How to Un-Squishy any Framev

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

5 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

I use Rejuvenation on like ... Saryn, Gara and Trinity. Mainly due to being lazy to forma the Aura Polarity and not wanting to be anywhere near physique.

You could always run Infested Impedance instead 😂

[taiiat]

8 hours ago, ChaosSabre said:

Well it's more about that Quick Thinking + Flow setup is way better  than the suggested aura combo in this.

oh if we're only comparing to Rejuvenation on its own........
then everything is amazing since an Aura on its own doesn't do much.

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

3 hours ago, taiiat said:

oh if we're only comparing to Rejuvenation on its own........
then everything is amazing since an Aura on its own doesn't do much.

Without Quick Thinking + Energy Siphon (or in those conditional missions, Rejuvenation), no way I can do the 80-100 level missions. One shot mechanics there, and there isn't always a safe place when your cloak runs out. I got it at max duration but 30 seconds isn't long when you have to clear the room of multiple spawns. I'm one tanky Loki!

[cheliel]

Sorry

but it can’t be super wrong and have a reply saying it works both at the same time 

have you tried it even 

[Zankast]

Here I may have a somewhat good solution for the defensive part, and for more tactical gameplay (also, up my post 😃 )

 

[Zankast]

On 2018-12-07 at 10:44 AM, Ver1dian said:

Except Ember and Banshee, they're sitting ducks.

Well, they are birds so.. yeah.

[midtarget]

Nope, you didn't account for armour, one of the main reasons why something is tanky, have as much health as you want, doesn't help if you only have 5% damage reduction, even if you have a small health pool, having 70% damage reduction is good, even better is CC, stop your enemies from attacking at all. Even worse, you said shield mods are good, which they definitely are not, they have no reduction value, and will be immediately destroyed, its better off not counting them as health on most frames.

On 2018-12-06 at 1:45 PM, cheliel said:

I misspoke earlier- it’s not like having a pocket healer, it’s more like being the squad healer.

As a side note, the forma to blank polarity in the aura slot also opens up your frame to more building possibilities...

More to gain than to lose, amirite? 

You just formad a blank aura slot, one of the worst things you can do, sure, if you are at endgame formaing that might help you build, but just don't... its not worth the value of an unbound forma slot.

Every squishy frame either has a damage reduction skill or a large energy pool, QT capitalizes on that.

On 2018-12-06 at 12:04 PM, cheliel said:

take it from an Ember built this way, I watched in awe as players came and left in arbitrations 

if Ember can be sturdy, so can your squishy

With what exactly? Bunch of blinding Excaliburs some Bless Trinities, and a Hallowed Oberon?

Building for health regen is not the worst idea to come to mind, but placing all your bets on one slot is going to get you screwed, health regen doesn't protect from one shot kills, or literally any enemy if you don't kill them immediately, even worse against heavy units.

Rejuvenation is a viable strategy, but don't go calling it the Un-Squishyfier, it isn't the ultimate health pool, calling this a viable strategy with a squad is good, calling it a pocket Trinity or Pocket Oberon? no, what you're saying is only going to create a crowd of newbies crying as their "god build" fails and they die, while seeing others with better strategies still surviving. You clearly do not have a very through understanding of health, damage, and ways to produce damage reduction.

[cheliel]

sorry tldr but this op has a returning player with positive results, so it ain’t just theory no more

the rate you and your team gets life back can’t be denied 

plus it’s not just the rejuvenation + coaction, the op asks for 1 or 2 health mods according to difficulty 

[taiiat]

10 minutes ago, cheliel said:

the rate you and your team gets life back can’t be denied 

nobody is denying it, we're just saying that 3.45 Health/Second isn't that significant for the vast majority of Warframes. atleast not in a capacity to be considered something to use as Survivability. should be treated as a trickle source (which it is).
and if one was to use Rejuvenation for a good reason (being able to capitalize on it), using Coaction Drift with it would be a waste of a Mod Slot unless you're banking on boosting Auras your Allies have that benefit more from it in an organized Squad, that you know what other Auras will be present ahead of time.

[Otaiken]

4 hours ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Without Quick Thinking + Energy Siphon (or in those conditional missions, Rejuvenation), no way I can do the 80-100 level missions. One shot mechanics there, and there isn't always a safe place when your cloak runs out. I got it at max duration but 30 seconds isn't long when you have to clear the room of multiple spawns. I'm one tanky Loki!

You realize you can just pop into operator mode and go invincible and then relocate even if your invis runs out in the middle of a stacked group of enemies right? Turning operator mode on by itself gives you short invincibility period which is enough time to go into void mode.

You can also dash and walk through toxin clouds and tank any slash or toxin procs as long as you manage to bail out of the frame soon enough,

Which brings me to my point. People seem to forget they have invincibility button at their disposal which costs them no energy.

Endgame survivability through operators is on a whole new level. You can turn invincible, relocate and heal (Magus Elevate/Vazarin). You can tank anything and CC entire groups of enemies as you dash through them to safety.

It's a shame that most people use operators solely to spam energy and revive, they can do so much more than that. And that is even before you invest into focus and equipment. It is a huge grind though, so I can kinda understand it.

Edited December 12, 2018 by LocoWithGun

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

1 hour ago, LocoWithGun said:

Endgame survivability through operators is on a whole new level. You can turn invincible, relocate and heal (Magus Elevate/Vazarin). You can tank anything and CC entire groups of enemies as you dash through them to safety.

It's a shame that most people use operators solely to spam energy and revive, they can do so much more than that. And that is even before you invest into focus and equipment. It is a huge grind though, so I can kinda understand it.

When people can get their operator's energy pool and efficiency up, first.

Like I said, most people aren't at "end-game", and I have 3 quest lines and other stuff needed to get done.

So, I'll remain a tanky Loki, and not have to do with public groups dropping on the last wave and getting "host migration" junk leaving me to fight level 100+ solo ... and with infested that does toxin damage and you can't always spare a slot on your frame for the toxin resist (it's resist, not immunity, too). Oh, I can finish it solo, but ONLY because my toon is tanky.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

4 hours ago, cheliel said:

sorry tldr but this op has a returning player with positive results, so it ain’t just theory no more

the rate you and your team gets life back can’t be denied 

plus it’s not just the rejuvenation + coaction, the op asks for 1 or 2 health mods according to difficulty 

1 post of positive feedback with the mod combination at hand, within a myriad of posts from several whom have played the game for years and are, assuredly, aware of Tower 4 difficulty endurance runs (and higher) and knowingly are aware and are critical of the aformentioned mod combination presented.

1 or 2 health mods along with rejuvenation + coaction drift still beckons the question of an understanding in whether you yourself are aware that you are limited to the miniscule amount of eHP allotted to you just to supply a small rate of health regen that may or not may be beneficial for your team and may even become a liability to your own personal build and a liability to the audience you may be trying to aid. When in fact there are better abilities or team synergies in the game that can aid players more and are weighted more in their own application to survivability.

Also, the use and application of Redirection for your argument as a life sustain is questionable already when presented with scaling enemy difficulty as a counterpoint.

Conclusion: “Nah.”

[Veridian]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

1 post of positive feedback with the mod combination at hand

I agree we are mainly clowning, without saying anything constructive to help discourage this noob trap, so I'll try to add on to you.

Rejuvination+Coaction Drift+Vitality should not be coined as some holy trinity of durability because: 

Rejuvenation offers 3hp/s in an environment where you can get hit for E.G. over 300, through armor, in a second, followed by another hit, the very same second.

Coaction Drift increases the healing by 0.45 a second, meaningless in every sense of the word.

Vitality is a good mod and the only one that is regularly used. 

Redirection is bad for anything after lvl 40. Shields don't scale with armor and bleeds and toxins bypass them. Only works on characters with total damage reduction like Trinity

In conclusion - this setup would work in an environment where it doesn't matter what mods you pick at all. Furthermore it's even worse since OP is claiming that 1-2 more durability mods should be included if needed, so that's - Aura, Exilus, 1-3 mods, basically what you have left would be a frame who's abilities are mostly lacking any significant impact, may as well run with a tank.

It can't be called a pocket Trinity, where you get all your health back and a DR to top it, nor pocket Oberon, where you can have 100+ hp/s with status immunity.

 

"So what should I run if a vitality mod doesn't do the job" you ask, well there are some solutions that are infinitely better than the above stated, they can be combined together, for the heck of it they can all be put in 1 build for a hilarious overkill.

1. Adaptation - as long as you don't face tank it will rack up eventually, making you really durable.

2. 2-3 Umbral mods alone make you tankier than the stated above.

3. Arcane Grace + Arcane Guardian heals more and grants more durability.

4. The closest thing to true immortality - Quick Thinking + Hunter Adrenaline + Primed Flow + Life strike.

5. Spam healing pads - not an ideal solution, still better.

6. Specters - Trinity/Oberon/Ancient Healer..., take your pick.

7. Furis + Wings of Purity, I'm not kidding, this is how much Rejuvination+CD sucks.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Ver1dian

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Or you could just, you know, learn how to avoid damage in the first place

Kinda makes a difference

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

9 hours ago, Ver1dian said:

I agree we are mainly clowning, without saying anything constructive to help discourage this noob trap, so I'll try to add on to you.

Rejuvination+Coaction Drift+Vitality should not be coined as some holy trinity of durability because: 

Rejuvenation offers 3hp/s in an environment where you can get hit for E.G. over 300, through armor, in a second, followed by another hit, the very same second.

Coaction Drift increases the healing by 0.45 a second, meaningless in every sense of the word.

Vitality is a good mod and the only one that is regularly used. 

Redirection is bad for anything after lvl 40. Shields don't scale with armor and bleeds and toxins bypass them. Only works on characters with total damage reduction like Trinity

In conclusion - this setup would work in an environment where it doesn't matter what mods you pick at all. Furthermore it's even worse since OP is claiming that 1-2 more durability mods should be included if needed, so that's - Aura, Exilus, 1-3 mods, basically what you have left would be a frame who's abilities are mostly lacking any significant impact, may as well run with a tank.

It can't be called a pocket Trinity, where you get all your health back and a DR to top it, nor pocket Oberon, where you can have 100+ hp/s with status immunity.

 

"So what should I run if a vitality mod doesn't do the job" you ask, well there are some solutions that are infinitely better than the above stated, they can be combined together, for the heck of it they can all be put in 1 build for a hilarious overkill.

1. Adaptation - as long as you don't face tank it will rack up eventually, making you really durable.

2. 2-3 Umbral mods alone make you tankier than the stated above.

3. Arcane Grace + Arcane Guardian heals more and grants more durability.

4. The closest thing to true immortality - Quick Thinking + Hunter Adrenaline + Primed Flow + Life strike.

5. Spam healing pads - not an ideal solution, still better.

6. Specters - Trinity/Oberon/Ancient Healer..., take your pick.

7. Furis + Wings of Purity, I'm not kidding, this is how much Rejuvination+CD sucks.

^^ Again all "end-game" stuff (how are people going to spam healing pads as a lowbie)? Getting Nano spores to make them is LATER CONTENT.

They forgot how it was to level. Like the time in WoW they SCREAMED "Never wear spirit!" while leveling (despite a little bit helps with faster health regeneration, then). Not satisfied with screaming about that, they'd move to "Don't be a clicker!", when with the proper addon, you get the same results with a keyboard, as that $89 fancy dancy Razor MMO mouse that breaks in a year (yeah, all those people notice even in Warframe "Don't make your LMB continous fire!", because those Razor mice are so cheaply made, it'll fall apart in a year!). So busy SELLING a company's mouse that makes money to pay those eSport teams, by passing off junk devices as "kewl" for the kids, is what is pushing that nonsense.(and to be "kewl" among their "swag" peers). Get that $29 MMO mouse off of Amazon and be REALLY KEWL. If it breaks within a year, it's still cheaper than PoS devices Razor sells that is 3x more expensive!

The "secret sauce"? You go out and test builds. Warframe is a game with mods TO test. You tailor your builds around your play style ... and what gear you have CURRENTLY.

OP's advice is good for those halfway through getting through content, as those mods drop simply opening up the star chart. Arcanes and all that stuff is "end-game" content ... why also Nano spores exist on the outer planets. And you need to farm 100,000s of them for all those healing "pizzas" you'll need to open the outer planets!

Umbral mods? You need Ducats, and you only get that when farming later content. Long after you get a Vigor mod.

If you do what the kids scream about, you'll become your little brother who's picked on. Build around how you play, and do stuff the other kids don't, because you'll find you'll save the mission from the "meta" folks, who only learned how to OP content. So when a "host migration" bug hits you, you can down those level 100+ mobs solo, because you built your frame to do what the kids don't, even without the higher MR levels!!!

[Veridian]

11 hours ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

^^ Again all "end-game" stuff

OP's advice is good for those halfway through getting through content, as those mods drop simply opening up the star chart.

QT-HA-LS can be acquired by the time you've unlocked your first void mission, which is 20-25, which if I recall, since I started the game not so long ago in May, requires 0 setup to get to. It's infinitely better and it saves up mod slots for more meaningful things. Furis is hardly endgame also.

Another solution, which heals for more and is available by the time you get to Earth - a pet with HR and PL.

Completely ignoring the fact that Op's advice mentions how well this handles in Arbitrations, I'm also not commenting on Vitality, which is present on 90% of frames anyway, the 3.45 heal is negligible.  No one sits for one or two minutes after clearing a room to go to the next. If enemies hitting for 1-10 damage so this heal would matter, its also not needed.

In theory this is sustain, in practice it's too negligible to make a difference.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Ver1dian

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

18 hours ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

snip

I used to run Saryn v1.0 with only an Overextended and used Rejuvenation as her aura. Trust me, I know about the whole Rejuvenation heal ticks. Slapping Coaction Drift on it isn’t any better. Also spamming Miasma back in the day for the flat Corrosive damage wasn’t healthy either.

If you like the concept that is presented with Rejuvenation + Coaction Drift, by all means use it. However, to vouch it’s effectiveness is nothing less than a fleeting thought when there are more effective mechanics in-game, and you’ll discover them in due time.

Forgot to level? The game’s pretty easy now. Have you played Warframe when it had a Stamina bar and bulletjumping wasn’t a thing? Or rather you were only limited to 4 revives per Warframe and the only way to get more revives was to wait it out for 24 hours or shell platinum to keep playing your favorite frame?

Edited December 13, 2018 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

I used to run Saryn v1.0 with only an Overextended and used Rejuvenation as her aura. Trust me, I know about the whole Rejuvenation heal ticks. Slapping Coaction Drift on it isn’t any better. Also spamming Miasma back in the day for the flat Corrosive damage wasn’t healthy either.

If you like the concept that is presented with Rejuvenation + Coaction Drift, by all means use it. However, to vouch it’s effectiveness is nothing less than a fleeting thought when there are more effective mechanics in-game, and you’ll discover them in due time.

Forgot to level? The game’s pretty easy now. Have you played Warframe when it had a Stamina bar and bulletjumping wasn’t a thing?

Not that memory!  Please, I beg of you.....

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

On 2018-12-06 at 3:04 PM, cheliel said:

take it from an Ember built this way, I watched in awe as players came and left in arbitrations 

I use Ember in Arbitrations without Rejuvenation and don't usually have issues with surviving. I use Growing Power as her aura.

Your method may be helpful in some situations but should not be marketed like a "fix-all" or replacement for skill. Players should work towards customizing their builds based on the individual frame's strength and weaknesses and kit, and the player's playstyle. It shouldn't be trivialized down to a universal build so they can get away with playing content they have no business being in and avoiding becoming a better player.

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

16 hours ago, Ver1dian said:

No one sits for one or two minutes after clearing a room to go to the next. If enemies hitting for 1-10 damage so this heal would matter, its also not needed.

No. If you're doing cache missions, and secret rooms, you will stick around longer than 2 minutes.

Your mindset is the reason WHY doing the Sortie yesterday the Spy mission failed 3x in a public group -- they raced right to the objective like BOTS and sounded the alarn... bye bye data! I had to solo it to make sure it was completed. The ONLY part that worked in a group was the rescue mission, only because the 2nd group could even rescue the prisoner, and I had to use my Sonicor to clear a path for the 2 minute types who kept dying.

ESOs, the same thing happens. People with their fancy dancy weapons and those copy and paste Warframe builder loadouts, like BOTS, come in with the same specs -- then pull out by wave 8. Leaving me to SOLO it myself.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

21 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

No. If you're doing cache missions, and secret rooms, you will stick around longer than 2 minutes.

Your mindset is the reason WHY doing the Sortie yesterday the Spy mission failed 3x in a public group -- they raced right to the objective like BOTS and sounded the alarn... bye bye data! I had to solo it to make sure it was completed. The ONLY part that worked in a group was the rescue mission, only because the 2nd group could even rescue the prisoner, and I had to use my Sonicor to clear a path for the 2 minute types who kept dying.

ESOs, the same thing happens. People with their fancy dancy weapons and those copy and paste Warframe builder loadouts, like BOTS, come in with the same specs -- then pull out by wave 8. Leaving me to SOLO it myself.

Why would you ever do a Sortie Spy and/or Rescue in a PuG in the first place? 🤔

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Why would you ever do a Sortie Spy and/or Rescue in a PuG in the first place? 🤔

Because I don't want to wait 3hrs spamming recruit for that copy and paste perfect team. I rather just get it done without the trolls, asshats and I AM GOD folks who race through and sound the alarms to lose the data!

The screenshot below let me tell you a short story about elitism. Was in LFR doing the Dragonsoul raid like below. The tank was SCREAMING about "noobs" so much, he walked right off the spine. Let's just say he didn't say a word later!

Look at the healing done on Recount. That guy can sure talk the trash and doesn't pull his weight -- because he spent his time trash talking, not doing his job.

That's WHY I solo as much as I can, to not get THOSE morons in groups.

This is WHY I build for endurance, too... 9 minutes and healing until the boss enrages wiping the group (because they couldn't pass 4k DPS the dungeon required)...

More so when I had to show a group of trolls and asshats to not mess with the tank healer ... they had to watch themselves all 23 of them dead for dying in the orbs, then watching me heal a hunter to solo the boss...

Why is that???

😄 😄 😄

Edited December 14, 2018 by Kevyne_Kicklighter

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

@Kevyne_Kicklighter Let me rephrase my original statement: “Why would you ever do a Sortie Spy and/or Rescue in a PuG in the first place when you can easily finish them solo, stress free, as a Loki, Ivara, Limbo+Huras, or whatever Frame you choose to use at your own pace?”

🤔🤔🤔

PuGing or recruiting Sortie Spy or Rescue has always been bad juju in my book. It’s always better to get those missions types done solo imho.

Edited December 14, 2018 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

@Kevyne_Kicklighter Let me rephrase my original statement: “Why would you ever do a Sortie Spy and/or Rescue in a PuG in the first place when you can easily finish them solo, stress free, as a Loki, Ivara, Limbo+Huras, or whatever Frame you choose to use at your own pace?”

🤔🤔🤔

PuGing or recruiting Sortie Spy or Rescue has always been bad juju in my book. It’s always better to get those missions types done solo imho.

Because it's an option.

With Spy and Rescue missions solo is the best way, but some people can't unlock those alarms fast enough -- can't use cipher keys in sorties, either. BUT you get what comes through the door. Sometimes they're great and it's a clean run. Other times they race right in and sound those alarms in less than 2 minutes spawning (the runs have to be flawless or it's a fail).

[Veridian]

You are obviously tilted for some reason to a point where you're not making valid arguments anymore, but I'll bare with it and try to make my point.

7 hours ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

No. If you're doing cache missions, and secret rooms, you will stick around longer than 2 minutes.

Now read carefully what I said "No one sits for one or two minutes after clearing a room to go to the next"

7 hours ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Your mindset is the reason WHY doing the Sortie yesterday the Spy mission failed 3x in a public group -- they raced right to the objective like BOTS and sounded the alarn... bye bye data! I had to solo it to make sure it was completed. The ONLY part that worked in a group was the rescue mission, only because the 2nd group could even rescue the prisoner, and I had to use my Sonicor to clear a path for the 2 minute types who kept dying. 

So on the topic of Rejuvenation sucking as a reliable source of sustain you attack me directly, because I don't spend 3 minutes per room?

Also, it's not my mindset, because in all my spy sorties I say "if you don't know what to do, sit back" and in 2 minutes we were in extraction because the 3x~7mr listened. Now the wrong mindset is of people thinking they are infallible and if something goes wrong it's the game's fault. Calling out my efficiency wrong mindset is insulting to anyone who simply had more practice.

7 hours ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

ESOs, the same thing happens. People with their fancy dancy weapons and those copy and paste Warframe builder loadouts, like BOTS, come in with the same specs -- then pull out by wave 8. Leaving me to SOLO it myself.

Let me guess, you can solo it because of the godly Rejuvenation + CD combo, right? Right? 😄 

There's another topic for what you are saying here, where someone was unhappy with people leaving by 8. ESO isn't designed to push you to go further, you want to spend hours in a mission - Arbitration it is. You are once again insulting people who simply don't want to sacrifice their effort/reward ratio for some arbitrary challenge.

 

Don't take it as an insult, but in an earlier post of yours you said " Without Quick Thinking + Energy Siphon (or in those conditional missions, Rejuvenation), no way I can do the 80-100 level missions", I doubt you can solo anything past wave 8 after that statement.

Also, it's not ok to call people bots and mindless and then go about telling about others' elitism, comes off as a bit hypocritical.

 

P.S. REJUVINATION SUCKS AS A VALID AND MAIN SOURCE OF SUSTAIN AND CD WOULD BE A WASTE OF AN EXILUS FOR IT.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Ver1dian