Nightwave is not a good system.

[DroopingPuppy]

First off, I do think that everything else would be better than toxic alert system. It tries to interfere our real life, so it must be removed for good. I never, ever advocate alert system at all. It is the other side of the coin, while all the others are on the front arc. We can't live with them - either it or we are need to be perished, and both of them are not able to be coexisted at all.

 

So, back to the topic. Nightwave's concept is actually interesting, but its detail is flawed.

The most problem is weird 'tier' benefits. With this, you need to fulfill up to 30 tier in order to get all the unique benefits. And DE said that each Nightwave episodes lasts for the limited period. Are you kidding? Then we have to reach to tier 30 on the limited time or bust. It means we are have to be chaned to Warframe. I don't think that it is the freedom we want to. Even boring Thermia event would be better than that.

The worst part is there are something that only acqurable via Nightwave tier benefit. Isn't it supposed to be on the Nightwave store? You have changed daily bonus that we can pick the unique weapon/mods what we need, but why you did the folly again after fix that?

The challenge is pointless as well. Nightwave is the replacement of both alert and mission challenge, so requires to kill by specific elements or weapon type is only natural. But what about the ridiculous challenges? Say, run a 60 min Kuva Survival without pop the life support? Yes, for an ENDGAME USER I can do that, really, and it is not so difficult job if I can sustain a full 60 min on my chair. But the problems are, that's only the perspective ofthe ENDGAME USER and it requires too much time on a single game. These problems means;

• You need to clear The War Within, and also clear the Nodes through the Kuva Survival. It is not even visible for the Tennos that doesn't clears The War Within as well. Did you really want to had spoiler to the newbies? Really?
• You need to have the settings enough to survive a full 60 min. It is not that difficult for the players that already able to reach Sedna, though.
• Also, you ensures you don't have any real life problems during the run.

Not to mention about the 'small' problem, such as accidentally activates the life support ruins everything. Hell, I was actually did it once, and I am not the only player that lose everthing just because of only one miss.

So, only for the challenge it is divided to two problems:

• Only endgame users are able to access for the node, and only they are actually do that.
• Requires a full 60 minutes. No less.

DE declared that,

 

Quote

Are Nightwaves Mastery Rank locked? 
Nope! No restrictions to participating asides from having completed Vor's Prize of course. 

But it is proven false, for at least Mastery Rank 5 is required to access for The War Within, that is prerequisite for acces for Kuva Survival. Same applies to complete Sorties challenge as well.

 

Requres a full hour is an another problem. Although we sometimes made a 40 or 60min run for a survival, but basically AABC drop table allows us to only run a 20min game and extract and we will get the full benefits. Then, why we are have to back to the old Void Key era and have to be bounded to a 60min run? That's nonsense. Also, although we are want to run for a long time, but that's our invidvidual choice on each missions and we may have some reasons to extract because of the reasons caused by our real life. And the challenge totally against that.

 

Requires a friend or clan member to be functional seems disgusting as well. Then what about the newbies that doesn't have any of? Have a friend is nice, but forced have a 'friend' just sucks. When my sib(that doesn't play Warframe) heard about the Nightwave challenge that requires friend and have a long time in a single run with them, he says "So, it means you will lose a friend per the challenge, then." I am fully agreed on him. Even consider I have some friends and clan members, but I don't want to do that for it forces your friend to had a long run.

 

At least, volatility nature of Wolf Cred is fine. Else we can stack it all the time and simply buy new stuffs as soon as it is released, likewise oldbies that stacks hundreds of Nitain Extracts after some months and years after its release, not need to be bounded to the Nitain unlike newbies that thirst for it desperately. But the rest of them are just sucks.

 

In the conclusion, I think that these would be the correct solutions for current Nightwave system:

• Remove all the 'Tier' Bonus, and replace that by the 'currency' type of items such as Wolf Cred. In this way, every Tier Bonus are replaced by some of Wolf Cred, and nothing else.
  • Also move every other Tier Bonus to Nightwave store, and allow them to be buy by currency item, and ensures that these items are also available on the future Nightwave episode. If DE really want to cap the numbers of the specific items(such as Umbra Forma), then it is fine to simply limit the numbers to buy the specific item during an episode. Then, well, losing an episode means you lost a chance to buy an Umbra Forma, but it does not means you can't buy it on the each episode.
• Remove all the challenges that requires much time on a single mission, such as run a x min survival, or x round on defense.
• Remove all the challenges that requires some Mastery Rank or mid to end of the star chart - infamous Kuva Survival and Sorties. I don't like something that requires Plains and Valleys, but since both Venus and Earth are easily access so it seems fine - for now.
• Perhaps, even kill with the element seems a problem for the newcommers, for they are unlikely to have some sets of mods.

 

In short, can't we have something that both newbies and oldbies are able to enjoy alike, and can't we have something to enjoy, not annoying? Even we discard the toxic alert, we can't live better....

Edited April 29, 2019 by DroopingPuppy

[WhiteMarker]

5 minutes ago, DroopingPuppy said:

The most problem is weird 'tier' benefits. With this, you need to fulfill up to 30 tier in order to get all the unique benefits. And DE said that each Nightwave episodes lasts for the limited period. Are you kidding? Then we have to reach to tier 30 on the limited time or bust. It means we are have to be chaned to Warframe. I don't think that it is the freedom we want to

DE also said you only need about 60% of the points to get to rank 30...
Most of the challenges are pretty easy and can be done in about 2 hours, if you are trying to.
So there is really nothing wrong with the limited time.

7 minutes ago, DroopingPuppy said:

The challenge is pointless as well. Nightwave is the replacement of both alert and mission challenge, so requires to kill by specific elements or weapon type is only natural. But what about the ridiculous challenges? Say, run a 60 min Kuva Survival without pop the life support? Yes, for an ENDGAME USER I can do that, really, and it is not so difficult job if I can sustain a full 60 min on my chair. But the problems are, that's only the perspective ofthe ENDGAME USER and it requires too much time on a single game. These problems means

Seems like you didn't read the title of these challenges...
There are called Elite Challenges for a reason. There aren't meant for low level players that just started playing the game. And honestly I'm happy that DE finally stopped trying to please these new players. We had a lot of things changed in the past, because low levels couldn't do them at first...

9 minutes ago, DroopingPuppy said:

Not to mention about the 'small' problem, such as accidentally activates the life support ruins everything. Hell, I was did it accidentally once, and I am not the only player that lose everthing just because of only one miss.

I'm mean... yeah... you did fail the challenge because you made a mistake. That's how it's supposed to work.
It's really not that difficult to not activate a life support tower.
If we were talking about a major bug, then this would be valid feedback. But you are saying you made a mistake. That's on you.

11 minutes ago, DroopingPuppy said:

But it is proven false, for at least Mastery Rank 5 is required to access for The War Within, that is prerequisite for acces for Kuva Survival. Same applies to complete Sorties challenge as well.

Nothing is proven false.
The Nightwave System isn't mastery locked. And that's what the quote is telling us.
Some challenges might be locked, yes. But the system isn't.

12 minutes ago, DroopingPuppy said:

Requres a full hour is an another problem. Although we sometimes made a 40 or 60min run for a survival, but basically AABC drop table allows us to only run a 20min game and extract and we will get the full benefits. Then, why we are have to back to the old Void Key era and have to be bounded to a 60min run? That's nonsense. Also, although we are want to run for a long time, but that's our invidvidual choice on each missiosn and we may have some reasons to extract because of the reasons caused by our real life. And the challenge totally against that.

Again: ELITE challenges.
If you can't/don't want to do them, don't do them. You don't have to.

13 minutes ago, DroopingPuppy said:

Requires a friend or clan member to be functional seems disgusting as well. Then what about the newbies that doesn't have any of? Have a friend is nice, but forced have a 'friend' just sucks. When my sib(that doesn't play Warframe) heard about the Nightwave challenge that requires friend and have a long time in a single run with them, he says "So, it means you will lose a friend per the challenge, then." I am fully agreed on him. Even consider I have some friends and clan members, but I don't want to do that for it forces your friend to had a long run.

This newby has other things to worry about. They aren't supposed to do the elite challenges. If they do them, go for them. But they aren't meant to do these challenges.
And Warframe is a Coop game. It shouldn't be difficult to do those "friend/clan mate" challenges.
Just use recruit chat, ask someone, if you could run a Friend-challenge together. You make it sound as if you have to play 100 missions together before you get to be friends.

15 minutes ago, DroopingPuppy said:

In short, can't we have something that both newbies and oldbies are able to enjoy alike, and can't we have something to enjoy, not annoying? Even we discard the toxic alert, we can't live better....

But we have that. It's called Nightwave.

[Walkampf]

Wow, what a load of nonsense...

To adress just a very few points,

you don't need to do every Nightwave Challenge, around 60% is enough to complete Rank 30. So you have quite a bit of freedom to leave tasks which you can't access yet or you don't like.

And yes, new players don't have acess to Nightwave mission. So?

They don't have acess to eidolon hunts either. That's what is called progression. And it's a very normal concept in videogames.

A new Level 5 Player in world of Warcraft doesn't have acess to te latest raiding tier, for example. This is normal.

vor 13 Minuten schrieb DroopingPuppy:

It means we are have to be chaned to Warframe.

Do you mean "changed" or "chained"?

If the former, you don't make sense.

If the latter, no you aren't. The system is quite lenient. I played very casual and I managed to finish rank 30 last week with only around 3 hours per week (not per day).

 

P.S.

Please use google translate.

[krc473]

1 minute ago, Walkampf said:

you don't need to do every Nightwave Challenge, around 60% is enough to complete Rank 30.

This statement is wrong. People need to think about how illogical this is. You need about 60 - 65% of all available points. Doing 60% of the challenges will get you about halfway to rank 30.

 

I have no significant issues with the system. I can do all the challenges fairly easily. So I may not provide the best view point. I do not think any of the solutions proposed in the OP will improve the system.

• All I really want to see is each rank having NW Creds as a reward along with an actual reward. So, 15 credits per rank, plus say a catalyst or cosmetic etc.

[DroopingPuppy]

 

2 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

DE also said you only need about 60% of the points to get to rank 30...
Most of the challenges are pretty easy and can be done in about 2 hours, if you are trying to.
So there is really nothing wrong with the limited time. 

Seems like you didn't read the title of these challenges...
There are called Elite Challenges for a reason. There aren't meant for low level players that just started playing the game. And honestly I'm happy that DE finally stopped trying to please these new players. We had a lot of things changed in the past, because low levels couldn't do them at first...

I'm mean... yeah... you did fail the challenge because you made a mistake. That's how it's supposed to work.
It's really not that difficult to not activate a life support tower.
If we were talking about a major bug, then this would be valid feedback. But you are saying you made a mistake. That's on you.

Nothing is proven false.
The Nightwave System isn't mastery locked. And that's what the quote is telling us.
Some challenges might be locked, yes. But the system isn't.

Again: ELITE challenges.
If you can't/don't want to do them, don't do them. You don't have to.

This newby has other things to worry about. They aren't supposed to do the elite challenges. If they do them, go for them. But they aren't meant to do these challenges.
And Warframe is a Coop game. It shouldn't be difficult to do those "friend/clan mate" challenges.
Just use recruit chat, ask someone, if you could run a Friend-challenge together. You make it sound as if you have to play 100 missions together before you get to be friends.

But we have that. It's called Nightwave.

Well, I can do most of them quite easily, actually. But I don't make sure that most of us are able to do so easily either. Also, the problem is you need to fulfil 60% of the challenges in some months, while holds unique benefits.

Also it is false that Mastery Rank is not locked, for there are something that requires it as I said.

 

 

1 minute ago, Walkampf said:

Wow, what a load of nonsense...

To adress just a very few points,

you don't need to do every Nightwave Challenge, around 60% is enough to complete Rank 30. So you have quite a bit of freedom to leave tasks which you can't access yet or you don't like.

And yes, new players don't have acess to Nightwave mission. So?

They don't have acess to eidolon hunts either. That's what is called progression. And it's a very normal concept in videogames.

A new Level 5 Player in world of Warcraft doesn't have acess to te latest raiding tier, for example. This is normal.

Do you mean "changed" or "chained"?

If the former, you don't make sense.

If the latter, no you aren't. The system is quite lenient. I played very casual and I managed to finish rank 30 last week with only around 3 hours per week (not per day).

 

P.S.

Please use google translate.

It is latter, and is a typo.

[Cephalycion]

20 minutes ago, DroopingPuppy said:

• Remove all the challenges that requires much time on a single mission, such as run a x min survival, or x round on defense.
• Remove all the challenges that requires some Mastery Rank or mid to end of the star chart - infamous Kuva Survival and Sorties. I don't like something that requires Plains and Valleys, but since both Venus and Earth are easily access so it seems fine - for now.

Instead of removing them, reserve them for the Elite challenges. Which is what is happening right now.

[WhiteMarker]

1 minute ago, DroopingPuppy said:

Well, I can do most of them quite easily, actually. But I don't make sure that most of us are able to do so easily either. Also, the problem is you need to fulfil 60% of the challenges in some months, while holds unique benefits.

I will say it again: The system isn't meant to be a piece of cake for every player.
It's meant to be more difficult for newer players. And again, you only need 60% of the points. There is no problem in not doing some of the challenges.

2 minutes ago, DroopingPuppy said:

Also it is false that Mastery Rank is not locked, for there are something that requires it as I said.

You just don't understand the quote that you brought up.
The quote is saying that the Nightwave system in general isn't mastery locked. You don't need to be Mastery Rank 20 to start gaining Standing for Nightwave.
Some missions might be mastery locked, yes. But this isn't what the quote was talking about...

[DroopingPuppy]

1 minute ago, WhiteMarker said:

I will say it again: The system isn't meant to be a piece of cake for every player.
It's meant to be more difficult for newer players. And again, you only need 60% of the points. There is no problem in not doing some of the challenges.

You just don't understand the quote that you brought up.
The quote is saying that the Nightwave system in general isn't mastery locked. You don't need to be Mastery Rank 20 to start gaining Standing for Nightwave.
Some missions might be mastery locked, yes. But this isn't what the quote was talking about...

It is pointless. It is no more than 'all players are equal but some of them are more equal than others' for me.

[WhiteMarker]

Just now, DroopingPuppy said:

It is pointless. It is no more than 'all players are equal but some of them are more equal than others' for me.

And what's wrong with that?
If you dislike Nightwave challenges being difficult for new players, then the whole game must be changed. A new player would never be able to beat an Eidolon, or and Orb, or even a Sortie Boss.
It's the same in every game. And if it's not about items, it's about experience. If you just started playing a game, you will never be as good, or have as easy of a time, as a player that played the game for months or even years.
It's the same everywhere in life. And nothing is wrong with that.

Let's be real here: If you dislike the progression-style of the game, then this game isn't for you. It's that simple.
We should stop trying to please every last person. That's an impossible task.

[HexOmega111x]

Yep we know. The xth tread about it. Everything has been said already and like 90% of the complaints, this one is also about having to play the game and ask for an easier access to everything. 

There are few issues with the nightwave system in its actual state but what you are asking for is not to improve this feature, it is to make it more trivial. Enough of that. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by HexOmega111x

[Heidelgard]

There are ALOT of negative feedback about the actual Nightwave ... hopefully we will see some changes in the next episode ?

[Steel_Rook]

4 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

DE also said you only need about 60% of the points to get to rank 30...

Anti-life justifies my hate! Anti-life justifies my hate!

I love that people parrot this half-remembered mis-quoted statement which wasn't true in the first place and has become less true since, like it actually means anything. Especially when it's followed by "Well, you shouldn't be able to do ELITE challenges if you suck!" Yeah, the Elite Weeklies themselves constitute a little under 35% of all available standing. Of course, with the season increased to 14 weeks (because yeah, turns out people were falling behind despite all the chanting of the anti-life equation) that number's dropped even lower, but that in itself is tacit admission that the system was far too restrictive.

I get that it's en-vogue to S#&$-talk people for not being as "elite" as you, but naked pride isn't an excuse for a heavily flawed system. The OP's exaggerating, obviously, but the mere fact that these threads keep popping up ought to tell you something. And if what it's telling you is "people complain too much," then you may want to consider getting over yourself. If you'll pardon my rudeness.

Nightwave was intended to replace Alerts. We were sold on the idea that Alerts are bad because you have to either be lucky or play whenever the game said you needed to play. Nightwave was supposed to let us play at our own pace and earn the same rewards. The mere existence of "elite" challenges as a replacement of a system with none of that already fails to accomplish its stated goal. The heavy seasonal limit which was obviously too limiting despite the "ONLY 60%!!!" chant simply replaced one pressure to play on the game's schedule with another. Instead of having to wake up in the middle of the night to run a Catalyst Alert, we now need to fill a weekly quota or fall behind, potentially unrecoverably so, and we're realistically only going to see a small handful of the full inventory of the system anyway.

Snidely dismissing people for disliking the system helps nobody and only serves to shut down the conversation. I don't think that's going to work out very well.

[WhiteMarker]

6 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

I love that people parrot this half-remembered mis-quoted statement which wasn't true in the first place and has become less true since, like it actually means anything.

And what about it is mis-quoted?
What about it became less true?
One week is giving 43k standing. You need 300k for rank 30.
DE's plan was to have one season last for 10 weeks. So 430k standing from challenges.
Going by that, you need about 70% of points.
This doesn't even include a fair amount of fugitives you will encounter.
So maybe the 60% were a bit off. But not that far off, that you can say that it is really untrue.

But why am I even telling you all of this. You are clearly hating Nightwave. The wording of your post, your attidude makes it pretty clear.

[Steel_Rook]

14 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

But why am I even telling you all of this. You are clearly hating Nightwave. The wording of your post, your attidude makes it pretty clear.

Yeah, no - you're projecting pretty hard there. What I'm "hating" is people single-mindedly defending Nightwave regardless of context and shifting all blame for the flaws it obviously has onto the players playing it. Throwing around the 60% quote around like it means anything is arguing in bad faith, as far as I'm concerned. It's an off-hand quote by a developer with no context given as to what it's actually addressing or how that number was arrived at, was inaccurate when first given to us and has become even less accurate since. And yet regardless, it's been used as a cudgel to smash any criticism against Nightwave regardless of context.

It's doubly funny when you yourself use that argument out of one side of your mouth, then go on to argue how Elite Weeklies should be exclusive. Well, if players need to do ~70% of all Nightwave missions and Elite Weeklies constitute ~35% of all of them, that right there is self-contradictory. What you're in fact telling people is that not everyone SHOULD have a shot at completing the Wolf of Saturn Six unless they meet your arbitrary standard, and I fundamentally disagree with this. Furthermore, it's pretty clear DE disagree with this, as well, because they tacked on a month to the end of the Season once it became clear people were falling behind.

Hell, one of the key promises of Nightwave - at least that I got out of it - was easier access to Catalysts and Reactors. I get that these are the game's tentative grasp at P2W, which is why they're so expensive in terms of Wolf Credits. Except I've genuinely gotten more Catalyst and Reactor Blueprints off of random alerts which popped up while I was playing than I'm ever going to get out of Nightwave. Even if we ignore the high level of activity the system demands to get anything useful out of it, EVERYTHING has become substantially more expensive through it. Yes, the old system was random, but at least items weren't mutually exclusive. Getting a single Catalyst off a random reward didn't mean that I wasn't going to get virtually anything else of value for the next two weeks.

But sure, I'm irrationally hating on Nightwave and your degree in Armchair Psychology makes this apparent. Easier to just chant slogans than discuss.

[Chappie]

3 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Yeah, no - you're projecting pretty hard there. What I'm "hating" is people single-mindedly defending Nightwave regardless of context and shifting all blame for the flaws it obviously has onto the players playing it. Throwing around the 60% quote around like it means anything is arguing in bad faith, as far as I'm concerned. It's an off-hand quote by a developer with no context given as to what it's actually addressing or how that number was arrived at, was inaccurate when first given to us and has become even less accurate since. And yet regardless, it's been used as a cudgel to smash any criticism against Nightwave regardless of context.

It's doubly funny when you yourself use that argument out of one side of your mouth, then go on to argue how Elite Weeklies should be exclusive. Well, if players need to do ~70% of all Nightwave missions and Elite Weeklies constitute ~35% of all of them, that right there is self-contradictory. What you're in fact telling people is that not everyone SHOULD have a shot at completing the Wolf of Saturn Six unless they meet your arbitrary standard, and I fundamentally disagree with this. Furthermore, it's pretty clear DE disagree with this, as well, because they tacked on a month to the end of the Season once it became clear people were falling behind.

Hell, one of the key promises of Nightwave - at least that I got out of it - was easier access to Catalysts and Reactors. I get that these are the game's tentative grasp at P2W, which is why they're so expensive in terms of Wolf Credits. Except I've genuinely gotten more Catalyst and Reactor Blueprints off of random alerts which popped up while I was playing than I'm ever going to get out of Nightwave. Even if we ignore the high level of activity the system demands to get anything useful out of it, EVERYTHING has become substantially more expensive through it. Yes, the old system was random, but at least items weren't mutually exclusive. Getting a single Catalyst off a random reward didn't mean that I wasn't going to get virtually anything else of value for the next two weeks.

But sure, I'm irrationally hating on Nightwave and your degree in Armchair Psychology makes this apparent. Easier to just chant slogans than discuss.

No...you aren't being irrational...you are just being dishonest and cherry picking your arguments by ignoring key sets of information and feedback that DE has already provided.    The fact that you brought up "P2W" means you have zero chance of ever being convinced that your attitude is right regardless of evidnce; you have shown your colors.  Good luck tenno.

 

 

[Skyrage]

4 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Yeah, no - you're projecting pretty hard there. What I'm "hating" is people single-mindedly defending Nightwave regardless of context and shifting all blame for the flaws it obviously has onto the players playing it. Throwing around the 60% quote around like it means anything is arguing in bad faith, as far as I'm concerned. It's an off-hand quote by a developer with no context given as to what it's actually addressing or how that number was arrived at, was inaccurate when first given to us and has become even less accurate since. And yet regardless, it's been used as a cudgel to smash any criticism against Nightwave regardless of context.

It's doubly funny when you yourself use that argument out of one side of your mouth, then go on to argue how Elite Weeklies should be exclusive. Well, if players need to do ~70% of all Nightwave missions and Elite Weeklies constitute ~35% of all of them, that right there is self-contradictory. What you're in fact telling people is that not everyone SHOULD have a shot at completing the Wolf of Saturn Six unless they meet your arbitrary standard, and I fundamentally disagree with this. Furthermore, it's pretty clear DE disagree with this, as well, because they tacked on a month to the end of the Season once it became clear people were falling behind.

Hell, one of the key promises of Nightwave - at least that I got out of it - was easier access to Catalysts and Reactors. I get that these are the game's tentative grasp at P2W, which is why they're so expensive in terms of Wolf Credits. Except I've genuinely gotten more Catalyst and Reactor Blueprints off of random alerts which popped up while I was playing than I'm ever going to get out of Nightwave. Even if we ignore the high level of activity the system demands to get anything useful out of it, EVERYTHING has become substantially more expensive through it. Yes, the old system was random, but at least items weren't mutually exclusive. Getting a single Catalyst off a random reward didn't mean that I wasn't going to get virtually anything else of value for the next two weeks.

But sure, I'm irrationally hating on Nightwave and your degree in Armchair Psychology makes this apparent. Easier to just chant slogans than discuss.

Well, I can agree on that generally it is a lot harder to get potatoes as well as nitain. Yes, you get a 5-pack but between the hellish alerts and some full time dedication versus Nightwave, the latter comes at a huge loss overall. Alerts had 4 nitains PER DAY after all...granted, only accessible to those who sacrificed all that is called real life but still.

But, DE also said that they would tweak Nightwave - I assume the next episode will have the first set of tweaks - so I will not say anything else until whatever changes that are planned have been made. Nightwave is very far from perfect but it is still a way better system than what Alerts ever were.

[Steel_Rook]

1 hour ago, Chappie1975 said:

No...you aren't being irrational...you are just being dishonest and cherry picking your arguments by ignoring key sets of information and feedback that DE has already provided.    The fact that you brought up "P2W" means you have zero chance of ever being convinced that your attitude is right regardless of evidnce; you have shown your colors.  Good luck tenno.

So you take an argument, refuse to address it in any way, then hinge a judgement of my character on a flimsy excuse... And somehow the conclusion is that I'm dishonest. Do you ever stop to wonder if maybe fundamentalist responses like that are the reason arguments can't happen? Because look at this realistically - you've thrown a bunch of accusations at me with no recourse by which to defend myself, explain or even just elaborate. About the only option is to either try and assert what you were talking about by referencing P2W, or else start guessing as to what you might be picking up on exactly beyond the fact that you apparently just don't like me.

If I'm not with you, I'm against you. And if I'm against you, then I'm clearly dishonest and wrong and I can't be reasoned with. Because alternate interpretations and independent opinion doesn't exist. If I don't just accept the canned responses and fixed talking points around Nightwave, then I'm clearly not going to listen. Well pardon me for my audacity, but I don't see an argument in good faith here.

 

41 minutes ago, Skyrage said:

But, DE also said that they would tweak Nightwave - I assume the next episode will have the first set of tweaks - so I will not say anything else until whatever changes that are planned have been made. Nightwave is very far from perfect but it is still a way better system than what Alerts ever were.

I don't necessarily disagree with any of this. Nightwave has its benefits, but it also has a number of fundamental flaws, which DE have already been addressing even within the confines of the Wolf of Saturn Six event. A few challenges had their requirements reduced and the entire season was increased by a not-insubstantial amount. Part of the reason I take issue with people repeating the 60% mantra is - among other things - that that's already proven far too conservative. While you can argue I'm asserting, I still see the season increase as at least in part due to how far most people had progressed through Nightwave. It's the same reason the Buried Debts event ended up having to be auto-resolved, since people weren't accomplishing it as fast as was originally planned.

Every game's forums are an echo chamber, and this game is particularly susceptible to this. The forum population is by far not representative of a vertical slice of the community, so it's very easy to create the illusion of a game populated entirely by jaded vets with overpowered gear and nothing to do, such that anyone criticising can just be brushed aside as a whiner, a troll, a child or whatever other pejorative ends up being used at the time. There are fairly few aspects of Nightwave which are fundamentally wrong, most of them stemming from how close a copy it is of Fortnite's Battle Pass. I feel that discussing that in good faith is important, and slagging each other for playing the game wrong is overall detrimental to the system's future development.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Steel_Rook

[Aldain]

18 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

If I'm not with you, I'm against you. And if I'm against you, then I'm clearly dishonest and wrong and I can't be reasoned with.

Welcome to modern argumentation, where everyone who isn't exactly like you is evil and stupid and will never be anything but evil and stupid.

Scary how many people think like this these days ain't it?

Edited April 29, 2019 by Aldain

[ASHERATOR]

😉 well I for one appreciate different sides to a discussion as there usually is interesting concepts to be gained from both.  In relation to this one for me in a nutshell I liked the alerts because I could farm more resources, helmets etc faster than the event but unlike some of what was said here I do appreciate the opportunities the event gives us to work closer with members of the community to accomplish common goals.  There are a number of people even in my own clan I get along better with because of the shared experiences.  The kuva example of something that is level locked when already something that is challenging to coordinate I will not argue does not make sense to me but hour long survivals with friends you can add while in mission or go with a clan member seems like a reasonable challenge to include for the extra points awarded especially since its on a rotation.  The other mechanics like farming fugitives if you don't like that particular mission does give us ways to adjust our game play.  Does it need some tweaking yes but its definitely a viable alternative to the alerts that I was mostly ignoring before.

[DroopingPuppy]

Well, for me I am barly able to get tier 25 right now, and I had many weekly challenges through two months actually. I think that I can try tier 30 this week, though.

That said, if you can stick with Plains/Valleys you may reach to the tier 30 within some weeks even if your starting point was 1. But isn't it same as Gara farming before Fortuna with mining update? Stick with the Plains all the times for farming the minerals, days and weeks, or bust, make me set aside the plan to build her until mining update was released.

 

The problems are, you must reach to the tier 30 in order to get the benefit and it requires you to participate in months of time on the game, some of the challenge is too weird, and it is not open to everyone. Why we need to say no for someone?

[adry306]

(Sorry if something isn't well written, i'm practising my english)
When Nightwave released I loved it, now after some weeks I'm tired of it, i'm at rank 30 but i still do the missions since i want some stuff from the offerings.
Right now Nightwave has a few problems (some might think they're not problems, this is just my opinion)

First problem is that some people feel forced to play nightwave because of the rewards
"You are not forced to play the missions because you can just ignore the rewards" - The umbral forma per example, is a really good thing and nightwave is the only way to get it, no one wants to miss that thing.
The second problem is that it's a timed thing (that's why people feel forced to play nightwave)
When it ends you can't get the rewards anymore, there will be next episodes but some cosmetics and 1 umbral forma is lost forever (i'm assuming that every episode will have an umbral forma as a reward)
I saw somewhere that they want to repeat this episode in the future, but that still doesn't solve the problem because you'll have to wait a long time to get it, if there are like 3 episodes and they are cycling, that's not enough, if there's 10 it's too much, and you probably won't even be able to get the rank 1-30 rewards again, so there's a limited amount of umbral formas and the other stuff.
One of the things I and many people love in warframe is that you can do whatever you want, when you feel like it, with nightwave there's this time problem, some people can't play enough to get to that rank 30.
And there's another problem, you don't get enough wolf creds until you reach rank 30, the whole point of nightwave was to replace the old alert system, but you can't even get the alert stuff because you first need to reach rank 30

To solve these problems i think it would be a good idea to put the episodes in the codex just like quests and people could start it at anytime and complete at any time, make it so everything is available at the cred offerings (in case you didn't notice, there's like a cycle of items which you can buy, it changes every week), we should get like 5 cred offerings per rank and still get the reward itself, and after rank 30 it stays the same, 15 per rank.
And there's people complaining about the difficulty, to solve that they could add more difficulty levels (right now there are dailies, weeklies and elite weeklies, they could add more tiers to that) and add more than just 12 weeklies, something like 25, 3-5 of those would be really hard and directed at vets and hardcore players, 10 of them medium difficulty and the rest easy, that way everyone would still reach rank 30 but the hardcore players would reach it way faster than the people that can't do the harder missions.

[Casey33]

 i got what i am from night wave and i plan not to touch it till inaros prime comes out