The Cryophon wasn't even nerfed

[JackHargreav]

Just tried it out myself. Went in alone into a veil mission and enemies took 3 shots max. So those who were worrying, well good news. The Cryophon is still amazing. 

Edited January 11, 2020 by JackHargreav

[DrivaMain]

Is it with damage avionics like Hyperstrike, Predator, Section Density or without them?

[JackHargreav]

6 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Is it with damage avionics like Hyperstrike, Predator, Section Density or without them?

I have a vidar hyperstrike. I think.

The others I don't have and don't use.

Edited January 10, 2020 by JackHargreav

[Kaotyke]

I'm avoiding saying that I've seen no difference in how many shots I need to kill the fighters, because I know I will get dogpiled if I do.

3 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Is it with damage avionics like Hyperstrike, Predator, Section Density or without them?

No changes in the Avionics for me. Same +76% Hyperstrike, +42,5% Section Density.

[Melanholic7]

it feels weaker, at   least cause everyone telling its weaker now 😞 hard to decide myself after this propaganda

[Nyllith]

The cryophon is significantly weaker now, especially when you consider the fact that it was balanced around rhino's roar being used.
OG roared cryophon with munitions vortex took 2 shot to blow up whole squads, now you have to charge 5 shots and some ships will survive because it takes so long to fire 5 times into the vortex. That's a big nerf in my eyes.

If you use the weapon in a "classical" manner, it is still weaker than it was before.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Nyllith

[Fallen77]

il y a 2 minutes, Nyllith a dit :

The cryophon is significantly weaker now, especially when you consider the fact that it was balanced around rhino's roar being used.
OG roared cryophon with munitions vortex took 2 shot to blow up whole squads, now you have to charge 5 shots and some ships will survive because it takes so long to fire 5 times into the vortex.

If you use the weapon in a "classical" manner, it is still weaker than it was before.

They specifically said that they didn't intend on WF abilities to work with RJ guns I'm pretty sure, so unless I don't remember everything, it has never been balanced around rhino roar.

[Reifnir]

My Cryo went from ~15k total damage per shot after Avionics to ~6k total damage after Avionics. It was nerfed HARD, please stop claiming otherwise. 

Vidar models felt it a tiny bit less, Zetki got hammered into uselessness. 

It's barely viable at all now, as are all other guns. Thankfully, missiles are still viable. 

[Nyllith]

il y a 2 minutes, Fallen77 a dit :

They specifically said that they didn't intend on WF abilities to work with RJ guns I'm pretty sure, so unless I don't remember everything, it has never been balanced around rhino roar.

Straight from the patch note:

Our intent is to make Railjack weapons more effective on their own. As such, Rhino’s Roar and Saryn’s Toxic Lash no longer unintentionally affect Railjack weapons

 

It definetely was not the initial intent, but that balance patch was supposed to make weapons better so we don't need those abilities anymore. And we need them more than even before, which is completly stupid and straight up bad balance.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Nyllith

[Kaotyke]

35 minutes ago, Nyllith said:

Straight from the patch note:

Our intent is to make Railjack weapons more effective on their own. As such, Rhino’s Roar and Saryn’s Toxic Lash no longer unintentionally affect Railjack weapons

Yeah? Unintentionally.

Are you preaching the choir?

36 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

My Cryo went from ~15k total damage per shot after Avionics to ~6k total damage after Avionics. It was nerfed HARD, please stop claiming otherwise. 

Vidar models felt it a tiny bit less, Zetki got hammered into uselessness. 

It's barely viable at all now, as are all other guns. Thankfully, missiles are still viable. 

No one here is saying it wasnt nerfed, no idea where you put that out from.

edit: Oh right, the title. My bad.

But I'm noticing a pathern in these posts.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Kaotyke

[Nyllith]

à l’instant, Kaotyke a dit :

Yeah? Unintentionally.

Are you preaching the choir?

I edited my post a few seconds later 😀

[xBloodySin]

Just now, Nyllith said:

the fact that it was balanced around rhino's roar being used

 

Just now, Nyllith said:

It definetely was not the initial intent

So which is it?

[Nyllith]

il y a 5 minutes, xBloodySin a dit :

 

So which is it?

The so called "positive adjustment" (which in cryo weapon's case is a nerf) of weapons was made because people used WF abilities to counteract the absoltute trash balance of Railjack. Dude, I made it pretty clear, and DE as well.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Nyllith

[xBloodySin]

Just now, Nyllith said:

The so called "positive adjustment" (which in cryo weapon's case is a nerf) of weapons was made because people used WF abilities. Dude, I made it pretty clear, and DE as well.

You make your contradiction pretty clear, that's true.

Either they "balanced around" or the fact that combo existed was unintentional - which sets the first one in the "pulled out of your ass" category.

[Jounar54]

2 minutes ago, Nyllith said:

The so called "positive adjustment" (which in cryo weapon's case is a nerf) of weapons was made because people used WF abilities. Dude, I made it pretty clear, and DE as well.

So DE nerfed the weapon and removed the ability for Warframe to effect said weapon?

That makes no sense.

[Nyllith]

il y a 1 minute, xBloodySin a dit :

You make your contradiction pretty clear, that's true.

Either they "balanced around" or the fact that combo existed was unintentional - which sets the first one in the "pulled out of your ass" category.

If you can't read that's on you. If the only problem was WF abilities, they would just have removed them and not touched weapons AT ALL.

Don't be stupid and just arguing for the sake of it.

People here are discussing cryo weapons because DE states that they were balanced to remain as powerful as before, and in fact they're not. What don't you understand here exactly?

[JackHargreav]

13 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

My Cryo went from ~15k total damage per shot after Avionics to ~6k total damage after Avionics. It was nerfed HARD, please stop claiming otherwise. 

Vidar models felt it a tiny bit less, Zetki got hammered into uselessness. 

It's barely viable at all now, as are all other guns. Thankfully, missiles are still viable. 

I'm using exactly the zetki version of that weapon. And the beefiest enemies in veil go down so easily. As I said 3 shots. Unless you're shooting from really far.

[Nyllith]

il y a 2 minutes, Jounar54 a dit :

So DE nerfed the weapon and removed the ability for Warframe to effect said weapon?

That makes no sense.

That's exactly what happened for cryo weapons. I'm not saying it's making sense, we're talking DE balance here.

[Elenortirie]

Just now, Nyllith said:

If you can't read that's on you. If the only problem was WF abilities, they would just have removed them and not touched weapons AT ALL.

Don't be stupid and just arguing for the sake of it.

People here are discussing cryo weapons because DE states that they were balanced to remain as powerful as before, and in fact they're not. What don't you understand here exactly?

I think the problem is not his reading capabilities, but your choice of words in this specific scenario.

the phrase "cryophone was specifically balanced around rhino roar[..]" implies that initial balancing was done around the concept that it is buffed by such.

And from your further responses I understand You have meant that it was supposed to get *rebalanced* around the fact that it is no longer the case.

 

That being said there is also elephant in the room - DE's patch notes wording - implying they want to buff all guns to compensate for the fix, while what the note probably was intended to mean is something like "we want those guns to do their job on their own, so we bugfix the unintended buffing"

[xBloodySin]

 

3 hours ago, Nyllith said:

People here are discussing cryo weapons because DE states that they were balanced to remain as powerful as before, and in fact they're not.

They are. The damage numbers might be lower, but the TTK is still the same, they still die in around the same number of hits.

 

[Nyllith]

3 hours ago, xBloodySin said:

They are. The damage numbers might be lower, but the TTK is still the same, they still die in around the same number of hits.

I said they were balanced around rhino's roar being used YESTERDAY (I've been talking about the positive adjustment of other weapons as well, don't misinterpret what I said), as in the patch that just hit. I know weapons were not balanced from the get go around anything, because that's just how DE does things.

 

[(XBOX)SupremeMorph]

35 minutes ago, Nyllith said:

The cryophon is significantly weaker now, especially when you consider the fact that it was balanced around rhino's roar being used.

Are you sure this isn't just because roar doesn't affect rj weapons anymore? I reckon when I get a hold of this they'll feel just like normal

[xBloodySin]

Just now, Nyllith said:

I said they were balanced around rhino's roar being used YESTERDAY (I've been talking about the positive adjustment of other weapons as well, don't misinterpret what I said), as in the patch that just hit. I know weapons were not balanced from the get go around anything, because that's just how DE does things.

They weren't. They were balanced around the changes made to armor and health. Abilities were never meant to affect Jack weapons, so there was nothing to balance around them at any point. Weapons were balanced and remained as powerful as before for the intended way, which was for abilities to not affect them, something that was dipping a toe into bug exploit territory.

[Anthraxicus]

12 minutes ago, Elenortirie said:

I think the problem is not his reading capabilities, but your choice of words in this specific scenario.

the phrase "cryophone was specifically balanced around rhino roar[..]" implies that initial balancing was done around the concept that it is buffed by such.

And from your further responses I understand You have meant that it was supposed to get *rebalanced* around the fact that it is no longer the case.

 

That being said there is also elephant in the room - DE's patch notes wording - implying they want to buff all guns to compensate for the fix, while what the note probably was intended to mean is something like "we want those guns to do their job on their own, so we bugfix the unintended buffing"

He is half correct. Although DE didn't intend Roar to work with Railjack, the fact of the the matter is that these types of abilities worked. Also, DE stated that they didn't want Railjack to feel trash, which it did. So, their current intention is that Railjack feels powerful as if you were using said abilities, but without having to use these abilities, so you can keep whatever Warframe you want. It seems they've failed yet again to reach an intended goal, kinda like Melee 3.0 all over again.

[Kaotyke]

36 minutes ago, Nyllith said:

t definetely was not the initial intent, but that balance patch was supposed to make weapons better so we don't need those abilities anymore. And we need them more than even before, which is completly stupid and straight up bad balance.

But they also halved the armor of the ships.

Sure, they have 33% HP to the non-Elites, but lower armor means you will do more damage.

They said in the patchnotes that the Cryo was OHK everything with the changes, so no way it was going to stay as strong as before.

As I said before, I saw no difference in the end. Takes me 2-3 shots to kill Veil enemies still.