Can We Stop Catering to New Players?

[DiabolusUrsus]

2 hours ago, NovusNova said:

Maybe instead of a straight immunity, it could be like the nullifiers (destroy drone to bring down bubble) or Comba and Scrambus (shoot off face plat to disable their nullify ability) units, where you can remove the immunity to the CC abilities (or other abilities) by doing a certain action, such as shooting a specific part of the enemy when its vulnerable, similar to DE's "weak point" idea however you'd still be able to damage the enemy in general, just not CC them until you dealt with the item/ tech preventing the ability.

That sentient drone/ platform that the corpus used in the Valkyr Prime trailer to temporarily disable Valkyr Prime might be a good fit.

A better way to do this is to give these special units "counters" rather than passive immunities.

For example, the CC applies briefly but the unit "breaks" free sooner than expected while their gear is active.

I think immunities that allow enemies to simply no-sell Tenno powers really cheapen the experience, whereas if the powers still "work" only to be countered that would be more palatable in keeping with the universe lore.

[--PV--Arc]

7 hours ago, CoolDudeMcCool said:

Artificially increasing difficulty is removing mods so enemies deal more damage to you, but buffing enemy damage so enemies deal more damage to you isn't artificial difficulty?

Buff enemy damage = enemies do more damage = you are happy

Take off mod = enemies do more damage = you are not happy

Both options give you the exact same outcome, please stop being illogical. 

EXACTLY! BECAUSE I HAVE WORKED AND INVESTED TO GET THOSE MODS AND MY BUILDS WHERE THEY ARE.

What's the point of maxing them if I'm not supposed to use them against strong enemies ?!

 

Your idea of facing challenging content is garbage. All it offers is cheap thrills.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Arc2199

[zetheros1]

We have four revives by default. With a sentinel and arcanes, it's even more ludicrous, as even using a single revive is either rare or an indication of me being lazy. This game is definitely too easy; but care needs to be taken to make it more difficult. Amping up enemy damage and health is not the answer after a certain point; stuff like watching the skies for flying nullies does.

I feel we can keep the core 'power fantasy' of Warframe, as well as catering to lower levels AND making the game more difficult for those who want it.

Edited November 16, 2018 by zetheros1

[(PSN)FatMacBrbn]

I agree with Fortuna catering to new starting players and not powerful veterans. I expected nothing more than another POE with this update and so far it seems I was accurate. It is not "end game", thus should be within the realm of a player with max level weapons and frame to complete with the mods accessible up to that point. However, I do believe there should be content based in Fortuna that the player can return to after they progressed more. That is when the more "end game" challenges could be implemented. I think the veteran players are just thirsty for more content and that's why the Fortuna nerf is such a problem to them.

[Chaemyerelis]

The game isn't challenging because we are too powerful with some of these mods and/or abilities. If you make enemies into higher dmg bullet sponges you're just going to make the game worse. In order to bring some semblance of balance we will need to be nerfed or everything will just become more inflated than it is now.

[latetier]

i have 3k hours on steam and i played since update 9. i don't see any problem with catering to casuals. 

[--PV--Arc]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)FatMacBrbn said:

I agree with Fortuna catering to new starting players and not powerful veterans. I expected nothing more than another POE with this update and so far it seems I was accurate. It is not "end game", thus should be within the realm of a player with max level weapons and frame to complete with the mods accessible up to that point. However, I do believe there should be content based in Fortuna that the player can return to after they progressed more. That is when the more "end game" challenges could be implemented. I think the veteran players are just thirsty for more content and that's why the Fortuna nerf is such a problem to them.

Not for more content. Acceptable content. Pre-nerf fortuna was just that. It was perfect! It was challenge on the go. While doing bounties. While farming relics , traveling ,etc etc. We didn't have to camp and let the enemies ramp up. Everything around was a challenge AND IT WAS GREAT.

 

Warframe needs hard enemies that you don't need to wait for. It was what made fortuna fun.

[--PV--Arc]

3 minutes ago, latetier said:

i have 3k hours on steam and i played since update 9. i don't see any problem with catering to casuals. 

I don't either but when content that should be for non-casuals gets nerfed , I don't find it acceptable. The highest tier fortuna bounties are a joke now.

[latetier]

3 minutes ago, Arc2199 said:

I don't either but when content that should be for non-casuals gets nerfed , I don't find it acceptable. The highest tier fortuna bounties are a joke now.

hmm wierd i played on fortuna on release day and highest tier bounty has always been easy

[zetheros1]

We did it bois, DE hears us and they're bringing back that sweet difficulty for higher ranked players. Thanks DE!

[Pizzarugi]

4 minutes ago, zetheros1 said:

We did it bois, DE hears us and they're bringing back that sweet difficulty for higher ranked players. Thanks DE!

Yay, I guess? Can't wait for the same old press-4-to-win players to come back, nuke the high level bounties, and resume complaining that there isn't enough challenge for "veterans".

Edited November 16, 2018 by Pizzarugi

[--PV--Arc]

17 minutes ago, latetier said:

hmm wierd i played on fortuna on release day and highest tier bounty has always been easy

Then make it harder ! MAY THERE BE HIGHER DIFFICULTIES FOR ALL LEVELS OF PLAYERS!

 

A global nerf was the worst thing that could've been done.

[zetheros1]

7 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

Yay? Can't wait for the same old press-4-to-win players to come back, nuke the high level bounties, and resume complaining that there isn't enough challenge for "veterans".

This should do the opposite imo. I run capacitance nuke volt and nuking bounty level 5 enemies is not possible with 4 spam, they have way too much armour for that. I actually need to use my full skill kit to win, which is so much more fun. The only warframes I can think of off the top of my head that would nuke bounty level 5 enemies would be maim equinox, or saryn with enough buildup.

Edited November 16, 2018 by zetheros1

[--PV--Arc]

6 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

Yay? Can't wait for the same old press-4-to-win players to come back, nuke the high level bounties, and resume complaining that there isn't enough challenge for "veterans".

Lol says the one who supports the nerf. You just want press-anything-to-win. Sad that your NoobFrame is going away?

Edited November 16, 2018 by Arc2199

[Pizzarugi]

7 minutes ago, zetheros1 said:

This should do the opposite imo. I run capacitance nuke volt and nuking bounty level 5 enemies is not possible with 4 spam.

The only thing that got nerfed was their damage, their health is still the same as its always been, so I don't see how reverting this nerf is going to do the opposite of players spamming 4 to bypass the "challenge" they crave.

3 minutes ago, Arc2199 said:

Lol says the one who supports the nerf. You just want press-anything-to-win. Sad that your NoobFrame is going away?

My dude, I main Nidus. Do you really think re-doubling their base damage is going to have any impact on me? Are you still mad that I'm calling people like you out for being press-4-to-win noobs who say they want challenge, except do everything they can to blow up enemies from miles away before they have a chance to be a threat?

Edited November 16, 2018 by Pizzarugi

[zetheros1]

6 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

The only thing that got nerfed was their damage, their health is still the same as its always been, so I don't see how reverting this nerf is going to do the opposite of players spamming 4 to bypass the "challenge" they crave.

Nothing will stop a maim Equinox or Saryn, but this revert is a change in the right direction at least. Using defensive abilities and loadouts will be more important, giving less time to spam nuke and will help diversify combat tactics.

Edited November 16, 2018 by zetheros1

[--PV--Arc]

4 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

The only thing that got nerfed was their damage, their health is still the same as its always been, so I don't see how reverting this nerf is going to do the opposite of players spamming 4 to bypass the "challenge" they crave.

Yes. Taking pathetic damage and staying alive forever pretty much ends up in being every enemy dead. Surprise!

[Spectre-8]

Good news is that the new spider boss will be new player friendly , confirmed on stream 🤣

[Pizzarugi]

3 minutes ago, zetheros1 said:

Nothing will stop a maim Equinox or Saryn, but this revert is a change in the right direction at least. Using defensive abilities and loadouts will be more important, giving less time to spam nuke and will help diversify combat tactics.

Somehow I doubt re-doubling most enemies' damage back to what they used to be is going to encourage players play more defensively. Enemies can't be a threat if they're dead, this is just going to encourage more people to bring Saryn or Equinox to kill enemies as quickly and as often as possible to stop them from becoming a problem.

[--PV--Arc]

12 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

My dude, I main Nidus. Do you really think re-doubling their base damage is going to have any impact on me? Are you still mad that I'm calling people like you out for being press-4-to-win noobs who say they want challenge, except do everything they can to blow up enemies from miles away before they have a chance to be a threat?

And.... you think that's a valid argument? Bringing a frame that's not ideal at all for an open field is somehow supposed to be your defense? Shows a lack of diverse arsenal more than anything.

And Nidus? You're complaining about press-4-to-win players while you sit there in a spot being nothing more than a bullet sponge for most of the match?

Edited November 16, 2018 by Arc2199

[zetheros1]

Nidus is actually very good for open fields, but using equinox and saryn efficiently enough to nuke bounty 5, and calling them 'press-4-to-win noobs' is paradoxical.

[Rustmonger42]

I will concur that the first couple of days in OV were the most fun I have had in a long time simply due to that it was actually challenging and not meant for new players. The nerf took that all away. Even the highest tier bounty takes little effort and I am not one to wait around for an hour before things get challenging. Even if I was I will go into an area, not kill mobs until they drop a beacon and then the place is a ghost town for a few minutes until another wave comes in and I have to resist murdering them all so they drop another beacon. Even once there are 4 beacons, which before the nerf was a BLAST, now it's only a matter of minutes before everyone is dead and my wanted level drops back to zero. I loved the chaos.

[rune_me]

22 minutes ago, zetheros1 said:

This should do the opposite imo. I run capacitance nuke volt and nuking bounty level 5 enemies is not possible with 4 spam, they have way too much armour for that. I actually need to use my full skill kit to win, which is so much more fun. The only warframes I can think of off the top of my head that would nuke bounty level 5 enemies would be maim equinox, or saryn with enough buildup.

Or you know, bring Nova and slow them all to a crawl then waltz around killing them with headshots. Or Rhino and stop them dead in their tracks. And so on and on. More health and armor does not make the game harder to cheese, if you really want to.

[Pizzarugi]

12 minutes ago, Arc2199 said:

And.... you think that's a valid argument? Bringing a frame that's not ideal at all for an open field is somehow supposed to be your defense? Shows a lack of diverse arsenal more than anything.

And Nidus? You're complaining about press-4-to-win players while you sit there in a spot being nothing more than a bullet sponge for most of the match?

I have a diverse arsenal, and I utilize a lot of different frames for different missions (at least in sorties). The only difference between you and me, I don't nuke enemies from 60+ meters away by pressing one button then pretend I'm some hotshot pro who thinks the game lacks a challenge, because enemies got their damage halved. Seriously, the level you're going to in order to defend your noobish behavior is outstanding.

And I'll repeat what someone else said (not sure if it was here or some other thread), but frames like Nidus/Valkyr/Inaros can be as invulnerable as they like, but they can't put out nearly as much destruction as frames like Saryn, Volt, Mesa, and Equinox can. At least near-invulnerable tanks still have to worry about being overwhelmed by enemies, you just have to press 1 button to make it all go away.

So pro, very meta, wow.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Pizzarugi

[zetheros1]

Look guys, obviously warframes are not balanced, nor should they be. But the thing is, we're getting back some extra difficulty and that's quite a historic event for players who enjoy Warframe at a high level. We need more of this, but integrated in a way that does not terrify newcomers.