Energy Economy Solutions (Long Proposal)

[Sarulas]

With the probable nerfs to arcane energize, one of the more reliable ways to keep up energy generation, the problem of players feeling shoehorned into either using Zenurik for energizing dash or spamming energy pizzas will likely increase dramatically. Given the importance and power of warframe abilities, going without adequate energy feels like it isn't an option, especially with higher level content where death is the result of running out. These limited options, coupled with the continued existence of energy leech units that have no visual tell when they spawn and start sapping energy, generally feels bad for players. I'd like to propose a system in the game where all players have the choice to actively pursue energy instead of relying solely on RNG pickups, consumables, or extremely limiting builds. I believe DE has recently introduced the perfect vehicle for this change: Parazons.

Currently, the parazon is a hidden blade type dagger that is useable in combat only when selected enemies reach a certain health threshold and the interact button is pressed, causing a special finisher animation. This doesn't work consistently in real combat situations since the visual trigger usually only appears after it's too late to register it and stop using whatever damaging ability you were just about to kill the target with. Additionally, the longer animation is usually not worth the risk of being hit by other enemies, as the mods that affect the finisher are pretty weak and situational. This feels like an incredible waste for the only weapon that's used across every single warframe. 

My proposal is as follows: remove the health threshold limit for using the parazon in combat. Instead, pressing the interact button always causes the warframe to contextually either throw it at or stab at an enemy in range. When hit, the enemy is put into a grapple animation, where several options are possible. By continuing to hold the button, the parazon will quickly drain energy from the target, releasing them after X amount of energy was restored. This would be part of the base functionality, not as the result of modding. The second option would be to press the fire button to shoot the enemy with your secondary weapon several times while still holding them at point blank range, with the blast knocking the enemy out of your grip. The last option would be pressing the melee button to throw them to the ground with one of several contextual animations to minimize collisions with the environment, opening the enemy to a ground finisher follow up with your main melee weapon. If the enemy is below X% health threshold, they will die to one of the existing parazon finishers if the option to drain their energy isn't selected.

I believe this change would accomplish several things that would overall enhance the game. One, the primary inspiration for the proposal, gaining energy is tied to a spesific player action that can be performed by anyone of any skill, level of progression, or build. It would be tied to a risk/reward mechanic that forces you to use your movement abilities to approach an enemy and remain vulnerable during an animation, encouraging it's use only after other enemies are cleared out of a room. Having drawbacks like this would keep it from being abused, but also ensure it's reliable usage. I firmly believe that giving players more options in combat as opposed to requiring consumables or spesific builds grinded out is just more fun. Next, it opens up grappling as a combat option in warframe. One thing I feel is missing from the game is more visceral enemy interactions where the warframe's power is showed off with more than just numbers. This is always really difficult to program, I'd imagine, with all the different types of enemies and weapons in the game. The parazon opened the door for this, however, and I'd like to see it fully realized. Combos like grabbing an enemy and shooting them point blank or throwing them to combo into a melee finisher would just be plain cool as well, giving this a viable, scaling dps role for players that opted for it. The modding for the parazon would also have many new possibilities with this change. The current energy generation mod for it could be changed to either increase the speed or the overall amount of energy gained, and there could be mods that force electric procs on the area to allow this ability to be safer before all enemies are cleared out. Mods could also add additional resources like ammo and shields to also be drained, and more. 

From an overall game balance standpoint, this could also improve a lot if executed well. Nuking abilities that clear the whole map would cause the most reliable way of replenishing the energy used on them to run out for a time until more enemies spawn, giving you a reason not to spam them too much. Crowd control frames would have an easier time supporting the party as CC'd enemies would be far easier and safer to grapple, allowing all 4 to regain energy. It encourages a gameplay loop where, to use all abilities more freely, you have and play more aggressively for a time, and that kind of offensive play has the potential to be a lot more engaging and strategic, requiring situational awareness and hopefully some support from your team.

With this kind of system, I think it would be more comfortable for player to accept arcane energize as more of a bonus backup system to increase efficiency like it was designed to be, and Zenurik/energizing dash would be absolutely necessary only on frames that really needed an extra boost or were too squishy to fight in close range. As such, a viable, consistent alternative like my proposal would do a lot for the health and variety of the game.

TL;DR: let parazons be used to grapple humanoid enemies at any time with different follow ups, one being a way to drain the opponent's energy to restore your own. A risk/reward system (vulnerable animation) like this being tied directly to energy would reduce the necessity of arcane energize and Zenurik while adding important and fun options to combat, offsetting the nerfs.

[Oreades]

Here's the thing, I don't have Arcane Energize (the prices where/are too high and the grind lol no thanks) and I can't think of a single build of mine that has trouble with energy. 

I rarely seriously use Energizing dash and in fairly rare (usually Parasitic Eximus) occasions will pop out a Pizza or two. 

So I really don't get what all the end of the world talk is with regard to focusing on Arcane Energize, did people really crutch on it that hard? 

[Kierlak]

31 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Here's the thing, I don't have Arcane Energize (the prices where/are too high and the grind lol no thanks) and I can't think of a single build of mine that has trouble with energy. 

I rarely seriously use Energizing dash and in fairly rare (usually Parasitic Eximus) occasions will pop out a Pizza or two. 

So I really don't get what all the end of the world talk is with regard to focusing on Arcane Energize, did people really crutch on it that hard? 

Other people are not you, and most people aren't running flaccid builds where you never cast anything, like you apparently do.

[krc473]

2 minutes ago, Kierlak said:

Other people are not you, and most people aren't running flaccid builds where you never cast anything, like you apparently do.

I am another person that doesn’t use energise or energising dash. I too have no trouble with energy. I almost always have enough energy to cast what I need. I have never understood why people treat these things as essential, they just aren’t.

47 minutes ago, Sarulas said:

TL;DR: let parazons be used to grapple humanoid enemies at any time with different follow ups, one being a way to drain the opponent's energy to restore your own.

I do like this idea. It would certainly give some more use to the Parazon. Although, I do feel like we would have to keep the health threshold for activation. It could just be quite frustrating accidentally using the Parazon on random enemies when trying to reload a gun, or unlock a door etc.

[DrBorris]

I really liked the idea of integrating the Parazon into the (broken) energy economy, but my worry here is that it is a bit on the slow side. It would work well enough for new players, the time in the game where the energy economy is the worst, but I don't see it scaling well into higher level content. This is a really cool starting point though.

1 minute ago, krc473 said:

I do like this idea. It would certainly give some more use to the Parazon. Although, I do feel like we would have to keep the health threshold for activation. It could just be quite frustrating accidentally using the Parazon on random enemies when trying to reload a gun, or unlock a door etc.

Finding enemies at a health threshold is probably even more inconsistent than energy drops, especially when playing in a party. The Parazon needs to find a way into combat that does not basically rely on a combat "failure" (failing to quickly kill an enemy). Maybe have the Parazon exist on a cooldown that can be accelerated by killing enemies. Or tie it to affinity, get "x" amount of affinity in order to recharge a Parazon finisher. This would also let it scale better into later game activities.

Ya know what this reminds me of? The Chainsaw in Doom 2016.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I don't see why we couldn't just jam the parazon into those hacking panel all over the place and fill up off of them using the base's own power supply...

[SpringRocker]

1 hour ago, Oreades said:

So I really don't get what all the end of the world talk is with regard to focusing on Arcane Energize, did people really crutch on it that hard?

Yup, people are basically using it like a crutch.

 

44 minutes ago, Kierlak said:

Other people are not you, and most people aren't running flaccid builds where you never cast anything, like you apparently do.

Sorry, but just because someone isn't spamming a button every time they see an enemy doesn't mean they don't use abilities. It's really stupid the amount of times someone either just stands there or moves around a little while spamming an AOE ability.

There was even one defense game I was in where a Mesa used their #4 once... As in they had waltz active and just moved around with regulators, for 5 rounds straight, kept it active inbetween rounds.

I left on the 5th round, but that was the stupidest thing I've seen. People use it as a crutch so they can press a button instead of needing to aim at something.

Edited February 29, 2020 by SpringRocker

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

2 hours ago, Oreades said:

Here's the thing, I don't have Arcane Energize (the prices where/are too high and the grind lol no thanks) and I can't think of a single build of mine that has trouble with energy. 

I rarely seriously use Energizing dash and in fairly rare (usually Parasitic Eximus) occasions will pop out a Pizza or two. 

So I really don't get what all the end of the world talk is with regard to focusing on Arcane Energize, did people really crutch on it that hard? 

I don’t have Arcane Energize or Energizing Dash, and I always run out of energy whenever I’d like to bother casting my abilities on Excalibur. Only time I feel like I have surplus energy is on Wukong, who has reduced energy costs for literally ever skill.

[Oreades]

40 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

this is why one person gets more than %50 of the damage dealt. 

And it's usually me unless there is a maimquinox, Mesa or Saryn nuking the whole map.

40 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

Others are just being useless to the team. So, have your argument but you're welcome for finishing your mission way faster than you would normally do.

No they really aren't, usually one player is just being a super sweaty tryhard. 

10 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

I don’t have Arcane Energize or Energizing Dash, and I always run out of energy whenever I’d like to bother casting my abilities on Excalibur. Only time I feel like I have surplus energy is on Wukong, who has reduced energy costs for literally ever skill.

I wish I could give some Excalibur advice but honestly never liked the playstyle so pretty sure I dipped him out the airlock after I rung out all the MR..

Best I could possibly do is usual go-to for efficiency which is a R4 Fleeting Expertese and a R4 Streamline no reason to go past R4 because together they top you off at 175% which is where the game caps you for efficiency. Going farther just hurts you for mod capacity and needlessly hobbles your range with Fleeting. 

That's the crux of most of my builds, tho I could probably leave it out if Energize was propping me up 😛

l.

[8faiNt]

8 minutes ago, Oreades said:

 

No they really aren't, usually one player is just being a super sweaty tryhard. 

weird way to justify leeches

[Oreades]

14 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

weird way to justify leeches

Yeah except they aren't leeching if people are denying them the capacity to get any kills. See this is why we don't have a "report leech" button in game because people do not understand what leeching actually is.

[8faiNt]

2 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Yeah except they aren't leeching if people are denying them the capacity to get any kills. See this is why we don't have a "report leech" button in game because people do not understand what leeching actually is.

If you have %1 damage you're basically a leech. If you're afk throughout the game, you are a leech. that's how it works

[Oreades]

1 minute ago, 8faiNt said:

If you have %1 damage you're basically a leech. 

Seeing as I can regularly out damage most people when I choose to get sweaty leaving them well in the single digits.... End of Mission damage does not determine someone is leeching. As long as they are there and trying they aren't leeching, if they are there and stop trying because one player is bogarting all the kills..... they also aren't leeching.

Again this is why we don't had an in game report button because people would be incorrectly flagging people and wasting DEs time left and right.

20 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

If you're afk throughout the game, you are a leech. that's how it works

Much more accurate approximation of leeching tho not entirely accurate there is a tiny bit more nuance. 

 

[DraekoSilver]

Just have energy recharge.

Just make Flow and Endurance Drift increase recharge rate. Still have arcane brave, energize and all the other things like orbs, but just have energy slowly restore over time.

Octavia is OP because of her abilities, not the fact that she can regen energy.

[Sarulas]

I know there's a broader conversation here about how much energy is necessary and usefulness in a team, and I respect that, I just wanted to put forward an idea that might help everyone just a little bit more and make the game more fun. Maybe a change like this would make some feel more free to use abilities more often, or enable people with sub optimal builds to compete a little more. I know it's not a problem for everyone, but there are a lot of reasons why it /could/ be so I feel like it's a productive conversation regardless. @DraekoSilver I was thinking about the passive regain as well, and I'm hoping that the armor scaling changes proposed frees up the aura slot for energy regen instead of CP. I wanted to consider a more active mechanic that didnt rely on a more traditional mana bar, playing to the game's strengths of movement and positioning instead. Especially since DE loves the pickup system, this just allows you to choose when you get the pickup so to speak. I'd certainly be happy with a solution like that as well though!