The Titania/Archwing problem

[BurningPenguin6]

This new Archwing system just violently butchered the one thing that made Titania fun. Razorwing was literally the only thing that kept people (myself included) playing Titania, but the new changes have made it clunkly, and awkward to use.

1: She has absolutely no conservation of momentum, which makes everything feel rigid and hard to control, while also rendering evasive maneuvers (the rolls and dodges you get when pressing Shift and a direction) completely worthless since she barely moves while using them.
2: The change to how boosting works means that I am now forced to move AND look only forward when holding Shift, which severely limits my overall mobility.
Previously, holding Shift increased your movement speed, and you could move/aim in whatever direction you wanted while maintaining the increased speed needed to avoid enemy shots.
3: You can no longer aim and boost at the same time.
4: Her guns new sounds (why did this even need a change???) don't even match her fire rate.
5: I'm not sure about this one, but it feels like you brought the camera closer to the players back, meaning that more of the screen is taken up by the player's character model than before. Kind of annoying, since there's no option to change the FoV for when in Archwing/Razorwing mode.

Overall I feel that these changes to the flight system are a massive downgrade, rather than an upgrade. 
Titania is literally my favourite Warframe in the game because of just how much fun her Razorwing ability was, and I seriously hope you'll take what I've said into consideration.

P.S: While in my Archwing, I keep accidentally triggering the teleport and either slam into terrain, or massively overshoot where I want to be, due to it triggering by holding "Shift" and "W" at the same time, rather than being triggered by double tapping "Shift" or something. With Empyrean on the way, and Archwings being a significant part of that update, I'm worried about having to deal with a clunky downgraded flight system in the coming months.

[nooneyouknow13]

3 hours ago, BurningPenguin6 said:

1: She has absolutely no conservation of momentum, which makes everything feel rigid and hard to control, while also rendering evasive maneuvers (the rolls and dodges you get when pressing Shift and a direction) completely worthless since she barely moves while using them.

Rolls aren't actually intended to avoid enemy fire, especially when we're being shot at with hitscan weaponry. Rolling reduces damage by 75% for a duration, and no matter how little, or how much you move they still do that.

[Noralen]

20 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

Rolls aren't actually intended to avoid enemy fire, especially when we're being shot at with hitscan weaponry. Rolling reduces damage by 75% for a duration, and no matter how little, or how much you move they still do that.

That's not entirely accurate. Certain enemies have projectile based weapons just like how some players have projectile based weapons (Bows, bolter, some sniper rifles). there are enemies with hit scan weapons, but there are also those like bombards, balistas, eviscerators, etc  that use projectile based weapons.

As it turns out, these weapons are significantly more dangerous and do much more damage anyway, so avoiding them is absolutely paramount to ones survival, and since Titania has the lowest health pool of all frames, if she gets hit by even one of those it can pretty much one shot her, especially at higher levels. The nerfs to razorwing and archwing mobility means that Titania can't get out of the AoE of these weapons fast enough, and therefore dies much easier.

[nooneyouknow13]

23 hours ago, Noralen said:

Titania has the lowest health pool of all frames, if she gets hit by even one of those it can pretty much one shot her, especially at higher levels. The nerfs to razorwing and archwing mobility means that Titania can't get out of the AoE of these weapons fast enough, and therefore dies much easier.

Titania doesn't have the lowest health pool of all frames, since there are frames with 15 base armor compared to her 65. Running Aviator in her exilus actually makes her on the tankier of side of things when combined with her razorwing evasion, and I run Aerodynamic on top of that. Thorns also now provides 50% damage reduction anytime you can find a melee enemy. The few projectile based enemy weapons tend to explode more often than not, and have large enough radii that the damage avoidance of rolling still comes more from the 75% damage reduction than the displacement. Also, several of exploding projectiles also have homing characteristics. Rolling can't avoid those at all, but will still reduce damage from them. Also, accuracy penalties such as dust have significantly exaggerated effects on non-homing projectiles compared to hitscan.

Edited November 28, 2019 by nooneyouknow13

[Nichivo]

5 hours ago, BurningPenguin6 said:

P.S: While in my Archwing, I keep accidentally triggering the teleport and either slam into terrain, or massively overshoot where I want to be, due to it triggering by holding "Shift" and "W" at the same time, rather than being triggered by double tapping "Shift" or something. With Empyrean on the way, and Archwings being a significant part of that update, I'm worried about having to deal with a clunky downgraded flight system in the coming months.

Or you could go into keybindings, and bind sprint, and roll to separate keys, and stop using sprint toggle(which gives it's users exactly what they want less control). If sprint/roll is bound to shift, double tap will blink, even if it was an accident. 

[zakaryx]

She needs to be able to look and shoot in any direction while boosting just like in the old version. If that got put back in her razorwing would be much much better than it is now.

 

Wih the razorwing blitz buff it's absolutely impossible to control while boosting now and can actually get you stuck in terrain. Never had that happen before the latest change.

[Xenogath]

I was shocked at how many people seem to like the new Archwing mechanics on Razorwing. Until now I was under the firm impression it would be a bug. I only found this thread while looking for an actual bug report.

I especially agree with you guys about the inability to look around freely, but even if that was the case, archwing controls are painfully clunky all around. I get that inertia was kind of an issue at times, but this is like trading in your Mercedes for a bobbycar because one tire had a blowout. I’m not complaining about change per se, just that those awkward controls have always been the main reason for me to avoid archwing content altogether.

I can add nothing but my support for BurningPenguin6 and hope they just revert the changes. Titania has always been one of my favorite Frames but I can’t see myself going back to playing her again as long as she is in this…pitiful state.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Xenogath

[Cyresea]

Yeah I REALLY don't like the new Titania. The flight changes are just... really frustrating to play with.

Old Titania, while "sprinting", was like... driving a car. Press forward to accelerate. Release forward to decelerate. Press back to brake. If you didn't touch anything, eventually you'd come to a complete stop. This made sense, and worked really well for the tight, constrained levels Warframe tends to have. If you need to slow a little to aim or maneuver, just release the button a second. If you wanted to stop to wait for a friendship door or something, release the button for a few seconds. No need to ever really toggle Sprint off, actually, as you'd come to a complete stop even while sprinting.

New Titania though, while sprinting, she controls more like... like she's on a throttle of sorts? Default is max speed, tap back to decrease your movement speed slightly. Tap forward to increase it slightly. She moves constantly though, even if you decrease the throttle to the absolute minimum. To stop, and to return to a "normal" movement style, you need to turn off Sprint entirely.

Now this might be cool as an added feature, like if Razorwing were given an added boost mode on top of its current sprint, a long range "cruise" mode of sorts, that'd be okay. But replacing her standard sprint movement with it, when her non-sprint feels incredibly slow... No, thank you. It makes everything a little bit harder. If you want to move faster than a crawl, Titania will be constantly rushing forward, which makes playing her feel more like a railshooter than a six-degrees-of-freedom game.

If people like this, making it an option would be okay. But please, give me the option to get my old Titania back. She was my favorite frame by far, and now she's just... not as much fun to play.

[PabloX732]

I played Titania a lot, top 6 warframes from my playtime, I prefer the new changes and want it to stay that way, so we have a problem.

[PabloX732]

17 hours ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

Titania doesn't have the lowest health pool of all frames, since there are frames with 15 base armor compared to her 65%. Running Aviator in her exilus actually makes her on the tankier of side of things when combined with her razorwing evasion, and I run Aerodynamic on top of that. Thorns also now provides 50% damage reduction anytime you can find a melee enemy. The few projectile based enemy weapons tend to explode more often than not, and have large enough radii that the damage avoidance of rolling still comes more from the 75% damage reduction than the displacement. Also, several of exploding projectiles also have homing characteristics. Rolling can't avoid those at all, but will still reduce damage from them. Also, accuracy penalties such as dust have significantly exaggerated effects on non-homing projectiles compared to hitscan.

finally someone who understand titania, thanks for the clarification on that aspect.

[Blobfish86]

wait, the dull clunky flight is intentional? i thought it was some physic bug, hope they change it, it feels just weird

[vomder]

The new flight is god awful, it needs to be changed back.

[Vahenir]

The new flight physics are generally a huge improvement in my opinion. However they did go a bit too far with removing inertia as while flying with archwings is fairly decent razorwing with the augment razorwing blitz /really/ makes it feel like you are controlling an inertialess camera or flying around with noclip. On top of that the top speed of the augmented razorwing is extremely high which makes it much harder to control when the acceleration is near instant. As it was before you could tap the buttons to drift slowly when needed, this is now something that feels extremely janky.

So i do hope that some inertia will be brought back, but nothing as insane as before the change.

[Meta999]

Just please give us the *option* to have Titania's "old" flight style back. 

There used to be a box in one of the options menus which toggled some sort of experimental flight mode for archwings. Maybe have something like that - a box which enables you to select the flight style for Titania/archwings. I really get the sense that this is something DE can do, if they choose to. 

So, DE, I (and surely many others) EMPLORE you to make this happen! 

Titania was my second-most-used frame. Now she just frustrates me. (Kind of reminds me of ... never mind.)

[Gaxxian]

hace 1 hora, Meta999 dijo:

Just please give us the *option* to have Titania's "old" flight style back. 

There used to be a box in one of the options menus which toggled some sort of experimental flight mode for archwings. Maybe have something like that - a box which enables you to select the flight style for Titania/archwings. I really get the sense that this is something DE can do, if they choose to. 

So, DE, I (and surely many others) EMPLORE you to make this happen! 

Titania was my second-most-used frame. Now she just frustrates me. (Kind of reminds me of ... never mind.)

Titania was my main. Now i cannot play her. Thats the level of frustration 😞

[Lunaticked]

I'm surprised this isn't getting more traction. The archwing control change has totally decimated a playstyle that many enjoyed.

[Gaxxian]

hace 8 horas, Lunaticked dijo:

I'm surprised this isn't getting more traction. The archwing control change has totally decimated a playstyle that many enjoyed.

Because nobody cares about Titania, as always 😞

[EinheriarJudith]

9 hours ago, Lunaticked said:

I'm surprised this isn't getting more traction. The archwing control change has totally decimated a playstyle that many enjoyed.

how about this, hear me out.... your opinion isnt shared by everyone?

[Vahenir]

I can at least say that the new archwing physics work perfectly fine on titania, as long as you aren't running razorwing blitz. Once you get that stacked up there is that annoying problem of not being able to move at any speed but 0 and fast. Hitting the boost at that point will pin you to the wall in front of you unless you are in a very open map/tile. I would rather not see the speed nerfed myself, but rather add some inertia back so you could tap the movement buttons and drift in a more controlled manner. The boost being ludicrous speed is still something i like to use, but its more for getting between groups of enemies quickly.