Ash blade storm to work SIMILAR to peacemaker to achieve ease of use for consoles

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

5 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Did I say that? No. Continue being sarky and putting words in my mouth all you want but that doesn’t make it true.

I’m perfectly happy with where the game is right now and am not asking for a straight up delete everything before it even spawns button. I’d play Garry’s Mod if I was in that mood. Stop exaggerating and trying to twist my words.

Just because I defend frames like Mesa does not mean I effectively don’t want to play the game, because you people insist on falsely acting like all nuke-type frames require about as much input as pre-rework Mesa.

So why are you even whinging then? If people prefer keeping the frame on, let them. Its no skin off of your nose if Ash’s fourth gets made less clunky, because the straight up truth of the matter is that it is clunky.

I love the blatant hypocrisy of how you’ll happily get out the cheese when its convenient, but you have the nerve to look down on people for using it more frequently than you.

All you can do is offer insults that just show how you just don’t like people who don’t share your view. Again, a very convincing argument.

No, I and others are not asking for Ash to be made “more OP”. Its adjusting his fourth so that it does not feel clunky to use, because it does. No one is asking for a damage boost or a stat increase. Just reworking his ability so that it feels better to use.

Again, two things wrong with your thinking;

1. I never said Ash’s fourth wasn’t powerful and can’t adequately deal with enemies. Its way I have not said a word about changing the actual damage.

2. Just because you like Ash’s fourth the way it is now, does not mean its suddenly okay. The world does not revolve around your anecdotal experience. 

Ash’s fourth is clunky to use as are some of his other abilities which could do with a look at themselves. Its simply changing the way it functions, not its damage output, so jump off that train.

There we go again; the old “people don’t actually know (insert frame here)” template for dismissing criticism. Highly effective and works every time evidently.

Melodramatic is all I have to say about you. Ash is not overpowered enough to need a nerf by a long shot and the changes to his ult would not change that either. He is in the category of clunky frames at the moment and its a shame because with a few small QoL tweaks he could become widely used again. 

Feeling "clunky" isn't a good reason either. Clunky to who? Not me.

I've seen people on these forums say we should get rid of the Operator because its "clunky" or "ruins the flow of combat". Even suggesting having the operator come out and do a Zen Dash, automatically.....

Guess what else is clunky? Reloading, Switching weapons, activating an ability, getting knocked down, well getting CCd at all really, dying, reviving, when the enemies levels goes up and I have to hit them 6 times instead of 2.

If you want the reticle or mechanic to be less clunky, you might as well widen the reticles ability to mark a target, essentially really giving people the ability to enter Blade Storm, swipe their mouse in a general 360, then reactive Blade storm, clearing the room.

If you need that to feel like a better player, whatever works.

[TheGodofWiFi]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Feeling "clunky" isn't a good reason either. Clunky to who? Not me.

Again, who are you? Just someone who is part of the minority thats who.

No, you might not feel clunky, but the majority do. Simple fact.

7 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

I've seen people on these forums say we should get rid of the Operator because its "clunky" or "ruins the flow of combat"

Again, a very small minority of people who are never listened to. Next redundant point please.

7 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Guess what else is clunky? Reloading, Switching weapons, activating an ability, getting knocked down, well getting CCd at all really, dying, reviving, when the enemies levels goes up and I have to hit them 6 times instead of 2.

Wow. Did you really go there?

You do realise that what you just posted goes beyond the bottom of the barrel and actually tunnels into the ground beneath it.

Honestly, I knew this argument was over when you started thinking insults was the best approach to an argument like this, but this feels like an encore to hammer that point home. If you’ve already shot yourself in the foot you might as well do the other one while you’re at it I guess.

I hope you have a very nice day in your small echo-chamber with RamRaid while the rest of us actually help get clunky mechanics sorted out.

Later.

[(PSN)drollive96]

*eats popcorn *

[sitfesz]

On 2020-05-04 at 2:14 PM, anarchy753 said:

Because Mesa's ult is one of the most problematic abilities in the game right now, for how braindead it is to kill things with absolutely no effort, at huge range and basically ruin any form of fun the other 3 teammates have because stuff just dies instantly as it spawns.

It can't ruin the fun for my teammates, because they are literally afk and this is fun itself to them and not only when I'm playing mesa.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

2 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Again, who are you? Just someone who is part of the minority thats who.

No, you might not feel clunky, but the majority do. Simple fact.

Again, a very small minority of people who are never listened to. Next redundant point please.

Wow. Did you really go there?

You do realise that what you just posted goes beyond the bottom of the barrel and actually tunnels into the ground beneath it.

Honestly, I knew this argument was over when you started thinking insults was the best approach to an argument like this, but this feels like an encore to hammer that point home. If you’ve already shot yourself in the foot you might as well do the other one while you’re at it I guess.

I hope you have a very nice day in your small echo-chamber with RamRaid while the rest of us actually help get clunky mechanics sorted out.

Later.

If you actually cared there'd be like 6 other frames you could be worried about that actually need attention, or the plethora of bugs that plague WF.

But yea, I get it, everyone isn't as lucky as me to be blessed with normal coordination. I agree video games can be a strain on the eyes, wrists, and mind. 

I guess this is the crescendo, though: Another game slowly turned into a McDonalds-style easy push button fun time. 

I'll enjoy it until it happens I guess. 

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

Im going to say this, YET AGAIN.

Consoles have some keyboard and mouse support natively. The only problem is a failure from DE to implement custom keybindings.

If you want K&M on console then use K&M on console. I do myself on occasion and always have a full keyboard plugged into my PS4 for faster chat typing and access to the quick touch options like progress, hide players and of couse instant access to abilities.

Its very nice tho i prefer controllers as i find that the few weapons that reward the percision of mouse are just not as good as the murder the map ones.

 

Now bladestorm DOES need a minor rework.. a 50-100% increase of the marking radius, and a way for clones to be active as marks are being made. Quite frankly the only way to actively play bladestorm into normal gameplay is turbo push 4 at all times and that is not comfortable with any control setup save macro programs and controllers/keyboards.

I mean you could get some legos and make a piston to push 4 constantly..

 

So.. you know.. system of choice has little to do with bladestorms issues.

Edited May 6, 2020 by (PS4)ForNoPurpose

[Rakosta_Kai]

On 2020-05-04 at 7:40 AM, Pie_mastyr said:

I love how you are somehow under the impression bladestorm was changed because it was ever op.

That's because you couldn't possibly have read the post to begin with...

How do you arrive at such a conclusion when I clearly state that "They didn't nerf the ability— They made it onerous to use instead."?

Do you need the definition of onerous?

On 2020-05-04 at 7:40 AM, Pie_mastyr said:

It was changed because players were essentially watching a cinematic play out for 20 to 30 seconds with no way to exit. The clones were added in to keep the idea of assassinating a group of targets,  but without having the controls taken away and to buff the speed it killed by 2-3x depending on whether you wanted to partake.

All of this is specifically why clones were added.

On 2020-05-04 at 7:40 AM, Pie_mastyr said:

Bladestorm has always struggled with scaling content, though bleed and finisher damage help a lot. 

It did before it's first big update... Then it was made finisher damage and got buffed with combo counters, finisher damage, and high single target slash damage.

Then it stopped having scaling issues... which is why it got so heavily used.

On 2020-05-04 at 7:40 AM, Pie_mastyr said:

Afaik DEs has changes have only ever buffed bladestorm dps, user experience or bug fixed him getting invincibility.

Invincibility wasn't a bug...It was literally added as a feature to keep players from dying while inside Bladestorm...and still exists.

The only bug fixed related to this was one where random users would be invincible after using Bladestorm...The bug was so silly that that the fact you even bother to mention it seems ridiculous to me. Not to mention the host of other bugs plaguing it during this period as well.

• Being stuck in walls.
• Inability to interact with the environment.
• The fall forever bug.

Back then, Bladestorm was a lottery machine with the best reward being crappy damage and extended i-frames allowing you to pick up heals and energy in BS distance.

The skill back then was hilarious in that it's downsides were like the ones you see in drug commercials today.

In other words, BS was an oh crap button with a chance at basically crashing the mission for the player.

On 2020-05-04 at 7:40 AM, Pie_mastyr said:

Unless I'm forgetting some magical period in time between old bladestorm and the clone based one.

...Sounds like it.

[ES-Flinter]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb -AiLuoLi-:

There's a reason why there's so many mobile games with idle/auto mode. Just because I like grinding for loots most of the time, doesn't mean I want to do it every single time. There's obviously a time where I want to spend the least amount of effort possible to get the loots.

But Warframe isn't a mobile game (Except the rumors that Warframe should go mobile are true). And if there are times where you don't want to grind something than just don do it. Nobod forces you to play (Except limited Events like scarlet spear...).  Play/ grind if you want it to do it and don't do it if you don't want to.

But about the most effecient way I agree with you. I can remember the times where I had to farm (luckily I have now from everything more than I ever will need). But the most efficient way should't be just one button press. And bit effort should be needed imo.

vor 22 Stunden schrieb -AiLuoLi-:

And yes some people do enjoy pressing 1 button play style. My most used frames were pre-rework nekros after all. Joining multiple 1 hour t4 survival run in a day and just pressing 3 without macros/afk was how I spent most of my time. Hell I'm one of the few that used natural talent just so I can spam it faster.

I don't understand why, but that's your opinion and I can't say anything against it. But I have to admit that I'm impressed. My finger start hurting after 5min when I had to recast Frosts snowglobe every 4s for the scarlet spear event.

[Rakosta_Kai]

On 2020-05-04 at 7:41 AM, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

Both are hyperbole. She is not a glass cannon because she is made of much stronger stuff then glass. Likewise, she is not a “tank by every definition” because warframe doesnt have true role for tanks.

FTFY. We have a pretty solid definition for tanks in this game we just lack typified roles in groups.

As to the rest? I stated as much already in regard to hyperbole— You literally quoted me doing so...

That said, I don't see Mesa as a Tank or even tanky... This coming from the guy who only plays tanky frames.

If that hurts your feelings? I am sorry... I don't see Mesa as any different from the other glass cannon frames with a single OP defensive ability in this game.

For example: Is she Tankier than Nova? Probably not.

Mesa's definition of a layered defense is a damage buff with the side effect of CC'ing mobs carrying ranged weapons in melee... I guess that's nifty but it's not really a layered defense as it is redundant.  Put simply, Mesa is tanky until the mob whips out a knife or shoots napalm at her...That's not tanky.

Leave Adaptation out of this because almost everything is tanky with it on.  

You do not have to like my opinion but your comments on the matter, while entirely sensible, assert that you don't have the capacity to change it either...Thanks for the input though.

[Acersecomic]

16 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

FTFY. We have a pretty solid definition for tanks in this game we just lack typified roles in groups.

As to the rest? I stated as much already in regard to hyperbole— You literally quoted me doing so...

That said, I don't see Mesa as a Tank or even tanky... This coming from the guy who only plays tanky frames.

If that hurts your feelings? I am sorry... I don't see Mesa as any different from the other glass cannon frames with a single OP defensive ability in this game.

For example: Is she Tankier than Nova? Probably not.

Mesa's definition of a layered defense is a damage buff with the side effect of CC'ing mobs carrying ranged weapons in melee... I guess that's nifty but it's not really a layered defense as it is redundant.  Put simply, Mesa is tanky until the mob whips out a knife or shoots napalm at her...That's not tanky.

Leave Adaptation out of this because almost everything is tanky with it on.  

You do not have to like my opinion but your comments on the matter, while entirely sensible, assert that you don't have the capacity to change it either...Thanks for the input though.

Tankier than Nova. Zero doubts about that.

Mesa can tank better than almost any other frame in the game, coupled with her insane 4th and her enemy weapon jams as well... you have insane damage resistance, enemy disruption and murder-everything as your defense layers. SHE LITERALY HAS 95% DAMAGE REDUCTION ON TOP OF AIMBOT AND JAMMING ENEMY GUNS.

You claiming to play only tanky frames and then excluding Mesa from it is like people shouting "I'M A NAVY SEAL" in YouTube comments. As in they clearly have no idea what they're talking about. You are either stubbornly driving your own narrative or talking from ignorance. I hope it's the latter because there is space to learn from it.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Acersecomic

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

3 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

FTFY. We have a pretty solid definition for tanks in this game we just lack typified roles in groups.

As to the rest? I stated as much already in regard to hyperbole— You literally quoted me doing so...

That said, I don't see Mesa as a Tank or even tanky... This coming from the guy who only plays tanky frames.

If that hurts your feelings?

Not sure where you thought this hurts my feelings, I was just stating my opinion

3 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

I am sorry... I don't see Mesa as any different from the other glass cannon frames with a single OP defensive ability in this game.

For example: Is she Tankier than Nova? Probably not.

I fail to see how she isnt tankier then nova. Nova does get dr with her 1, but only to health, and similar to baruuk that dr is dependant on how many enemies are near you. Mesa is weak to melee, but that's where her 2 comes into play, as a way to stop melee units from getting close enough in the first place. Her 3 alone isnt what makes her so survivable, its the combination of 95% dr to projectiles and almost immunity to melee (as long as she has her 2 up) that makes her so survivable.

3 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

Mesa's definition of a layered defense is a damage buff with the side effect of CC'ing mobs carrying ranged weapons in melee... I guess that's nifty but it's not really a layered defense as it is redundant.  Put simply, Mesa is tanky until the mob whips out a knife or shoots napalm at her...That's not tanky.

I fail to see why an ability that promptly stops the first instance of a mob pulling a knife redundant, but whatever. As for the napalm, yea thats true. It is weird that her 3 doesnt stop status effects, but i guess it kinda make sense since its only supposed to be vs projectiles (?). 

3 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

Leave Adaptation out of this because almost everything is tanky with it on.  

I never consider adaptation into factoring a frames surviability. 

3 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

You do not have to like my opinion but your comments on the matter, while entirely sensible, assert that you don't have the capacity to change it either...Thanks for the input though.

Touche.

[Rakosta_Kai]

3 hours ago, Acersecomic said:

Mesa can tank better than almost any other frame in the game, coupled with her insane 4th and her enemy weapon jams as well... you have insane damage resistance, enemy disruption and murder-everything as your defense layers. SHE LITERALY HAS 95% DAMAGE REDUCTION ON TOP OF AIMBOT AND JAMMING ENEMY GUNS.

You just made my point for me...

Her defensive "layers" per you are: 

Damage resistance to ranged attacks

CC to ranged attackers (completely redundant)

and... High DPS.

Calling DPS a defensive layer is straight hokey as it relies on removing enemies before they do the damage to begin with... That's Glass Cannon territory and reinforces my point.

 A defensive layers relies on how you handle the damage received to begin as opposed to merely removing it's source.

A tanky "anything" has an answer to damage received from any source...

She's an infested chewtoy without dps.

She's a volleyball for corpus without dps

The only faction she is reliable against is Grineer and so is just about every frame in the game these days.

3 hours ago, Acersecomic said:

Tankier than Nova. Zero doubts about that.

Maybe...I don't play glass cannons. You can be that expert.

I will say though that if I had to choose between playing Mesa with a timed defense ability and Nova with the null star augment that all but removes the need to recast...I'm gonna play Nova.

3 hours ago, Acersecomic said:

You claiming to play only tanky frames and then excluding Mesa from it is like people shouting "I'M A NAVY SEAL" in YouTube comments. As in they clearly have no idea what they're talking about. You are either stubbornly driving your own narrative or talking from ignorance. I hope it's the latter because there is space to learn from it.

It's just facts... What you are pushing amounts hot garbage at this point imo.

Proof? You literally had to make up layers to make a point... 

What CC is ranged attack CC when you have ranged attack damage resistance already?

What does Mesa do to defend Melee attacks?

What does Mesa do for environmental damage?

You answer those question for me and we can talk...You won't have those answers though because they don't flatter the frame in the light you are trying to cast it in.

Here's the thing, It's cool if you like Mesa... I don't dislike Mesa. I just don't see Mesa as much more than a glass cannon. That is my opinion and I don't see you changing it with the quality of your arguments.

That said, I don't think I have engaged in personal attacks on Tenno who do like Mesa or think it's a Tanky frame... So what need did you have for doing so?

 

  

 

 

 

[Rakosta_Kai]

31 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

I fail to see why an ability that promptly stops the first instance of a mob pulling a knife redundant, but whatever.

Fair enough. I, personally, have never felt this ability was worth much... Yes, I see the gun jams but if I take big damage it's from melee or environmental/splash damage.

I appreciate your ability to agree to differ on opinions though. 

[Acersecomic]

23 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

You just made my point for me...

Her defensive "layers" per you are: 

Damage resistance to ranged attacks

CC to ranged attackers (completely redundant)

and... High DPS.

Calling DPS a defensive layer is straight hokey as it relies on removing enemies before they do the damage to begin with... That's Glass Cannon territory and reinforces my point.

A GLASS CANNON HAS NO OTHER DEFENSIVE LAYERS! THAT IS WHY THEY ARE GLASS CANNONS.

Mesa is not a glass cannon, she is a freaking fortress of CAN'T TOUCH THIS. You're literally making an argument that 1 in a 100.000 research papers says Global Warming is a Hoax, therefore all other 99.999 studies done are not true. Just because she can remove maps with her DPS does not negate her insane amount of tankiness through damage resistance. Go on, play her without the Peacemaker and just use her defensive abilities and regular weapons. Go and see what kinda mad lad of a tank she is. Go disprove your point.

[JohnKable]

Console or pc doesnt matter. Ash's bladestorm is simply extremely clunky and stupidly inefficient.
its time to kill can be easily be compared to any good weapon

If a good aoe killing ability is too much to ask for, better to be reworked into something else entirely.

everyone and their cat has a rework idea for bladestorm, and honestly every single one of them would be better than the current one

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

With proper modding as well as her abilities, just like with any other frame or character in any MMO: having the capability to tank makes you a tank.

Just because she doesn't look aesthetically look like a tank or have some big gaudy knight armor doesnt mean she's not capable of tanking.

 

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

5 minutes ago, JohnKable said:

Console or pc doesnt matter. Ash's bladestorm is simply extremely clunky and stupidly inefficient.
its time to kill can be easily be compared to any good weapon

If a good aoe killing ability is too much to ask for, better to be reworked into something else entirely.

everyone and their cat has a rework idea for bladestorm, and honestly every single one of them would be better than the current one

Extremely is a terrible adjective. Unless you have some handicap....in which case I apologize if you have coordination issues.

 

[JohnKable]

48 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Extremely is a terrible adjective. Unless you have some handicap....in which case I apologize if you have coordination issues.

 

Well we have many others aoe abilities and  weapons in the game for comparison and bladestorm ends up as one of the worst if you look at the average time-to-kill. I havo no handicap or cooridination issues, just a variety of weapons and frames and in my personal experience bs never impressed for efficieny or scaling or ease of use.

you like as it is? fine. I dont have to like or play every single warframe in the roster, or use every single ability of each frame.

I think it can be revisited for the better, and it doesnt even need to rollback to the cheesefest it was before. The current iteration of bladestorm doesnt click for me, and i can think of a single situation where it is actually better than the various alternatives: You are in a big room with distant enemies far away from each other, pretty tough but not too tough, of course no nullifiers involved, and you rapidly select them and launch bladestorm