Nightwave 60 minute Kuva survival challenge

[(PSN)Spartan-Stockade]

Hello! I really enjoy the new nightwave system, and I understand its a bit of a work in progress as far as tweaks go. I have thought most of the challenges have been reasonable, and I agree on some of the challenge tweaks proposed by the community and what I've heard on Warframe streams. I also have fallen in love with this game, developers, and community. And I want this post to be a source of constructive feedback. That being said, please hear out my thoughts;

Of the challenges, probably the worst I've seen, is the "60 min survival challenges." Not because they are overly difficult. I understand having some more challenging and rewarding "acts." And I do like that, but it gets more complicated when I have to do it with a friend or clan mate, ,which I'm not that excited about in the first place, but not entirely against.

The issue comes in when the challenge has to take 60 minutes. If it was 30 mins, the issues would be lesser, and more tolerable. But at 60 mins not only is the first 20-30 mins basically just a "time sink" until higher level stuff comes, but, with a 60 minute challenge, if you have a situation like I did, where I started the survival with a friend, and 2 random squad members,  and we were probably about 30 mins in, and my friend had a disconnection. So, I finished it out just myself and the 2 randoms, and of course I only get 1 of the 2 challenges completed. So, I have to do another whole 60 minutes with friend/clan mate and hope I don't have the same issue again. 

This happened after we just failed, the 40 minute match we did just before it. (due to our particular squad composition not being perfect, and some "leech" factor as my friend called it.)  So thus far, I've spent over an hour and a half (about 100 mins) to only complete 1 of the 60 minute challenges. Presuming everything goes fine, the next time I can find another hour of time at the same time as a friend/clan mate, and I can stomach the idea of another 60 minutes run, then by the time I have the 2 challenges complete, I will have spent 2 hours and 40 minutes (160mins) the length of a pretty long movie trying to complete these 2 challenges. -And I don't have any guarantee that I won't have the same disconnection issue for my next endeavor, which could potentially lead to even more "time-sink" and honestly, frustration at this point.

In conclusion; I am fine with, and understand, the challenging part, but, if the mission was 30 minutes instead, and we failed or had a disconnection issue, as lame as it would be to start all over, it would be more tolerable of an annoyance.

And I know it would be harder to implement, but I wouldn't mind if the 30 minute mission had a higher starting level of enemies, or, complete with a certain weapon type, or something along those lines. But as it stands, with 60 minutes, it feels more like a "grindy time-dump," then a challenge, especially if you happen to have any issue, and need to start again.

Thank you very much for hearing my thoughts! -and again, overall, I love the new system, and I love this great game, and I want this post to serve as feedback, and I hope it doesn't appear as just an angry rant. (Actual honest frustration on the issue currently, but, I'm aiming for construction, not deconstruction.) -There's a cool podcast with a similar name you should check out btw! Lol 😉

Thank you! Much love! And keep being awesome! Sincerely,

-AL 🙂

Edited March 7, 2019 by (PS4)Spartan-Stockade

[V0LK]

I won't even try it. 60 minutes it way too long to be fun.

[Rawbeard]

FOMO is probably the only reason to do this challange.

[TheNamelessMist]

after 55 minutes, the oxygen drop rate goes down to zero.

DE is trolling their player base

[NezuHimeSama]

Time investment is getting to be a real problem for WF, and online games in general. Having something more casual to pick up and play was a breath of fresh air some years back, and I really miss that part of WF. It would be even moreso today, with Apex or whatever, and that other game, and Destiny, and all those other online timesinks.

It's almost like homework creep half a decade ago, where highschool students were given 2hr of homework per class, taking 7 classes a day, which are an hour each. That's 3 total hours per class, or 21 hours of schoolwork per weekday. The teachers thought it was fine because "our students are very capable and 2 hours isn't that much!" but then, every damn teacher was doing it for every damn class.

 

There is not enough time in a day. Warframe is not a job. Keep it casual.

Edited March 6, 2019 by NezuHimeSama

[(PSN)Oracle-Raven]

The challenge is too trollable.

Any malicious individual could activate a Life Support pillar within the last 10 minutes and ruin everything for everybody.

If anything, the challenge should be 60 minutes cumulatively, not in a row within a single mission. And please, for the love of everything that is good in this world, drop the "with a friend" requirements.

[(PSN)RoiyaruYuujin]

On 2019-03-06 at 5:52 PM, TheNamelessMist said:

after 55 minutes, the oxygen drop rate goes down to zero.

DE is trolling their player base

idk if you just have bad luck or what, but I didn't have single problem with life support drops. Both with Necros and without.

 

23 hours ago, (PS4)Oracle-Raven said:

The challenge is too trollable.

Any malicious individual could activate a Life Support pillar within the last 10 minutes and ruin everything for everybody.

If anything, the challenge should be 60 minutes cumulatively, not in a row within a single mission. And please, for the love of everything that is good in this world, drop the "with a friend" requirements.

I agree, the with a friend part is a bit annoying for people who play solo a lot. 60 minutes really should not be hard for most of this player base. Most players are getting to the point where they have endgame builds but never do anything remotely end game, they just like to be op in low to mid level content. This was a nice change and I really hope they continue to do these 60 minute missions if nothing else for the people who can do them and enjoy them. There is so much casual content in the game, the people who build for end game and actually want to use their end game builds should get some love too.

 

On 2019-03-06 at 6:08 PM, NezuHimeSama said:

Keep it casual.

DE hasn't gotten to where they are by keeping it casual. Yes, a majority of their player base is probably casual but unlike companies like Blizzard they actually care about their ENTIRE player base. Both the casuals(Who tend to make games dull) and those who would consider themselves more hard core players, or who are just simply better at the game then your average player. I can understand peoples frustration but as a casual, you need to come to terms that you aren't going to be able to do everything in the game. I don't by any means look down on you or anyone else for being a casual player but as soon casuals start going off and spouting that they should just keep the game casual it kills it for people who play the game looking for a challenge.

[(PSN)RoiyaruYuujin]

On 2019-03-06 at 5:19 PM, V0LK said:

I won't even try it. 60 minutes it way too long to be fun.

With the right people and team set up I think you'd be surprised just how much fun it can be. I did it twice, once as a harrow supporting a saryn which was fun. Then I reran it again with a friend as a group of four and got to use my Volt Prime finally show my friends just what kind of star Volt really is! Not to mention it was a great opportunity to get some kuva. After two runs I walked away with around 30,000 kuva. 

 

During our second run we had someone go in as an unranked Saryn because they wanted to forma the aura slot, and still had a blast. It was honestly like an extra challenge reviving him so much. This is how memories are made with friends!

Edited March 8, 2019 by (PS4)RoiyaruYuujin

[NezuHimeSama]

2 hours ago, (PS4)RoiyaruYuujin said:

idk if you just have bad luck or what, but I didn't have single problem with life support drops. Both with Necros and without.

 

I agree, the with a friend part is a bit annoying for people who play solo a lot. 60 minutes really should not be hard for most of this player base. Most players are getting to the point where they have endgame builds but never do anything remotely end game, they just like to be op in low to mid level content. This was a nice change and I really hope they continue to do these 60 minute missions if nothing else for the people who can do them and enjoy them. There is so much casual content in the game, the people who build for end game and actually want to use their end game builds should get some love too.

 

DE hasn't gotten to where they are by keeping it casual. Yes, a majority of their player base is probably casual but unlike companies like Blizzard they actually care about their ENTIRE player base. Both the casuals(Who tend to make games dull) and those who would consider themselves more hard core players, or who are just simply better at the game then your average player. I can understand peoples frustration but as a casual, you need to come to terms that you aren't going to be able to do everything in the game. I don't by any means look down on you or anyone else for being a casual player but as soon casuals start going off and spouting that they should just keep the game casual it kills it for people who play the game looking for a challenge.

My issue isn't difficulty. My issue is timesink.

If you want to play a job, go back to WOW or whatever.

[Traumtulpe]

On 2019-03-06 at 10:56 PM, (PS4)Spartan-Stockade said:

So, I finished it out just myself and the 2 randoms, and of course I only get 1 of the 2 challenges completed

You could just have asked the other 2 guys to friend you...

[Zeranov]

I can understand that a part of the community wants their reason to do longer endless runs, but I don't think a reward system like Nightwave where every source of standing counts is a good place for this, because:

1. 60 minutes is a time frame where the game is simply not stable enough to guarantee that your atempt isn't ruined by bugs (e.g. current Drahk Master disarm bug) or crashes.

2. Compared to other elite weeklys like three rounds of ESO the 60 minute requirement is way to high. 40 minutes would be more approriate.

3. Everyone who has not enough friends or clanmates for this is at a disadvantage, but this the the most manageable problem.

So, DE, please reconsider the 60 minutes. If ANYTHING goes wrong this kind of challenge really has the potential to ruin your day.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

I found the challenge to be achievable, just with an LFG group,

Tip: if you join an LFG group and the host doesn't Assign Warframes to each Tenno, get out; an uncoordinated group Will Fail.

 

That being said

60mins is hypocritical of DE, considering their recent statement of wanting to discourage hardcore endless mission marathon players in favor of casual play.

 

[PatrikHavran1026]

Im so done, the new challenges are still the same with no change.

I got  my challenges ruined because of host migration, AGAIN.

Im done with nightwave until they make more reasonable challanges.

Edited April 22, 2019 by PatrikHavran1026

[Argenex]

The drop rate of the LS packages gets horrendous even with nekros and pilferoid, after 50 minutes. Not like it used to be, now it's just very, very bad.

 

60 minutes is kinda silly, and worse when it demands a clan / friend to join.

Also, they need to rename the 40 wave defense to "Operator Nap-Time", since everyone, myself included, passes out due to 

boredom in a Defense beyond wave 5. I was yawning so hard my eyes kept tearing up and I could hardly see.

[Andy.]

Am 7.3.2019 um 00:08 schrieb NezuHimeSama:

Warframe is not a job. Keep it casual.

The majority of the playerbase who will participate in this system place challenges like "10 perfect conservation" as "Elite".

How Casual do you want this game?!

[PatrikHavran1026]

12 minutes ago, -TSA-Andy said:

The majority of the playerbase who will participate in this system place challenges like "10 perfect conservation" as "Elite".

How Casual do you want this game?!

I personally do not mind the challenges being  60 minutes however in one go it is insane.

It can all be runied by a simple bug.

I would not mind the challenges  being 120 minutes, just make them accumulate.

Edited April 22, 2019 by PatrikHavran1026

[eRager]

The worst part is for me. We managed to do it. Me and 3 randoms who added eachother as friends. But, since they changed the design of survival so that the rest of the squad can leave before you, they left when I was like 30-50 meters away from the extraction point and got into the whole host migration thing and when I finally extracted I didn't complete the "with friend" challenge... Now I have to waste another hour...

DE, please, change it to be a bit similar to how the void fissure survivals work. When a squad member leaves, add a countdown that pauses the game, let the players choose if they wanna leave with the rest of the squad. If not, it counts back and starts the game again, if you do choose to leave with them you should get teleported to them and the mission ends.

Seriously. It's so infuriating...

I like the fact that you can leave early in survival, but it needs tweaking.

[Argenex]

1 hour ago, eRager said:

The worst part is for me. We managed to do it. Me and 3 randoms who added eachother as friends. But, since they changed the design of survival so that the rest of the squad can leave before you, they left when I was like 30-50 meters away from the extraction point and got into the whole host migration thing and when I finally extracted I didn't complete the "with friend" challenge... Now I have to waste another hour...

DE, please, change it to be a bit similar to how the void fissure survivals work. When a squad member leaves, add a countdown that pauses the game, let the players choose if they wanna leave with the rest of the squad. If not, it counts back and starts the game again, if you do choose to leave with them you should get teleported to them and the mission ends.

Seriously. It's so infuriating...

I like the fact that you can leave early in survival, but it needs tweaking.

It's hilarious to me that they have literally had a solution to survival exiting since day one, because of the defense timer screen and instead, decided to do it some new way that just causes problems.

[eRager]

4 minutes ago, Argenex said:

It's hilarious to me that they have literally had a solution to survival exiting since day one, because of the defense timer screen and instead, decided to do it some new way that just causes problems.

Well, in defense it doesn't pause the game, and to have that screen up up every 5 min would be horrible!
I think it should only appear once a person exits and pause the game.

[Argenex]

Why not pause the game then like on fissures?

Edit;

Yea every 5 minutes on survival would be annoying, sorry wasn't thinking directly.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Argenex

[eRager]

11 minutes ago, Argenex said:

Why not pause the game then like on fissures?

That's exactly my point.

[(XBOX)vN o ii R z]

Just some things I wanted to point out reading through this thread, based off my own experience.

1) If someone DC's from this, they should be given the option to rejoin squad. It'll still count for them if they do. At least, it ought to, worked for me for the 40 Wave Defense one before.

2) Dunno if PC works differently, but if you just added someone to your friends list then go play the Survival immediately after, it won't count for the 'with friends' challenge. On the console version at least, you need to relaunch, or perhaps just go run something else first, before the in-game list updates your newly added friends.

3) LS drop rate does fall off after a while, but I've done this challenge solo, so it shouldn't be a problem for teams. LS drop rate is 1:1 with your kill rate, so if you're struggling to find any LS, then you're not killing them fast enough.

I do agree with the points made for rethinking the parameters for this challenge, too. I can easily do an hour myself, I've gone for 3+ a few times. Doesn't mean I necessarily want to, nor do most people who play. 30-40 minutes is just a nicer overall time for a challenge issued to the entire playerbase. The 'with friends' thing ought to just go. I prefer to just do things myself, squadding up takes too long for my taste in most situations, and if you don't already have some on standby you can play with, well, see point 2.

Hopefully we'll see some worthwhile changes with round 2 of Nightwave, but honestly, who knows?

[eRager]

9 hours ago, (XB1)o Z IE R 0 x said:

...
2) Dunno if PC works differently, but if you just added someone to your friends list then go play the Survival immediately after, it won't count for the 'with friends' challenge. On the console version at least, you need to relaunch, or perhaps just go run something else first, before the in-game list updates your newly added friends.
...

On PC you should be able to just add a person whenever, either before or in the the middle of the mission.
I've done it before.

[(XBOX)vN o ii R z]

17 hours ago, eRager said:

On PC you should be able to just add a person whenever, either before or in the the middle of the mission.
I've done it before.

Well, there's that. Tons of doods in the alliance I'm in have complained about that very thing, and we're poor ol' console plebs, but that was pretty much the conclusion we all came to. Same may apply if you just joined a clan, though I've no idea about that one.

I didn't really get the chance to experience that since the first time I tried it, I DC'd five minutes in...and with no rejoin prompt. 😓

[.Narima.]

Nekros, Trinity, GG. There is no variation its always the same c....p. They need to make us play other warframes because the enemies should get either elemental resistance or damage. But noooo.... linear game is linear.