I miss her... SO much. I'm conflicted. [SPOILERS - JOVIAN CONCORD]

[SenorClipClop]

On 2019-05-23 at 8:56 AM, Padre_Akais said:

with the blood of billions on her hands

Seems like she fits with us pretty well, eh?

#Spacemomcomehome

[Kronxito]

On 2019-05-23 at 1:16 AM, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

But when I saw your tender faces, I took mercy.

If you hear what she says just after that, this was a lie from the orokin. She didnt took any mercy, she got caught and reprogrammed with fake memories and purposes.  Our memories were truncated as well.

Everything was an illusion.  Now we both (tenno and sentients) have to find our place.  I would love removing Orokin from the system to be honest.

Edited May 25, 2019 by AnGeL_KRoM

[ChaoticEdge]

1 hour ago, Renegade343 said:

Why not both? Arrest both Umbra and us.

Kids troll bait...

[Cubewano]

19 minutes ago, AnGeL_KRoM said:

If you hear what she says just after that, this was a lie from the orokin. She didnt took any mercy, she got caught and reprogrammed with fake memories and purposes.  Our memories were truncated as well.

Everything was an illusion.  Now we both (tenno and sentients) have to find our place.  I would love removing Orokin from the system to be honest.

I mean I'm not entirely convinced everything she's saying isn't an illusion in itself, she's been relinked to a hivemind and that can do a big work-over on your perception of reality and even your own personhood, and given the head of that mind (her mother) is very explicit in how she wants her to feel about the tenno it seems all the more open to potential that this a forced/warped understanding of the situation. We've still yet to find out what exactly the Lotus helmet actually did, we've yet to find out what the energy pulse Ballas released did, we've yet to even have a private conversation with the Lotus unattached to the cult she's now drowning in. The events of this quest have always existed in this gray area of vagueness, and remains so still, which I don't think is accidental. 

[Rakosta_Kai]

5 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

Seems like she fits with us pretty well, eh?

Sure...About as well as any puppeteer fits with their puppets.

 

[SilentMobius]

On 2019-05-25 at 1:33 AM, Cpl_Ray_Person said:

There's a lot of dialog from previous quests we tend to forget when trying to parse out what's going on here.

Here's a line: "Natah was the daughter, until I destroyed her. Now I am the Lotus, now I am the mother."

Easy to dismiss as a wordy way of saying "that person is dead" in the metaphorical sense when someone wants to distance themselves from their past, and she does get touchy when Teshin calls her "Natah," except she isn't a person, she's a robot from a species of robots who are very bizarre and alien compared to what humans think of as 'normal.' She may mean it very literally, that when she chose to become the Lotus, it wasn't just choosing a new name to be known by, but literally remaking (reprogramming) herself into the different person she wanted to be. Natah and the Lotus could very well be separate separate people in many ways.

However literal it is, though, this line directly conflicts with Natah asserting that becoming a mother figure for the orphans of 10-0 was forced on her and she was fooled into thinking it was of her own free will. These ideas are mutually exclusive; one of them must be wrong. One of them may or may not be actively lying. If the Lotus is lying or wrong, then the situation is exactly what Natah says it is. If Natah is wrong, however, she may not be lying so much as she's telling her side of the story or what she's been told, and the truth is more complicated than she thinks. Her dialog in the assassination mission is very much her side of the story, and her side isn't exactly unbiased.

Here's another line, this one from Hunhow: "As I awake, so will they. They will say you are riven, and will want to reclaim you. I will not be able to stop them."

This is interesting because Hunhow demonstrates a seething hatred for the Orokin and the Tenno, and is beside himself at the knowledge that his daughter betrayed him, but 'I will not be able to stop them' heavily implies that despite the betrayal, the consequences of the Sentients taking her back are consequences he does not want to see her suffer. 'They will say you are riven,' meaning she will be judged to be broken and in need of fixing regardless of her brokenness being of her own choice.

Another important line is from the man in the wall at the end of War Within. Two of the three lines he can say depending on your sun/moon alignment suggest that he is responsible for the children gaining their void powers, instead of it being a mere side-effect of the entire ordeal. Natah is now making somewhat overt references to the man in the wall after the Lotus spent most of Chains of Harrow saying he was just a figment of the Red Veil's dogma or Rell hallucinating something that wasn't there. I don't have a real guess for where this is going, but it's interesting that the Tenno may have been empowered deliberately by a force that just so happens to be anathema to the Sentients; maybe he doesn't have random chaotic motivations at all, maybe he finds the Sentients as abhorrent as the Sentients see the Tenno and wants them destroyed.

I mean, If the Lotus persona is a combination of Natah + Fragments of Margulis. And the removal of the Helmet temporarily shocked Natah back into dominance, how would she view that? I'd say she's call it reprogramming, even in the Lotus Persona is a real thinking being, it's a change from the default Natah so it would feel like brainwashing to Natah.

If those Margulis fragments aren't gone, I'd suggest that Natah will start having some problems staying 100% Militant Sentient. I mean how do the rest of Sentient-kind view her current obsession with Sentient-Human amalgams?

[MacKerris]

She has always been your enemy and was never your mother.

[Chaemyerelis]

What do the sentients want at this point anyway, the orokin are all dead thanks to us. 

[Ephemiel]

I'm leaning more towards the "this is a slight retcon because they forgot some of the things they stated before".