Inaros Feedback/Rework

[DustyFlash]

Spoiler

 

Inaros is currently being used as a lazy tank, which involves doing almost nothing to survive the weakest or strongest of enemies by using almost none of his abilities to fight the enemy ( which could be because some of his abilities are quite laking ).

So I will go over his kit, its current issues, and I will also prompt a potential rework to make using his abilities and playing him more engaging.

Passive: His current passive is only usefull 0.1% of the time, all it currently does is prolong the time between his death and revive in solo missions. I see this ability as being a bit ridiculous considering that you are playing as an extreme WW2 Tank, if you die as someone as tanky as Inaros and also need a passive to prevent you from dying, then I don't know what to think of you.

Passive Reworked: Inaros will now slow down up to 3 of the closest enemies within 20m by 30%. (Hands made out of sand litteraly trying to grab onto the enemies feet, but they are kinda weak)

Health Reworked: Currently Inaros can start any mission with the maximum amount of health like any warframe, I intend to make it so you only start with 20% of your maximum health instead. (Currently: Max Health Rank 30 Inaros: Starts with 2200 HP, After: Max health Rank 30 Inaros: Starts with 440HP) this is intended to discourage lazy tanking very early on and to make so the frame at least has some level of threat to him (other than himself when he is using explosives, I'm looking at you player20428869 ). 

In addition to this change, his energy pool is now replaced by his health pool, except its not really a health pool either, as you are made of sand you won't be able to use arcanes such as Arcane Grace. (Color of his HP is now orange just like armored enemies)

Additionally, Inaros regains 0.4% of his health/s if he is bellow 20% health, and losses 0.8% of his health/s if he is above 20%. (Total health, not current health) (If he is at 20.5% health, lost health will not go past 20%)

Dessication: It is a really good ability, but only when used as a combo with a Covert Lethality dagger or when solo, as the enemies will usually only get blinded if they have you in their line of sight (as the sand gets in their eye, not their shoes).

Curse Reworked Ability: Inaros curses the enemies (no he does not swear at the enemy) imobilizing up to 10 targets (Many sand hands grab the enemy and immobilize them, opening them to finishers). The ability costs 7% of your total Health to cast. Recasting the ability will free the imobilized targets and target new ones if available, if not then it will refresh the duration on the already cursed enemies. Lethal finishers on the enemy will drag their bodies into the ground, turning them to sand which can then be collected to regain 30% of your total health back (The ability will not target small entities such as maggots or small seeker rollers). (Casting animation is same as dessication, except instead of tossing sand, it will rise hands from the ground) 

Devour: Currently all its used for is invulnerability and sand minnion memes. It can be a bit slow sometimes and the shadows last for a very short duration. (Because they last for 15 seconds)

Devour Reworked: No longer stuns the targeted enemy and Inaros can no longer pull the affected enemy towards him. Inaros will instead rise his hand and begin to siphon the life from the affected target. You may tap the ability to quickly regain a small portion of your health pool (5% of the enemies hp is erased) or you can hold the ability to continously drain the enemy of life force. Damage dealt towards the enemy will be of 20% hp/s unnaffected by mods. If the enemy is completely consumed, he will be reborn as a temporary sand shadow, however, the sand shadow has an unlimited duration as long as you have health. You may have an infinite amount of sand shadows, however one shadow will drain 0.6% of your health/s. The ability uses no health to cast, it is however on a short cooldown of 5s. You may not use any weapons while siphoning, however you are invulnerable and you constantly regenerate health. The ability can be used from a distance, however it will take longer to completely siphon the enemy the further you are.

Darude Sandstorm: A complete joke of an ability with horrible crowd control. It can be quite annoying in some missions to suddenly have your enemies flying everywhere taking no damage and giving no affinity. 

DARUDE SANSSTORM Sandstorm Reworked: It will no longer fly enemies everywhere (unless they are dead), enemies will instead by drained of life (raw damage just the like the current sandstorm and you also get a minimal amount of health) and have their movements slowed down(by 30%). While this is happening Inaros will lose 2% of his total health/s (unaffected by efficiency), however he is partially cappable of using his weapons, the sandstorm itself will also slow you down but by a much smaller amount(15%). Because of the sandstorms effectiveness its range will be reduced accordingly from 15m to 10m.

Scarab Swarm: Currently it mostly acts as a better passive for Inaros, giving him 100% extra armor, which isn't a massive amount considering how armor scalling works. The ability itself can be usefull for healing, but it currently is much easier to just stab someone and get your entire health pool back. The augment for the ability makes it extremely useful as it stands right now.

Scarab Swarm Reworked: You can still just like before convert your health into something, however this something no longer is armor. You can now convert your health into scarabs that will occasionally attack up to 1-5 enemies at a time that are within 15m of you, crowd controlling them and dealing slash damage. The damage of the swarm grows the more health you invest in it (theoretically infinite), but at the same time it becomes weaker overtime, as you will lose 5% of your invested health/s. The scarabs can also sacrifice themselves to protect you from crowd control if used with the augment.

This entire rework is focused around being tanky only as long as you play well with the warframe. It also encourages creativity and flexibility in the kit of the Warframe.

Curse will be affected by: Durration, Range, Efficiency (less health used) and Strength (More targets).

Devour will be affected by: Duration (Rate at which the enemy is drained), Range (Efficiency at which the enemy is drained based on distance*), Efficiency (Rate at which your shadows drain your health)

Sandstorm will be affected by: Range and Strength

Scarab Swarm will be affected by: Range, Duration, Efficiency (cost for building up the swarm), and Strength (power of the swarm and the chance of it to slash proc).

PS: I probably screwed a bit of the writing making some of the abilities sound unclear or weird, if thats the case please inform me and I will make an attempt to make it clearer to understand in a future edit.

 

^ Inaros Rework/Feesback 1.0 ^

Attempt NR.2 Based on Feedback:

Passive: Lifesteal on finishers is good, the ressurection passive is extremely lackluster.

Passive Rework: You have a shorter time before you bleed out (10s), instead of having to leech enemies you now have to find parts of your body which are scattered around (4 parts) collecting a part will increase the bleedout duration by 2s collecting all of them revives you, passive only occurs once every 60s.

Dessication: Good ability, only downside is LoS requiremenet.

Curse: The same as in 1.0 except that you have your full health when you start the mission, ability still costs life.

Devour Reworked: Devoured enemy takes much more damage now. Sand shadows can now also be consumed for additional life. 0 cost, on a cooldown of 7s.

Sandstorm: Posseses Chaotic Crowd Control capabilities.

Sandstorm Rework: Enemies are no longer displaced and instead blinded and slowed down. Drains 0.5% health/s. Upon ability end the enemy is blinded for 3s.

Scarab Swarm: Unchanged.

Edited February 16, 2019 by DustyFlash
Due to extensive . . Feedback, I had to reconsider the rework.

[LSG501]

6 minutes ago, DustyFlash said:

Health Reworked: Currently Inaros can start any mission with the maximum amount of health like any warframe, I intend to make it so you only start with 20% of your maximum health instead. (Currently: Max Health Rank 30 Inaros: Starts with 2200 HP, After: Max health Rank 30 Inaros: Starts with 440HP) this is intended to discourage lazy tanking very early on and to make so the frame at least has some level of threat to him (other than himself when he is using explosives, I'm looking at you player20428869 ). 

In addition to this change, his energy pool is now replaced by his health pool, except its not really a health pool either, as you are made of sand you won't be able to use arcanes such as Arcane Grace. (Color of his HP is now orange just like armored enemies)

Additionally, Inaros regains 0.4% of his health/s if he is bellow 20% health, and losses 0.8% of his health/s if he is above 20%. (Total health, not current health) (If he is at 20.5% health, lost health will not go past 20%)

 

Um... no thanks... the whole design around Inaros is a massive health pool and the ability to regenerate that, it's why he has no shields and his abilities give him back health, not to mention some of his augments eat into said health pool.  And that's ignoring the fact that 440HP is less than most other frames with vitality added.

If you want a warframe with lower health, no shields and health regen use nidus, thats HIS design.

[DustyFlash]

23 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

And that's ignoring the fact that 440HP is less than most other frames with vitality added.

But he has no vitality equiped. His max health at rank 30 is 2200, and 20% of that is 440hp.

And the health regen on Inaros is much lower than that of Nidus. ALSO, I'm not here to talk about Nidus, I'm here to talk about exactly just how lazy and booring it can be to play as a 0 risk tank as Inaros. Even Nidus can have his own risks and die easily if he is played badly, the only reason nidus is good and fun is because of his kit. What does Inaros have? A MASSIVE HEALTH POOL, because thats tottally fun and useful.

Edited February 16, 2019 by DustyFlash

[peterc3]

43 minutes ago, DustyFlash said:

Passive: His current passive is only usefull 0.1% of the time, all it currently does is prolong the time between his death and revive in solo missions. I see this ability as being a bit ridiculous considering that you are playing as an extreme WW2 Tank, if you die as someone as tanky as Inaros and also need a passive to prevent you from dying, then I don't know what to think of you.

Passive Reworked: Inaros will now slow down up to 3 of the closest enemies within 20m by 30%. (Hands made out of sand litteraly trying to grab onto the enemies feet, but they are kinda weak)

He also has lifesteal on finishers. That is his main passive. That you can also revive by tagging enemies and either killing them yourself or having your squad kill them is extra.

This entire thing just reads like you don't like Inaros. Why bend him to your liking vs. find a frame that better suits your play style?

[vector77]

That looks more like a new frame than a rework.

32 minutes ago, DustyFlash said:

This entire rework is focused around being tanky only as long as you play well with the warframe. It also encourages creativity and flexibility in the kit of the Warframe.

It is nice to have one warframe that doesn't even need to use any abilities (if you have all mods/arcanes), what's so bad about that? If you want to use abilities there are 30+ other frames for that. Sure some of his kit can use rework, but there is no need to make something completely different out of him.

[DustyFlash]

17 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

This entire thing just reads like you don't like Inaros. Why bend him to your liking vs. find a frame that better suits your play style?

The thing is. What does Inaros have right now besides a massive amount of Health and some disgusting lifesteal? Nothing, he is just a blank slab of pressed sand that just sits in one spot and lives by doing absolutely nothing.

16 minutes ago, vector77 said:

Sure some of his kit can use rework, but there is no need to make something completely different out of him.

I mean, I don't really see how he could be made more fun while being less lazy with his current kit . . . + You are still very tanky thanks to the regen that you gain if you are bellow 20% HP, so in a way, you are just as tanky as before for our low level 25 Lancer, the only difference being that now you actually have an ability kit that does something fun instead of supporting one singular massive health bar.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

Some people will complain about anything. Inaros is in no need of a rework/revisit.

He is quite frankly solid and useful. Enough people play him for his various advantages and he is one of few frames with almost no weakpoints in his kit as he currently is. His passive is his weakest link easily.

Simply put, it is not needed at all here when you weigh other frames against the limited time DE seems to put into updating/upgrading existing frames.

[peterc3]

9 minutes ago, DustyFlash said:

Nothing, he is just a blank slab of pressed sand that just sits in one spot and lives by doing absolutely nothing.

This is how you are playing him. Guess what that disgusting lifesteal and huge health and armor pool lets you do? Take your favorite melee and go to town. I find him quite fun. Mostly use his 1, 2 is great to get out of a pinch, 3 is kind of fun in anything where kills aren't the most important thing and his 4 is really the only thing I find boring because I don't really use it beyond the charge for more Armor.

If there's an Inaros just sitting somewhere, doing nothing, report them. Why change a frame because you and people who are going to leech regardless of what is and isn't in the game?

[DustyFlash]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Simply put, it is not needed at all here when you weigh other frames against the limited time DE seems to put into updating/upgrading existing frames.

I never asked for the warframe to be reworked within 24h or the entire forums shutdown.

If he is to be reworked someday then there will be a forum thread with some feedback.

31 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

He is quite frankly solid and useful. Enough people play him for his various advantages and he is one of few frames with almost no weakpoints in his kit as he currently is. His passive is his weakest link easily.

Well yeah, because all his kit does is one thing, heals, healing abilities are fail proof. And the "various advantages" is a bit of a stretch.

24 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

This is how you are playing him. Guess what that disgusting lifesteal and huge health and armor pool lets you do? Take your favorite melee and go to town. I find him quite fun. Mostly use his 1, 2 is great to get out of a pinch, 3 is kind of fun in anything where kills aren't the most important thing and his 4 is really the only thing I find boring because I don't really use it beyond the charge for more Armor.

I mean, I can take any melee and likely any frame and go downtown, but at least I can go downtown with some interesting abilities and a level of risk. (Also how does one even get in a pinch situation as Inaros)

His 1 & 2 do bassically the same thing, his 3 is fun but completely chaotic (also in some more extreme cases, it can stop wave progression if an enemy is ragdolled out of bounds in a defence mission). His 4th doesn't have much going for it other than healing, which makes it just a more expensive 1&2.

30 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

If there's an Inaros just sitting somewhere, doing nothing, report them. Why change a frame because you and people who are going to leech regardless of what is and isn't in the game?

I didn't mean that theres players out there who just afk as inaros because they are too tanky (we have Limbos for that). I meant that he doesn't require ANY effort to be tanky, allowing players to completely chill while being only usefull with their weapons.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

This just seems bad.

[LSG501]

1 hour ago, DustyFlash said:

But he has no vitality equiped. His max health at rank 30 is 2200, and 20% of that is 440hp.

And the health regen on Inaros is much lower than that of Nidus. ALSO, I'm not here to talk about Nidus, I'm here to talk about exactly just how lazy and booring it can be to play as a 0 risk tank as Inaros. Even Nidus can have his own risks and die easily if he is played badly, the only reason nidus is good and fun is because of his kit. What does Inaros have? A MASSIVE HEALTH POOL, because thats tottally fun and useful.

As others have said, if YOU don't like him, don't play him.....there is nothing particularly wrong with him as he stands, a few minor tweaks maybe here and there but nothing that requires a major rework, except his 'death passive', I think anyone would agree that needs reworking for high levels.

His entire design is basically about that MASSIVE HEALTH POOL and the fact he 'can't die'..so you decide YOUR rework will remove his main selling point and nothing you've suggested for the rework would be an improvement imo. 

Personally I like him as he is, there is nothing wrong with a warframe being designed around being naturally tanky and us having to use our weapons to do the killing....you know some of us like killing stuff close up, it's part of the reason ember wof got nerfed.

As others have said there are far more lacklustre frames in need of a rework than inaros. 

[vector77]

8 hours ago, DustyFlash said:

Well yeah, because all his kit does is one thing, heals, healing abilities are fail proof.

Well, that's not true, he also does pretty good crowd control with his 1, 4 is cc too but also heals you and allies and his 2 can put single enemy out of fight for some time while you or your allies can suck him off. The problem here is that if you have him fully modded you rarely need to cc anything in regular game content, enemies don't do much damage to you. You probably need to purposefully downgrade his build to make the content more challenging or spend a couple of hours in survival for some higher level enemies.

9 hours ago, DustyFlash said:

Nothing, he is just a blank slab of pressed sand that just sits in one spot and lives by doing absolutely nothing.

9 hours ago, DustyFlash said:

I meant that he doesn't require ANY effort to be tanky, allowing players to completely chill while being only usefull with their weapons.

It seems you are also fogetting that not everyone is a veteran with all arcanes and maxed umbral mods. Inaros is easy to mod even for a newbie, but to reach a point where you can do just nothing and still never die takes a pretty long time (arcane grace is expensive, you know). Also blame the players if they don't want to help the team and just sit there lazily shooting their guns once per minute. Technically you can sit and do nothing with all frames, it will just be a bit harder.

9 hours ago, DustyFlash said:

the only difference being that now you actually have an ability kit that does something fun instead of supporting one singular massive health bar

Well, fun is subjective, I've played inaros for a long time specifically because I could just charge my 4 for negation swarm and then just kill enemies with my weapons without bothering with some pesky ability recasting. Now that I got a little tired of that, I formaed khorra and gara and now I run and kill enemies mostly with my abilities.

One last thing I want to add: compared to many other tanks inaros doesn't need many mods to shine, so you can easily dedicate 2-3 slots for speed mods. I assume not everyone needs them, but for me it is pretty nice to move faster than normal, especially since I play mostly in solo and don't need to wait for everyone to reach the extraction. Of course you won't be as fast as nezha, but still faster than many other frames and you won't need to press buttons to be tanky.

[(XBOX)GameNerd300]

Inaros is a great frame as he is and doesn't need any reworks. if you get the augment for his 4 his tankiness becomes even more useful with his 4 allowing him to resist any status proc as long as his 4 is active. Inaros is also not for everyone, and it seems here that is the case, and that's OK.

[Shaburanigud]

If he needs a fix its these 3 below

1. Visual differences between enemies caught in his 2 & 4 (They use the same animations which is quite lame)
2. Range fix for his 3 as its range is still half of what it actually says in his ability status. And maybe some more dmg and lower cost but that's a sidenote
3. Something better to do with his Sand Shadows other than being completely useless.

And even these aren't that high of a priority. IMO I think he might get some of these updates when he gets a prime.
Also, I really don't agree with you're suggestions. Inaros is a Mummy King of Sand. And yes while he does siphon life a bit, he's more of sand and wind and immortality.
What you're suggesting rather suits a Warframe who's theme is a vampire.

[ScytodiDaedalus]

I find this rework too complex and with many unnecessary changes as to what we have now. Also, you removed his ability to heal allies, severe nerf right there.

One thing I might agree with one idea behind the rework is Devour requiring you to pull an enemy every you can even siphon it, while also being static, which can be very disruptive to even use. It'd be nice if the Siphon was based on distance to the target and you could move while on that, maybe if cast during Sandstorm it pulls it faster towards you that way it gets Devoured way faster.

[Xzorn]

I think the original intention of Sandstorm was to spread Scarab Swarm.

Unfortunately much like Zephyr's old Tornadoes it thrashes enemies around wildly instead of pulling in and clumping them together which would do a better job of spreading Scarabs to opposite sides of the battlefield. Being unable to alter the tick speed of Sandstorm via melee mods also hurts the ability and it's augment.

I'm not sure Devour will be anything but a panic button but Shadows being arbitrary unaffected by Duration is further limiting.

His 4th ability yet again is limited by a needless Range cap on it's already tiny spread radius of 5m.

If they pretty much took the dumb out of Inaros his kit would work much better. Put unaffected by X all over a kit and duh, people won't use it.