.  And there's no way he could get a decently ranged, spammable heal without losing something major.  Almost certainly several "somethings".  e.g., the vulnerability debuff on Chakram, its synergy with Divine Spears, plus some sort of hit to his TTL before healing.

 The orb mechanic isn't useless, even without health conversion, et al.  It's far from the best healing either, but that's ok.   It's the whole package that's important, and he feels really well balanced.  YMMV, of course.

[TyrianMollusk]

I wish they would just keep the healing pulse for objects and NPCs.  No need to take that away, even if they do like the health orb for players.

[Birdframe_Prime]

16 hours ago, (PS4)awsomegamerLA1 said:

p.s i'm not gonna bother reply or even read any further comments of people that thinks he is better so do me a favor and just stop.

Congratultions, you turned your discussion into a statement.

Well done on your lack of imagination. Have fun with that!

[Axio.]

11 hours ago, TyrianMollusk said:

I wish they would just keep the healing pulse for objects and NPCs.  No need to take that away, even if they do like the health orb for players.

I would personally enjoy the utility that would offer. Either that, or I would argue towards allowing Warding Halo to target objectives such as Cryo Pods and Excavators when using his Safeguard augment.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Axio.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

TL;DR of the thread, because you probably will regret reading it.

OP: Nezha's healing pulse on Blazing Chakram was better!

Logical People Trying to Have a DIscussion and Educate the OP: No, it is not better, having the Health Orbs as opposed to the healing pulse is much more consistent because you can be healed for more and when you need to be healed.

OP: nO Ur WronG ThE HeALINg PuLSE iS BeTtER I goT 500 HeaLTh On My HeALiNG pUlSe AnD Ha!

_____

Totally expecting a strike for this lmao.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

The synergy between Nezha and a Despoil Arcane Pulse Nekros is unreal, the entire battlefield will be littered with heal orbs. Imho, Nezha doesn’t need to be the one that primarily heals, let other peeps do the healing for you. Be the Nezha that tanks, CCs enemies, opens enemies’ defenses up and pilfer energy orbs off with Blazing Chakram.

The guy has a different kit altogether, so his utility is now entirely different. I would recommend adapting to the new Nezha and focus on his new strengths than keep to the past - he’s far more effective now under a different guise than before.

[(PSN)psycofang]

I like the health orbs better

Healing chakram could heal lots of hp sure but it required a hefty placement of power strength

Healing pulse isnt needed when im missing like 10-400 hp, healing pulse cant leave hp orbs on the ground in safe cleaned up areas for my buddies

 

Healing pulse doeant help me gain armor points with my Nezha

 

but orbs give me synergy with that mod

 

Healing pulse wont save my friend who is too far from me or that crewman i need to target asap

 

But orbs will reach them where i cannot

Orbs everywhere, i filled a floor, vs a pulse i need to stand next to no thanks. 

[Axio.]

On 2018-10-21 at 1:58 PM, (PS4)awsomegamerLA1 said:

also i don't think most understood my point about the healing pulse. with a mexed enhanced Vitality (220% health) most sentinels have over 1000 health. carrier prime have 1,280 health, let's say it's health is down to less then 100 how many health would it take to completely heal it? well u would need 48 health orbs to heal 1.200 health and more if the sentinel is really low on health. on the other hand the old nezha could completely heal it with only 2-3 pulses.

Oh, I was rereading this thread, and I forgot to mention how as a Nezha, you can put a Halo on your own Sentinel with the Safeguard mod. If your Sentinel is getting damaged while you are playing Nezha, then you are a bad Nezha. Put it on yourself, put it on your sentinel, and suddenly you have two instances of aoe damage and staggering. If that's not juicy, then you better tell me what is.

Also health Pancakes are not expensive at all. It's super easy to just plop one down and stand there for a while. You can make 10 for 9,000 credits, 600 Circuits, and 4,000 Nano Spores. Get the blueprint from Steel Meridian or New Loka.

Also also, if your Sentinel is dying a lot anyways, use the Djinn with the Precept offered by Cephalon Simaris called Reawaken.

Also also also, with the Armor link and health link mods on Kubrows and Kavats, you can make your companions even tankier than Nezha by comboing with Health Comversion. Millions of effective HP on your puppers and cattos, and they do more damage and give more buffs than sentinels. And with pupper and kitter vacuum coming, hoo-whee I am going to be more than happy to leave my Carrier Prime at home.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Axio.

[LuckyCharm]

As someone who runs nezha regularly for all types of content including arbitrations..  Why does he need the healing pulse?  Sentinals and pets can restore more than enough of your hp that you lose from the 10% damage you take after halo blocks the rest,  you can very easily cc enemies long enough to kill them with divine spears or firewalker and theres many other ways to get hp back. The hp orbs might seem insignificant but well..  Buy/farm yourself some arcane pulses or something that give hp back on healing orb pickup.  Or just get a lifesteal furis

[Golineth]

As someone who has played Nezha a lot before and after the rework I much prefer healing orbs to pulses. Sure, the orbs heal less but they are far more convenient and functional to actually use. Not to mention that they allow Nezha to make very effective use of Health Conversion for a ton of extra armour and Equilibrium for practically unlimited energy. And if you absolutely need an AoE heal there is always Arcane Pulse.

As for the Warding Halo going from 100% to 90% damage reduction it's kinda the same thing, it loses some hard numbers but in exchange it becomes a far more dynamic ability. With 90% damage reduction the world of on-damaged arcanes opens up as well as the previously mentioned Health Conversion and Equilibrium that aren't much use if you're immune to damage.

So yeah, IMO Nezha may have lost some raw numbers but the possibilities created by this change makes up for that loss by a country mile.

On 2018-10-22 at 12:48 AM, (PS4)awsomegamerLA1 said:

p.s i'm not gonna bother reply or even read any further comments of people that thinks he is better so do me a favor and just stop.

This is a public forum, you can't realistically expect or demand it to act as an echo-chamber for your opinion.