Frost Rework

[----_Hayden_Tenno_----]

frost is not the problem, limbo is.

[keikogi]

46 minutes ago, --PV--HaydenTenno said:

frost is not the problem, limbo is.

I don’t really care about cataclysm being a better globe then snow globe (that’s a fundamental problem in Limbo’s design ), what I’m trying to address is freeze and ice wave are useless and his passive is nonexistent.

[Jcyrano]

23 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

But do you think DE shares that philosophy? Look at all previous Warframe reworks. They traded some (if any) effectiveness for higher versatility, interaction and, more importantly fun :3

Saryn destroy this argument, Nezha, obliterates it, Wukong annihilates it. They are fun granted that, But they are massively effective, compare to before, Effectiveness was the 1° thing in mind, Look Volt 4° ability, overhauled and now does CC huge damage it's cohesive with the kit, Pure effectiveness... I believe that if the game where not as Fast Passed as it is your 4° ability for frost, would be Nice, But then again, to fast game, to slow Ability.

[Jcyrano]

4 hours ago, keikogi said:

I don’t really care about cataclysm being a better globe then snow globe (that’s a fundamental problem in Limbo’s design ), what I’m trying to address is freeze and ice wave are useless and his passive is nonexistent.

You're not wrong there, but Limbo has no fundamental problem that we need to get into, on the important matter(FROST):
The Passive: is useless at worst, and inconsistent at best. If Frost would gain armor when he is Near Frozen enemies that would be a more consistent kit related passive and helpful for the kit.
on Freeze: I like your Idea of a bouncing Glaive, NOT THE DISGUSTING EXALTED BULLSH!T, but the bouncing glaive, that could for example: Freeze enemies affected by Cold Status. NOT EXALTED BULLSH!T.
about Ice Wave: the augment should be part of the Base ability, it would do negligible damage (FROST is NOT SARYN, deal with that) but the utility is a lot better, and the augment could do awesome things... like If enemies stays to long on the area they freeze and maybe drop a energy orb...
for the Snow Globe: again, a few seconds Damage Reduction buff if you exit the Snow Globe would be nice.
Avalanche: I think is effective as it is now, I can make way through most content and in team play it's a game changer ability.

[Jcyrano]

5 hours ago, --PV--HaydenTenno said:

frost is not the problem, limbo is.

Frost need a better passive There IS a PROBLEM THERE, also read above

[(XBOX)EPOSSTYLE]

On 2019-10-14 at 6:11 PM, keikogi said:

Cover kinda sucks especially on frost. Why you would use cover if you can just use a bunker ( snow globe ) , also freezing waste down doesn't help this skill to do something that avalanche doesn't , thats why I went with the argument effect ( the ground is covered in ice and slows incoming enemies )

I get it but the globe has it's own drawbacks of blocking bullets almost as annoying as void mans conundrum.

When he ices the ground it should last longer as well as his 2 imo. He needs more interplay/synergy it's there but not in a more utilitarian form.

Just saying he should be able to ice u six ways from Sunday, as well ember should be able to burn u six ways from Sunday...imo

 

[keikogi]

2 hours ago, (XB1)EPOSSTYLE said:

get it but the globe has it's own drawbacks of blocking bullets almost as annoying as void mans conundrum

I already gave him a smoll globe ( eximus mobile snow globe ) , like a creating cover with ice is a good idea but tectonics sucks(cover ). If it works like eletric shield it would be good but at that point I'm stealing volt's thunder.

2 hours ago, (XB1)EPOSSTYLE said:

Just saying he should be able to ice u six ways from Sunday, as well ember should be able to burn u six ways from Sunday...imo

On the resinged version of the skill there is a lot of new stuff. A glaice of true ice that seeks out enemies affected by any form of cold ( cold procs or other frost skills ) it also can create a small blizzard. Also I've added a mobility skill in the form of ice sking , also it crates frozen ground and if casted mid air it will create Bridges.

[Caelward]

Just checking, but how many here have actually developed a Frost build based entirely around his ice wave and the impedance augment? Built with full range, long duration and the ice wave impedance and you will find the ability filling an entirely different niche than avalanche or snowglobe. Avalanche is nuking and armor stripping. Snowglobe is a damage blocker.

Ice Wave Impedance is the true CC ability. You can slow huge swathes of enemies for a deliciously long time when you build with this in mind, making sniper and archer builds so much more effective. It provides a good mobile ability to team support as well.

[Atsia]

On 2019-10-18 at 11:29 PM, Caelward said:

Just checking, but how many here have actually developed a Frost build based entirely around his ice wave and the impedance augment? Built with full range, long duration and the ice wave impedance and you will find the ability filling an entirely different niche than avalanche or snowglobe. Avalanche is nuking and armor stripping. Snowglobe is a damage blocker.

Ice Wave Impedance is the true CC ability. You can slow huge swathes of enemies for a deliciously long time when you build with this in mind, making sniper and archer builds so much more effective. It provides a good mobile ability to team support as well.

My go to build for him is an Ice Wave focused one. I can lock down half a tileset and pick enemies off at my leisure, with Avalanche as an emergency button if to many mobs get around me.

[keikogi]

On 2019-10-19 at 12:29 AM, Caelward said:

Just checking, but how many here have actually developed a Frost build based entirely around his ice wave and the impedance augment? Built with full range, long duration and the ice wave impedance and you will find the ability filling an entirely different niche than avalanche or snowglobe. Avalanche is nuking and armor stripping. Snowglobe is a damage blocker.

Ice Wave Impedance is the true CC ability. You can slow huge swathes of enemies for a deliciously long time when you build with this in mind, making sniper and archer builds so much more effective. It provides a good mobile ability to team support as well.

That is about half of the point of this topic , ice wave impedance is an amazing area denial cc. But ice wave itself kinda sucks. If it was part of the ability by the default ice wave would be a good skill.

[(XBOX)EPOSSTYLE]

On 2019-10-16 at 8:13 PM, keikogi said:

I already gave him a smoll globe ( eximus mobile snow globe ) , like a creating cover with ice is a good idea but tectonics sucks(cover ). If it works like eletric shield it would be good but at that point I'm stealing volt's thunder.

On the resinged version of the skill there is a lot of new stuff. A glaice of true ice that seeks out enemies affected by any form of cold ( cold procs or other frost skills ) it also can create a small blizzard. Also I've added a mobility skill in the form of ice sking , also it crates frozen ground and if casted mid air it will create Bridges.

You've created iceman...while I have no problem with it and condone it,  marvel might think differently. 

[keikogi]

53 minutes ago, (XB1)EPOSSTYLE said:

You've created iceman...while I have no problem with it and condone it,  marvel might think differently.

I know Ice man can crete a bouncing Ice Glaive but I doubt he has ever done it. About the Ice skating , well ice skating is probably the third most common ice based power ( subzero does it , frozene , captain cold , white album jojo ...) right behind freezing stuff and ice constructs. Also you can't sue people over copying powers of super heroes

For example , marvel created a thing called hyperion that is literally same power set and back history as superman and DC can't sue over it.

Edited October 21, 2019 by keikogi

[Caelward]

14 hours ago, keikogi said:

That is about half of the point of this topic , ice wave impedance is an amazing area denial cc. But ice wave itself kinda sucks. If it was part of the ability by the default ice wave would be a good skill.

The problem here is that Frost is so malleable with so many powerful builds that he doesn't have much power budget left over. Considering my favorite frame is Zephyr, I have some opinions on just how much 'better' some frames could be. An opinion DE doesn't share.

[keikogi]

15 hours ago, Caelward said:

The problem here is that Frost is so malleable with so many powerful builds

He can't have more than 5 builds because he only has 2 worth while and 3 decent  arguments. And let me give you a break down. These builds aren't particularly amazing either 

Snow globe build - used to be the go two defensive skill on the game , now limbo cataclims outclases it as absolut defense and gara can replace frost while being more tanky and providing the entire squad powerfull damage reduction 

Avalanche build - the cc is not impresive because the cast time is long and the effect does not linger ( ot will not cc new enemies after the cast animation finishes ).

Icewave inpedance - decent area denial but utimately heavily outclased by slownova. Also has downside of making your snowglobe to big.

Ice avalanche- decent way to give 4 S#&$ty iron skins. But why would I use this when gara gives 90% damage reduction without an argument and using just 30% power stengh.

Freeze force- ice damage sucks ( because it is good agaist shields and shields suck ) . I can get better results out of any other elemental damage arguments.

The only game mode frosts is really good at is escavation because he can place mutiple globes while gara and limbo can't. But that is not a excuse to never buff him. Both his 1 and 2 are useless. He is not particularly tanky outside his safe space and can't deal that much damage. I see a lot of reason to buff him. Why DE does do that ? 

I don't know , sometimes I just think they have favorite ( nidus and octavia ) and frames they dont like will stay on the S#&$ter unless there is a community outcry 

15 hours ago, Caelward said:

Considering my favorite frame is Zephyr, I have some opinions on just how much 'better' some frames could be. An opinion DE doesn't share

About zephyr I SHARE YOUR PAIN. I used to main her before parkour 2.0. I think she still is my most played frame ( around 20% of the play time ) and her "rework " was dread full. Why even bother to rework a frame if you are going to half as this much. The charged 1 is probably the stupidiest desing I've ever seen on a video game. I would have been happier if they just took the Atlas prime aprouch and gave her 500 base shield so her shields would be able to withstand the odd hit going through turbulence.

You could achive the same effect on a superior way by " casting Airbrust mid air resets your aimglide duration and reduces gravity during aimglide". This way the effect would blend in the current parkour system instead of sticking out like a sore thumb.

Also posting reworks here is more of a thought expirimente combined with English practice. If I as trying to reach DE I would be using memes on reddit or trying to convince a youtuber. These methods are far more effective at being noticed by DE.

Edited October 22, 2019 by keikogi

[ES-Flinter]

Am 14.10.2019 um 16:19 schrieb keikogi:

Frost used to be the king of defense missions. Over time more ways to defend appeared on the game and frost, frost isn’t even the best option for defense anymore. So, thought of a rework to improve his ability and give him better defense capabilities and more overall uses for his skills. I don’t think his 3 and 4 need changes but his passive, 1 and 2 really need some help.

After receiving some feedback I’ve noticed some people are fine with really small changes just to bring up these skills, other people want to redesign it from the ground up, so the skill is more versatile and fun. So, I’ve decided to include both a conservative update and complete redesign as an alternative (under spoiler tabs) 
 

Passive

It is bad, you shouldn’t expose yourself to melee damage, and since the passive has 10% chance of procing it is not likely to protect frost from melee damage.

Passive 2.0  

Enemies on a 30 meters radius from Frost are affected by his chilling presence, the effect is stronger the closer the enemies get from Frost.

30 m- 5 % slow

20 m- 10 % slow

10 m- 15 % slow

5 m-30 % slow

 

1. Freeze (Old)

This skill is useless, why single target CC even exists in this game if any enemy worthy of single target crow control is immune to Crow control. Furthermore, the small ice path it leaves is a joke.

1. Ice lance (Update) 

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Launches a targeted projectile, this projectile will freeze any enemies in contact with it. This projectile has unlimited punch trough against enemies but will stop on contact with wall or ground leaving an ice patch. Enemies frozen by this skill will shatter (they die) upon losing half of their health

1.True Ice Glaive ( Redesign )

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Tap

Frost launches a glaive of true ice. Upon contact with an enemy this glaive will freeze this enemy for 15 seconds ( if this enemy was already frozen by avalanche the avalanche freeze duration will be extende by 15 seconds ). Enemies frozen by this glaive will shatter( they just die ) if they lose half of their health while frozen. This glaive will has unlimited bounces but only bounces to enemies affected by cold procs or affected by any other frost skill ( ice wave, snow globe or avalanche). Upon returning to frost , frost gains 7 energy per enemy hit by this glaive.

Charge 

Infuses the glaive with enemy , upon contact with the first enemy or ground. The glaive will stop on that place and start spining faster. The glaive create a small blizzard aroud itself ( this just a copy of zenistar disk but it deal cold damage ). Recasting this skill will recall the glaive and once again Frost gains 7 energy per enemy hit by this attack ). If an enemy dies inside this blizzard it will have its damage incresed by a portions of that enemy health.

Note: only bounces if there are valid targets(affected by cold procs or other frost skills) within reach.

 

2.Ice Wave (Old) 

This skill suffers of redundancy. Why use Ice wave for CC when you can just use avalanche instead. This skill needs a new role.

2. Ice Wave 2.0 (Update) 

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Just make Ice wave impedance argument the default skill. increased range and duration. Add , Frost can quickly slide over Frozen ground but will walk normally over it.

Note: this way Ice wave is about area denial and Avalanche about AOE CC.

Synergy^TM

Casting Ice lance on an enemy slowed by Ice Wave will freeze all enemies slowed by this Ice Wave.

 

2. Ice Wave 2.0 (Redesign) 

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Tap

The same as old Ice wave but Ice wave impedance argument is part of the default skill. Increased range and duration. Add, Frost can quickly slide over Frozen ground but will walk normally over it.

Hold

Frost Freezes the ground in front of himself and quickly slides over it. Works like Gauss’s 1 but it slower and leaves Frozen Ground Behind.  Something like this

Note: you can cast this skill mid air and this will result on frost creating a ice path on middle of the air, allies can walk of this frozen path.

 

3. Snow Globe (Old)

This skill is good, I will add a new function because I want Frost to able to safely leave snow globe.

3. Snow Globe 2.0 (Update)

Tap

Same as it is now

Hold

Create a Small Snow globe around frost, this glove will move with frost.

 

4. Avalanche

Fine as it is now.

 

What do you think of these changes ?

I'm not a frost main, but

[keikogi]

3 hours ago, ES-Flinter said:

I'm not a frost main, but

Thank you , I am not a Frost main anymore (I was years ago ) but Frost prime was my first prime.

I wish his 1 and 2 were better to round out his kit, that's why I created this post.

[LightNBright]

i think its good bro good ideas

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

On 2019-10-14 at 11:36 AM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Gara. Mass Vitrify is just a better Snowglobe and she has incredible damage potential and far better tanking.

Yes true. Id argue that snowglobe is still better in a few ways from temp invulnerability to protecting you from all angle, but damage and tanking he is certainly lacking in. 

[(XBOX)Lmacncheese]

Always wanted for frost to have a flash freeze or a iceman ice beam for his 1 itd work like atlas petrify but instant  to

[tris1]

I agree his passive is just terrible and the slowing is a great idea but might need thinking about as what if you have snow globe on and you have the passive of 5m 30 percent slowing.

I agree his First skill isn't very useful that much due to multiple enemies just ignoring the freeze effect now.

I like the idea of putting ice waves augment into his skill as I think this should have been in the first place since the cold proc only its own isn't as useful as it could be. If this was changed id like an augment that would work with having the wave instead turn into a round or square area around frost that still functioned like the current augment but the only difference is the shape has changed.

Avalanche is nice id just like an augment which would allow it to be cast and instead of freezing it would be like a blizzard where it slows at first then freezes maybe accuracy loss and continues to be on the field instead of 1 cast and instant freeze. Nothing wrong with avalanche its pretty good.

 

[keikogi]

2 hours ago, tris1 said:

I agree his passive is just terrible and the slowing is a great idea but might need thinking about as what if you have snow globe on and you have the passive of 5m 30 percent slowing.

The passive is deceptively strong for a passive effect. Even at 20 meters it reduces all dps by 10%. They way I tough to fix the stacking was if frost is inside a snow globe the passive is emited by the globe ( effectively increases the passive) 

2 hours ago, tris1 said:

I agree his First skill isn't very useful that much due to multiple enemies just ignoring the freeze effect now

It wasn't that usefull in the past either. I remember that times when skills were mods and people rarely equipped freeze. It come down to why freeze a bombard for 25 when I can freeze bombards and friends for 100.

 

2 hours ago, tris1 said:

Avalanche is nice id just like an augment which would allow it to be cast and instead of freezing it would be like a blizzard where it slows at first then freezes maybe accuracy loss and continues to be on the field instead of 1 cast and instant freeze. Nothing wrong with avalanche its pretty good.

Could be really cool a blizzard that freezes enemy over time. But I did not want to fix what was not broken for the sake of awesome visuals.