Invisibility is slowly and quietly being nerfed

[BlackVortex]

6 hours ago, Xzorn said:

The game's content has always been able to get done using one frame. Even for Raids there are meme runs using all the same frame.

I personally pick mains for specific roles but even that can change with a single patch note. ie My previous pick for CC was Nyx. That's changed to Loki since her butchery. There are of course players who play one frame majority of the time. They tend to be the highly versatile ones like Octavia, Ivara, Rhino, Nidus, Loki, Nova, Nekros, Oberon, Zephyr and a few others. These are frames that can do pretty much every mission. Most importantly they scale well in every mission. Not always perfect picks but good enough.

It's only more recently DE has started to pigeon hole choices with immunity and stuff like ignoring stealth.

there are two things we are discussing here, one is if you can finish the the whole game in SOLO mode

the other is if you are able to finish the whole game in SOLO mode by using only one frame

Raids needed at least 4 people to start the game and needed at least 4 people to complete it after entering (a puzzle required 4 pads to be stepped on simultaneously)

I honestly do agree that I think almost all content can be soloed to a certain extent in the game, but I have never heard DE ever say they meant this game to be able to be completed SOLO on just one frame

[DatDarkOne]

16 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

I honestly do agree that I think almost all content can be soloed to a certain extent in the game, but I have never heard DE ever say they meant this game to be able to be completed SOLO on just one frame

DE also NEVER said that you HAD to team up with someone or switch frames in other to complete the game either.  So show me Proof where they said it.   

[BlackVortex]

2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

DE also NEVER said that you HAD to team up with someone or switch frames in other to complete the game either.  So show me Proof where they said it.   

you made the claim, the burden of proof is on your end

[Xzorn]

10 hours ago, BlackVortex said:

there are two things we are discussing here, one is if you can finish the the whole game in SOLO mode

the other is if you are able to finish the whole game in SOLO mode by using only one frame

Raids needed at least 4 people to start the game and needed at least 4 people to complete it after entering (a puzzle required 4 pads to be stepped on simultaneously)

I honestly do agree that I think almost all content can be soloed to a certain extent in the game, but I have never heard DE ever say they meant this game to be able to be completed SOLO on just one frame

 

I know but the answer to both was yes you can.

DE Steve said around 2 years ago that 34% games are Solo and just yesterday said 25% though he hasn't checked the number in a while so isn't sure. Solo play is a high consideration when they make content and I wouldn't be surprised if Eidolons were the sole reason that number dropped.

The other part was if a single frame can be used to do such a thing in all content / mission types which is also a yes as I explained not all but many frames have the versatility to perform well in all aspects of the game while also scaling into the lvl 300-400+ range.

Raids came up as some weird point of argument on frame versatility or Solo play but Raids don't exist. My point to Raids is that frame versatility had little impact and the only reason they couldn't be Solo'd was arbitrary button puzzles and busy work. Not because of difficulty, challenge or a frame's lack in performance.

[Ishredpapers]

I don't know if anybody else had this problem or has still, but after the Gauss update i've just been doing my daily Simaris scan tasks and trying to cap the daily amount possible. So i enter a capture mission with synth target in it. I picked Loki and just go around with my endless sustaining invisibility and energy siphon. I scan the first target, mind you no alerts are triggered no previous enemy awareness i am in the zone anywhere, and just before i end my scan i get a 65 points instead of 170-200 for unnoticed scan. THEN the enemy starts running towards me as if he knows im here. Just what the hell i going on im wondering. So i ended up scanning every enemy and absolutely every one of them ended doing the same thing. No alerts raised, no enemy awareness im in the mission either.

[BlackVortex]

4 hours ago, Xzorn said:

 

I know but the answer to both was yes you can.

DE Steve said around 2 years ago that 34% games are Solo and just yesterday said 25% though he hasn't checked the number in a while so isn't sure. Solo play is a high consideration when they make content and I wouldn't be surprised if Eidolons were the sole reason that number dropped.

The other part was if a single frame can be used to do such a thing in all content / mission types which is also a yes as I explained not all but many frames have the versatility to perform well in all aspects of the game while also scaling into the lvl 300-400+ range.

Raids came up as some weird point of argument on frame versatility or Solo play but Raids don't exist. My point to Raids is that frame versatility had little impact and the only reason they couldn't be Solo'd was arbitrary button puzzles and busy work. Not because of difficulty, challenge or a frame's lack in performance.

well, my point towards the other guy was more in the likes of, you can finish pretty much every content solo, but I never heard from DE's side that they made the game so that it was completely SOLO-able

also I think 90% of the players are not skilled enough to be able to solo everything

Edited August 30, 2019 by BlackVortex

[DatDarkOne]

14 hours ago, BlackVortex said:

you made the claim, the burden of proof is on your end

I don't have to prove JACK. 

 

2 hours ago, BlackVortex said:

well, my point towards the other guy was more in the likes of, you can finish pretty much every content solo, but I never heard from DE's side that they made the game so that it was completely SOLO-able

The fact that they included a solo mode and that people have completed it solo should be proof enough.  Anyone with any form of Common Sense can deduce this.  Hence my direct reply statement above. 

[(PSN)Crixus044]

Don't forget the ninja nerf to Stealth Multipliers over the years.

A while back, stealth use to activate berserker. Then that was nerfed. It use to be a total damage multiplier. It seems that TOO was nerfed.

They fixed the big where it would double and triple dip with DoT and aoe status (actually ok with that one)

But the main thng they nerfed they was unnecessary was the damage multiplier.  It use to be a standard 8x damage multiplier. Right now, stealth is additive to crit multipliers. Yes that's right, whatever you're crit multiplier is, add 7, BUT this doesn't scale with crit levels. So if you have a weapon that gets orange crits with a 4x crit multiplier, stealth will only buff your damage by 2x. (2×(4-1)+1=7. 7+7=14. 14/7=2)

On top of this, stealth multipliers are lower if your weapon isn't ranked all the way up. So an unranked melee will barely have many stealth multiplier, increasing up to +7 at rank 3p. This was clearly done to combat Adaro stealth leveling. Btw, paracesis does NOT get an increased stealth multiplier just because it has more levels, although that would be a really cool feature to add

So yes, slowly but surely, invisibility is getting nerfed

[(PSN)Crixus044]

18 hours ago, BlackVortex said:

Raids needed at least 4 people to start the game and needed at least 4 people to complete it after entering (a puzzle required 4 pads to be stepped on simultaneously)

Tell that to the 2 man LoR i did lol and Zanagoth's 2 man Jordas Verdict.

[BlackVortex]

7 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

I don't have to prove JACK. 

 

The fact that they included a solo mode and that people have completed it solo should be proof enough.  Anyone with any form of Common Sense can deduce this.  Hence my direct reply statement above. 

common sense? I call it speculation, but whatever makes you happy buddy 🙂

[BlackVortex]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Tell that to the 2 man LoR i did lol and Zanagoth's 2 man Jordas Verdict.

if you were able to start it with 2 people then clearly either it was a bug or you were exploiting/hacking xD

it's the same thing as saying you can't have more than 4 people in a normal mission, while I have been in a session once with 50-70 people inside 😆

[(PSN)Crixus044]

On 2019-08-30 at 10:44 PM, BlackVortex said:

if you were able to start it with 2 people then clearly either it was a bug or you were exploiting/hacking xD

it's the same thing as saying you can't have more than 4 people in a normal mission, while I have been in a session once with 50-70 people inside 😆

Oh no, we had 2 scrubs that committed seppuku for us and went afk. Basically i was gonna have 1 other person with me and 2 people to go afk. They dueled for it and Franco won.

[BlackVortex]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Oh no, we had 2 scrubs that committed seppuku for us and went afk. Basically i was gonna have 1 other person with me and 2 people to go afk. They dueled for it and Franco won.

how did you complete the puzzle then? or are you talking about JV?

regardless, as said, you need 4 people to be able to enter it

Edited September 1, 2019 by BlackVortex

[(PSN)Crixus044]

29 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

how did you complete the puzzle then? or are you talking about JV?

regardless, as said, you need 4 people to be able to enter it

Easy, Loki and operator with a trin

[BlackVortex]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Easy, Loki and operator with a trin

oh right, last time I did a raid was in 2015, no operators back then, so for the first few years it was not possible

[(XBOX)Phantom Clip]

Let's just say some enemies can track the transcendence (i dont know what it is called) stuff used to operate your warframe. When this happens, use a different frame for that mission type with those enemies. I want to use 1 frame for everything but then why even try other frames? I would call it an improvement, not a nerf to be tracked and attacked by bosses, mini bosses and eneimes that you can't use finshers on. 

 

[RoseKittyWitty]

Have you tried dodging? 'cause it kinda seams like you aren't taking advantage of the movement system. Why would you use ivara during the profit taker hunt anyway. Use litterally anyone else. The only useful thing I would think of is the zipline ability. But besides that. Just don't. It's not invisibility's fault that you brought a glass cannon into a fight with a giant spider that has homing missiles. 

 

On that subject it's probably detecting the Warframe energy Sig or something linked with the warframe so invisibility wouldn't really solve anything.

Edited September 4, 2019 by TrinimixStudios
I'm not done yet

[TheVinn]

On 2019-08-27 at 1:44 PM, Uhkretor said:

... I see it like it has the ability to track you through infrared or energy spectrum analysis...

After all, its a machine, on the Profit-Taker's case...

That's very nice lore-wise but in terms of gameplay, when the game developer changes the rules and does not mention it in the Release Notes, that's a big no-no and an affront to the people that have funded the game through platinum and prime purchases.

[Uhkretor]

Acceptance or deniability is subject to the person in question... I'm fully ok with it though, either way.

[TheKazz91]

So my two cents is that I don't mind if Profit Taker or some other enemy type can detect you in stealth but I do agree that it should be telegraphed to the player that is the case. Maybe they just point a big spot light or laser tracker or some other visual indicator at you that lets the player know that enemy unit can see you through stealth. 

[Imaxinacion]

Because DE #*!%ed up player scaling so hard with zenurik energy drink and pizzas that people were getting perma-invisibility and they tried to double down and failed.

 

[(XBOX)xBLADEPANTHERx]

7 hours ago, TrinimixStudios said:

Why would you use ivara during the profit taker hunt anyway. Use litterally anyone else. The only useful thing I would think of is the zipline ability. But besides that. Just don't. It's not invisibility's fault that you brought a glass cannon into a fight with a giant spider that has homing missiles. 

this is exactly my point, the entire game is literally bending towards a more tanky playstyle, meaning that frames like Ivara  and Loki are being left in the dirt, by playing a stealth frame my invisibility should provide me with an advantage, well there is obviously a reason why frames like Rhino are presented in the advertisement for profit taker because tanks are becoming the literal future of this game which means Ivara, as well as other stealth frames, are being made redundant.

if I want to play a glass cannon, the game shouldn't just go 'NO, you must play a tank frame for this fight', and don't tell me to use something like quick thinking, I tried and it did literally nothing aside from take all of my energy away from me while also downing me.

in a game that is all about 'ninjas play free' it sure isn't looking like that anymore, instead it's only about making a ton of noise and soaking up damage, which of course is destroying stealth frames and even squishy frames for that matter since enemies are somehow completely bypassing the invisibility and, due to them being designed to kill tanks, one hit me.

[RoseKittyWitty]

53 minutes ago, (XB1)xBLADEPANTHERx said:

this is exactly my point, the entire game is literally bending towards a more tanky playstyle, meaning that frames like Ivara  and Loki are being left in the dirt, by playing a stealth frame my invisibility should provide me with an advantage, well there is obviously a reason why frames like Rhino are presented in the advertisement for profit taker because tanks are becoming the literal future of this game which means Ivara, as well as other stealth frames, are being made redundant.

if I want to play a glass cannon, the game shouldn't just go 'NO, you must play a tank frame for this fight', and don't tell me to use something like quick thinking, I tried and it did literally nothing aside from take all of my energy away from me while also downing me.

in a game that is all about 'ninjas play free' it sure isn't looking like that anymore, instead it's only about making a ton of noise and soaking up damage, which of course is destroying stealth frames and even squishy frames for that matter since enemies are somehow completely bypassing the invisibility and, due to them being designed to kill tanks, one hit me.

Sorry I'm on mobile and don't feel like using the disease that is selecting text.

 

You are right. I'd love to be able to use my fun frames on fortuna but I just get swarmed and die. 

 

I'm actively trying to get ivara and would love to use her in the open world but I kinda can't since everyone thinks you have their last melon

[(XBOX)xBLADEPANTHERx]

1 minute ago, TrinimixStudios said:

Sorry I'm on mobile and don't feel like using the disease that is selecting text.

 

You are right. I'd love to be able to use my fun frames on fortuna but I just get swarmed and die. 

 

I'm actively trying to get ivara and would love to use her in the open world but I kinda can't since everyone thinks you have their last melon

I just hope that DE slows down on this tank meta and actually starts to look at the squishier frames and decide to compose content which is balanced for them.

I'm not trying to say that tanks should be punished as a result of this, I just think that there should be alternate routes for defeating profit taker so that way stealth players are still able to enjoy the endgame content while tanks are still relevant, instead all of the new content is appealing solely towards tanks and thus it is punishing stealth.

[RoseKittyWitty]

56 minutes ago, (XB1)xBLADEPANTHERx said:

ninjas play free

I'd also like to add that this season pass adds content that new players will never be able to get once the season. Ends. I would have loved it if they didn't have exclusive themes that added tedious story lines that don't matter. Along with attachments and other cosmetics that will be impossible to get letter on in case you are a casual player like myself who doesn't continuously grind for MR and just likes to enjoy the game.

I don't care what the challenge is. I'll get it done eventually without actively trying to complete them. I just don't want to fight a boss I don't care about or get other stuff I could care less about.