Force Start in groups..... this is just a big fat nope!

[MagPrime]

I think the best tool at the moment would be "Auto leave upon mission completion" but let's be real; it wouldn't stop the mind set that "it's your fault I force started, you weren't fast enough" or "it's your fault I did this because you didn't have that selected"

Toxic gonna be toxic, what we need is a better matchmaking system.  One that is simplistic enough to catch the major groups of; farmers, speeders and idgaf

 

[(PSN)Raven-Ghosthawk]

13 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

If we could have a client option to "auto-quit the group if I didn't accept the vote after the end of the force-start timer", would everyone be happy ?

I did mention a modified fissure-esque vote system auto-shedding folks that hadn't voted yes (or at all) into a separate squad: 

14 hours ago, (PS4)Raven-Ghosthawk said:

What about a tweak to the voting so that anyone not yet confirmed for the next mission gets left behind in a separate squad (when the timer runs out) rather than being dragged in ill-prepared?

This would split the squad into two separate ones, and might solve the issue of impatient/arbitrary FSing.

Also, is the ignore list tied into matchmaking so it doesn't pair you up with folks you've ignored?

Edited June 9, 2020 by (PS4)Raven-Ghosthawk

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Raven-Ghosthawk said:

Also, is the ignore list tied into matchmaking so it doesn't pair you up with folks you've ignored?

Sadly, no.  That would make things fairly simple but then you have the conflict of whose ignore list takes precedence if you run into the one in a million situation of; you've ignored the hosts friend.

 

[(PSN)Raven-Ghosthawk]

Would it work if you joining public matching, and it doesn't match you to a squad that has someone from your iList in it?

Edited June 9, 2020 by (PS4)Raven-Ghosthawk

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Raven-Ghosthawk said:

Would it work if you joining public matching, and it doesn't match you to a squad that has someone from your iList in it?

To answer that, I would need more information on how matchmaking is coded.

Does it take into account anything beyond open spots and ping?  I have no clue.  I'm sure it could be set up to do so, just not sure how much extra work that would take and if it would be even worth it versus any other option. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by MagPrime

[FadeToNull]

47 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Amazing, 4 pages of this.

For people who don't want their time wasted, you sure are wasting a lot of time trying to win an argument on the internet. 

The troll is eating well tonight.

[MagPrime]

11 minutes ago, FadeToNull said:

The troll is eating well tonight.

[(PSN)Raven-Ghosthawk]

(deleted)

Edited June 9, 2020 by (PS4)Raven-Ghosthawk

[SpawnTDK]

Am 7.6.2020 um 18:01 schrieb ZeroX4:

i force start every sortie mission i play and i meet ppl like u and they are like wtf cant u wait why force start?
and im like wait for what? i dont need ur help to do this mission and ur free to leave at any time so whats ur problem?
and they are like it would be nice to wait for others to press ready
and then i reply with yeah thx but no thx im not here to waste my time if u wanna waste ur hit leave do what u want to do and go find other squad
 

so actualy you are one of the many players why the community has become shait.

if your time is so expensive that you can't wait at all, why even bother running it with others? since you are a golden hero that needs no one else.

when i'm in a hurry, i at least have the decency the leave the group, and not force others to keep up with my crap and force start a mission

 

Edited June 9, 2020 by SpawnTDK

[sitfesz]

7 minutes ago, SpawnTDK said:

so actualy you are one of the many players why the community has become shait.

if your time is so expensive that you can't wait at all, why even bother running it with others? since you are a golden hero that needs no one else.

when i'm in a hurry, i at least have the decency the leave the group, and not force others to keep up with my crap and force start a mission

 

If their time is so expensive, why don't people leave the squad instead of whining about force start?
You don't want the same fissure mission next? Leave. You want to change your loadout? Leave. Your forma is finished? Leave. You are done with the invasion? Leave.

Leave the squad if you are not up to the next mission immediately. You are expecting others to do the same, while they are ready to continue. What is so special about you that makes you demand such things?

[SpawnTDK]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb sitfesz:

If their time is so expensive, why don't people leave the squad instead of whining about force start?
You don't want the same fissure mission next? Leave. You want to change your loadout? Leave. Your forma is finished? Leave. You are done with the invasion? Leave.

can't wait 20-30 seconds? leave

[MacKerris]

Everyone already has all the options you need. You can stay or you can go, whenever you want. If you don't like where you are and you don't do something about it, it's your fault.

[-HG-Lair360]

OMG.... the level of... no compasion and toxic.... is unreal here....

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

12 hours ago, dwqrf said:

So you try to open a random radiant relic in a public group, and when you don't even open it, you leave in fear of... Wasting it ? You didn't even lose anything, but you felt like it ? Radiant relic are such treasure for you, they need to be cherished and cared for, opened in one go or it's a disgrace ? Nobody care about what relic you put in public. It was a fissure on hydron, did it cross your mind that opening the relic was just a bonus while playing hydron for affinity ?

You literally argued that your lost time waiting for your squad to prepare for a mission is a huge deal. Then you literally argue that my lost time in a mission (certainly more than I would have usually waited on someone who isn't voting to start the mission unannounced) due to the incompetence of the rest of the squad is nothing? 

 

You really need to figure out what point you're trying to make here. Because what you have said so far has been ridiculous. 

 

 

 

Also, here's the thing, I already have all focus schools maxed out. I don't currently have any items not already at max rank. For you, farming XP might be a major incentive, but it isn't something that I need to worry about. 

 

And yes people do care about what relics you use in a fissure, because the value of the rewards in ducats, is tied to the tier of reward you get (except for the forma of course). And this time of year, the plat value of those ducats becomes a premium, because of tennocon. 

 

12 hours ago, dwqrf said:

So you deliberately ruin a full squad run of xp sharing + relic opening that could reach rot C + free iradiated relic at 25 just because of your own frustration of... What exactly ? Being carried too hard ? You talk about respect while leaving at first A, when 3 players obviously want to push it further ? That's closer to griefing than force starting here. You didn't even have to leave to do something important or else, you just left because of your feelings. That's childish. I think you spend too much time keyboard-warrioring the forum and the chat, and not enough playing the game.

That's nonsense and you know it. You seem frustrated that you have said silly things to defend your bad manners and been repeatedly called out on the flaws. You would be better off not making silly comments, than trying to double down with strawman attacks and ad hominem. 

12 hours ago, dwqrf said:

What benefit are you even talking about ? You think I need to use other players for my own benefit ? You are truly mistaken, I don't need anyone to play any mission, ever. I solo tridolons, I solo railjack, I solo survival for hours. The reason I play public while duo with new players mates is to ensure a fair flow of xp and ressources for them. More players = more loot and more xp, not that it matters to me, as I stopped needing those years ago.

My game is always set on public as I don't mind meeting people on my way to help them out. I play exclusively with Shepherd, Vazarin and Fosfor to be sure everyone in the squad get the xp I produce, while surviving as long as possible. I heal the objectives, players, and their pets. And I turn around to travel 500 meters to insta-rez a downed lost soul. But I'm the selfish one, right ? I always do everything I can so that the missions is a success and other players have a good time, but I don't need anyone to play the game for me, or to make me wait in lobby. If I have to wait a minute in extraction, I don't mind. But in lobby during a mission vote, the respect is to either accept or to quit squad, and if you get force started, it's on you. In the case that I'm the stranger in a premade squad that needs time, then I leave.

YOU are the one having a problem with other people's ways of playing the game. I don't.

Are those achievements significant in your eyes? Do you think that they justify you forcing a start on people who are unwilling or unable to play that mission at that time? Are you somehow more worthy of "respect" from your team, than they are of your respect? 

You have issues, pal. You might want to deal with them. 

11 hours ago, ZeroX4 said:

i dont have problem with anything and i shoul change something in my gameplay?
seems u have problem with some players so if u wanna change something start changing from urself

best option for u is not to play at all if u cant manage others behavior

You have a problem waiting for your squadmates to prepare for the mission. Your behaviour in forcing the start creates a problem for others. And that's a problem. 

And remember your best option is to not play with others at all if you can't manage their behaviour. Since you are saying that you are able to solo, that shouldn't be an issue for you. 

(Gosh everything you say really is a double edged sword, isn't it? You're literally slicing your own arguments to pieces.) 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, sitfesz said:

If their time is so expensive, why don't people leave the squad instead of whining about force start?
You don't want the same fissure mission next? Leave. You want to change your loadout? Leave. Your forma is finished? Leave. You are done with the invasion? Leave.

Leave the squad if you are not up to the next mission immediately. You are expecting others to do the same, while they are ready to continue. What is so special about you that makes you demand such things?

Latency is a thing. Sometimes you don't have a chance to part, or you get a really narrow window to do so. 

Understanding that you may not be facing the same situation as others is a major part of how compassion works. It seems that a lot of people are just not getting that. 

[Zimzala]

Just now, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Understanding that you may not be facing the same situation as others is a major part of how compassion works. It seems that a lot of people are just not getting that. 

Thing is, IME, while within GaaS games themsleves, there are plenty of awesome community members playing the game, on the forums, we get stuck with a much larger percentage of the gamers that don't actually have any compassion and empathy.

Also on the forums, we generaly have to deal with a higher percentage of gamer e-peen and Internet Cool Kids, and so many of them seem to think showing a lack of coapassion and emapathy is 'the thing', IME.

You can see that right in this thread.

My hope is often that games might teach these humans some compassion, even if my experience does not always prove that.

So far in warframe this group of humans that play are, IME, pretty small in number, just a loud percentage on the forums, like they are everywhere.

These people are the reason, IME, reasonable people often avoid teaming and engaging the gaming community in general.

You cannot even just hope they grow out of it or something, some of them I have met are older than I am, it's just a blight on our community, IMO.

[sitfesz]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Latency is a thing. Sometimes you don't have a chance to part, or you get a really narrow window to do so. 

Understanding that you may not be facing the same situation as others is a major part of how compassion works. It seems that a lot of people are just not getting that. 

They have 6-7 seconds and even more if it's not initiated with the repeat mission button. The system encourages spamming missions.
As much as I could leave, so are they, it's a double edged sword.

I'm waiting for an auto-leave feature, until then "It'S pUbLiC".

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

10 hours ago, MagPrime said:

Sadly, no.  That would make things fairly simple but then you have the conflict of whose ignore list takes precedence if you run into the one in a million situation of; you've ignored the hosts friend.

 

I don't think that one in a million would always be accurate. Leaving aside the population of the ignore list scaling up the probability, the game seems to select from the pool of lower pings first, so it would probably try to match us with nearby players who are active at the same times. 

I know it's just anecdotal, and I have no data to back it, but there have been times when I recognize playernames in my groups. There was a time doing Eidolons where the host was trying to do speed runs and parting from the group to leave faster. 

I got hit by migration in 3 runs, back to back and had it fail at least once. I whispered to the player explaining what his actions were doing, I didn't really care about the lost reward, but the others might have. He said he didn't realise that it was causing a problem and would try to be more aware of it in the future. 

So I guess either it's not one in a million or I should buy more lottery tickets. 

[MagPrime]

Just now, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I don't think that one in a million would always be accurate. Leaving aside the population of the ignore list scaling up the probability, the game seems to select from the pool of lower pings first, so it would probably try to match us with nearby players who are active at the same times. 

I know it's just anecdotal, and I have no data to back it, but there have been times when I recognize playernames in my groups. There was a time doing Eidolons where the host was trying to do speed runs and parting from the group to leave faster. 

I got hit by migration in 3 runs, back to back and had it fail at least once. I whispered to the player explaining what his actions were doing, I didn't really care about the lost reward, but the others might have. He said he didn't realise that it was causing a problem and would try to be more aware of it in the future. 

So I guess either it's not one in a million or I should buy more lottery tickets. 

That was just a stat I came up with on the spot.  Only reason I brought it up is because it's been an counter argument in previous threads, it has no basis in fact.

I really don't want to start adding disclaimers to my posts. 

[ZeroX4]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You have a problem waiting for your squadmates to prepare for the mission. Your behaviour in forcing the start creates a problem for others. And that's a problem. 

And remember your best option is to not play with others at all if you can't manage their behaviour. Since you are saying that you are able to solo, that shouldn't be an issue for you. 

(Gosh everything you say really is a double edged sword, isn't it? You're literally slicing your own arguments to pieces.) 

i dont have a problem waiting for u for any1 one else or for christmas i just dont want to and that is a difference 
same way i dont have a problem to cary any1 trough profit taker i just dont want to i didnt go online to carry ppl all day trough profit takeri logged in to play the game

idk is it so hard to understand?

so in the end i dont have problem with any1 or anything thats why why should i change anything

but im aware logic is not ur strongest aspect so let me give u perfect example

u and are in a room with 3rd person and that 3rd person farted realy hard
now me and u will go will go with option A or B and guess which will choose which

Option A - get out dont inhale his fart and get some fresh air
Option B - stay in that room inhale all of his farts and argue with him that he should not fart in a room someone can just leave

i would give u a tip so u could figure out answer but  i wanna see u struggle

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

Just now, sitfesz said:

They have 6-7 seconds and even more if it's not initiated with the repeat mission button. The system encourages spamming missions.
As much as I could leave, so are they, it's a double edged sword.

I'm waiting for an auto-leave feature, until then "It'S pUbLiC".

Here, let me quote something for you from a little higher up on the page. (The rest of the post is actually pretty good, you might want to check it out.) 

11 hours ago, MagPrime said:

(My goodness was it ALT+F4 inducing when this happened on the Surface, I had 3 minute load times, and this just made everything worse because I had no choice and no way to talk during load times)

Now, by my calculations 3 minutes is a little bit more than 10 seconds. I might not be doing the calculations right, so you might want to double check if that's right. 

Again you having a handful of seconds to bail, is all well and good, but being able to understand how your situation may not be their situation is how compassion works. Spend a little time thinking about it. 

[ZeroX4]

1 hour ago, SpawnTDK said:

so actualy you are one of the many players why the community has become shait.

if your time is so expensive that you can't wait at all, why even bother running it with others? since you are a golden hero that needs no one else.

when i'm in a hurry, i at least have the decency the leave the group, and not force others to keep up with my crap and force start a mission

 

dear boi do i login for ur or any1s pleasure? do i login to make u or any1 happy?
i dont really care about u or any1 not like u are worthless to me but more like u and others just exist and i dont mind it in same way i exist for u and others

so if someone can benefit from what im doing in game than who cares if u or any1 leech or not?

its kinda same principal as with (dont know proper english words) in factory where they cut wood they make that little wood shavings and someone comes and says "hay i got hamster can i take them since i use them as floor for my hamster?" and someone from factory would say nope go away

its not that i need to sacrifice something when i carry ppl so no reason not to do it

and then comes someone like u who thinks that deserve special treatment because his ego is hurt cause player X did something and ur offended and player X should be prevented from doing that thing again while other players just live with that and dont care

wanna some truth? players like u are in fact reason community is becoming "shalt"

players like me just want to play game and have fun
players like u have ego issues and thats the problem here

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

i dont have a problem waiting for u for any1 one else or for christmas i just dont want to and that is a difference 
same way i dont have a problem to cary any1 trough profit taker i just dont want to i didnt go online to carry ppl all day trough profit takeri logged in to play the game

idk is it so hard to understand?

so in the end i dont have problem with any1 or anything thats why why should i change anything

but im aware logic is not ur strongest aspect so let me give u perfect example

u and are in a room with 3rd person and that 3rd person farted realy hard
now me and u will go will go with option A or B and guess which will choose which

Option A - get out dont inhale his fart and get some fresh air
Option B - stay in that room inhale all of his farts and argue with him that he should not fart in a room someone can just leave

i would give u a tip so u could figure out answer but  i wanna see u struggle

Well personally I would leave. But from your posts what you seem to be saying is that you would not only stay there basking, but try to take them with you, wherever you are going. 

Now I know that logic isn't your strong suit, but is that really the message you wanted to send? That you would not leave? 

[sitfesz]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Again you having a handful of seconds to bail, is all well and good, but being able to understand how your situation may not be their situation is how compassion works. Spend a little time thinking about it. 

Sure, but that's not my problem. I was told multiple times that the basic public mindset is not having any expectations, so I'm not demanding anything from my squad at the cost of empathy. I only join to a few specific mission types in public, where I need the other players for like more relic reward options in fissures, enemy spawn count meatbags in survival etc.

If someone have technical difficulties, deal with them.

Quoting myself: I'm waiting for an auto-leave feature, until then "It'S pUbLiC".

 

Edited June 9, 2020 by sitfesz

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

15 minutes ago, sitfesz said:

Sure, but that's not my problem. I was told multiple times that the basic public mindset is not having any expectations, so I'm not demanding anything from my squad at the cost of empathy. I only join to a few specific mission types in public, where I need the other players for like more relic reward options in fissures, enemy spawn count meatbags in survival etc.

If someone have technical difficulties, deal with them.

 

Thanks for fixing the quote. 👍

 

And regarding what you wrote above, that's how compassion works, it's when you understand that even though you may not have a problem, others might. So them having technical difficulties, or in fact any other difficulties, and trying to deal with that is something that we can consider. 

And upon consideration, does it seem like a great idea to force start the missions, instead of just leaving and joining a new group, or do it solo? How is adding to someone's problems a better solution in your mind? 

Edited June 9, 2020 by (PS4)guzmantt1977
Quoted fixed.