Excal Umbra and Excal Prime

[NightmareT12]

Look, this is the same as always: Since not all people own Excalibur Prime some will try their best so no one else can have the fun. If DE makes another Umbra frame you'll see the wind changing course.

Always happens.

Edited July 9, 2019 by NightmareT12

[Hayzemet]

I just want to use voidkey helmet on my excalibur umbra, it does no harm, I'm sick of DE ignoring this.

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

Umbra is umbra and prime is prime. The reason the two cannot use eachothers accessories is cut and dry as it gets. Also why would they put effort into compatibility for something less then 1% of the community will ever hope of having when that would not be profitable in any way? If you could still get Excal P sure they could do it if not for what I said at the beginning of this post but either way it is not that big a deal...

[Hayzemet]

hace 6 minutos, (XB1)Zweimander dijo:

Umbra is umbra and prime is prime. The reason the two cannot use eachothers accessories is cut and dry as it gets. Also why would they put effort into compatibility for something less then 1% of the community will ever hope of having when that would not be profitable in any way? If you could still get Excal P sure they could do it if not for what I said at the beginning of this post but either way it is not that big a deal...

What effort its the same model and rig??? The reason is stupid, If its not a big deal then don't be so bitter about it love.

[Birdframe_Prime]

27 minutes ago, Hayzemet said:

I just want to use voidkey helmet on my excalibur umbra, it does no harm, I'm sick of DE ignoring this.

DE haven't ignored this, they have actively patched Umbra so that this isn't possible and already said that Umbra is not a Prime and so does not get to use the Prime Helmet or skin.

[TaylorsContraction]

Honestly I'm okay if excal prime gets all the umbra abilities and their accounts are given 2 or 3 umbra forma should they want to mimic umbra's polarities. The only problem is this may conflict with Excel umbra prime that China has, if the same exclusivity surrounds it.

[Xaero]

5 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Especially when there was actually a brief time in Umbra's history where Excal Prime and he could actually interchange accessories and DE deliberately patched that function out.

False info. Umbra had Death Orb passive for a brief time. This was patched out.

Prime skin/helmet were never available for Umbra. In fact, Umbra's visual aspect is incomplete and forgotten. DE added new helmet, stance and changed EB model but that's it. Default helmet and body textures weren't upgraded to Sunder helmet's level. Radial Javelin still uses Exalted Prime Blade model. Weapon holsters are not adjusted. Umbra parts can't be hidden, even when you use deluxe skin.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Ksaero

[Birdframe_Prime]

21 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

False info. Umbra had Death Orb passive for a brief time. This was patched out.

Because he's not a Prime.

I may have been mistaken as to the actual patch, but the statement was made. He's not a Prime, he doesn't get Prime things. Whether I got the specifics right or not doesn't change that ruling.

Just because he uses the Excal body and skin does not mean he's ever going to get the Prime helmet or skin, any more than the default Excal will ever get the Prime helmet and skin, those things are exclusive to the Prime itself. 

[Xaero]

10 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Because he's not a Prime.

I may have been mistaken as to the actual patch, but the statement was made. He's not a Prime, he doesn't get Prime things. Whether I got the specifics right or not doesn't change that ruling.

Just because he uses the Excal body and skin does not mean he's ever going to get the Prime helmet or skin, any more than the default Excal will ever get the Prime helmet and skin, those things are exclusive to the Prime itself. 

While DE did state Umbra is not a Prime, it'd be nice if they reconsidered and made everyone benefit: Umbra gets Prime passive back (really, are non-founders not worthy of having it on Excal?), while founders gain the ability to equip Prime's visuals on Umbra.

[Atsia]

1 minute ago, Ksaero said:

While DE did state Umbra is not a Prime, it'd be nice if they reconsidered and made everyone benefit: Umbra gets Prime passive back (really, are non-founders not worthy of having it on Excal?), while founders gain the ability to equip Prime's visuals on Umbra.

At that point, Umbra then just becomes a better Prime, which DE doesn't want.

[Xaero]

Just now, Atsia said:

At that point, Umbra then just becomes a better Prime, which DE doesn't want.

Objectively - still not. Radial Howl is a bit slower than Radial Blind. Umbra passive has its downsides. And many founders already consider Umbra a better Prime, otherwise there wouldn't be so much topics about interchangeable cosmetics. Why would any founder demanding it want to lose the Prime passive while playing Umbra with Prime skin/helmet?

[Birdframe_Prime]

13 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

While DE did state Umbra is not a Prime, it'd be nice if they reconsidered and made everyone benefit

Personally I don't see how anyone benefits from DE going back on their word (and in the case of the Founders, a contract) and making exclusive items non-exclusive benefits anyone except for the people that can't take 'no' for an answer.

2 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

Radial Howl is a bit slower than Radial Blind.

Your turn for a falsehood. People already complained that Radial Howl was slower than Blind, and DE patched that one so that the activation and effects key off at the exact same time.

[Xaero]

1 minute ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Personally I don't see how anyone benefits from DE going back on their word (and in the case of the Founders, a contract) and making exclusive items non-exclusive benefits anyone except for the people that can't take 'no' for an answer.

What "exclusive items"? You mean Void Passive? How is that exclusive? Or you mean founder items? Those still could be used only by founders.

Anyways, Void Orb passive is a minor thing and doesn't really make a difference. But if Prime skin/helmet can be equipped on Umbra, it would only be fair to allow Umbra to use it.

14 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Your turn for a falsehood. People already complained that Radial Howl was slower than Blind, and DE patched that one so that the activation and effects key off at the exact same time.

Radial Blind cast time: 0.85 seconds.

Radial Howl cast time: 0.9 seconds.

[LoopStricken]

6 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Well, I for one am incredibly proud of the ethical stand DE have shown on this; Excal Prime is exclusive, they said it would be exclusive forever, not some kind of timed exclusive, and they have stuck to that for six years.

I'm actually proud to see that a developer on a free-to-play game (where it's all about getting the money in using micro-transactions) has deliberately taken one of the things that would gain them incredible amounts of money completely off the table. It makes me trust them as a company over the scumbags out there like EA and Epic. 

Ye-essss, but for those of us who HAVE him, why not allow him to become, essentially, cosmetic, when new and better versions come out, is my point.

 

6 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Especially when there was actually a brief time in Umbra's history where Excal Prime and he could actually interchange accessories and DE deliberately patched that function out.

I am positive this never happened.

[LoopStricken]

59 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

He's not a Prime, he doesn't get Prime things. Whether I got the specifics right or not doesn't change that ruling.

Just because he uses the Excal body and skin does not mean he's ever going to get the Prime helmet or skin, any more than the default Excal will ever get the Prime helmet and skin, those things are exclusive to the Prime itself. 

But because of Excalibur Prime's unique place in the hierarchy, why not make him an exception?

[Birdframe_Prime]

10 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

Radial Blind cast time: 0.85 seconds.

Radial Howl cast time: 0.9 seconds.

Nup. That's the animation, not the casting time. The time taken for the ability to take effect is the exact same amount of time.

Further than that, considering that the average human's fastest reaction time to visual stimulus takes 5x longer than that time difference you're pointing out (the auditory reaction time and physical touch time delay is still 3x longer than that difference), even the animation time is functionally the same. You might be able to detect the difference, your brain literally can't react to it fast enough for it to matter.

11 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

But if Prime skin/helmet can be equipped on Umbra, it would only be fair to allow Umbra to use it.

You're still saying 'it would only be fair' and that's not how this works. The Umbral and Prime are, and are stated to be by the creators of them, different frames. They are not interchangeable, and Umbra is not a Prime. He doesn't get anything Prime, not the passive, not the helmet or skin.

That's the exact stated reason why these things can't be swapped over, and your consistent statements ignoring that fact and saying 'well it would be fair' are not only sounding incredibly entitled, but also irrelevant in the face of facts.

Being unable to take 'no' for an answer, even though the people saying 'no' are the ones that actually set the rules in the game, is just... childish.

[Birdframe_Prime]

8 minutes ago, LoopStricken said:

But because of Excalibur Prime's unique place in the hierarchy, why not make him an exception?

Excalibur Prime is the exception by being the only exclusive Prime, the only one you can't get outside of a Founder's pack, which is now permanently unavailable.

Umbra is not unique, Umbra is given to every player as part of a quest, and is deliberately different from a Prime as well. There will be more Umbral frames, although not one for every frame, as stated by DE, and those will not be capable of using their Prime's helmets or skins either.

[LoopStricken]

Somewhat willfully ignoring my point there.

[Xaero]

2 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Nup. That's the animation, not the casting time. The time taken for the ability to take effect is the exact same amount of time.

Is it ok if I'll trust wiki on this one?

7 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

You're still saying 'it would only be fair' and that's not how this works. The Umbral and Prime are, and are stated to be by the creators of them, different frames. They are not interchangeable, and Umbra is not a Prime. He doesn't get anything Prime, not the passive, not the helmet or skin.

That's the exact stated reason why these things can't be swapped over, and your consistent statements ignoring that fact and saying 'well it would be fair' are not only sounding incredibly entitled, but also irrelevant in the face of facts.

Being unable to take 'no' for an answer, even though the people saying 'no' are the ones that actually set the rules in the game, is just... childish.

Have you heard initial DE's statement on universal Vacuum suggestion? It was "NO". For no good reason. Still, community was constantly bringing it up. Guess what happened? DE changed their mind.

Tell me, what would you personally lose if DE made Prime/Umbra cosmetics interchangeable and added Void passive to Umbra? Why are you personally so against it?

[InterrobangTF2]

I don’t really care either way if Excal Prime’s helmet can be worn on Umbra or not, but I can guarantee when the next Umbra releases suddenly players will turn around and ask DE to allow prime helmets on it.

[Xaero]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

Not this can again, it's getting really annoying and tiring.. what if mag umbra or volt umbra come out? The same thing again? Everytime?

Yes. Why not?

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

Umbra and Prime have nothing to do with each other, so they should not be able to trade neither skins nor passives. Period.

Nice argument. But if Umbra and Prime are able to trade skins and passives they will have something to do with each other.

[Birdframe_Prime]

3 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

Have you heard initial DE's statement on universal Vacuum suggestion? It was "NO". For no good reason. Still, community was constantly bringing it up. Guess what happened? DE changed their mind.

Fun fact, DE are only ever quoted as saying 'it's not on the table for discussion' and DEScott saying 'we don't want to do it, we don't think it is a good move.'

But the player base *@##$ed. So...

Yeah they put one in. A lovely 3m one. 3m. At great regret of DEScott. And the only reason he put it in was because of the actual practical problem of when you didn't have a vacuum, some items would get stuck behind the boxes you picked them up from and some items could be on a slope, where you're literally standing over them and don't pick them up because of terrain. That's the only reason we have a vacuum on our Warframes.

DE still don't want to give us universal Vacuum, we're genuinely supposed to play the game without it and Vacuum is supposed to be a bonus, a way of making things easier.

The Mod for sentinels was supposed to be the compromise, because players kept arguing for innate vacuum on all warframes, not having to equip Carrier to get it. So they put it on all Sentinels to give variety, and created Fetch for pets.

You say 'for no good reason' and that just show's a basic lack of understanding of the reality where asking for universal vacuum was 'for no good reason' by the players, and the only reason we have any semblance of it is to shut up the collective whining.

9 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

Tell me, what would you personally lose if DE made Prime/Umbra cosmetics interchangeable and added Void passive to Umbra? Why are you personally so against it?

My faith in DE's ability to keep its promises, which has held firm for five years of play.

I'm against it because they have stated 'no non-Prime can use the aspects of a Prime', and even proved it when they removed a Prime function from a frame they've stated is not a Prime and yet accidentally had that function available.

 

 

28 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

Nice argument. But if Umbra and Prime are able to trade skins and passives they will have something to do with each other.

They don't have anything to do with each other. They're not supposed to have anything to do with each other. DE have deliberately differentiated them.

[Xaero]

10 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

You say 'for no good reason' and that just show's a basic lack of understanding of the reality where asking for universal vacuum was 'for no good reason' by the players, and the only reason we have any semblance of it is to shut up the collective whining.

The good reason to have universal Vacuum is it being a quality of life addition. Would you be so kind to give a valid counter-argument?

10 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

My faith in DE's ability to keep its promises, which has held firm for five years of play.

Ok, what does it have to do with the discussed topic? I don't see anyone here asking for giving out founder items to everyone.

10 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I'm against it because they have stated 'no non-Prime can use the aspects of a Prime', and even proved it when they removed a Prime function from a frame they've stated is not a Prime and yet accidentally had that function available.

So if they state the opposite your opinion would turn the opposite as well? It's not valid then.

10 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

They don't have anything to do with each other. They're not supposed to have anything to do with each other. DE have deliberately differentiated them.

We're playing a game where almost everything is subject to change.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Ksaero

[Hayzemet]

hace 4 horas, Birdframe_Prime dijo:

Fun fact, DE are only ever quoted as saying 'it's not on the table for discussion' and DEScott saying 'we don't want to do it, we don't think it is a good move.'

But the player base *@##$ed. So...

Yeah they put one in. A lovely 3m one. 3m. At great regret of DEScott. And the only reason he put it in was because of the actual practical problem of when you didn't have a vacuum, some items would get stuck behind the boxes you picked them up from and some items could be on a slope, where you're literally standing over them and don't pick them up because of terrain. That's the only reason we have a vacuum on our Warframes.

DE still don't want to give us universal Vacuum, we're genuinely supposed to play the game without it and Vacuum is supposed to be a bonus, a way of making things easier.

The Mod for sentinels was supposed to be the compromise, because players kept arguing for innate vacuum on all warframes, not having to equip Carrier to get it. So they put it on all Sentinels to give variety, and created Fetch for pets.

You say 'for no good reason' and that just show's a basic lack of understanding of the reality where asking for universal vacuum was 'for no good reason' by the players, and the only reason we have any semblance of it is to shut up the collective whining.

My faith in DE's ability to keep its promises, which has held firm for five years of play.

I'm against it because they have stated 'no non-Prime can use the aspects of a Prime', and even proved it when they removed a Prime function from a frame they've stated is not a Prime and yet accidentally had that function available.

 

 

They don't have anything to do with each other. They're not supposed to have anything to do with each other. DE have deliberately differentiated them.

Just admit you are salty about not having Excalibur Prime man.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Hayzemet
ecalibur lol

[Krogothian]

7 hours ago, Atsia said:

And Sentients are such a niche portion of the total content in the game that even with the new war coming, having the innate effect is not enough to make it a complete upgrade. It's at best a minor advantage that base Excal and the Prime can easily work around with the main form of removing resistances, your operator (which also negates your argument about Exalted blade since going into spoiler mode doesn't stop the ability, actually an advantage it has over Umbra).

 

I'm saying that it won't happen because DE has said "Umbra is not a Prime". That means he has to deal with same limitations as every other non-prime, and thus doesn't get to use any of the Prime stuff, cosmetics and everything else.

But he really isn't, The sentient stuff is too niche to matter, and his passive can be argued to be a detriment. Nothing makes Umbra an objectively better choice when everything he does, we already did just fine before he came, and him having it innately doesn't invalidate anything completely.

 

It is when it's something that pretty much been already said no to be DE until proven otherwise.

Once again, I don't mind that Umbra is better but you're telling lies if you say that Umbra isn't just better. To be a sidegrade, Prime would have to be better at something but he's not and every time you talk that Prime is competitive is not unique to excal prime, it's literally available on every warframe even Umbra so if Umbra can do this, therefore it's not a boon to prime, it's a coping mechanism because prime is not as  good and you know it, stop lying. 

Yes, Umbra is not a prime, how does that change a skin? Umbra is not Tenno but here we are with the skin to make him look like Tenno. It's a cosmetic, not a lore or gameplay change.

Sentient stuff is niche now, but they made a new tileset and everything for New War, this make Umbra even better, he's better now FYI, it's just much less impactful.

DE hasn't said no to it, you're literally just making it up because you're upset you don't have Excal Prime and want him to be forgotten.