Gauss: too much constraints, too much restraints

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

You'd think gauss is designed to be a speedster to outrun his enemies

Sadly 

Gauss main problem that he's constantly trying to outrun his own kit 

You have to run to keep your battery up

Run to try and maintain redline

Run to try and maintain kinetic plating 

It's badly designed 

The efficiency is really low 

And redline's buffs is not worth the energy and effort that you go through to get to 100% when it's only a few seconds left 

I don't think DE will fix anything because they just ignore all feedback and wait 3 years or so to think about the frame

But i'm just saying gauss is not worth the effort you go through wìth his kit

[Loza03]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

You have to run to keep your battery up

Run to try and maintain redline

Run to try and maintain kinetic plating 

It's badly designed 

I disagree.

If Gauss didn't have these requirements to always be on the move, then, frankly speaking, there'd be no reason to play him like a speedster. His Kinetic plating blocks a ton of damage and his redline buffs his DPS a pretty considerable amount, so without the speed requirement there'd frankly be no reason to speed around. It's like the old joke "Stealth is optional on this mission."

If you don't need to sneak through somewhere, if you can get what you need without it... why use it? Stealth is about overcoming a stronger opponent through cunning and skill. But if you're stronger than the opponent...

It's good design for the speedster frame to have to use speed.

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

And redline's buffs is not worth the energy and effort that you go through to get to 100% when it's only a few seconds left 

Redline's buffs aren't related to that % meter.

They're purely based on battery amount, so as long as you start from full you can get max benefit out the gate.

[Genitive]

48 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

You have to run to keep your battery up

Run to try and maintain redline

Run to try and maintain kinetic plating 

It's almost as if he was made to run or something, right?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

I just suggested that Melee attacks on enemies grant battery while redline is active in the feedback thread. I think it would be a great way to help maintain battery without being forced to keep running.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

Be nice if his Mach Rush would allow him to close line all enemies in his path with his melee. Like you can’t swing but during the rush you can hit multiple enemies once. Not just knock them down. And if you get good at spamming to make him dash back and forth than you could hit them repeatedly. Maybe even stack up the combo multiplier while doing so. 

That or his Mach Rush collision force does more damage at a higher radius the longer Gauss runs before colliding. 

But that’s just me.  

[Teridax68]

See, I think it's fine, even great, that Gauss has to actually move for his abilities to work, but I can very much agree that the current implementation of his Battery is utterly horrendous, because it feels like he's constantly being limited. Here's how I'd change him in this respect:

• Remove the 10% Battery generated from casting Mach Rush, instead massively increase the rate at which he gains Battery from base distance moved.
• Have Gauss generate Battery from every enemy he collides with during Mach Rush (and perhaps have him also deal melee damage to them with the collision).
• Remove Kinetic Plating's Battery drain per second, instead increase the drain per hit received as needed.
• Remove Redline's bonus drain when below 80%, its Battery reset, and bonus counter. Instead, simply have it uncap his Battery reserves, so that he can go even further beyond beyond 100% Battery, with his Redline bonuses scaling with Battery instead of the bonus counter.

And while this may go perhaps a bit beyond scope, what could further improve him here:

• Instead of having all of Gauss's bonuses scale with Battery level, simply make them all scale with Power Strength, and then add a mechanic to Gauss's passive where he gains +X% Power Strength per % Battery level.
• Also, let Gauss reach 100% Battery as a baseline, as opposed to 80%, so that with the above it's really about exceeding his limits with Redline, rather than simply struggling to reach maximum capacity.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Teridax68

[000l000]

Le 18/09/2019 à 19:45, Loza03 a dit :

I disagree.

If Gauss didn't have these requirements to always be on the move, then, frankly speaking, there'd be no reason to play him like a speedster. His Kinetic plating blocks a ton of damage and his redline buffs his DPS a pretty considerable amount, so without the speed requirement there'd frankly be no reason to speed around. It's like the old joke "Stealth is optional on this mission."

If you don't need to sneak through somewhere, if you can get what you need without it... why use it? Stealth is about overcoming a stronger opponent through cunning and skill. But if you're stronger than the opponent...

It's good design for the speedster frame to have to use speed.

Redline's buffs aren't related to that % meter.

They're purely based on battery amount, so as long as you start from full you can get max benefit out the gate.

If you're using Kinetic plating you'll end with some terrible redline buffs since it literally depletes your battery as well as no more battery at all when it wears off. Nice design indeed.

You can't fully benefit from redline and all of its synergies as long as you aren't at 100% redline and you can't even activate this "ultimate" buff when you want. Everything is automatic and always proc at the same time. So game is basically deciding how you can play him, not you. Nice design indeed.

No reason to play him like a speedster ? His whole kit is designed to work only when he's on the move.

Feedback isn't about opinions but tbh most players who seem to like Gauss didn't really get how he's really supposed to work, it certainly doesn't help.

Edited September 19, 2019 by 000l000

[Loza03]

27 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

No reason to play him like a speedster ? His whole kit is designed to work only when he's on the move.

I feel like you misunderstood my post. Being that his battery is what makes his kit only work when on the move. If managing it wasn't important, or if it was gone, there'd be no reason for him to use speed.

32 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

If you're using Kinetic plating you'll end with some terrible redline buffs since it literally depletes your battery as well as no more battery at all when it wears off. Nice design indeed.

I've been able to keep both up fine in a pinch, and is it really bad design for a frame to be unable to acquire a large defence and offense buff easily?  And I know - lots of frames can, but any argument to that effect is Tu Quoque. Other frames having instances of poor design doesn't mean that it's good design to throw risk/reward to the wind. 

48 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

You can't fully benefit from redline and all of its synergies as long as you aren't at 100% redline and you can't even activate this "ultimate" buff when you want. 

I mean... yes you can. Like I said, his buffs and synergies aren't tied to the % counter, so you can hit the maximum values of his buffs right out the gate. You want the buff? Hit Redline. Tap Mach Rush to push over the limiter. Now you have all its synergies and buffs, and can maintain them as long as you're good at fighting on the move

53 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

Everything is automatic and always proc at the same time. So game is basically deciding how you can play him, not you. Nice design indeed.

As above: No, you get his buffs immediately, when you want.

Yes, the time to 100% is always the same, about 2/3 of its duration, but 100% redline is frankly a bonus, not the main event.

[Arcira]

And that´s the reason I dislike posts like "warframes need to be more interactive". They need to be fun to play with a reasonable amount of player input. Pressing 100 buttons per second and keep track of 10 resources while trying to perform arkward combos doesn´t make them more satisfying to play.

But this one isn´t on DE alone because people constantly pushing this ridiculous idea.

[000l000]

Il y a 22 heures, Loza03 a dit :

I feel like you misunderstood my post. Being that his battery is what makes his kit only work when on the move. If managing it wasn't important, or if it was gone, there'd be no reason for him to use speed.

I've been able to keep both up fine in a pinch, and is it really bad design for a frame to be unable to acquire a large defence and offense buff easily?  And I know - lots of frames can, but any argument to that effect is Tu Quoque. Other frames having instances of poor design doesn't mean that it's good design to throw risk/reward to the wind. 

I mean... yes you can. Like I said, his buffs and synergies aren't tied to the % counter, so you can hit the maximum values of his buffs right out the gate. You want the buff? Hit Redline. Tap Mach Rush to push over the limiter. Now you have all its synergies and buffs, and can maintain them as long as you're good at fighting on the move

As above: No, you get his buffs immediately, when you want.

No you can't sustain redline along with kinetic plating, unless no one is shooting at you. And it's even worse if you're using thermal with fire.

And no you don't get all buffs immediately, his synergies only apply at higher redline amount. If you want to be able to use kinetic or thermal without any battery cost, it only happens once during your redline period (if you can reach 100% which will never happen while using kinetic or thermal with fire) and once again, no one can decide when he'll be able to benefit from this buffs - most of the time you'll wait stupidly 40s to get enough redline and then... no more enemies, next wave etc. This is one of the poorest design ever, players should have control over their frame, not the opposite.

Are you sure you've ever played Gauss ? Or perhaps you think that spamming Mach Rush against a wall to compensate bad design is the pinnacle of fun, you'll loose way more battery with kinetic than what you can gain through Mach rush anyway. Let be serious a second. Half of his kit doesn't make any sense and no one uses it cause it can't work atm.

Edited September 20, 2019 by 000l000

[Loza03]

11 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

No you can't sustain redline along with kinetic plating, unless no one is shooting at you. And it's even worse if you're using thermal with fire.

Thermal with fire is a pretty bad ability. But need I remind you that thermal with cold exists?

And uh... no, you're wrong, it's perfectly viable, provided you keep moving. Just moving around might not be able to consistently get you to max but it does slow down the drain considerably since you're restoring part of what's lost. And as an added bonus, moving also helps control the amount of damage you take, since enemies are more likely to miss a moving target, limiting Kinetic Plating's drain as well.

12 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

And no you don't get all buffs immediately, his synergies only apply at higher redline amount. If you want to be able to use kinetic or thermal without any battery cost, it only happens once during your redline period (if you can reach 100% which will never happen while using kinetic or thermal with fire) and once again, no one can decide when he'll be able to benefit from this buffs - most of the time you'll wait stupidly 40s to get enough redline and then... no more enemies, next wave etc. This is one of the poorest design ever, players should have control over their frame, not the opposite.

No, they're based on his battery level on the gauge. They are in no way tied to his redline %, just his battery charge. His synergies apply when over the redline, aka in the part of his battery only available in redline mode. Also, Thermal cold (the more useful one when in redline) has no battery cost whatsoever, as it charges the battery.

Or, if you mean based on the battery charge, then you're still half wrong (as Gauss still gets the buffs of redline regardless of battery charge, though not as strong), and probably not managing his gauge very well, and just using his 4 whenever instead of making sure you're in a good position to take advantage of it right from the word go. If you start at his maxed gauge you can get his 4's synergies pretty much out the gate.

Sure, you benefit more when at 100% because you get a brief window where management is out of the question, but it's not a requirement by any stretch of the imagination.

17 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

Or perhaps you think that spamming Mach Rush against a wall to compensate bad design is the pinnacle of fun ? Let be serious a second. Half of his kit doesn't make any sense and no one uses it cause it can't work atm.

I'm having trouble deciphering what your point is here. You suggest that because of the battery, most of his kit is bad design. But the process of managing his kit - using Mach Rush (and cold Thermal Sunder) - is compensating for it? How so? They are just as tied into the battery system as Kinetic Shielding and Redline are.

Also, my whole point is that it's good design for the speedster frame to have a reason to always be moving. And, yes, I do find using Mach Rush fun, including slamming into walls. As it turns out, that's subjective. 

30 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

Are you sure you've ever played Gauss ?

Considering that some of what you've said is factually wrong, I feel like this appeal to authority (authority being yourself), is misplaced.

[Duality52]

5 hours ago, 000l000 said:

(if you can reach 100% which will never happen while using kinetic or thermal with fire) and once again, no one can decide when he'll be able to benefit from this buffs - most of the time you'll wait stupidly 40s to get enough redline and then... no more enemies, next wave etc.

Gauss's battery is never dependent on enemies, unlike Nidus or Baruuk's own variant. All you need to do is to keep moving with the addition of Mach Rush's reduced energy cost and Thermal Sunder's cold attack.

Kinetic Plating should never be treated as Rage by standing relatively still just to get energy; it's meant to protect Gauss during hit-and-runs and making Mach Rushing into walls more effective. Otherwise, that's one of the few ways to die as Gauss by standing still or running into something that can potentially kill you (any damage that are not part of Kinetic Plating's protection).

Redline is a bonus, not a requirement and you as the player have control over whether you want to keep the bonus or not. Again unlike Nidus, Baruuk, or any frames that uses enemies as a resource, Gauss remains independent of that.

Edited September 20, 2019 by Duality52

[vFlitz]

On 2019-09-18 at 7:45 PM, Loza03 said:

If Gauss didn't have these requirements to always be on the move, then, frankly speaking, there'd be no reason to play him like a speedster. His Kinetic plating blocks a ton of damage and his redline buffs his DPS a pretty considerable amount, so without the speed requirement there'd frankly be no reason to speed around. It's like the old joke "Stealth is optional on this mission."

If you don't need to sneak through somewhere, if you can get what you need without it... why use it? Stealth is about overcoming a stronger opponent through cunning and skill. But if you're stronger than the opponent...

It's good design for the speedster frame to have to use speed.

If the speed itself played into his abilities in some way, then maybe. As it is it's really just 'run around so abilities that are arbitrarily reliant on your battery bar have some semblance of usefulness instead of being completely worthless'. Which isn't exactly fun or rewarding.

Really, it wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem if just running around was enough to keep your battery up. And if every conceivable action didn't knock you down from sprint speed. But that isn't the case so he is forced to spam his 1 or 3. The latter is situational enough that having to cast it repeatedly for the sake of battery feels nothing short of forced.

Now, Mach Rush.. could be fun and useful despite the spamming, just not the way it is right now. The short bursts, animation and momentum cancels, ability to abruptly change direction completely - it could all be quite satisfying if weaved into traditional Warframe mobility. Except you can't exactly do that in a comfortable way when it's on a button that's so far away from all other inputs related to movement. That's terrible for a mobility skill that has to be used repeatedly to reach its full value. And nobody is going to rebind their inputs just for Gauss, so.. I still think that a neat solution here would be changing the ability to a toggle and making it so the current Mach Rush functionality goes on your slide button when the ability is active.

Anyway, Gauss might be designed for needing speed, but right now he fails at making a player want speed, or alternatively, rewarding the player adequately for fulfilling the requirements. He doesn't have a respectable baseline that can be further enheanced by playing very actively. He's only at the respectable baseline if you're already jumping through all the hoops.

[000l000]

Le 21/09/2019 à 01:58, Duality52 a dit :

Gauss's battery is never dependent on enemies, unlike Nidus or Baruuk's own variant. All you need to do is to keep moving with the addition of Mach Rush's reduced energy cost and Thermal Sunder's cold attack.

It is once you're using kinetic plating, hence using his own kit.

Edited September 22, 2019 by 000l000