Buff Rejuvenation

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

Make it % based (and please, a relevant number, even 1% is better than the crap we have).

[Xzorn]

I mean there's only like 5 out of 27 Auras that are actually good. Why Rejuvenation of all things?

Brief Respite, Infested Impedance, EMP, Empowered Blades, All the Scavenger Auras, All the weapon Auras outside Steel Charge,

There's a serious level of dog droppings when it comes to our Aura options. Rejuvenation does something at least.

[Nssheepster]

Technically, some of them have potential, they're just overshadowed by "I need more capacity" Steel Charge, and "Goddang yellow health bars" Corrosive Projection. If the issues other auras addressed where actual issues, and/or more relevant than armor and capacity, they'd mostly be fine. Mostly.

Adding numbers to some of them MIGHT make them more worthwhile, but it's probably unlikely.

[TurboWonka]

Problem are not numbers, but usage is.
Most auras helps you with things you have no problems with, either it is ammo or resist to something.
There is no reason to use specific aura when you can use aura that helps you in almost any situation.
On OP's point: yes, rejuv could use % based regen.

Edited August 21, 2019 by TurboWonka

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

12 hours ago, Xzorn said:

I mean there's only like 5 out of 27 Auras that are actually good. Why Rejuvenation of all things?

Brief Respite, Infested Impedance, EMP, Empowered Blades, All the Scavenger Auras, All the weapon Auras outside Steel Charge,

There's a serious level of dog droppings when it comes to our Aura options. Rejuvenation does something at least.

And since when i said not to buff them? 

Buff them too, lol.

Edited August 21, 2019 by (XB1)XG1anBl4derX

[WellIHopeThisOneWorks]

Agree to this, but to be more specific as to why

Currently, 3 health a second is abysmal, back in the day sure, when 300 ish health was standard, it was ok, a few minutes to get your health bar back as just a base passive? that's pretty good! 

But now with Umbral vitality especially, and all the other mods like primed Vigor and Gladiator Resolve, even my Banshee is sitting on 860 HP. That's a good almost five minutes worth of time to get from 1 back to 860, so say you trigger quick thinking and try to hide and this is the only way you can regen? well good luck with that.

I know with all the other ways of reganing health now its pretty much obsolete do to that, but still having the ability to bring in some always relevent regen would be nice. Though percent seems like a bit much, just do the the possibly of having more than one of them. But still like a 0.5% at max rank or buff it up to 25 health a second, or even 50, would be nice for people that don't want to have to transfer in and out of there operator rapidly every time there health gets low.

[Xzorn]

45 minutes ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

And since when i said not to buff them? 

Buff them too, lol.

 

Oh I was just curious why you picked Rejuv out of the mix nothing more really.

You're of course right.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

4 minutes ago, WellIHopeThisOneWorks said:

Agree to this, but to be more specific as to why

Currently, 3 health a second is abysmal, back in the day sure, when 300 ish health was standard, it was ok, a few minutes to get your health bar back as just a base passive? that's pretty good! 

But now with Umbral vitality especially, and all the other mods like primed Vigor and Gladiator Resolve, even my Banshee is sitting on 860 HP. That's a good almost five minutes worth of time to get from 1 back to 860, so say you trigger quick thinking and try to hide and this is the only way you can regen? well good luck with that.

I know with all the other ways of reganing health now its pretty much obsolete do to that, but still having the ability to bring in some always relevent regen would be nice. Though percent seems like a bit much, just do the the possibly of having more than one of them. But still like a 0.5% at max rank or buff it up to 25 health a second, or even 50, would be nice for people that don't want to have to transfer in and out of there operator rapidly every time there health gets low.

25/50 health p/s lol you're nuts? It would be too much for Warframes like Chroma/Nezha/Nidus, this is between 2-3% of their health p/ second. 

1% is way better than flat values, it works the same way for all Warframes, even the ones that have stupidly high health.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

6 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

Oh I was just curious why you picked Rejuv out of the mix nothing more really.

You're of course right.

Because i don't use the others tbh (except for Physique and Steel Charge, and tbh they deserve a buff too), it's like saying "Buff/Nerf this frame" when i don't even use it, i don't know where this frame is useful in the game. Nor nothing. 

I won't ask for buffs/nerfs for things i don't use or things i don't have knowledge of.

Edited August 21, 2019 by (XB1)XG1anBl4derX

[Xzorn]

47 minutes ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

I won't ask for buffs/nerfs for things i don't use or things i don't have knowledge of.

 

Ah, fair enough. I can help out maybe...

• Weapon Aura mods: Changed to +30% Multiplicative and are additive with each other.
• Steel Charge: Down to +30% due to Multiplicative change.
• Dead Eye: Maybe leave +50% but now multiplicative or normalize to 30%.
• Infested Impedance:  Increased to 30m radius.
• Energy Siphon:  Now ramps in energy gain from 0.6 > 2.0 based on proportional energy from max. (Less in the pool = more regen)
• Rejuvenation:  Health increased from +3 to +6.
• EMP:  Accuracy Reduction -25% from -15% (maybe just change this Aura entirely)
• Scavenger Series: Consolidated to one Aura for all Ammo types.
• Shotgun Amp: +30% from +18%. (Or keep 18% and increase Damage Fall-off Distance)
• Stand United::  Now +50% Multiplicative Armor bonus from 25% additive.
• Empowered Blades:  No longer drains Shields and decreases Charge attack time with +60%Status / Status Damage. Now includes Slam Attacks.
• Brief Respite: Change it. Base Energy cost instead of modified? Also allow Over Shields or just scrap it.

Just some stuff off the top of my head though I've done the math in the past on the weapon amp series compared to CP.

Oh, almost forgot.

• Sprint Boost: Increased to 20% Multiplicative similar to Rhino's Arcane Vanguard helm.

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Xzorn

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

4 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

Ah, fair enough. I can help out maybe...

• Weapon Aura mods: Changed to +30% Multiplicative and are additive with each other.
• Steel Charge: Down to +30% due to Multiplicative change.
• Dead Eye: Maybe leave +50% but now multiplicative or normalize to 30%.
• Infested Impedance:  Increased to 30m radius.
• Energy Siphon:  Now ramps in energy gain from 0.6 > 2.0 based on proportional energy from max. (Less in the pool = more regen)
• Rejuvenation:  Health increased from +3 to +6.
• EMP:  Accuracy Reduction -25% from -15% (maybe just change this Aura entirely)
• Scavenger Series: Consolidated to one Aura for all Ammo types.
• Shotgun Amp: +30% from +18%. (Or keep 18% and increase Damage Fall-off Distance)
• Stand United::  Now +50% Multiplicative Armor bonus from 25% additive.
• Empowered Blades:  No longer drains Shields and decreases Charge attack time with +60%Status / Status Damage. Now includes Slam Attacks.
• Brief Respite: Change it. Base Energy cost instead of modified? Also allow Over Shields or just scrap it.

Just some stuff off the top of my head though I've done the math in the past on the weapon amp series compared to CP.

Energy Syphon became hella good. But Rejuvenation is still trash so i don't care, +6 is still very low, specially for tank framed that could actually need it but their health pools are way too big to have any benefit. 

1% is the perfect value, works for every warframe.

[Xzorn]

16 minutes ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

Energy Syphon became hella good. But Rejuvenation is still trash so i don't care, +6 is still very low, specially for tank framed that could actually need it but their health pools are way too big to have any benefit. 

1% is the perfect value, works for every warframe.

 

% based is tricky.

At +6 if a group ran x4 that would be +24 per second. Arcane Grace gives a 740 HP frame about 100 HP/s but it's not up 100%.

It could be more probably but a 740 Health frame would fully heal in 30 seconds at 24/s and 1% it would take 25s with x4 Auras.

They aren't too far off but it's not a big deal to me either way. I would just like to see a global Aura rework.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Xzorn

[(PSN)Quantaminum]

I use Rejuv a lot, mainly bc it's a very accessible way to recover health early game and I don't use/need other forms of health sustain, except for very specific situations, like tridolon hunting.

It would be really nice if it was 1% of you max HP, but I'm not sure DE will like it, since there are players who would actually hide for full 100 seconds to recover their health, which sounds really silly.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Quantaminum said:

I use Rejuv a lot, mainly bc it's a very accessible way to recover health early game and I don't use/need other forms of health sustain, except for very specific situations, like tridolon hunting.

It would be really nice if it was 1% of you max HP, but I'm not sure DE will like it, since there are players who would actually hide for full 100 seconds to recover their health, which sounds really silly.

I don't see any problem with it. You wouldn't be able to do it with most tanks (characters that benefit from regen) because well, they don't have invisibility. 

Also, when enemies are aware of you they become oniscient of your presence unless you're invisible. 

And Warframes that are not tanks will just die unless they have Quick Thinking, because they don't benefit from regen at all anyways.

Edited August 22, 2019 by (XB1)XG1anBl4derX

[Steel_Rook]

Honestly, I feel the biggest problem with Auras is that they're... Well, "auras" - shared with the team. It means each mod has to be balanced around having four of them, even though you're realistically almost never going to see that in-game. And when you do see that in-game, it's usually because one Aura is vastly more powerful than most of the others. I get that this is a team game, but this particular bit of teamplay design is what makes most auras pointless.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

29 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Honestly, I feel the biggest problem with Auras is that they're... Well, "auras" - shared with the team. It means each mod has to be balanced around having four of them, even though you're realistically almost never going to see that in-game. And when you do see that in-game, it's usually because one Aura is vastly more powerful than most of the others. I get that this is a team game, but this particular bit of teamplay design is what makes most auras pointless.

They definitely shouldn't stack, but they should share effects. 

That way they could slightly buff even the strongest auras, and buff a lot the weak ones like Rejuvenation/Energy Siphon/etc. 

 

[Tiltskillet]

Just now, Steel_Rook said:

Honestly, I feel the biggest problem with Auras is that they're... Well, "auras" - shared with the team. It means each mod has to be balanced around having four of them, even though you're realistically almost never going to see that in-game. And when you do see that in-game, it's usually because one Aura is vastly more powerful than most of the others. I get that this is a team game, but this particular bit of teamplay design is what makes most auras pointless.

Would be interesting if there was a reduced effect for each duplicate aura, but the base effects on most of them were made a lot stronger.  Enough so that composed teams would go out of their way to have 3 or 4 different auras.

[Xzorn]

2 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Honestly, I feel the biggest problem with Auras is that they're... Well, "auras" - shared with the team. It means each mod has to be balanced around having four of them, even though you're realistically almost never going to see that in-game. And when you do see that in-game, it's usually because one Aura is vastly more powerful than most of the others. I get that this is a team game, but this particular bit of teamplay design is what makes most auras pointless.

This is exactly true. I made a post years ago and was mocked for saying Aura polarities shouldn't be a thing because Auras are not frame customization but rather Faction and loadout customization. Years later we have Aura forma. kek to those guys. Either way though we have to consider an Aura being used x4 not just in pre-mades but in any particularly ideal mission type.

I did the math for CPx4 Vs 25-30% Multiplicative x4 Weapon amps and they ended up similar. CP still won of course but it was far closer. Then other enemies need to scale higher in raw HP but they've already done that to an extend with newer units. Vallis for example are lvl 120 with the eHP of lvl 225 Corpus. One would think Shield Disruption x4 is ideal against Corpus but it's kinda not compared to that x2 multiplier from running 4 amp mods so again we're back to dead horse of Shields needing improvements.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

28 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

This is exactly true. I made a post years ago and was mocked for saying Aura polarities shouldn't be a thing because Auras are not frame customization but rather Faction and loadout customization. Years later we have Aura forma. kek to those guys. Either way though we have to consider an Aura being used x4 not just in pre-mades but in any particularly ideal mission type.

I did the math for CPx4 Vs 25-30% Multiplicative x4 Weapon amps and they ended up similar. CP still won of course but it was far closer. Then other enemies need to scale higher in raw HP but they've already done that to an extend with newer units. Vallis for example are lvl 120 with the eHP of lvl 225 Corpus. One would think Shield Disruption x4 is ideal against Corpus but it's kinda not compared to that x2 multiplier from running 4 amp mods so again we're back to dead horse of Shields needing improvements.

I kinda know how it feels. I would still prefer if Auras where reserved for things you normally can't get with average mods like health regen/energy regen. A straight up damage reduction for example, i find it more interesting than armor for auras. Because straight reduction is hard to find on mods, and when you find it, usually it just looks very good on paper (of course i'm talking about adaptation, but no matter how much i explain it people will still think this mod is "OP"). 

In general, auras need a severe overhaul because some of them are way too good, some are just bad even with x4.

Edited August 22, 2019 by (XB1)XG1anBl4derX

[Test-995]

13 hours ago, (PS4)Quantaminum said:

I use Rejuv a lot, mainly bc it's a very accessible way to recover health early game and I don't use/need other forms of health sustain, except for very specific situations, like tridolon hunting.

It would be really nice if it was 1% of you max HP, but I'm not sure DE will like it, since there are players who would actually hide for full 100 seconds to recover their health, which sounds really silly.

But those kind of people does it even with pitiful numbers like current one.

[Steel_Rook]

17 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Would be interesting if there was a reduced effect for each duplicate aura, but the base effects on most of them were made a lot stronger.  Enough so that composed teams would go out of their way to have 3 or 4 different auras.

That's... Actually a really good idea. One Aura is pretty strong, but the bonuses from additional ones diminish the more stacks you have. I considered simply making multiple versions of the same aura mutually exclusive, but that created the redundancy problem - people are encouraged to pick an Aura they might not necessarily like, but simply because it's something others on the team AREN'T using which will better stack with the rest of the team. I suspect giving them diminishing returns at the expense of making individual auras more powerful, though, might be a good compromise.

To pull some numbers out of my ass, let's say the strength of every aura is increased by a factor of 2, but each subsequent stack only adds another 25% strength. That way, a single player would be the same as 2 players in the current system while a team of four would be worth 3.5 players. It means auras would be more powerful in smaller teams without losing much performance in a four-stack. Might make them more of practical build choice, rather than an "on paper" optimisation choice.

 

15 hours ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

I kinda know how it feels. I would still prefer if Auras where reserved for things you normally can't get with average mods like health regen/energy regen. A straight up damage reduction for example, i find it more interesting than armor for auras. Because straight reduction is hard to find on mods, and when you find it, usually it just looks very good on paper (of course i'm talking about adaptation, but no matter how much i explain it people will still think this mod is "OP"). 

That too. I'm of the opinion that Auras really shouldn't be giving us "a little bit more" of what we can already get from regular mods, because that ends up with overly-specialised builds. I agree that we should probably reserve them for otherwise unavailable things, like health/energy regen and such.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

26 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

That's... Actually a really good idea. One Aura is pretty strong, but the bonuses from additional ones diminish the more stacks you have. I considered simply making multiple versions of the same aura mutually exclusive, but that created the redundancy problem - people are encouraged to pick an Aura they might not necessarily like, but simply because it's something others on the team AREN'T using which will better stack with the rest of the team. I suspect giving them diminishing returns at the expense of making individual auras more powerful, though, might be a good compromise.

To pull some numbers out of my ass, let's say the strength of every aura is increased by a factor of 2, but each subsequent stack only adds another 25% strength. That way, a single player would be the same as 2 players in the current system while a team of four would be worth 3.5 players. It means auras would be more powerful in smaller teams without losing much performance in a four-stack. Might make them more of practical build choice, rather than an "on paper" optimisation choice.

 

That too. I'm of the opinion that Auras really shouldn't be giving us "a little bit more" of what we can already get from regular mods, because that ends up with overly-specialised builds. I agree that we should probably reserve them for otherwise unavailable things, like health/energy regen and such.

Yeah, even though, i don't think they care enough to go out of their way to fix these things, bad mods, auras, systems, etc. At best they're fixing some warframes and that's it...

[000l000]

Le 22/08/2019 à 22:29, Steel_Rook a dit :

That's... Actually a really good idea. One Aura is pretty strong, but the bonuses from additional ones diminish the more stacks you have. I considered simply making multiple versions of the same aura mutually exclusive, but that created the redundancy problem - people are encouraged to pick an Aura they might not necessarily like, but simply because it's something others on the team AREN'T using which will better stack with the rest of the team. I suspect giving them diminishing returns at the expense of making individual auras more powerful, though, might be a good compromise.

Diminishing return on auras is a bad idea cause you never know who's gearing what on most missions, plus it wouldn't be fair to punish people who are using the same mods. But something could be done about their range and thus encourage coop gameplay. Auras could have an affinity range for example.

Rejuvenation is a really useful aura since it does heal pets or objectives, which is really nice if you aren't using Vazarin or specific frames, but as OP said 3 health back is laughable for any frame and even worse on objectives with 15k HP, or pets with 2k HP. 2% or even 3% would definitely make this aura worth and at least it would scale with what it is actually healing.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

8 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

Diminishing return on auras is a bad idea cause you never know who's gearing what on most missions, plus it wouldn't be fair to punish people who are using the same mods. But something could be done about their range and thus encourage coop gameplay. Auras could have an affinity range for example.

Rejuvenation is a really useful aura since it does heal pets or objectives, which is really nice if you aren't using Vazarin or specific frames, but as OP said 3 health back is laughable for any frame and even worse on objectives with 15k HP, or pets with 2k HP. 2% or even 3% would definitely make this aura worth and at least it would scale with what it is actually healing.

Diminishing returns doesn't actually punish anyone. You'll just receive less bonus, ex: 

- 1 player with my Rejuvenation = 1% health regen for the entire party. 

- 2 players = 2%. 

- 3 players = 2,5%. 

- 4 players = 2,75%. 

 

[Steel_Rook]

7 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Diminishing return on auras is a bad idea cause you never know who's gearing what on most missions, plus it wouldn't be fair to punish people who are using the same mods. But something could be done about their range and thus encourage coop gameplay. Auras could have an affinity range for example.

The thing is, diminishing returns on auras allows their base stats to be increased without allowing their max-stacked stats to balloon out of scale. While I'm sure you can spin this as punishing players for bringing the same aura you did, I can similarly spin the current design as punishing me for NOT bringing the same aura everyone else did. When aura numbers are low, they're only ever really effective when multiple players bring them, which I personally find more restrictive.

Take Corrosive Projection, for instance. Yeah, 30% less enemy armour sounds like a lot, but that's not a lot higher than the 25% less armour you get from a single Corrosive proc. However, Corrosive Projection auras stack additively, so four of them completely remove enemy armour. Corrosive procs, meanwhile, stack multiplicatively, meaning each subsequent proc is only 75% the strength of the previous ones, and that's pretty significant. There's very little benefit to bringing a single Corrosive Projection aura, but if you can convince most or all of your team to also bring it, it basically negates the game's entire armour mechanic.

In short, I'd personally prefer auras which are worth a damn on their own but don't stack with team-mates very well, over auras with terrible stats which only really work well when you stack them. They're both limiting in their own way, but the former at least works well on its own.