My Unpopular Opinion About Trials

[(PSN)LeonidasxGGG]

Let me start by saying that I am not 'against' Trials (commonly known as "Raids" in game lingo). I do like the cooperative-coordenative side of things, and are a absolute delight to do them with friends or clanmates. Making them one of the most enjoyable modes in any game.
That said, there are a few downsides to them in Warframe that I would like to remind my fellow Tenno of why they left:
1- Rewards. You could only do them once a day with only one reward droping at each time (3 trials, 3 rewards, when they were closed).
2- Difficulty. They had none to select. There was even one that used a "cheat" to make it harder (something people now complain about Arbitrations). And the last one had a puzzle so criptic it put most players off (or at least, put them out the Golem).
3- Warframes usage. Only a hand full of them were actually useful, while others where just a nusance. Ence, this narrows down A LOT the "importance" of Warframes in game when you have about 36 to choose from.
4- Last (but certainly not least) the toxic enviroment of them. After a few people know how to do them, what Warframes to use and what the best builds were, and although some people help and didn't mind "carrying" others, this particular mode was 'infested' with GOATs that did very little to make it a good enviroment to welcome new players. And even during mission the "exchange" in textbox were sometimes times... Agressive.

IF Raids are to return, they should be included in something "bigger". Maybe something with Clan interest (I could say Kingpin, but who knows when that's gonna happen) and... maybe have somekind of 'difficulty level'. Something people could learn on their own before joinning online matchmaking. Also, the Devs mentioned something about being a "Dungeon Raid" and that did peek my interest a little, since the Sentient Fortress is comming and exploring it IS something I do like to do (even in Warframe).

That said, I am curious to see what will come, although I am not really not that hyped for their return (ence the title), and I believe that DE should probably focus their efforts on other matters... Specially now that Warframe will soon NOT be the only fish in the pond.

[If you wanna know what I'm talking about, I've put up a following post for that:
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1101711-destiny-is-going-free-to-play-what-does-it-mean-for-warframe/ ] 

 

[Lazarow]

I only ever done one raid and I hated it, there was one awesome person who directed us what to do but there were no waypoints on what to do also idk which one we were doing. I didnt like them/didnt bother doing them

[Sajochi]

I mean, valid until that tone deaf promotion of your highly laughable thread. Basically, a lot of your points will be lost to that alone. 

[DirePresent]

Just now, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

Ugh the puzzles, so stupid that God's get challenged with a stupid puzzle.. 

It's the same issue spy missions have, you can fail them just cause a player didn't even have an idea about how to solve the puzzles: it'd require the player to at least do them solo one or several times before getting into the mission  - even without having rewards, just as tutorial(wouldn't be against having some kind of punishment for failing as well to avoid trolling).

[HIGHDAMAGE]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

Ugh the puzzles, so stupid that God's get challenged with a stupid puzzle.. 

I hope the next raids will be playable solo >_> or at least open for pugs.. >___>

raids ain't meant to be playable solo that's not a raid, as for pugs u could complete the old ones even with full team of excaliburs/mags/atlas and so on., knowledge was the main requirement to archive them

Personally i have low expectations about raids 2.0 due to "casuals" complaints & dps trend over co-op

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

I loved LoR. When I had a good team, that is. The best part of it was that it made me progress way faster in the game since in the space of a month I manage to attain MR18 (the usual minimum required at the time in order to be called "experienced" in recruit), bypass the elitists and be accepted into teams even though I  had no idea how to do them in the first few times. But before my first raid I already had all the meta roles ready (so I could be picked for sure to participate) and tried to learn as much as I could. Soon enough I was the one recruiting my own teams and leading them.

The fun part? It's the exact same thing that happens now with Eidolons. So sadly it's more of a community issue. Even though raids were pretty bad as far as explaining tasks went. I hope when they return, they do so in a much more practical, interactive and user friendly way. I hope DE has learned from some other good examples in theindustry, such as Destiny which is famous for it's supposed great raids (which I never tried tbh). Let's see what happens.

Edited June 10, 2019 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[Krakovimon]

I dont really get why opening a thread to say how much you hated raids more than one year after they were officially killed, but I'll play along.

 

1-Rewards : yeah Arcane were timegated, to 3 a day which is the case for Eidolons too but more of a 30 a day kinda of situation. I dont think that timegating rare (and usefull) equipement is wrong, it's how a MMO can keep their players through content drought. We could take the example of WoW and their raids where you have a chance to get one piece of equipment per boss per difficulty every week (and that piece can even be useless). WoW has time between update, but content drought isn't something they struggle with since the replayability of their raids makes it worth for their players to do the raids over an,d over for months. (And raids are only part of what WoW has to offer).

 

2- Difficulty: even tho I have no idea what that cheat part was all about (nor did I really understood what you meant it was doing) I'd like to remind you that there was a Nightmare version of LoR, which in a way is a choice of difficulty, but even if it was a separate raid, I dont think a raid should have a lower difficulty since raids throughout the gaming community (or at least every people I know, I know that's anecdotic) is made for endgame players to reap the "best" rewards of the game.

As for Jordas puzzle I'll agree with you that the puzzle is awful at first, even worst when you understand There is 3 puzzle in it. But once you see it through a couple of time, it was as easy as the pad room in LoR. And yeah I didnt learned it alone, I had people that helped me back then.

3-Warframe usage : I'll agree with you, There was a meta, like there will always be a meta for every single multiplayer game that allow customization and different playstyle, BUT there was no frame that were mandatory in any way. There's multiple run of LoR with full Hydroid, full Rhino, full "put your favorite pre-raids removal frame here".

As of Jordas frame usage, that was litteraly a bring the frame you want raid. Some frames helped a lot like Nekros since desecrate helps with the loot, but it.

4- Toxic environment : On that one argument, it's a question of perception I guess. I have raided with the people from Quasars and even tho most of them were raiding within the clan or within their own raid group, there wasnt anything else than laughter and fun in those mission. I have raided with my own raid group( Gir8tacos, SamuraiRemix, Quillu, MariAnnette, etc.) And then again no vile sentiment were present within this group. I even discovered that raid group as they were offering to Carry someone through the raids in recruitment chat. I dont feel like this is a toxic behavior.

What I could understand is that the fact that the ones with knowledge of the raids wanted to perform in their raids and complete them as fast as possible did want New players in their squads since they already had full squads because they were parts of communities that did the raids on a daily basis would be considered as toxic. But I wouldn't agree on such things.

Raid Bus Discord even if there were cliques(which is normal since it's a natural social behavior), still tried to help new players to understand the raids.

I know I probably wont change many minds on the subject, but the real problem with the raids werent their design or the Community that was revolving around it. It was the numerous bug that kept appearing in it and the lack of indications within the raids on how they were supposed to be completed.

[(PSN)LeonidasxGGG]

2 hours ago, Sajochi said:

I mean, valid until that tone deaf promotion of your highly laughable thread. Basically, a lot of your points will be lost to that alone. 

I don't understand the comment. Please elaborate...?

20 minutes ago, --Q--Krakov said:

I dont really get why opening a thread to say how much you hated raids more than one year after they were officially killed, but I'll play along.

Because the Devs are thinking of bringing them back and I believe their work should be better spent on something else... Of course, this is just the opinion of one player but I just wanted to share my opinion with DE and see what the community thinks of it.

[Krakovimon]

il y a 19 minutes, (PS4)leonidasx666 a dit :

I don't understand the comment. Please elaborate...?

Because the Devs are thinking of bringing them back and I believe their work should be better spent on something else... Of course, this is just the opinion of one player but I just wanted to share my opinion with DE and see what the community thinks of it.

Last time they talked about it, it was a really unoptimistic "We are thinking about it" from the devs and it wont be bringing the same raids, it Will probably be a really different raids

[Kontrollo]

I mostly disagree, even if I got bored of them after bit:

1. Rewards: These Arcanes were the new big thing at the time and DE wanted to stretch that content just like they do with new things they introduce now. Nothing has really changed there.
    
2. Difficulty Selection: You could select between normal and nightmare (?) mode in the first Trial. Forgot how exactly that went.
    
3. Warframe Choice: Same as when doing Eidolon hunts. Some are better than others in certain environments, and DE doesn't have a good handle on balance, anyway.
    
4. Community: There were some annoyances, but it was not all bad. And some people actually did something about that and started the Raid Schoolbus. There's an old old thread somewhere on the forums.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Kontrollo
added categories, typo

[sleepychewbacca]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)leonidasx666 said:

Because the Devs are thinking of bringing them back and I believe their work should be better spent on something else... Of course, this is just the opinion of one player but I just wanted to share my opinion with DE and see what the community thinks of it.

A huge part of playing Trials, or Raids for me was the friends I had doing it. We'd mess about testing out weird loadouts and seeing what chaos we could pull off, like unmodded Mk-1 Bratons with the most damage, Octavia only JV, etc. Dumb builds? Yeah let's do it. 

While it wasn't everyone's cup of tea, it has been a loss in that community I used to play with. Yeah, you can say it was boring to stand on pads, and that Jordas would glitch and ruin the day for you, but it was that sense of laughs that I never found again after Raids were removed.

[Netoberg]

Another frustrated guy who couldnt do raids or find a group to play with started a raid thread, i'll skip this one.

DE should remove all dificulties of their game and keep casual brainless players active.

DE needs to make a decision real fast, should we keep investing on brainless players or should we start making a real game? Clock is ticking...