Make operators cooler with one simple trick!

[Birdframe_Prime]

6 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

Stopped reading here. Don't care about the rest. You're trying to speak for the devs and the rest of the forums now. I don't care if I can convince you because you're just trying to be contrarian on the back of bad reasons. Speak for yourself, and yourself only, and then we can have a discussion.

Oh, wow. Such a mature answer. Stopping reading? What a fantastic person you are. Do you want a medal?

Maybe if you'd read on you'd have seen that I already answered this point. Maybe if you'd read on you'd have seen that I did speak for myself. Maybe if you knew what an actual debate was, you wouldn't sound like a 12 year old.

Reporting what the devs have said is not speaking for them. It's relaying a situation you might not be aware of to make a standing for the debate.

And debating with us, your peers, is what a Public Forum is for. So yeah, if you can't even convince us, you really won't convince anyone who actually has any say in the situation.

[FrostDragoon]

Still trying to speak for everyone else. Talk about reading comprehension issues...

[Autongnosis]

Le 12/09/2019 à 10:04, Walkampf a dit :

My initial thought was 'Heck, that whould be OP.'

Then again, as was already pointed out, Operators, while already VERY strong, are still massivly underestimated,

So, considering this, I'm actually very much fine with the idea.

It seems that 90% of all operators are only there to profice Zenuriks Energy regen anyway. This might allow people to choose other school, if they had the ability to take the Energy regen with them to another school.

If anything the problem is that Zenurik is also one if not the best school for active operator fighting. Temporal blast is broken, so is the perk that allows electric procs in an AoE on void blast, then you get a zappy ball on dash with decent damage and CC potential, on top of high range pull and DoT on void mode... 

Let alone for the energy perk. 

 

The only school that moderately compete at fighting is Unairu because of the wisp and the dash perks making it safer to stay out and easier to kill, but even then it's iffy. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, FrostDragoon said:

Still trying to speak for everyone else. Talk about reading comprehension issues...

Still claiming that backing up an argument with basic background information is speaking for everyone else.

Must be nice in this little fantasy world you're creating for yourself.

::Edit:: Also, if you're going to make these stupid little one-liners, at least quote me, coward.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Birdframe_Prime

[Walkampf]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Autongnosis:

If anything the problem is that Zenurik is also one if not the best school for active operator fighting.

In this point, I disagree.

You are right, Zenurik is good for Operator Fighting and Unairu is close behind, but you are neglecting Naramon. Naramons Disarm/confuse blast is even stonger CC than Zenuriks. And executing Dash is one of the strongest operator moves in the whole game. What a lot of people don't realise, if you open an enemy up to finishers using Exec-Dash, enemies are still showing the finisher prompt AFTER the stun wears out.

Combine this with acranes and weapons which make use of finishers, like daggers or the Skiajati.

 

And then there is the Vazarin Operator, yeah, this version isn't a strong combatant, but he's not supposed to be. The isntant revives, the Shield-Dome and the heal-dash that makes allies invulnerable (ALSO WORKS ON DEFENSIVE TARGETS) is extremly strong.

 

The only really weak operator school is Madurai, which is supposed to be the one treu combar operator... how ironic xD

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 1 heure, Walkampf a dit :

In this point, I disagree.

You are right, Zenurik is good for Operator Fighting and Unairu is close behind, but you are neglecting Naramon. Naramons Disarm/confuse blast is even stonger CC than Zenuriks. And executing Dash is one of the strongest operator moves in the whole game. What a lot of people don't realise, if you open an enemy up to finishers using Exec-Dash, enemies are still showing the finisher prompt AFTER the stun wears out.

Combine this with acranes and weapons which make use of finishers, like daggers or the Skiajati.

 

And then there is the Vazarin Operator, yeah, this version isn't a strong combatant, but he's not supposed to be. The isntant revives, the Shield-Dome and the heal-dash that makes allies invulnerable (ALSO WORKS ON DEFENSIVE TARGETS) is extremly strong.

 

The only really weak operator school is Madurai, which is supposed to be the one treu combar operator... how ironic xD

I mean fighting while staying in operator form actually 😄 The Naramon blast is stronger CC than the Zenurik ine but Zenurik has CC built in in all of the maneuvres and a way to multiply by 5 the duration of any CC through animation slow.

 

Vaizarin is crazy good at keeping team and kuva extractors in taveuni alives tho. 

[(PSN)Double991]

You know I always thought it would be cool if when you maxed out all 5 trees, you could mix and match nodes or even waybound the warframe passives.

[Dracus_Dakkrius]

I'd go one step further. You know how the 1-4 keys in Operator mode are unused? You know how there are five Focus Schools, you use one at a time while the other four go unused? Can you see where this is going?

 

Allow the Operator to switch Focus School at will. The symbols for the four unused Focus Schools will show up as "ability" icons next to your energy bar and you select and activate them like you would an ability.

 

It would be a huge boost in versatility. Maybe even too much. I don't know. I just really want to use those 1-4 keys.

 

Alternative Suggestion: If we ever get a way to make all Warframes sentient (like Umbra), then let us use the 1-4 keys Operator mode to command them to use their Warframe abilities.

[Fleuria]

On 2019-09-12 at 7:53 AM, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

I've unlocked all waybounds except the last one from Unairu and last one from Vazarin. I only use Zenurik on a couple of my loadouts, but most people, by far, use Zenurik.

We have many reasons to use Zenurik. I use Vazarin (my initial tree of choice) and Unairu quite a lot, but I also use Zenurik quite a lot. Madurai and Naramon occasionally, also...

If nothing else, I received an overwhelming number of Zenurik lenses -- several times what I received for any other school -- and it was the first school I fully unlocked. And, it helps tap warframe powers, which really enhances game play.

However, Zenurik is the only school where I have decided to turn off abilities. The abilities which pull in and damage others during void mode do not work well in stealth missions.

But this does not mean I understand the feelings of those who object to other players using Zenurik. (And I have had comments from other players which indicated that they felt really awful because I was using Zenurik -- for example, I learned that I was not playing the game the way it was meant to be played.)

Edited September 19, 2019 by Fleuria

[Zectico]

I like this
Currently every operator is pretty much the same because of the unbeatable meta: Zenurik + Magus Repair + Magus Lockdown, with x27 amp.

Having the ability to use one skill from another tree helps diversify while keeping the operator focused in one tree. The current system is a lot like locking players into only using weapons from one faction, preventing synergies.

 

 

^{_{There's also this weird trend of posters being super defensive of their ideas and starting a fight. Just let others give feedback and chip in when you see a valuable idea, instead of treating every comment like a personal attack.}}

[FrostDragoon]

1 hour ago, Zectico said:

There's also this weird trend of posters being super defensive of their ideas and starting a fight. Just let others give feedback and chip in when you see a valuable idea, instead of treating every comment like a personal attack.

If they don't want to be treated that way, they could be less trollish in the way they make those points, but the weird trend I see is more among the white knights who act like the game is beyond improvement or criticism (not accusing you of this, btw) while speaking for the Devs and community while trying to pretend they aren't, lol.

The game got to where it is on the back of player feedback and ideas. If you have been paying attention over the last couple years, it was when we saw DE listening to it less that the community opinion of them has degraded somewhat.

Edited September 19, 2019 by FrostDragoon

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

7 hours ago, Fleuria said:

But this does not mean I understand the feelings of those who object to other players using Zenurik.

I don't object to players using Zenurik. I object to them having to use it due to a broken energy economy in this game, and I've said as much.

Putting a band-aid on it instead of fixing the problem is only going to create a new meta of (specific focus tree+energizing dash). Then you end up with the exact same issue of limited tree use. It's just going to be a different tree...with energizing dash. This ability is cute, but solves absolutely nothing and it's the same reason why DE would never let players make the often requested chimera frame that gets to pick whichever abilities they want in one frame. Because all it does is create a new meta frame where a vast majority will use the "correct" ability selections.

As I've said before, this is the exact same issue of Carrier and Itzal.

• With Carrier, they made Vacuum able to be accessed by all sentinels. Now it's just an extra mod you have to slot on all sentinels if you want it but a vast majority of people clearly wanted it which lead to the disproportionate usage of Carrier over everyone else in the first place. It just made a new mandatory mod for other sentinels. 
• With Itzal, Blink is allegedly causing the disproportionate usage (it's really not the only reason...damage/defense/support archwings can't compete with what frames can already do in open world missions, Itzal's utility is the only one that doesn't overlap in warframe ability access in the same way). Instead of making it a mandatory mod, like Vacuum, they said they're making it inherent to all archwings through dodge, but apparently a weaker blink.
  • This kind of change adds diversity, fixes the alleged problem and doesn't create artificial 'choice'. So few players would actually have a choice in the matter since the energy economy is still not fixed to begin with. Then it would never be fixed since they just went through all that work making that big band-aid with ninja turtles all over it.

The OP is only about a pretty band-aid, when adjusting the energy economy and balancing the existing focus school nodes is a far better use of the time and resources.

 

[FrostDragoon]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

I don't object to players using Zenurik. I object to them having to use it due to a broken energy economy in this game

Just felt this was relevant enough to deserve a highlight. Carry on.

[FrostDragoon]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

Putting a band-aid on it instead of fixing the problem is only going to create a new meta of (specific focus tree+energizing dash). Then you end up with the exact same issue of limited tree use. It's just going to be a different tree...with energizing dash.

...

The OP is only about a pretty band-aid, when adjusting the energy economy and balancing the existing focus school nodes is a far better use of the time and resources.

You misunderstand the intent behind it. The idea is to make operators more fun whether you choose to use Zen/Ener-Dash or not.

The perception around "everyone would just do X" isn't something I see as particularly problematic, but if it actually was any kind of issue, this suggestion at least serves to highlight it. They can fix that issue however they see fit, but I don't see that as particularly relevant to the suggestion I'm making. I want to pick a school +1 ability from a different school. That's it. Even if they completely delete Energizing Dash, I would still want this for the options it offers, so I don't appreciate your mischaracterization of it as somehow attempting to address that issue, because that was never the goal.

[Fleuria]

On 2019-09-19 at 6:40 AM, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

I don't object to players using Zenurik. I object to them having to use it due to a broken energy economy in this game, and I've said as much.

You can also use pizzas.

Or you can build for not so much power use.

Or there are a variety of other options for obtaining additional energy... I often equip characters with several of those - sometimes even for "non-power builds" because I find other features of those bits of gear to be useful.

Or you can build for high efficiency.

In other words, I have trouble calling this "broken". 

Energy is scarce unless you build for it. Zenurik just happens to be one approach that many are familiar with.