Void relics but better

[Orion299]

Ok hear me out. Maximum of 4 players enter the game with 4 relics. Each gather 10 reactant and opens theirs. Each gives a blueprint which another can replicate but their own will be discarded? This is not right.

1. All 4 blueprints will be given to all 4 players.

(OR)

2. On selecting another ones blueprint, yours will not be discarded.

(OR)

3. Collecting additional reactant would let you get more than one blueprint. (In case of less than 4 players, parts are duplicated)

(OR)

4. WarFarm

 

Tell me what you guys think.

[krc473]

3 minutes ago, Orion299 said:

4. WarFarm

I think this point doesn’t make sense.

 

I think we should just keep it as is. If it was easier to get prime parts the drop chances may need to be adjusted.

[NinjaZeku]

1 hour ago, Orion299 said:

2. On selecting another ones blueprint, yours will not be discarded.

So, if everyone picks someone else's reward, nobody ever uses up Relics?

Yeah that seems fair and balanced.

Honestly, I see this as kind of a case of "you damn kids" - back in my day,
we had to go all the way to Rotation C in Survival and whatnot, barefoot, in the snow,
to even get a chance to get that one part we were actually after.

The current Relic system is ~fine. Relics are easily enough farmed
(there's even a bunch of people complaining they have too many to ever open),
and the drop rates, not least in light of Radshares, are so much better than what we had to deal with before.

If we could get stuff even easier, the system would get nerfed in some other way,
like ... maybe a per-day limit of Relics you can run, or something similarly atrocious.

[_Tormex_]

31 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

there's even a bunch of people complaining they have too many to ever open

Do they not understand how trading works?

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

The current system makes sense: 1 relic = 1 prime part.

You only start having problems when you have multiple runs of only common rewards, and then out of nowhere everyone in the party rolls the rare and you can only pick one, making you miss out on the other 3 rares. This is especially egregious when you are farming an endless fissure for Baro with randoms, as you really need those rares, regardless of what they are.

If anything, a deferral system would be the way to go. Defer a relic reward that you can't claim, then choose to sub it in the next time you crack a relic (max 1 stored reward), thus ensuring you never get screwed by the RNG. You still have the same 'one relic, one reward' dynamic, but with some amount of protection against cruel RNG.

[_Tormex_]

Just now, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

You only start having problems when you have multiple runs of only common rewards, and then out of nowhere everyone in the party rolls the rare and you can only pick one, making you miss out on the other 3 rares. This is especially egregious when you are farming an endless fissure for Baro with randoms, as you really need those rares, regardless of what they are.

If anything, a deferral system would be the way to go. Defer a relic reward that you can't claim, then choose to sub it in the next time you crack a relic (max 1 stored reward), thus ensuring you never get screwed by the RNG. You still have the same 'one relic, one reward' dynamic, but with some amount of protection against cruel RNG.

RNG is just part of life. You aren't going to always win. The current 1 relic 4 choices setup is already pretty generous and puts the odds in a space where players have more control. It sucks to get 3 rares and an uncommon, then immediately get 4 commons, but that's just part of the game.

I think the relic system already feels good for the most part and doesn't need any changes; except maybe increasing the Prime Vault to 3 frames again in a few cycles. But the drop rates are fine and the strategies given to players to circumvent the odds are great as-is.

[Orion299]

I think for the state of RNG in Warframe is, it is fair to have more control over the rewards. If we are sharing relics, why not share all the rewards as well? Since the posts above pointed out that RNG is in favour of common items, getting more of them isn't going to hurt the game's economy.

[Orion299]

10 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

So, if everyone picks someone else's reward, nobody ever uses up Relics?

Yeah that seems fair and balanced.

Honestly, I see this as kind of a case of "you damn kids" - back in my day,
we had to go all the way to Rotation C in Survival and whatnot, barefoot, in the snow,
to even get a chance to get that one part we were actually after.

The current Relic system is ~fine. Relics are easily enough farmed
(there's even a bunch of people complaining they have too many to ever open),
and the drop rates, not least in light of Radshares, are so much better than what we had to deal with before.

If we could get stuff even easier, the system would get nerfed in some other way,
like ... maybe a per-day limit of Relics you can run, or something similarly atrocious.

Well YOUR relic will be discarded if you choose to copy another relic anyway. Why discard it at all? You keep your relic drop by default. You have a choice of getting (at least one) copy of another players relic. Since there is a void trace bonus as well...

[Orion299]

11 hours ago, krc473 said:

I think this point doesn’t make sense.

 

I think we should just keep it as is. If it was easier to get prime parts the drop chances may need to be adjusted.

You just prove my point. It is not easy to get prime parts. Why not keep all the common parts that keep dropping?

[Orion299]

10 hours ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

The current system makes sense: 1 relic = 1 prime part.

You only start having problems when you have multiple runs of only common rewards, and then out of nowhere everyone in the party rolls the rare and you can only pick one, making you miss out on the other 3 rares. This is especially egregious when you are farming an endless fissure for Baro with randoms, as you really need those rares, regardless of what they are.

If anything, a deferral system would be the way to go. Defer a relic reward that you can't claim, then choose to sub it in the next time you crack a relic (max 1 stored reward), thus ensuring you never get screwed by the RNG. You still have the same 'one relic, one reward' dynamic, but with some amount of protection against cruel RNG.

1 Relic = 1 Prime part OK

4 Relics = 1 Prime part NOT OK

4 Players spend 1 Relic each and return with 1 reward. If it's a single rare drop, 3 relics are wasted. This is not right.

 

[NinjaZeku]

48 minutes ago, Orion299 said:

I think for the state of RNG in Warframe is, it is fair to have more control over the rewards.

The amount of control we have currently is pretty good for a loot-based system (again, SO MUCH BETTER than it used to be).

There's no need to make it "more fair" IMO ... at most, maybe up the %s for Uncommon & Rare on refined Relics a tiny bit.

33 minutes ago, Orion299 said:

It is not easy to get prime parts.

In what way?

If you're actually talking about just Prime parts, and not RARE Prime parts, then ... no, you're simply wrong there.

30 minutes ago, Orion299 said:

relics are wasted

Just think of them as an "entry fee" I guess, does that help?

BTW, see how I quoted multiple posts in one single post? You can do that too, no need to quadruple post.

[krc473]

1 hour ago, Orion299 said:

You just prove my point. It is not easy to get prime parts. Why not keep all the common parts that keep dropping?

How did I prove your point? Something can be quite easy and still be made easier. It is easy to get prime parts - if you don't get what you want, sell the stuff you did get and just buy what you want. I don't particularly want all the common parts that keep dropping, the only use would be selling them as prime junk for plat.

[Keiyadan]

well i does remind me of the void key system we once had but well
where you would play one relic in a group all got the reward  so 1 relic/void key 1 up to x rewards in the old days
like survival used to be every rota c you get a part so you could stay hours with spending only one relic / void key to do the mission but come out of the mission with a lot of prime parts well the good old farming days

[Rawbeard]

15 hours ago, Orion299 said:

This is not right.

why? they can pick their own blueprint. 4 relics. 4 rewards. no more, no less.

[Orion299]

Y'all worse than StackOverflow 🤣 btw I think most of you work for DE or something (esp. @NinjaZeku). Grind away. Peace.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

20 hours ago, Orion299 said:

1 Relic = 1 Prime part OK

4 Relics = 1 Prime part NOT OK

4 Players spend 1 Relic each and return with 1 reward. If it's a single rare drop, 3 relics are wasted. This is not right.

 

But each player is walking away with their own copy of the part. Each player puts in a relic, and receives a prime part in return, regardless of how many players are present. That's how it works. Farming fissures in a group CANNOT return more parts than farming fissures solo, or else the balance of the game is messed up. Farming in a group already increases the collective chance of obtaining rarer prime parts, which is fair. Getting more parts because you are in a group is not fair to players who cannot play with others for various reasons.

[Orion299]

1 hour ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

But each player is walking away with their own copy of the part. Each player puts in a relic, and receives a prime part in return, regardless of how many players are present. That's how it works. Farming fissures in a group CANNOT return more parts than farming fissures solo, or else the balance of the game is messed up. Farming in a group already increases the collective chance of obtaining rarer prime parts, which is fair. Getting more parts because you are in a group is not fair to players who cannot play with others for various reasons.

Well, doing relics in a group IS statistically better than doing it solo. Warframe encourages team play and you could see that in affinity bonus. Arguing people who cannot play solo should get their own reward in par with groups is stupid.

What I am saying is very simple. All of the nay sayers above are quoting how it would break the balance or squads should not receive a better output, which is utter bs. The game is already rigged toward giving better reward for team play, else it would just be warframe single player all the way. You don't do a random relic mission solo. Be honest 😉.

Note that most of the replies denying this claim is from old members with high reputation who have the mentality "since I grinded, you should too". Please don't reply if you are putting that kind of argument. Peace.