Make all status stacking worthwhile

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

The status meta in Warframe was shook up just last year, but is already pretty stale.

That shake up was really good, and made most procs at least a little useful, but the meta is all stacking status procs as much as possible for maximum DoT...

- Heat always good, more procs the better

- Slash/Toxin also good against armour/shields

- Viral or Corrosive really good up to 10 procs, then useless.

Everything else would be nice, only if they proc instead of any of the above that's actively a detriment - to the point where a minus riven is desirable.

This makes all status builds pretty similar: either Viral or occasionally Corrosive (but mostly Viral) with Hunter Munitions (if crit hybrid) or Heat (if status) with more Heat than Viral so that you don't stall on 10x procs. Sometimes it's even worth using weaker unranked 60/60 mods for the Viral to ensure that Heat procs more.

I think the solution is to make ALL procs stackable, and ALL procs should result in  extra damage if over-stacked.

So:

- All procs can keep their current initial effect.

- Once that proc is in effect (2nd proc for Electrical or Radiation, any proc after shields stripped for Magnetic, any after armour stripped for Corrosive, etc) additional stacks tick damage over time.

- All procs should stack their damage type with appropriate modifiers. This would be a nerf for Slash (as it currently does True damage) but boost Impact and Puncture in particular. Being mostly Impact would no longer ruin a status weapon.

- Non-damage procs should have MUCH stronger effects, even against those that are resistant to DoT... 5x Cold should freeze solid, 5x Blast should leave concussed enemies staggering about unable to fight back, etc. You're still going to prefer killing enemies, but it would give these utility against Demolysts, Capture targets and the like.

- Past 10x procs of ANYTHING you'd be doing DoT, making all the status types worthwhile. We could have fun with their various effects without losing the essential utility of killing stuff.

 

 

[BiancaRoughfin]

The problem with Meta is Meta its self. People see a Streamer doing ludicrous damage with some combination and think its the only good one, then feel afraid of trying anything else thinking others may frown them or call them noob for playing differently.

15 minutes ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

- Once that proc is in effect (2nd proc for Electrical or Radiation, any proc after shields stripped for Magnetic, any after armour stripped for Corrosive, etc) additional stacks tick damage over time.

In some games i enjoy stacking DoT on my enemies and enjoy watch them agonize to death but in the fast pace of Warframe, personally i prefer dealing large damages instantly to my enemies and killing them instead of waiting for DoT to stack. This is one of the reasons i find Slash procs to be highly overrated.

Personally i dont like the idea of every elemental effect adding a DoT as it stacks, i think further stacks should just add to the overall status duration instead.

22 minutes ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

- All procs should stack their damage type with appropriate modifiers. This would be a nerf for Slash (as it currently does True damage) but boost Impact and Puncture in particular. Being mostly Impact would no longer ruin a status weapon.

Wile Slash Procs deal True Damage, their damage values are still affected by the damage inflicted to enemies which is affected by Armor, the problem is, Slash procs arent calculated based on the Weapon`s Slash damage alone but on the entirely of the damage it deals and delt when the proc occurred.
[DE] did propose a wile back to change Slash so it would only deal procs based on the weapon`s Total Slash damage but the Slash Fandom littered the forums with topics crying about the change. Wile it would substantially reduce the damage some weapons delt with Slash Procs, others would be dealing far more these days, not to mention Slash procs would probably still be ignoring shields now which wouldnt make any sense.

Overall i dont think Procs should add any DoT when further stacking above its limit as some weapons would become way too powerful. Imagine my Kuva Kohm for example that has 300%+ Status chance how fast it could stack effects?

[taiiat]

sure, Impact isn't quite worthwhile and Puncture is still not really something you'd intentionally want to get.

i don't see a problem with non DoT's having a stack limit, personally. if they were infinite then they couldn't have interesting effects, because they would have to be balanced around stacking a hundred times or more.
they simply need useful things to stack 10 times. if it's useful, then it's helping. some Damage Types just don't have useful things to stack.

so like:

• only 1 stack of Radiation is really useful, after that we don't care anymore. 
• why Gas is limited to 10x when other DoT's aren't.... beats me. just why.
• Blast just plain sucks now that it doesn't CC Enemies, the only fix is going to be...... making it CC Enemies again(it could also reduce Accuracy but doing just that is meh). nerfing it was a waste of time, imagine that! :D
• Magnetic is okay as the Shield version of Viral - i know it's not relevant usually but there are some Enemies it is relevant on. my suggestion was to make it also reduce the Shield Gate and past 5x actually make you deal increased Damage on the Shield Gate. not a huge thing but it would essentially let stacking Magnetic on s Shielded Enemy increase the Damage you deal to Health.
• Electricity is actually better than Fire, or at worst equal, it's ironic that you don't even acknowledge its existence. :)
• Ice is alright - i wish the cap was a bit higher though.
• Impact... tries to have some CC.
• Puncture is like Blast. meh.

so again, they just need useful things to be able to stack. and then they're worthwhile having as they will make it easier to Kill Enemies.

 

however turning everything into a DoT sounds lame and generic. no thanks. and it would reinforce the optimal Modding for DoT's onto everything, reducing Modding variety, so it's a double lose situation. yeah, definitely no, don't nerf the entire game on me.

9 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

[DE] did propose a wile back to change Slash so it would only deal procs based on the weapon`s Total Slash damage but the Slash Fandom littered the forums with topics crying about the change.

...............it was a very valid complaint. because it would have made a lot of Weapons significantly worse. basically nerfing all Weapons that weren't highly Slash weighted. 

"don't nerf most Weapons while effectively buffing others to make a small subset of Weapons objectively superior to all of the others" is not a complaint that you should look down upon.

[ShortCat]

First of all, I think 14 on foot & additional 7 RJ only damage types, with corresponding status procs, is way too much bloat. If we are talking about status rework, I would start by reducing number of damage types. I would argue for IPS as the 3 base physical damage types + toxin/fire/heat/cold as 4 base elements.
Then each damage type can fulfill its destinct role and there would be less overlap in functionality. A generic DoT for every element certainly sounds boring.

[CephalonCarnage]

I think there was too much emphasis on the environmental procs over the physical ones (except slash, why does it bypass armour, when gas doesn't?) and it often makes no sense. Many of them make no sense these days anyway. But the original concept that impact did extra damage v shields should be reflected in its procs, as puncture should against armour. And slash really shouldn't be a "bypass all damage resistance" as thats just crazy. That it is so uselful, just goes to show how unbalanced the harder game is with respect to dealing damage.

One thing I'd like to see though, is only combining elemental procs if the mods are adjacent. I'd like Heat + Electricity without being forced to have them combine sometimes.

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, gbjbaanb said:

I'd like Heat + Electricity without being forced to have them combine sometimes.

man, that would be amazing. 

[Tyreaus]

On 2021-03-02 at 2:07 AM, ShortCat said:

First of all, I think 14 on foot & additional 7 RJ only damage types, with corresponding status procs, is way too much bloat. If we are talking about status rework, I would start by reducing number of damage types. I would argue for IPS as the 3 base physical damage types + toxin/fire/heat/cold as 4 base elements.
Then each damage type can fulfill its destinct role and there would be less overlap in functionality. A generic DoT for every element certainly sounds boring.

Agreed. Part of the issue with so many procs is that even if you can have sufficiently unique procs for every element, they all fight for mod space and have to be useful. That's great up until you have something like Blast trying to compete with Viral and you can have only one of the two.

FWIW I had an idea to loop in existing procs into the four base elements, where:

1. Heat strips armour with diminishing returns (so approaches total strip but never hits 100%), or strips armour's damage resistance directly (so max enemy damage reduction becomes 50%), with fire DoT and panic
2. Electric increases damage against shields and has a solid AoE DoT
3. Toxin increases damage against health, applies Radiation CC, and a single-target DoT (with no shield bypass)
4. Cold slows targets and decreases accuracy and increases damage taken overall

And the combined elements would have no procs, like RJ, but take the above schema - heat for anti-armour, electric for anti-shield, toxin for anti-health, cold for overall - to deal bonus damage based on its composition. So something like Blast (cold + heat) would deal a small bonus to everything with a slightly higher bonus against armour, Corrosive (toxin + electric) would have large bonuses against shield and health but nothing for armour, etc.

It could also be that physical procs have a generic "bleed" proc (with no bonuses or detriments, whether or not it still ignores armour), with Impact, Puncture, and Slash themselves being more like combined elements: not having their own procs, but carrying bonuses against shields, armour, and health respectively. That way the base damage composition of a weapon only affects up-front damage and you don't have something like a high status Impact weapon being a lot less useful than a high status Slash one. (And for 'realism' sake: blunt weapons can still cause internal bleeding, so I think it works)

That does heavily reduce how effective Condition Overload is but at that point, one could even argue for reverting that mod to its exponential form - it'd be capped at 5, after all.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

On 2021-03-01 at 9:08 PM, BiancaRoughfin said:

DE] did propose a wile back to change Slash so it would only deal procs based on the weapon`s Total Slash damage but the Slash Fandom...

To be fair, that would make Hunter Munitions even more dominant than it already is - a crit weapon with HM would always be better than a Slash-dominant status one because the former would be total Slash damage.

I'd just make all procs a proportion of the total damage, but make them apply their status type modifiers.

On 2021-03-01 at 9:08 PM, BiancaRoughfin said:

Overall i dont think Procs should add any DoT when further stacking above its limit as some weapons would become way too powerful. Imagine my Kuva Kohm for example that has 300%+ Status chance how fast it could stack effects?

I mean, it already stacks Slash forever and is boringly meta, it's already arguably OP (relative to other primaries, obviously fairly average on the Melee scale).

Meanwhile the Strun Wraith does insane procs but is MR garbage because they're all Impact.

On 2021-03-01 at 9:35 PM, taiiat said:

Electricity is actually better than Fire, or at worst equal, it's ironic that you don't even acknowledge its existence. :)

It doesn't stack - it's definitely better than it was, but really you need bane mods and a hybrid build to take advantage.

On 2021-03-01 at 9:35 PM, taiiat said:

only 1 stack of Radiation is really useful, after that we don't care anymore

Yup. Radiation has good modifiers, but you don't want it (a little bit is good, but it needs to be the weakest, and that means you never mod for it).

On 2021-03-01 at 9:35 PM, taiiat said:

why Gas is limited to 10x when other DoT's aren't.... beats me. just why

It was awesome back when it spread Toxin, now it's really weak. Yes, it should just stack.

On 2021-03-01 at 9:35 PM, taiiat said:

Magnetic is okay as the Shield version of Viral - i know it's not relevant usually but there are some Enemies it is relevant on. my suggestion was to make it also reduce the Shield Gate and past 5x actually make you deal increased Damage on the Shield Gate. not a huge thing but it would essentially let stacking Magnetic on s Shielded Enemy increase the Damage you deal to Health.

I'd make the proc on Magnetic be "Feedback" - massive damage (at least 200%) to underlying health (ignoring any armour) as long as they have a shield, but doing no damage to the shield. It would be devastating against shielded enemies, but about as weak as it is now against unshielded.

This would make Magnetic dominant against Corpus, which it needs to be given its utterly useless vs Infested or Grineer.

Mind you, that would also make Magnetic a really dangerous proc for every frame except Inaros and Nidus.

On 2021-03-02 at 10:07 AM, ShortCat said:

A generic DoT for every element certainly sounds boring

Yes, initial procs should be interesting and more powerful. Cold should matter, etc. But stacking procs are only going to matter if they're damage. Nobody needs stacks of Radiation confusion, Puncture damage reduction etc.

Once you have the fun proc, additional procs should be damage, that would make taking fun procs into a mission more viable, not make you choose between taking, say, Cold (which has interesting effects but won't kill many things) vs Slash.

On 2021-03-03 at 4:26 PM, gbjbaanb said:

I think there was too much emphasis on the environmental procs over the physical ones

In part this is how we mod for them. Combined procs take 2 60/60 mods, meaning that Viral/Corrosive ends up as 120% of the combined damage of any/all IPS. It's hard to get anything else to compete with it, which is why weapons with base Heat/Slash are so much more useful.

[BiancaRoughfin]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

To be fair, that would make Hunter Munitions even more dominant than it already is - a crit weapon with HM would always be better than a Slash-dominant status one because the former would be total Slash damage.

Uh, no it wouldnt because if you put Hunters Munition on a weapon with no Slash damage it would proc 0 damage with the proposed change wile currently it applies damage based on the weapon's total damage.

Just to clarify -

As is: A weapon with 25 Puncture, 25 Impact and 50 Slash has a total of 100 damage, this means if Slash procs, it will deal 35% of 100.
Using a weapon with 50 Puncture and 50 Impact has 100 damage, if Slash procs from Stance of HM, you deal 35% of that 100 damage.

As would be: A weapon with 25 Puncture, 25 Impact and 50 Slash, Total damage 100, Slash procs it will deal 35% of 50 which is the Slash damage.
Using a weapon with 50 Puncture and 50 Impact and 0 Slash would proc 0 Slash damage.

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

It doesn't stack (Electricity)

incorrect.

2 hours ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

It was awesome back when it spread Toxin, now it's really weak. Yes, it should just stack.

and i don't know why it doesn't either. Electricity is just straight better than Gas because you can keep stacking it and Gas can't plus that Gas doesn't scale with your Mods.
what are they even trying to achieve with Gas, i can't tell. what is it even supposed to be good for.

2 hours ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

I'd make the proc on Magnetic be "Feedback" - massive damage (at least 200%) to underlying health (ignoring any armour) as long as they have a shield, but doing no damage to the shield. It would be devastating against shielded enemies, but about as weak as it is now against unshielded.

way too hyperniche. you've just made a Status Effect that literally only affects Toxin and does nothing otherwise.

 

 

2 hours ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

Once you have the fun proc, additional procs should be damage, that would make taking fun procs into a mission more viable, not make you choose between taking, say, Cold (which has interesting effects but won't kill many things) vs Slash.

still makes Damage Types feel quite samey.

2 hours ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

I mean, it already stacks Slash forever and is boringly meta, it's already arguably OP (relative to other primaries, obviously fairly average on the Melee scale).
Meanwhile the Strun Wraith does insane procs but is MR garbage because they're all Impact.

did you forget the Shotgun nerfs? 
Kuva Kohm with 370% Status (2x Status Elemental, Shotgun Savvy) and Shotgun Spazz, will apply 13 Slash Status per Second, while a Braton Prime would apply 10 Slash Status per Second.

while Strun Wraith doesn't struggle to have a purpose because it's Impact based, but rather that its Status rate is... basically the same as Kuva Kohm, which is "meh". it used to have a role of extreme Status, and now Strun Wraith simply does not have a role at all.
very few Shotguns are anything special when it comes to Status, anymore.

[syl42]

Phantasma, but I don't know if we can call that a shotgun.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

16 hours ago, taiiat said:

did you forget the Shotgun nerfs? 

Nope, but under that I had a Khom riven that got every pellet to always proc slash. 

16 hours ago, taiiat said:

Kuva Kohm with 370% Status (2x Status Elemental, Shotgun Savvy) and Shotgun Spazz, will apply 13 Slash Status per Second,

That's still a lot of slash procs.

16 hours ago, taiiat said:

very few Shotguns are anything special when it comes to Status, anymore.

If you're comparing to the old Tig Prime meta then sure, nothing does that 20 Slash procs in a single hit thing anymore, but status shoguns are still strong (relative to primaries).

1 hour ago, syl42 said:

Phantasma, but I don't know if we can call that a shotgun

Yeah, beam shotguns are status monsters right now, mainly due to strong multishot mods and the way multishot adds proc ticks to beams. Add Blaze make it easy to keep Heat top of the proc stack and you have a meta.

16 hours ago, taiiat said:

still makes Damage Types feel quite samey

Yeah, I guess, but at the moment they're mostly useless. Like negative Impact rivens are desirable because Impact is so rubbish that you'd rather do less damage than have it proc.

16 hours ago, taiiat said:

way too hyperniche. you've just made a Status Effect that literally only affects Toxin and does nothing otherwise

It would fit with the paper/scissors/stone design intent - Toxin would remain a lot more consistently useful, while Magnetic would be the thing to bring against shielded enemies.

Look at Magnetic now - it strips shields but then is useless, while Toxin bypasses shields.

Given that Magnetic is weak against health and armour types it has a proc that basically makes enemies take less damage from it, which feels a little off, especially when Toxin exists.

Hence 'Feedback' procs would be a little unique. Lean in to Magnetic's inherent problem with shields and make it a strength, do massive damage to enemies while they're shielded, but the same weak damage as now once stripped.

Or you could play it safer and use Toxin to bypass shields but do more consistent damage (but significantly less to shielded targets).

Impact could have Magnetic's current proc, giving it an actual use.

Probably one for its own thread.

19 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Uh, no it wouldnt because if you put Hunters Munition on a weapon with no Slash damage it would proc 0 damage with the proposed change wile currently it applies damage based on the weapon's total damage.

Oh, that would make it almost useless. The vast majority of weapons with HM have no inherent Slash, and those with inherent Slash can proc directly.

I'm sick of HM, but I don't want to kill it entirely.

Rather than nerf the only game in town we should uplift everything else.

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

Nope, but under that I had a Khom riven that got every pellet to always proc slash. 

but that's the past. we're not playing in the past. now you have 7.5% Status to work off of, not 25%.

2 hours ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

That's still a lot of slash procs.

it's quite a few, but it's not a whole lot more than just some Assault Rifle doing the same thing. i.e. it's not something special.

3 hours ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

status shoguns are still strong (relative to primaries).

i literally just shows you an Assault Rifle that does almost the same thing. incorrect.

3 hours ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

Yeah, I guess, but at the moment they're mostly useless.

making them mostly the same isn't really better, it's just a different sin.

3 hours ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

Like negative Impact rivens are desirable because Impact is so rubbish that you'd rather do less damage than have it proc.

not anymore really, IPS weighting being removed makes -Impact Rivens far less useful than they weer. you'd need to also have +Slash on it and then use another Slash Mod on top of that.

3 hours ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

The vast majority of weapons with HM have no inherent Slash, and those with inherent Slash can proc directly.

not anymore, since again IPS weighting being removed. Hunter Munitions is now important even on Slash heavy Weapons.

 

 

 

 

you're.... living in the past man. don't rate the game and try to make changes to it based on not now the game works currently.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

2 minutes ago, taiiat said:

I literally just shows you an Assault Rifle that does almost the same thing

Yes. We agree: shotguns are now on a par with assault rifles. Either can get about the same number of procs.

I think it was a problem that shoguns were pure status monsters

3 minutes ago, taiiat said:

you're.... living in the past man.

Don't get me wrong here: I've been here a looooong time, but I think the status nerf to shotguns was an overwhelmingly good thing (even though I had maxed god rivens/builds for Kohm and Tig Prime at the time).

I think the 2020 Status rework was a huge improvement, but they shouldn't stop there, there's still work to be done.

In short, I want change, just more of it 😄

8 minutes ago, taiiat said:

, since again IPS weighting being removed. Hunter Munitions is now important even on Slash heavy Weapons

Yeah, I think removing the IPS 4x weighing made combined stats (which are always at least 120% base damage) dominant, and I don't think that's a good thing when Heat, Toxin and Slash are the meta.

21 minutes ago, taiiat said:

not anymore, since again IPS weighting being removed. Hunter Munitions is now important even on Slash heavy Weapons

I mean... Yes. I use it on just about every crit primary with the exception of a few very Slash dominant Status hybrid builds as it is. I think HM basically being mandatory on every crit-capabable is boring.

I think DE know this too - something to fix this is kind of inevitable. I'd rather they boosted every other stat type, rather than nerf Slash.

 

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

Yes. We agree: shotguns are now on a par with assault rifles. Either can get about the same number of procs.
I think it was a problem that shoguns were pure status monsters

it gave Shotguns a role, Weapon Categories should do something different rather than just being more or less Damage and more or less Fire Rate. eh.

2 hours ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

Don't get me wrong here: I've been here a looooong time, but I think the status nerf to shotguns was an overwhelmingly good thing

the point was you're making it seem like you're basing a lot of your decisions on ways the game was in the past, and isn't today. 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

Yeah, I think removing the IPS 4x weighing made combined stats (which are always at least 120% base damage) dominant, and I don't think that's a good thing when Heat, Toxin and Slash are the meta.

 

2 hours ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

I mean... Yes. I use it on just about every crit primary with the exception of a few very Slash dominant Status hybrid builds as it is. I think HM basically being mandatory on every crit-capabable is boring.

Combined Elements will be naturally weighted the most now, yes. kinda good overall as long as one wasn't trying to apply Slash Status. and if one was, then no matter what the Slash weight now it's Hunter Munitions or just don't rely on Slash Status as much.

you can always keep a lone Element along with your main Combined, you don't have to miss out on that. it's kinda neat for Elemental DoT's to get some more prominence by changing the weighting. there's also Primed Charged Shell, Heated Charge, and Fever Strike to let each Weapon Category be able to heavily specialize.
you keep leaving out Elec DoT though, which i don't know how to respond other than to chuckle.

[Tiltskillet]

On 2021-03-01 at 1:35 PM, taiiat said:

Electricity is actually better than Fire, or at worst equal, it's ironic that you don't even acknowledge its existence.

Something more than the AoE component?

 

[taiiat]

7 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Something more than the AoE component?

partly that it's AoE so that you can overalap Enemies, and also that because it's AoE it can Headshot. and it deals one more DoT tick than Fire.

something something, watch me one-mag this Kyta Raknoid right through its Armor, Et Cetera.

[Tiltskillet]

3 hours ago, taiiat said:

partly that it's AoE so that you can overalap Enemies, and also that because it's AoE it can Headshot. and it deals one more DoT tick than Fire.

It's been maybe a year now, but when I tested this I was getting some better damage ticks from heat with headshots than otherwise.  It's so long ago now it wouldn't surprise me if there was some detail I overlooked at the time.   I'll look at this again.

It'd make some sense if heat procs couldn't headshot, since they can't (sfaik) on Sonar weakpoints.     Electric procs do, which is one of the main reasons I play around with them.

edit:   Definitely getting headshot multiplied heat ticks in the Sim.   Ticks of 10 with body shots, 42 with headshots.  (100% crit chance, no element Hystrix.)  Still not working with Sonar.

(Also, I'd forgotten that heat procs keep on building up  as long as they're refreshed before all stacks expire.  Or is this a display bug?  It seems pretty stupid, and definitely does not happen with other dots.)

[OmegaVoid]

6 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Also, I'd forgotten that heat procs keep on building up  as long as they're refreshed before all stacks expire.  Or is this a display bug?  It seems pretty stupid

According to the wiki, yup, Heat DoT increases indefinitely. And yes, it's sorta crazy (though only when it takes longer than 6 seconds to kill the thing you're hitting).

On 2021-03-01 at 9:35 PM, taiiat said:

Blast just plain sucks now that it doesn't CC Enemies, the only fix is going to be...... making it CC Enemies again(it could also reduce Accuracy but doing just that is meh).

Yeah. Would be nice if maybe the first Blast proc ragdolls, then subsequent procs just stack the reduced accuracy. I miss the ragdolls so much.

On 2021-03-01 at 9:35 PM, taiiat said:

Magnetic is okay as the Shield version of Viral - i know it's not relevant usually but there are some Enemies it is relevant on.

Yeah, I feel like I had a minor epiphany when I figured it doesn't actually matter that Magnetic isn't worth building for -- because the Cold and Electric Mods it's made from are still useful for other damage types.

Innate Magnetic OTOH rocks against anything with shields 'cos you can build with Viral and get the best of both worlds. 😃

[taiiat]

15 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

edit:   Definitely getting headshot multiplied heat ticks in the Sim.   Ticks of 10 with body shots, 42 with headshots.  (100% crit chance, no element Hystrix.)  Still not working with Sonar.

(Also, I'd forgotten that heat procs keep on building up  as long as they're refreshed before all stacks expire.  Or is this a display bug?  It seems pretty stupid, and definitely does not happen with other dots.)

i was saying that because Electric has an AoE, that it can Headshot - meaning that the AoE can Headshot. shooting an Enemy in the Head works for any DoT, ye. Electric is just able to do it twice. :)

when there are >10 DoT numbers at once IIRC, the game will thesedays start tallying them all together and displaying one number per Second per Damage Type, rather than an ocean of Numbers like in the older days.

8 hours ago, OmegaVoid said:

Innate Magnetic OTOH rocks against anything with shields 'cos you can build with Viral and get the best of both worlds.

yeah, hence the strong popularity of Magnetic Nukor. extra Status Effect and free strength vs Shields.

[Tiltskillet]

22 hours ago, taiiat said:

i was saying that because Electric has an AoE, that it can Headshot - meaning that the AoE can Headshot. shooting an Enemy in the Head works for any DoT, ye. Electric is just able to do it twice. :)

 

Ah, gotcha.

22 hours ago, taiiat said:

when there are >10 DoT numbers at once IIRC, the game will thesedays start tallying them all together and displaying one number per Second per Damage Type, rather than an ocean of Numbers like in the older days.

I mean that heat procs don't expire as long as you apply at least one more within 6 seconds.  Like, if I have 20 procs, I'll lose them all if I don't refresh--as expected.  But if I merely apply one more right before that happens, the number of procs on the status bar goes to 21, the damage popups go up accordingly, and I get another 6 seconds to repeat the process.

If I  try the same thing with any other dots, I constantly losing the oldest ones as I'm applying the new ones.  Which makes a lot more sense, honestly.

Although to tie it back to the OP, @(XBOX)KayAitch which way would you want your proposed damage procs to behave?

[syl42]

I'm not sure you can refresh the duration of Heat. Try to stack as much Heat as possible on an enemy, and at some point, you won't be able to add more stacks.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

6 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Although to tie it back to the OP, @(XBOX)KayAitch which way would you want your proposed damage procs to behave?

I'd just have each proc last whatever, I think 6s, but affected by duration mods and it doesn't have to be the same for all types. Add another proc and it has its own timer.

So take a non-damage proc like Cold. Currently it slows enemies up to 70% with 10x procs. I'd make it 99% at 5x proc and make the 6th proc tick damage instead, at least until the 1st proc expired. 

Every proc over 5x you could do within 6s would tick damage, so any excess from the effect was applied as Cold DoT ticks.

This would:

- Make additional ticks matter.

- Make cool/fun effects worth taking into missions, or at least not needed by being not as good as Slash once any effect has been applied.

- Make maxed out effects revert to damage, because ultimately that's what guns in a game are for.

 

 

[OmegaVoid]

9 hours ago, syl42 said:

I'm not sure you can refresh the duration of Heat. Try to stack as much Heat as possible on an enemy, and at some point, you won't be able to add more stacks.

Each new application of Ignited Status will refresh the duration, and add the value of its DoT to the single existing Heat DoT.

The DoT keeps ticking away for as long as the target remains Ignited.

Compare to the other DoT Statuses, in which each instance of DoT is separate and has its own timer.

[Tiltskillet]

20 hours ago, syl42 said:

I'm not sure you can refresh the duration of Heat. Try to stack as much Heat as possible on an enemy, and at some point, you won't be able to add more stacks.

Maybe there's an upper limit, but it stacks at least into the 700s.  I was curious if maybe it stopped at 999--displayed, anyway--but even with 0 damage mods on my Hystrix, Corrupted Heavy Gunners burn to cinders well before then.   There might be a better target or weapon to use, but the question seems pretty academic at this point.

After playing around with this some more, I really don't think it's a display error, since the target health bars do seem to melt faster and faster.