baruuch preview

[(PSN)teacup775]

most of it looks fine but his 4 looked just whelming, that is to say it did not look impressively destructive. limited range and single target with a few ragdoll moves.

ragdoll and repell attacks are often viewed as trollish attacks. either the demo itself wasn’t in a good place to showcase, or his 4 needs more work.

ps if bullets pass thru him, team mates behind are going to get hit.

[Rawbeard]

yeah, control really doesn't matter too much, especially since we are playing rocket tag most of the time anyway. looks like an MR fodder frame, to be honest

[LuckyCharm]

It did look like the damage was unmodded, so it'd probably be a whole lot more destructive when actually modded up with more attack speed etc since its longer range than valkyr and garuda talons, and probably more reliable than wukongs. 

I'm just wondering how range mods like primed reach will effect it, because if it extends the strikes even further it'd be pretty amazing for room clears. Didnt look single target either since it was more conical in shape with how the symbols came out

[kyori]

1 hour ago, (PS4)teacup775 said:

it did not look impressively destructive

After making Saryn a press-4-to-win frame, I think DE is really trying to move away from this meta as they initially said. So I think they are trying to make each frame's 4 different, so that they are not all press-4-to-win frames. Which sadly most people will just use press-4-to-win Saryn.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Baruuch's 4 looked like ranged Melee with expanding waves of effect (which they told us flat out, those 'symbols' he throws get bigger the further out they go). To go with that the weapons themselves were likely un-modded, and further than that, the skill isn't completely for the damage because it's also for the crowd control and lifts.

Meaning that even if, when fully modded, this doesn't deal as much straight up damage as Exalted Blade, it's still going to be more useful than it because enemies you hit may not be dead, but none of them will be shooting at you or your allies either.

You have moves that group enemies up for allies to attack, like Nidus, you have moves that push enemies away to clear the melee area (I think you're dealing with the wrong people if they think that this is a troll move...), and you have moves that lift enemies to radial CC the groups of heavy enemies that can form up.

I was honestly groaning in my chair to see another Ability Weapon frame, they're flat-out unimaginative and a cop-out on balancing a real ability, but seeing a CC-based Ability Weapon was actually a breath of fresh air compared to the litany of 'just keep swinging until things die' frames.

[(PSN)teacup775]

10 hours ago, kyori said:

After making Saryn a press-4-to-win frame, I think DE is really trying to move away from this meta as they initially said. So I think they are trying to make each frame's 4 different, so that they are not all press-4-to-win frames. Which sadly most people will just use press-4-to-win Saryn.

my worry with his 4 is that, in bulk, its attacks are ragdolls and scatters. such moves have their place, but i prefer singularity (vacuum) moves or ranged damaging stuns. singularities are quite effective at defense since you can gather enemies and make them helpless and your squadees are happier because fish in barrel instead of losing a target. i’d rather see stuns (in place) or vaccum swapped for scatters when channeling.

i use nidus larva specifically for gathering, making a helpless ball of arms and legs right over the defense target which takes narry a scratch. most people get agitated with enemies over a defense target. it matters little when they all perish in an instant, never doing more than a single shot of damage or are endlessly trolled into helpless blobs.

i like the idea of a very active 4 as his is. tuned properly it will be a lot of fun.

Edited December 8, 2018 by (PS4)teacup775

[(PSN)teacup775]

6 hours ago, Thaylien said:

You have moves that group enemies up for allies to attack, like Nidus, you have moves that push enemies away to clear the melee area (I think you're dealing with the wrong people if they think that this is a troll move...), and you have moves that lift enemies to radial CC the groups of heavy enemies that can form up.

 I was honestly groaning in my chair to see another Ability Weapon frame, they're flat-out unimaginative and a cop-out on balancing a real ability, but seeing a CC-based Ability Weapon was actually a breath of fresh air compared to the litany of 'just keep swinging until things die' frames.

i draw on xperience from seeing control wizards blow enemies away to the rage of team mates. to those under duress what matters is they get relief. a blob is easier to focus fire on. he already has a ton of in place cc. his 4 should deal mostly gathering (cc and damage) or pure damage at a distance, or closing attacks (utility skill).

i agree DE needs to put some creative effort into frame abilities. garuda has been reworked to look a little more appealing, but the shield and blood orb.. eh the aesthetic choices look like cut and paste from mirage and volt (but with annoying shield sway). they mar an overall fun first with a lunge and gut move. i’d have preferred any blood orb to make a bloody mess (fallout perk) like effect. with aoe explosion on death or lunge mass slash attack.

(and in skins. Revenant’s effects is an example) baruuch is nicely refreshing in this case. khora as well. but the fetish butt hole reveal dresses are getting tiresome. i understand that boys will look endlessly at ass but sheesh.

Edited December 8, 2018 by (PS4)teacup775

[EinheriarJudith]

6 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Baruuch's 4 looked like ranged Melee with expanding waves of effect (which they told us flat out, those 'symbols' he throws get bigger the further out they go). To go with that the weapons themselves were likely un-modded, and further than that, the skill isn't completely for the damage because it's also for the crowd control and lifts.

Meaning that even if, when fully modded, this doesn't deal as much straight up damage as Exalted Blade, it's still going to be more useful than it because enemies you hit may not be dead, but none of them will be shooting at you or your allies either.

You have moves that group enemies up for allies to attack, like Nidus, you have moves that push enemies away to clear the melee area (I think you're dealing with the wrong people if they think that this is a troll move...), and you have moves that lift enemies to radial CC the groups of heavy enemies that can form up.

I was honestly groaning in my chair to see another Ability Weapon frame, they're flat-out unimaginative and a cop-out on balancing a real ability, but seeing a CC-based Ability Weapon was actually a breath of fresh air compared to the litany of 'just keep swinging until things die' frames.

i completely agree. another just another weapon frame. 3 abilities that make fighting in CQC good and then they end it with a ranged melee? so bad.

[(PSN)teacup775]

8 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

i completely agree. another just another weapon frame. 3 abilities that make fighting in CQC good and then they end it with a ranged melee? so bad.

but that’s his theme. “peace” but with a breaking point. i dunno, the 4 lacks a sense of fury to it.

an exploding palm.. divine pillars (total ros monk fan here) would be most in line... esp exploding palm with a trigger.

[EinheriarJudith]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)teacup775 said:

but that’s his theme. “peace” but with a breaking point. i dunno, the 4 lacks a sense of fury to it.

an exploding palm.. divine pillars (total ros monk fan here) would be most in line... esp exploding palm with a trigger.

i would love an exploding palm style. but another exalted weapon frame? imo boring forma sink.

[LAD.Y]

for me, my only issue with his ult was that while at first glance it looked pretty, and has decent range in terms of width, the animations...were just... kinda dull. I hoped for something a bit more fancy? than a simple 1 2 strike on repeat.

[MasterBurik]

@(PS4)teacup775

From what I heard in the stream preview:

• Non-directional combos produce levitation
• Directional (movement press) combos ragdoll/push
• Slide attacks is radial levitation.
• Slams ragdoll/push.
• Block combos pull enemies.

Edited December 8, 2018 by MasterBurik

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, LAD.Y said:

for me, my only issue with his ult was that while at first glance it looked pretty, and has decent range in terms of width, the animations...were just... kinda dull. I hoped for something a bit more fancy? than a simple 1 2 strike on repeat.

Heh, I think that's a little because of how he was being played. We did see his 'push' combination in full, with a one-two-three-Kick combo, and around that it was mostly Rebecca trying to find places to actually use the other two combos. They're trying to make combos that will work with the current system, but are easily adapted to Melee 3.0 with the full work-over they're doing with that.

All of those combos are almost certainly going to be four-press inputs, with a varying amount of strikes or effects for that. It's why they kept saying things like 'his push combo' and 'his block combo' or 'his standing combo', because they're that far along with the Melee 3.0 work that it's the new terminology already sticking ^^ So everything's likely being balanced around that, with the base in the things we've seen already to do with the rework.

Remember, though, it may look dull to you, but they may be basing all of these off a real martial art style, and the movements are supposed to be that precise, steady and contained because his 'paci fist' style is supposed to be projected power not overt movement. Something like that anyway.

After Excalibur's consistent 4-slash combo done over and over and over again boring us stupid, after the absolute chaos that is Hysteria's combos and movements giving us a headache, and after the plain weird ones that Wukong uses alongside his almost non-existent base melee range... I'm just happy to see them working on this with some kind of goal in mind from those combos rather than looking for the aesthetic.

[LAD.Y]

3 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

Heh, I think that's a little because of how he was being played. We did see his 'push' combination in full, with a one-two-three-Kick combo, and around that it was mostly Rebecca trying to find places to actually use the other two combos. They're trying to make combos that will work with the current system, but are easily adapted to Melee 3.0 with the full work-over they're doing with that.

All of those combos are almost certainly going to be four-press inputs, with a varying amount of strikes or effects for that. It's why they kept saying things like 'his push combo' and 'his block combo' or 'his standing combo', because they're that far along with the Melee 3.0 work that it's the new terminology already sticking ^^ So everything's likely being balanced around that, with the base in the things we've seen already to do with the rework.

Remember, though, it may look dull to you, but they may be basing all of these off a real martial art style, and the movements are supposed to be that precise, steady and contained because his 'paci fist' style is supposed to be projected power not overt movement. Something like that anyway.

After Excalibur's consistent 4-slash combo done over and over and over again boring us stupid, after the absolute chaos that is Hysteria's combos and movements giving us a headache, and after the plain weird ones that Wukong uses alongside his almost non-existent base melee range... I'm just happy to see them working on this with some kind of goal in mind from those combos rather than looking for the aesthetic.

i understand that the combos are most probably based on actual martial arts, that wasn't my issue. The only part of his ult combo i had seen had just been one singular thing on repeat, THAT was my issue. Martial arts is more than just one stance over and over again. But from what it sounds like they showcased a bit more in parts I hadn't seen, so *shrugs* i'll just have to find more clips and wait and see. 

(i also don't even play any of the aforementioned frames on a regular basis because exalted weapons just aren't my play style, and in part that's due to the lack of variety there. But I still have similar concerns there as well)

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 minute ago, LAD.Y said:

(i also don't even play any of the aforementioned frames on a regular basis because exalted weapons just aren't my play style, and in part that's due to the lack of variety there. But I still have similar concerns there as well)

Yeah, it's why I haven't for a long time, I'm literally holding out for that Melee 3.0 to fix how boring Excal is, to allow Valkyr to not get locked in place by an accidental use of the base combo, and for Wukong to not need to hold Block to have a decent melee combo.

But I'll say, it was definitely the way he was being played that made the combos all seem same-y.

[LAD.Y]

19 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

Yeah, it's why I haven't for a long time, I'm literally holding out for that Melee 3.0 to fix how boring Excal is, to allow Valkyr to not get locked in place by an accidental use of the base combo, and for Wukong to not need to hold Block to have a decent melee combo.

But I'll say, it was definitely the way he was being played that made the combos all seem same-y.

that's a mood. As for the rest of his kit idk. I'll again have to play it/mod it to see how it feels. I'm not sure I'll like him enough to play super frequently, but I at least like that he seems fairly unique. His first ability in particular peaks my interest

[Birdframe_Prime]

5 hours ago, LAD.Y said:

that's a mood. As for the rest of his kit idk. I'll again have to play it/mod it to see how it feels. I'm not sure I'll like him enough to play super frequently, but I at least like that he seems fairly unique. His first ability in particular peaks my interest

Heh, honestly in my opinion they've done well. After Garuda, with the highly-conditional defense she has, a play on the health/energy balance, and then that awesome debuff 4 that makes everything amazing... sorry, still pleased with that one... After Garuda I was wondering how they were going to make Baruuch a little unique.

So having a warframe with three-and-a-half abilities plus their passive devoted to staying alive instead of dealing damage... that was fun.

I've always pushed that there are a few things that Warframes need and that's; Defense, Offense, Support and CC. There's also Mobility, but that's not strictly needed unless only two of the first four are present.

You can't have a frame that only does one thing, or even really only two things, there has to be three.

So if you look at a well-rounded Warframe, there's Rhino. Offense, Defense, Support and CC, in that order across his abilities. But then you take the poster boy of Warframe, Excalibur and he has Offense/Mobility, CC, Offense, Offense. He manages three things, with that caveat I mentioned of only doing two of the main four, so he has an aspect of Mobility to bring that up to three things. All good frames have these things balanced, so Excal only has one ability for CC, but it's one of the best CC casts you can get for the energy cost, instantly stopping anything in line-of-sight from attacking.

So you look at Baruuch and you have Defense, CC, Defense/CC, Offense/CC on his abilities. Three of the four main aspects taken care of, and in a way that blends them all so they work either independently or when cast together.

But I'm also pleased from another angle;

One of my favourite frames to date has been Zephyr. Why? Because she has the ability to let me play at my own pace. Turbulence and Low Gravity combine to make it exceptionally hard for enemies to actually kill you, and Airburst will give you the space you need when there's not a lot to go around. If you need actual damage, then smacking your Tornado into a crowd, hitting with that CC and pumping it full of damage will wipe things out up to some really fun levels. But if you need to aim, if you need some time, if you want to revive a team member or activate life support, Zephyr will do that and just sigh heavily at the enemies that try to stop her.

Baruuch seems to have this whole vibe. You're going to build up that passive for damage reduction, you're going to get your 3 on for more that will also provide a stun and disarm on enemies that get close, and then combine it with your 1 so that you don't even take damage from the direction you're looking. Then, when you need the space, there's his 2 for the radial sleep. And if you need Damage, you can hit 4 and actually use a melee ability to either knock back, lift in the air, or drag in enemies around you while you pummel them.