XzWasPzX Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Justo ahora, peterc3 dijo: You've played a lot of the game, then, to get to this point and not know this is a co-op game. Warframe, until now, it's a co op game, but cooperate its optional. Until now at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StinkyPygmy Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said: The line between discipline and tiranny in your idea is so thin... If cooperating with others for a common goal is tyranny then i have no idea how we made it this far as a species.... Imagine your cleaning the house and someone is helping you, they agreed to help you, you ask them to help move the couch so you can clean under it. They tell you to get stuffed. The house remains filthy. In what world is it unreasonable to expect they help you and not be a clown after agreeing to help you? You got some wild logic there friend. Don't misuse words like tyranny. Kind of detracts from the actual meaning and gravity of the word. Edited December 6, 2019 by StinkyPygmy 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seprent Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Just now, XzWasPzX said: Well, thats something that only designers are able to answer, since they designed the game mode this way. I simply would have designed the game mode slightly different to make co op not so essential. So the solo mode their going to put in at a later date for a NPC crew that they showed in the UI when the showed piloting,gunnery,engineering,etc so you can avoid the problem altogether. Alright but cant just sit there and so no that's toxic when for until that comes no one might as well no one do it publicly since if there is no way for a person that is the host and controller of the ship is unable to have some control on the crew it be a even worse system then someone who is a little kick happy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XzWasPzX Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Y'all are not being realistic about whats gonna happen. You think everyone who comes into your ship its gonna go to the navigation console and say "crew member enlisted, awaiting orders, sir!". Well, i have bad news for you, thats not gonna happen xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarriaga Posted December 6, 2019 Author Share Posted December 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said: Well, thats something that only designers are able to answer, since they designed the game mode this way. I simply would have designed the game mode slightly different to make co op not so essential. What a cop out answer in order to sustain your "toxicity" argument. "I have a problem, but rather than doing something about it myself, I will avoid taking any action as to not compromise what I've said before". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sziklamester Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Just now, XzWasPzX said: Y'all are not being realistic about whats gonna happen. You think everyone who comes into your ship its gonna go to the navigation console and say "crew member enlisted, awaiting orders, sir!". Well, i have bad news for you, thats not gonna happen xD I personally would do some role on the ship but I refuse to wash the board and repair the damage. Just by the logic in a future game on ships there are no damage control by default so I need to do all the boring tedium. No thanks, " I am going to a corner and plays Shawzin ". Call me later when the ship sunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StinkyPygmy Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 1 minute ago, XzWasPzX said: Y'all are not being realistic about whats gonna happen. You think everyone who comes into your ship its gonna go to the navigation console and say "crew member enlisted, awaiting orders, sir!". Well, i have bad news for you, thats not gonna happen xD Sure, of course some people will be uncooperative, if thats the case the mission fails, so everyone loses, or they get kicked. Super simple stuff. If you agree to take part in a group activity and refuse to work with everyone, then why are you even there? It makes literally zero sense. If thats the case, everyone has full rights to not want to play with you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamazuki Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, peterc3 said: You've played a lot of the game, then, to get to this point and not know this is a co-op game. Warframe is a multi-player game with no content that has cooperation as a requirement. DE even acknowledged that Warframe isn't really a co-op game and are trying to change that with Railjack, given a common complaint about Warframe is how it feels like a single player game with added multi-player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarriaga Posted December 6, 2019 Author Share Posted December 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said: Y'all are not being realistic about whats gonna happen. You think everyone who comes into your ship its gonna go to the navigation console and say "crew member enlisted, awaiting orders, sir!". Well, i have bad news for you, thats not gonna happen xD It will not be a problem if there's a kick button. Sooner or later, that player will get tired of being unable to make any progress for being constantly kicked out of ships. They'll either behave, or build their own ship. Your scenario of chaotic anarchy and player trolling is only possible if there are no consequences for doing so. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XzWasPzX Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 hace 1 minuto, Yamazuki dijo: Warframe is a multi-player game with no content that has cooperation as a requirement. DE even acknowledged that Warframe isn't really a co-op game and are trying to change that with Railjack, given a common complaint about Warframe is how it feels like a single player game with added multi-player. Exactly. You drew the picture much better than me, thanks a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XzWasPzX Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Justo ahora, Jarriaga dijo: It will not be a problem if there's a kick button. Sooner or later, that player will get tired of being unable to make any progress for being constantly kicked out of ships. They'll either behave, or build their own ship. Your scenario of chaotic anarchy and player trolling is only possible if there are no consequences for doing so. Giving a player the power to kick another players... No thanks, not everybody would use that button reassonably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StinkyPygmy Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sziklamester said: I personally would do some role on the ship but I refuse to wash the board and repair the damage. Just by the logic in a future game on ships there are no damage control by default so I need to do all the boring tedium. No thanks, " I am going to a corner and plays Shawzin ". Call me later when the ship sunk. Unless you all agree on that before hand, then thats just a counterproductive attitude. Not saying your wrong to not like a particular role, but if everyone isn't aware of that before hand then you're just being obstinate. Also, if the ship sinks, you lose as well, so you waste you own time. So its kind of in your best interests to not be stubborn, or at least have an agreement beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarriaga Posted December 6, 2019 Author Share Posted December 6, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said: Giving a player the power to kick another players... No thanks, not everybody would use that button reassonably. 1) If you have a douchebag Captain, leave. Someone else will appreciate you trying to help if you actually intend to help. 2) You can't be kicked out of your own ship. They confirmed you will always host if it's your RJ. Build your own if you never want to risk it. Or are you now going to become the unreasonable douchebag Captain you just ran away from? This is a non-issue. Edited December 6, 2019 by Jarriaga 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seprent Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said: Y'all are not being realistic about whats gonna happen. You think everyone who comes into your ship its gonna go to the navigation console and say "crew member enlisted, awaiting orders, sir!". Well, i have bad news for you, thats not gonna happen xD its more Ok welcome aboard can you make yourself useful please since kinda a extreme view of expecting total obedience is it too hard for some basic co-operation for something or is everyone in pub's the basic a unco-operative sheit? at least with a kick or removal system you could boot someone and hope to get someone who at least willing to have the common decency to co-operate then sit there with their thumb in their mouth telling people "whateva i du wat i want" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StinkyPygmy Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Just now, XzWasPzX said: Giving a player the power to kick another players... No thanks, not everybody would use that button reassonably. "let other people be deliberately difficult for no reason after agreeing to help you and work against a shared goal, because some people might misuse the kick button". If people misuse the kick button you realise they are hurting themselves as well. In the same way not working with the team hurts everyone. Problem solved, theres your deterrent from people being a pain/ HOW can you not see that in this case, misusing a kick, and refusing to cooperate would hurt everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XzWasPzX Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 hace 1 minuto, Jarriaga dijo: 1) You can't be kicked out of your own ship. 2) If you have a douchebag Captain, leave. Someone else will appreciate you trying to help if you actually intend to help. What if i can stay there and be a pain in the ass for that captain? He behaved as a douchebag, now i ll punish him staying there and in fact leading the mission to a huge disaster. What if i'm a vengeful person? What if i misunderstood an order and got angry because of it in the middle of a mission? All that can happen, and i dont see any way to prevent the incoming damage from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarriaga Posted December 6, 2019 Author Share Posted December 6, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said: What if i can stay there and be a pain in the ass for that captain? He behaved as a douchebag, now i ll punish him staying there and in fact leading the mission to a huge disaster. What if i'm a vengeful person? What if i misunderstood an order and got angry because of it in the middle of a mission? All that can happen, and i dont see any way to prevent the incoming damage from it. So you are just trying to defend your own intention to be a douchebag toxic player and only using other player's toxicity to excuse your own? If that's the hill you want to die on then be my guest. Edited December 6, 2019 by Jarriaga 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XzWasPzX Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Justo ahora, Jarriaga dijo: So you are just trying to defend your own intention to be a douchebag toxic player and only using other player's toxicity to excuse your own? Im drawing the worst possible scenarios, just because they are possible. And they souldnt be. Dont you see it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)xtharbadx Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 The conversations on this thread about toxicity etc only really matter if there’s matchmaking. DE didn’t talk about that at all, they only showed pre made squad. If you’re hosting the squad, which obviously means it’s your railjack, it’s your rules. What I do wonder thou, is how resource management will work. We use resources while on mission. Who’s resources are we using? Will a player be able to essentially bankrupt the host.. Will the person giving orders basically demand others to deplete their resources? This sounds like a potential mess. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sziklamester Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 1 minute ago, StinkyPygmy said: Unless you all agree on that before hand, then thats just a counterproductive attitude. Not saying your wrong to not like a particular role, but if everyone isn't aware of that before hand then you're just being obstinate. Also, if the ship sinks, you lose as well, so you waste you own time. So its kind of in your best interests to not be stubborn, or at least have an agreement beforehand. True and agree with you on this but the trolling potential is high there unless they will add a kick option to punish that behavior but once they add kicking options then they should add to the regular missions aswell which means troll kicks will be a thing. I appreciate your mentality on this but the human nature is well different by person. Many will agree to do things for a common goal but many will just see how could spoil your game. For me in this point not interesting because I was not hyped on this at all because I prefer this game mechanics on different games which actually soloable and space fight. If you are old enough you may know the Freespace and some recent space simulator games where you basically plays alone and can focus on one thing so you do not need to do the dirty roles. I personally not interested in this update because I catched by the base game modes and that's all. I do appreciate their effort to try to make some coop because in a cooperation game the ideal would be if players could do play together but this game was spoiled with the start by not forcing players to work as a team so basically 4 room and in each room 1 person plays. This update is a different milestone and it will shown if their effort are worth to make cooperation better or the design fails by their flaws. I bet it will be in the middle way. If you invite me to your ship I accept your rules because your ship and your rules like normally in real life. If you trust peoples it is fine but I am sure it is not for random matches so it will be a bad idea to join/invite randoms. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarriaga Posted December 6, 2019 Author Share Posted December 6, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said: Im drawing the worst possible scenarios, just because they are possible. And they souldnt be. Dont you see it? If that's the hill you want to die on then be my guest. You said it yourself: It's people's nature. For those that are not civil, there's punishment so they can at least pretend to play along out of their own interest. A kick crew button serves all. Douchebags get to be corrected for their behavior or not play. Edited December 6, 2019 by Jarriaga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakata Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 And now imagine this... DE will release this mode anyway. What a madness! Why would anyone creating computer games do something like this? Madlads! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 34 minutes ago, Jarriaga said: You have to willingly choose to join someone else's ship. Why would you choose to join another ship's crew only to be a douchebag and not do your part? How would me, the host, calling you out on it be toxic if you decided to take the first step to join me if you had no intention of doing your part? Build your own ship and host your own games if you're not going to cooperate. Easy solution. I wish I lived in the magical christmas land where all people are decent enough to not consider doing that for the fun of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furebel Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 The railjack is not even here yet, and you already make arguments about how you will make arguments. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XzWasPzX Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 hace 1 minuto, Furebel dijo: The railjack is not even here yet, and you already make arguments about how you will make arguments. Bet that means something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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