What is a more controversial topic: Leeches, or Difficulty?

[MagPrime]

1 hour ago, Kyoresh said:

 

You seem to misunderstand as well lol.

I said warframe has no deep or complex mechanics zu begin with. Dont get why you are "laughing" but thats how it is, but I would gladly be proven wrong

Are you sure you want to you with "no u" as your rebuttal? 

[Quait]

10 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

> that moment when you're a mostly Solo player that enjoys the power fantasy, so doesn't belong to either camp. guess that just means I'm here to watch and eat popcorn until the thread locks. 

I hope this thread doesn't get locked. This is only my 2nd thread and it's a masterpiece. 😎

[DishSoap]

19 hours ago, Quait said:

Which one requires our attention more?

Content drought.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

53 minutes ago, Kyoresh said:

 

actually now Im laughing xD

 

I play many different Frames, never much liked those Press 4 Frames, but thats a funny assumption.

 

So until someone actually proves me wrong Im gonna assume you have no idea what your talking about 😉

Because you're still not getting it:

[Cuchullin]

1 hour ago, Teloch said:

6 hours ago, limernest said:

There will be no difficult content in Warframe ever

Basically, this.

Warframe is a massive game that needs a lot of sustenance in the form of players. The kind of players who can and want to put in some skill are in the minority to the hordes of casuals. You put these two facts together and understand that WF will never have neither higher skill requirement (as it prevents newbs from flocking and conflicts with the entire concept of the game) nor any enjoyable "endgame" (as there can be no end to the game of perpetual grind)

Do you want a skill-based game? You play Monster Hunter (or its clones), or the Souls series (and its clones), not warframe.

That and basically Warframe is basically a shoot em loot em game that is basically in continual development with the grind factor turned up to 11 so in my view there will be players who will power through with the meta and end up with god tier weapons and frames which is fine as a goal but I can understand wanting to have content to challenge those load-outs.

I will say this though DE is a business and will always want to have a very large player base to keep spending money for plat to some degree. Sure it's a bit of a bump on vets who've already done everything and maxed everything but honestly how fast do you expect DE to churn put content that matches their vision for the game brings in new players and satisfies the vets. That's saying nothing about if they did take the time to do that properly people will likely be going on about content drought which happened recently when they were building fortuna. Naturally this is just my observation so take it for what it's worth.

[DishSoap]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Because you're still not getting it:

Difficulty is not a purely subjective or objective problem. Difficulty comes from two different areas, mechanics and statistics. Statistics are much more objective and involves player power levels and how enemies scale towards though power levels. Problem is with pure scaling is that they become walking HP sponges and auto-aim turrets. This is where mechanics come into player that are much more subjective since it take into account the player's agency in dealing with them.

What I think people want more than just giant HP bars is a push to more mechanics, examples of these are things like Nullifiers, Shield Lancers, etc. But they do also want those with the giant HP bars in some instances.

Edited December 17, 2018 by DishSoap

[(PSN)abbacephas]

3 minutes ago, DishSoap said:

Difficulty is not a purely subjective or objective problem. Difficulty comes from two different areas, mechanics and statistics. Statistics are much more objective and involves player power levels and how enemies scale towards though power levels. Problem is with pure scaling is that they become walking HP sponges and auto-aim turrets. This is where mechanics come into player that are much more subjective since it take into account the player's agency in dealing with them.

What I think people want more than just giant HP bars is a push to more mechanics, examples of these are things like Nullifiers, Shield Lancers, etc. But they do also want those with the giant HP bars in some instances.

That's all well and good, but my post was specifically aimed at the person I quoted because they will not acknowledgement that what they are saying is a subjective opinion and are passing it off as absolute truth.

The bolded sentence is exactly what they will not acknowledge (and which I agree with).

[DishSoap]

17 minutes ago, Cuchullin said:

That and basically Warframe is basically a shoot em loot em game that is basically in continual development with the grind factor turned up to 11 so in my view there will be players who will power through with the meta and end up with god tier weapons and frames which is fine as a goal but I can understand wanting to have content to challenge those load-outs.

I will say this though DE is a business and will always want to have a very large player base to keep spending money for plat to some degree. Sure it's a bit of a bump on vets who've already done everything and maxed everything but honestly how fast do you expect DE to churn put content that matches their vision for the game brings in new players and satisfies the vets. That's saying nothing about if they did take the time to do that properly people will likely be going on about content drought which happened recently when they were building fortuna. Naturally this is just my observation so take it for what it's worth.

I don't really believe this is true. There's definitely types of content that can appease both new players and vet players but it's simply not there. It used to be in the game, endless modes that actually rewarded you for staying longer. DE simply doesn't make scaling content anymore, you aren't rewarded for your effort.

For example an endless extermination dungeon that is randomly generated with various enemies and a boss added every few levels of the dungeon. You wouldn't even need to make new tile-sets just use the current ones and have them randomly spawn for each level. Have enemies scale up and give better rewards the further you go.

Another example is a Roguelite style dungeon where you start with a basic setup of Excalibur [0], Braton [0], Lato [0], and Skana [0]. In the dungeon you could find many of the weapons and frames Warframe has to offer allowing you a taste of them as a goal to look for. You could find temporary mods that make you question if changing your Rank 30 weapon for a stronger Rank 0 weapon is worth doing. Add merchants between each floor so you can buy and upgrade your equipment. Again the longer you fight through the dungeon the higher your rewards and you have to make choices on whether or not you want to keep your rewards or risk at the chance of more loot.

It's totally possible but DE simply isn't interested at adding it to the game. Instead we get cinematic story quest and rep grinds both are things that are very limited in keeping players attention.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

1 hour ago, Quait said:

I hope this thread doesn't get locked. This is only my 2nd thread and it's a masterpiece. 😎

Oh it'll get better before then.  Wait until it gets personal.

[ranks21]

8 hours ago, BL4CKN0ISE said:

Leeching" is a fictional problem invented by people who refuse to accept how Warframe works.

Leeching is not a problem. It is a feature. Everybody does it to some degree

difficulty created by lack of knowledge and weak gear leans you toward "dependency" of others for help or you scampering to the latest video on the matter. knowledge of the game mechanics will school you into the most "effective" way of getting to that goal.

understanding and using all stuff at your advantage is called efficiency even at the expense of others << the affinity system promotes this.

in conclusion saying someone is leeching is just being hypocritical, likewise saying content is difficult is just saying youre unprepared or not knowing the correct way to accomplish the feat.

[Kyoresh]

1 hour ago, MagPrime said:

Are you sure you want to you with "no u" as your rebuttal? 

really? thats how you interprete it? okay.

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Because you're still not getting it:

 

so is it not a fact that warframe has no deep and compicated mechanics?

[Cuchullin]

1 hour ago, DishSoap said:

I don't really believe this is true. There's definitely types of content that can appease both new players and vet players but it's simply not there. It used to be in the game, endless modes that actually rewarded you for staying longer. DE simply doesn't make scaling content anymore, you aren't rewarded for your effort.

For example an endless extermination dungeon that is randomly generated with various enemies and a boss added every few levels of the dungeon. You wouldn't even need to make new tile-sets just use the current ones and have them randomly spawn for each level. Have enemies scale up and give better rewards the further you go.

Another example is a Roguelite style dungeon where you start with a basic setup of Excalibur [0], Braton [0], Lato [0], and Skana [0]. In the dungeon you could find many of the weapons and frames Warframe has to offer allowing you a taste of them as a goal to look for. You could find temporary mods that make you question if changing your Rank 30 weapon for a stronger Rank 0 weapon is worth doing. Add merchants between each floor so you can buy and upgrade your equipment. Again the longer you fight through the dungeon the higher your rewards and you have to make choices on whether or not you want to keep your rewards or risk at the chance of more loot.

It's totally possible but DE simply isn't interested at adding it to the game. Instead we get cinematic story quest and rep grinds both are things that are very limited in keeping players attention.

Perhaps I should clarify I'm not saying that it's impossible for DE to create content as your suggesting here it would be great but they have kind of backed themselves into a corner to a degree by providing the content that they have at the rate they have. It's great stuff to be sure and I do like it but it kinda leaves itself open to the meta and power creep modes which seems to pop up regularly on the forums and causes each thread that broaches these topics to fall into lovers and haters to bickering. Beyond that there is an issue of the percentages of the community going on about whatever aspect they are arguing from like the endgame section looking for challenge, new players looking for access to various  parts (which caused the whole fortuna nerf and return to original thing like a tennis match. Then there's the conclave runners, the spy mission players and the arching players and their opposites).

As for increasing the player base well every gaming company want this, the problem being that once you start focusing in on certain parts of the game others will suffer to some degree and with the sheer size of the community some part of this will find something to complain about something

Ultimately yes Warframe is a great game but it's not necessarily cohesively put together, in a sense it's still somewhat segmented into the various mission types with no natural flow from one mission to the other to say nothing of the speed at which people run through the missions at high speed like a meeting of the flashes. Beyond that it's your basic shoot, loot, build stronger stuff, buff it even more, repeat. Although I have to say I do like the idea of the Roguelite style dungeon I imagine it would be hard to include into the game in a technical and lore standpoint at this moment in time.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

1 hour ago, Kyoresh said:

so is it not a fact that warframe has no deep and compicated mechanics?

Yes. That is correct. You have been expressing am opinion this entire time (which is subjective by nature).

[DishSoap]

1 hour ago, Cuchullin said:

Although I have to say I do like the idea of the Roguelite style dungeon I imagine it would be hard to include into the game in a technical and lore standpoint at this moment in time.

I don't see it being something that hard to program. The biggest thing would probably be finding out how to make a temporary inventory for the stuff in the Roguelite dungeon. Other than that most of what I described is in the game in some way. As for the lore it's not a problem in more sci-fi games since you can normally pull something from out your ass like "it's a simulation". After all you're not keeping everything you find inside the dungeon.

[(PSN)Herrwann69]

Why is it so difficult for some to admit they have cleared the game and need to move to another game for some time ?

Warframe is not an endless game, it's not because you have put some money in it that DE must bring you infinite scaling contents or new things to do past 1000h. 

Warframe is huge but have a limit, and you've reached it. Have fun investing yourself in an other game and see you later on Warframe.

[Cuchullin]

3 hours ago, DishSoap said:

I don't see it being something that hard to program. The biggest thing would probably be finding out how to make a temporary inventory for the stuff in the Roguelite dungeon. Other than that most of what I described is in the game in some way. As for the lore it's not a problem in more sci-fi games since you can normally pull something from out your ass like "it's a simulation". After all you're not keeping everything you find inside the dungeon.

I take it you have some experience with coding then? Fair enough it's true that a lot of the mechanics and such are already in game but putting the rest in and fitting it into the game will still take time and that includes the lore. I mean Stalker mode has technically existed for the last two years but hasn't been implemented due to a lack of lore reasoning among some other reasons from what I've heard.  Beyond that it is unlikely that DE will use your idea because of the fact that like I said before they put themselves into a corner by making Warframe the way it is.

[DanteYoda]

I don't give a damn about Leechers the difficulty is way too high, i only use Nezha as all my other frames die way too fast solo even on Neptune..

[(XBOX)ZAYNE 79]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb DanteYoda:

I don't give a damn about Leechers the difficulty is way too high, i only use Nezha as all my other frames die way too fast solo even on Neptune..

lol

You have a mod problem then ;)

[Proffebolter]

From my point of view, I think the main problem is the 2. So many leechers as the difficulty of the game.

People with low MR enter missions that are not supposed to be able to handle them alone. And enter missions, an example of this Eidolon there are many people who enter Eidolon and what is the problem? They do not enter with the right equipment and they leave the work to high MRs. Things that should exist a restriction of content through MR. That exists in weapons. Why not in the missions? Of course, low MRs are very difficult, making the last content is the last difficulty of the whole game. What they should do is make their content regarding their MR and no greater than that. As you advance from MR, you unlock more missions.

An example of this, Monster Hunter. If your Hunter Rank is low, you can not access missions that ask you for a Rank higher than what you have. Which seems to me very logical. If you want to unlock more content then you have to spend more time in the game and upload weapons and warframes and among other things to gain mastery.

 

Example of the WoW with the dungeons. If you enter a dungeon that you do not have the necessary level, basically it will not let you in and even if you go with a party it will not let you enter.

And even for the raids you have to have a minimum GS (GearScore) to be able to enter. If not, it will not leave you. It is simple.

And speaking of that, look at what happened when ESO and SO were introduced. The leechers number has been fired. Making many do not do their job and get all the rewards of the world. And I still think that they should reform the affinity system, if you kill you win all the affinity, and the rest of the group only 25% of the affinity that player has won. Thing that would not be avoided .... Very easy to put a MatchMaking on your MR. And that only matches you with your MR or similar. And if not and as a last resort the Votekick.

 

The problem with mods rivens is that sincerely it has been a tremendous mistake from my point of view. Weapons that are used a lot now will be used a lot more, even a weapon with decent statistics can be rescued or become very powerful. But what about the very weak weapons? Example: Skana, even if you play a mod riven of the good, it will not be profitable to use it. Which seems to me to be fatal and that's why the difficulty of the game has gone down a lot.

And what could have been done was to create a system of constant and unlimited progressive improvement. That is, if you use a weapon a lot, you are going to do more damage than a person takes that weapon for the first time. But of course you will have a higher cost each time you try to improve a weapon.

And with respect to Umbras mods, without words. Mods have been created only and exclusively for Tanks / damage. example: Rhino / Chroma / Oberon / Atlas enter other Warframes When the tanks are being the Meta of the game because it is a Warframe safe to play without risk, while other Warframes that are not tanks, have difficulties to survive in combat. Thing that should not have been created for me. And look what are the Top 10 of the most used Warframes. ----> The Tanks

 

And that is why people ask for a greater difficulty, because now if you remove the mods they will riven. I assure you that all people are going to complain about it. Between what they have invested of time, money, etc., etc.

But the idea of increasing the difficulty is basically, playing with people from your MR, that is, experience, giving a challenging content and enjoying it even more with your teammates.

Do you think it's fun to play an MR 3 with an MR 20 or higher? From my point of view, no. Except for many cases.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by Proffebolter
Repeated phrases

[Proffebolter]

hace 3 minutos, Proffebolter dijo:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by Proffebolter
Wrong buttons. I wanna change the edit to other post.

[Dabnician]

Serious question: why dont you all just abort the mission and restart it with out the leech if its such and issue?

Simply refusing to play with a play style/warframe and then telling that player why sends a better message then just complaining about it on the forums.

2 hours ago, Proffebolter said:

The problem with mods rivens is that sincerely it has been a tremendous mistake from my point of view. Weapons that are used a lot now will be used a lot more, even a weapon with decent statistics can be rescued or become very powerful. But what about the very weak weapons? Example: Skana, even if you play a mod riven of the good, it will not be profitable to use it. Which seems to me to be fatal and that's why the difficulty of the game has gone down a lot.

This is exactly whats wrong with them, they dont save bad weapons and they make good weapons OP, which ends up getting everything nerfed at the end of the day.

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by Dabnician

[Kyoresh]

13 hours ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Yes. That is correct. You have been expressing am opinion this entire time (which is subjective by nature).

so that would mean warframe has complex mechanics? if so, please tell me which

[ThumpumGood]

On 2018-12-16 at 9:26 PM, Quait said:

Which one requires our attention more?

Difficulty? As in needing higher difficulty cuz I dont see difficulty in the game. Generally if I struggle in the game, I will hunt down info on how to improve and it works. So I dont see that as any kind of an issue. And since I've already replied several times in the other leech threads... Im just going to skip over that cuz Im done arguing with leeches who dont want a kick feature so that they can continue to make things difficult on people who are actually trying to get things done.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

1 hour ago, Kyoresh said:

so that would mean warframe has complex mechanics? if so, please tell me which

I don't have to. It's not for me to explain. You are welcome to your subjective opinion. But do not think, for one second, that it is absolutely true. It is not. You don't think Warframe has complex mechanics, good for you. Others think it does.

[DatDarkOne]

On ‎2018‎-‎12‎-‎17 at 6:39 AM, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

> that moment when you're a mostly Solo player that enjoys the power fantasy, so doesn't belong to either camp. guess that just means I'm here to watch and eat popcorn until the thread locks. I will say this though:

I completely missed this gem earlier.  I fall into this category as well.  

@Kyoresh Actually Warframe does have complex mechanics.  The mod system is one, status/crit mechanic is another.  Then the Elemental combo/enemy weakness follows that.  There's even more that you would have to solo to see effectively due to not being rushed by other players.  These are the stealth mechanics.  Yes, there are stealth mechanics in Warframe.  That people actively ignore them doesn't mean that they aren't there.  

I could probably come up with a few more mechanics to add in, but I think I mentioned enough so far to show complexity.  If having multiple mechanics all working together at once isn't complex, then I don't know what is.  😁