It's time to nerf Wukong

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Literally just buffing his 4 would remedy the problem. Because this problem didn’t start until his 4 was nerfed and players, instead of focusing Wukongs other abilities around supporting his 4, started using the other abilities for their own individual merits. And since Wuclone is his best damage option now that’s what everyone gravitated to optimizing.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

21 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

There are some hints about what it might look like from the Pablo interview with Brozime last weekend.

I honestly hate the fact that Pablo thinks Wukong is OP. Because he was a great step forward in making minions good, but if he’s just going to reduce its effectiveness down to the level of the other summonable minions then that just destroys any chance of minions ever actually being improved on.

 

[Doomyo89]

4 hours ago, (PSN)aarott said:

What if I told you that DE is among the people complaining about wukong over-representation?

so fixing this issue is punishing wukong players for liking the frame? 

[sunderthefirmament]

51 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Literally just buffing his 4 would remedy the problem. Because this problem didn’t start until his 4 was nerfed and players, instead of focusing Wukongs other abilities around supporting his 4, started using the other abilities for their own individual merits. And since Wuclone is his best damage option now that’s what everyone gravitated to optimizing.

I'm not opposed to some buffs/changes to Wukong's 4 (and exalted weapons in general).  But a buffed 4 wouldn't beat out the utility of Perspicacity on my general rescue/spy/all purpose Wukong build.  There's really very little point to using melee now when a bramma shot will clear an entire room.

 

Also, I don't think I'd even notice clone nerfs.  But I'm a control freak, so I hate relying on AI.  I imagine there are some players who let the clone do everything, but I almost never give it my primary weapon.  And I definitely don't strip my loadout down to make sure both my clone and I are using a primary.  Down slams are way too important for mobility.

 

I'm worried that the nerfs will target both the clone and cloudwalker, but at the same time I kind of think cloudwalker needs it.  You can effectively compare it to the Sorceress' teleport in Diablo 2.  It's an absurdly efficient way to skip content.  When Blizzard made Diablo 3, they put a hefty cooldown on the teleport spell because they didn't want players to be able to skip content so efficiently.  Cloudwalker is Warframe's best content skip.  I don't think it would be out of line to say it's the most valuable utility power in the entire game.

 

As far as the OP's suggestion goes... eh.  I don't love it.  And this is off topic, but I would much rather see changes to Hall of Mirrors than any frame receiving a copy of it.  Mirage deserves a rework due to her egg-timer buff status.  I would love it if her illusions were more like the clones and phantasms created by the Guild Wars 2 Mesmer class.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

I honestly hate the fact that Pablo thinks Wukong is OP. Because he was a great step forward in making minions good, but if he’s just going to reduce its effectiveness down to the level of the other summonable minions then that just destroys any chance of minions ever actually being improved on.

 

We'll see, obviously.  But I feel like one thing they are very fixated on, not just now but lately, is afk potential.  And maybe there is a lot more of this going on than is apparent. (Apparent to me, anyway.)  If that's the case, they probably don't have to crush Wukong completely in order to address it.

[(PSN)aarott]

2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

We'll see, obviously.  But I feel like one thing they are very fixated on, not just now but lately, is afk potential... If that's the case, they probably don't have to crush Wukong completely in order to address it.

Yeah, what this tenno said. Probably just give some kind of timer to wuclone to put it on par with other summons, maybe nerf it's ranged abilities, and curtail a couple of the seven or so things cloudwalk can do. Might maybe even throw a bone by giving staff and clone some better synergy, like extra duration on staff kill or something. I don't think he'll need to be killed as hard as valkyr or slightly-old ember was. 

 

I don't see them needing to nerf Defy, even though as an Atlas enjoyer I'm jealous of the instant 1500 armour kongs can get. And I hope they don't nerf the passive, because then I won't be able to crack jokes about kong players needing extra lives to get by. 

[Uhkretor]

2 hours ago, Doomyo89 said:

punishing wukong players for liking the frame

... When someone likes using a certain equipment, they'll still use it regardless...

But when someone claims he/she likes using a certain equipment because of a specific functionality, or even of consequences derived of said functionality, that's as much "like it" as any gold digger "liking" someone... And from what I've read a few posts ago, your case isn't the one I mentioned ^up there^...

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

We'll see, obviously.  But I feel like one thing they are very fixated on, not just now but lately, is afk potential.  And maybe there is a lot more of this going on than is apparent. (Apparent to me, anyway.)  If that's the case, they probably don't have to crush Wukong completely in order to address it.

Well when they get rid of a frames only ability that has them directly dealing with enemies themselves, of course it’s going to result in AFKing.

[Doomyo89]

28 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

... When someone likes using a certain equipment, they'll still use it regardless...

But when someone claims he/she likes using a certain equipment because of a specific functionality, or even of consequences derived of said functionality, that's as much "like it" as any gold digger "liking" someone... And from what I've read a few posts ago, your case isn't the one I mentioned ^up there^...

oh yeah? nerfing the frame is affected by everyone who uses that frame even those who dont use metas like myself you see issue here? why im being punished? 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb BeardyKyle:

I'm bothered by this.

I don't even use Wukong often and this nerf is bothering me. He's already not desirable for me to play lol. 

Curious though. Is the problem Celestial Twin being strong, or is the problem twin being able to use our heavily modded weapons?

The problem is that after a rather average warframe like wukong becomes an absolute mastery fodder, the next most played warframe is pointlessly ruined. and just because it's popular!

because they've been doing it forever! acrid used to be a top weapon and instead of designing more usable weapons, they ruined the weapon. and now you hardly get anything dead with it!

then I ask myself why this forum exists if only bug forums are read.

[Uhkretor]

17 minutes ago, Doomyo89 said:

oh yeah? nerfing the frame is affected by everyone who uses that frame even those who dont use metas like myself you see issue here? why im being punished? 

Just to make it clear, I'm not interested on any Meta... I chose my equipment, I modded my equipment, and I use my equipment despite the appearance of stronger (Kuva/Tenet) weapons...

I like using the equipment I chose to use.

 

... Technically, you're not going to be punished, but this isn't an autoplay game... You know, the kind of games that play by themselves while you're *Gintama censor sound* off at the same time while watching, you know, "stuff" on your browser... Or something else entirely different...

Spoiler

There are literal tons of games that fit the profile as browser games... As chill as a game Warframe is, any interactive game (you know, the kind that requires a varied level of interaction between user & software) requires some IQ points to be applied in learning how the collective of functionalities that comprise what is commonly known as "the game" work...

I'm not trying to belittle you or be demeaning, but here's an example... The act of "communicating" isn't instinctive. You had to learn how to communicate, I had to learn it, he had to learn it, she had to learn it... Hell, we all had to learn how to communicate, which indicates a clear application of some IQ points for it... And that's one of the functionalities that comprise "Society".

If you like using Wukong as you claim you do, you're still going to use Wukong regardless of what happens.

... Might be a good idea to actually learn some stuff before the changes hit though... Who knows, maybe you'll find interesting stuff in the meantime...

[Doomyo89]

7 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

Just to make it clear, I'm not interested on any Meta... I chose my equipment, I modded my equipment, and I use my equipment despite the appearance of stronger (Kuva/Tenet) weapons...

I like using the equipment I chose to use.

 

... Technically, you're not going to be punished, but this isn't an autoplay game... You know, the kind of games that play by themselves while you're *Gintama censor sound* off at the same time while watching, you know, "stuff" on your browser... Or something else entirely different...

  Hide contents

There are literal tons of games that fit the profile as browser games... As chill as a game Warframe is, any interactive game (you know, the kind that requires a varied level of interaction between user & software) requires some IQ points to be applied in learning how the collective of functionalities that comprise what is commonly known as "the game" work...

I'm not trying to belittle you or be demeaning, but here's an example... The act of "communicating" isn't instinctive. You had to learn how to communicate, I had to learn it, he had to learn it, she had to learn it... Hell, we all had to learn how to communicate, which indicates a clear application of some IQ points for it... And that's one of the functionalities that comprise "Society".

If you like using Wukong as you claim you do, you're still going to use Wukong regardless of what happens.

... Might be a good idea to actually learn some stuff before the changes hit though... Who knows, maybe you'll find interesting stuff in the meantime...

im not going to use some builds for make my wukong playadle again i was good for 3 years man... and i feel you are trying belittle me for  using fancy words .... can we just stick on topic here?

[Uhkretor]

24 minutes ago, Doomyo89 said:

im not going to use some builds for make my wukong playadle again i was good for 3 years man

I don't think people are telling you to use some builds to make it playable... But you should start thinking about making your own build...

I know firsthand that any build I make for any equipment is impervious to any potential nerfs... It might work for you. But if this isn't something you're up for, then you shouldn't be complaining about whatever is coming either.

It makes it feel like someone living in the middle of a forest complaining for the lack of gas to cook while refusing the amount of usable fuel around simply because its too much trouble to get it.

24 minutes ago, Doomyo89 said:

i feel you are trying belittle me for  using fancy words

... Feeling belittled due to something that has been happening for generations and, interestingly enough, is going to keep happening to many more generations, like, forever...

... I know there's a term for that, but I can't quite put the woke on it... oh wait...

24 minutes ago, Doomyo89 said:

can we just stick on topic here?

... I don't know if you've noticed, but I don't think anyone is derailing it... Unless you're the one derailing it while planning to accuse me, or anyone for that matter, of doing it...

So~, which is it?

[sunderthefirmament]

47 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

The problem is that after a rather average warframe like wukong becomes an absolute mastery fodder, the next most played warframe is pointlessly ruined. and just because it's popular!

because they've been doing it forever! acrid used to be a top weapon and instead of designing more usable weapons, they ruined the weapon. and now you hardly get anything dead with it!

This trend of nerfs would be alarming if it were actually a trend.  As it stands, outside of Gyre getting hit with the nerfbat almost immediately and the steady erosion of Limbo's whole everything, I can't recall any recent significant nerfs.  How long has it been since the Acrid was popular?  I've been playing since Limbo Prime access, and I can't recall the Acrid being popular at any point in the past 4 years.

 

I remember the Catchmoon getting nerfed, but it was and still is very usable.  It just got a bit powercrept by the k.nukor and t.cycron.  And that's been a while.  It's not like these nerfs are happening every update.  In general, the trend is definitely for buffs, even to the detriment of the health of the game.

 

49 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

then I ask myself why this forum exists if only bug forums are read.

Even that's not a guarantee.  Watch the main update threads and see how many people jump on with links to bug report threads for longstanding issues that have been left to fester.

 

[Venus-Venera]

Am 9.8.2022 um 14:39 schrieb Doomyo89:

for all of my hearts i hope DE dosent undone Wukong Buff and make wukong totally unplayadle i have been maining wukong 3 years now, people who are complaining arent gonna play wukong so why DE would listen them? LEAVE WUKONG ALONE. 

I fear that the decision has long since been made. and these screaming guys don't even play the wukong and their motivation for such posts is unclear to me.

yes, wukong becomes a mastery fodder. the same will be with the next popular warframe. the same with weapons or other items. they've been doing that for ages. a top secondary from 2013/2014 is currently unplayable garbage.

Am 9.8.2022 um 14:57 schrieb Kaggelos:

Wukong is an outlier, as it is a frame that encourages, among many things, AFKing, braindead spy vault bypassing, and AOE spam among others.

Personally, braindead gameplay should be utterly extinguished, whining and resulting consequences be damned. In other games, when difficulty presents its self, you just suck it up and deal with it.

good joke. none of this is true.

Am 9.8.2022 um 19:06 schrieb Doomyo89:

so they are trying to force players to change playstyles? What? i have my own playstyle how i want to play my game why DE would care if i want to use wukong? i like it and it looks cool 

it's not about playstyle. all popular (not the good!) items should be garbage. because then plat and other resources are invested in new content. and when enough people have wasted heaps of formas, plat, then the tales about "OP" and other nonsense will be told.

Am 9.8.2022 um 20:54 schrieb (XBOX)Big Roy 324:

With usage stats that high.  I'm sure some will actually just uninstall the game. probably won't be that high but I'm sure some will based on how people feel about things like the TNW and AOZ.

The unfortunate part is that most that actually abused the twin/AOE meta will move on.  But those who simply enjoyed the frame for what he brings to the table will likely be the first to quit. 

Of course, many will uninstall or take an extremely long break. this mainly affects the beginners who have put their last resources into the warframe. probably a lot of real cash too and they get screwed.

and come on... don't start mischief with the afk-meta-clone. I'm about to puke when I see these constant lies. others have gone into much detail about it... small summary:

• for clone to make aoe, wukong must play with mele. But that's not a mele warframe!
• clone ai is miserable and most of the time he is afk.
• if you don't do anything, clone will quickly do NOTHING AT ALL! this afk is only possible if you use afk macros! and which content is worth farming afk?!?!?????????????
• wukung has hardly any advantages for an aoe weapon. there are many warframes that have top buffs. even inaros does more damage than wukong with aoe.

vor 23 Stunden schrieb EinheriarJudith:

nerfing base on popularity is quite a bad look for DE. they should be trying to nerf based on unbalance. but who are we kidding? not everyone uses wukong the same way or uses the same build.

he was boring then got a rework. now hes too much fun and needs to go back to being boring? and what about frames that need a buff? DE is out of touch.

it is exactly like that. and actually it's an average warframe with 1 decent skill.
reason for its popularity could be:

• problems with ammo for new players.
• 3 lives! That helps enormously, because new players hardly have any revives.
• relics speed run. because little damage is needed here and with a usable weapon, you save a bit of time

and yes. they do it on purpose. they have statistics and can see when the sales of new items go down. and then fairy tales are told.

p.s.: spy are super boring. and outside of sorties, you don't care about lasers or other junk. everything is hacked instant! so I can only laugh at the "spy" argument.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb sunderthefirmament:

How long has it been since the Acrid was popular?

2013/2014

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

13 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

Of course, many will uninstall or take an extremely long break. this mainly affects the beginners who have put their last resources into the warframe. probably a lot of real cash too and they get screwed.

and come on... don't start mischief with the afk-meta-clone. I'm about to puke when I see these constant lies. others have gone into much detail about it... small summary:

• for clone to make aoe, wukong must play with mele. But that's not a mele warframe!
• clone ai is miserable and most of the time he is afk.
• if you don't do anything, clone will quickly do NOTHING AT ALL! this afk is only possible if you use afk macros! and which content is worth farming afk?!?!?????????????
• wukung has hardly any advantages for an aoe weapon. there are many warframes that have top buffs. even inaros does more damage than wukong with aoe.

You may not be familiar with how the clone is truly abused.  I don't blame you it's extremely niche and not really the problem but like all the meta conversations it goes to the front as it does exist.

If you only equip your launcher (Zarr, Bramma, Orgis, Probo Cernos, Etc).

The clone uses the same weapon too. He never runs out of ammo and is a decent shot. So you can just bullet jump through the mission selectively targeting to make up for the AI's deficiencies. You're not really AFK.  But you aren't super active. In the endless staple Survival this is ultra abusable as you can just sit in a closet moving in a circle or targeting specific enemies for the bonus damage. 

I've done it just to see how it works and I understand how it goes counter to everything they want you to do in the game.

However, the fix for that is easy.  Just make the clone use the iron staff only.  It's actually a decent weapon in his hands as he doesn't get forced into the terrible combos. 

But unfortunately the discussion has shifted and many players are envious of how useful the rest of his kit is. Particularly the cloud which in my opinion is a great ability. Also the fact his clone is near infinite as most similar abilities have more drawbacks (which is why they are often considered useless).

[Doomyo89]

13 minutes ago, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

You may not be familiar with how the clone is truly abused.  I don't blame you it's extremely niche and not really the problem but like all the meta conversations it goes to the front as it does exist.

If you only equip your launcher (Zarr, Bramma, Orgis, Probo Cernos, Etc).

The clone uses the same weapon too. He never runs out of ammo and is a decent shot. So you can just bullet jump through the mission selectively targeting to make up for the AI's deficiencies. You're not really AFK.  But you aren't super active. In the endless staple Survival this is ultra abusable as you can just sit in a closet moving in a circle or targeting specific enemies for the bonus damage. 

I've done it just to see how it works and I understand how it goes counter to everything they want you to do in the game.

However, the fix for that is easy.  Just make the clone use the iron staff only.  It's actually a decent weapon in his hands as he doesn't get forced into the terrible combos. 

But unfortunately the discussion has shifted and many players are envious of how useful the rest of his kit is. Particularly the cloud which in my opinion is a great ability. Also the fact his clone is near infinite as most similar abilities have more drawbacks (which is why they are often considered useless).

so you think saryn isint op? or volt or gauss? why we woudnt ruin them too 

[Doomyo89]

14 minutes ago, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

You may not be familiar with how the clone is truly abused.  I don't blame you it's extremely niche and not really the problem but like all the meta conversations it goes to the front as it does exist.

If you only equip your launcher (Zarr, Bramma, Orgis, Probo Cernos, Etc).

The clone uses the same weapon too. He never runs out of ammo and is a decent shot. So you can just bullet jump through the mission selectively targeting to make up for the AI's deficiencies. You're not really AFK.  But you aren't super active. In the endless staple Survival this is ultra abusable as you can just sit in a closet moving in a circle or targeting specific enemies for the bonus damage. 

I've done it just to see how it works and I understand how it goes counter to everything they want you to do in the game.

However, the fix for that is easy.  Just make the clone use the iron staff only.  It's actually a decent weapon in his hands as he doesn't get forced into the terrible combos. 

But unfortunately the discussion has shifted and many players are envious of how useful the rest of his kit is. Particularly the cloud which in my opinion is a great ability. Also the fact his clone is near infinite as most similar abilities have more drawbacks (which is why they are often considered useless).

"Make clone use iron staff only" lol so  weapon that kinda sucks? how convenient 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb (XBOX)Big Roy 324:

You may not be familiar with how the clone is truly abused.  I don't blame you it's extremely niche and not really the problem but like all the meta conversations it goes to the front as it does exist.

If you only equip your launcher (Zarr, Bramma, Orgis, Probo Cernos, Etc).

The clone uses the same weapon too. He never runs out of ammo and is a decent shot. So you can just bullet jump through the mission selectively targeting to make up for the AI's deficiencies. You're not really AFK.  But you aren't super active. In the endless staple Survival this is ultra abusable as you can just sit in a closet moving in a circle or targeting specific enemies for the bonus damage. 

I've done it just to see how it works and I understand how it goes counter to everything they want you to do in the game.

However, the fix for that is easy.  Just make the clone use the iron staff only.  It's actually a decent weapon in his hands as he doesn't get forced into the terrible combos. 

But unfortunately the discussion has shifted and many players are envious of how useful the rest of his kit is. Particularly the cloud which in my opinion is a great ability. Also the fact his clone is near infinite as most similar abilities have more drawbacks (which is why they are often considered useless).

I'm not afk, I'm jumping around like crazy and wasting my time because I kill a lot less enemies and have to rely on lousy AI from the clone? and you probably mean normal mission. because only railjack crew has usable ai and does real damage!

so if i want a lot of resources, then i get saryn. because this is top aoe. saryn does 4-5 or even more damage than aoe weapon specialists like wisp, harrow etc. and overkill damage from the harrow is very impressive in my opinion.
and more kills is more loot. especially with nekros you quickly need hardly any resources.

and clone doesn't matter to me. I don't turn it on most of the time. because my verglas with top riven kills enemies on sp in record time and he ALWAYS shoots!

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

1 hour ago, Doomyo89 said:

so you think saryn isint op? or volt or gauss? why we woudnt ruin them too 

 

1 hour ago, Doomyo89 said:

"Make clone use iron staff only" lol so  weapon that kinda sucks? how convenient 

I'm willing to sacrifice it's ability to use ranged weapons if they let it keep the rest of it's functionality.  With a build based specifically on the twin it could actually be a great weapon in his hands. Having to deal with a duration or nerfed health and shields is worse for me than the weapon he holds as I like him mostly as a decoy, He helps pull heat off of me and is durable. 

1 hour ago, Venus-Venera said:

I'm not afk, I'm jumping around like crazy and wasting my time because I kill a lot less enemies and have to rely on lousy AI from the clone? and you probably mean normal mission. because only railjack crew has usable ai and does real damage!

so if i want a lot of resources, then i get saryn. because this is top aoe. saryn does 4-5 or even more damage than aoe weapon specialists like wisp, harrow etc. and overkill damage from the harrow is very impressive in my opinion.
and more kills is more loot. especially with nekros you quickly need hardly any resources.

and clone doesn't matter to me. I don't turn it on most of the time. because my verglas with top riven kills enemies on sp in record time and he ALWAYS shoots!

Funny enough I'm not really disagreeing with you.  

Problem is it's just too late.  DE has stated publicly they are going to act.  So they will.

As I said before I basically main wukong out of necessity on my PC account.  My favorite way to run him is with the Phantasma while I rock the Xoris or Lesion. 

I jump around and move a lot and generally I out kill the clone and my squadmates as long as they aren't running lots of late game power. 

I'm making the best out of this by using him to farm stuff I might struggle using another frame with.

I just finished getting the opticor vandal running thermia fractures. That event still isn't balanced well for newer players and is basically mobile defense with extra steps.

Next I'll farm his replacement. Wisp.  The sentient chicken fight was doable with Wukong on my main account so I'll use him on the PC one too. 

[Mag_Gaming]

This is how you fix Wucringe.

 

This post along with another one are not being combined into that massive thread tho? There are currently 3 " why is wucringe getting nerfed " posts in the warframe section of feedback.

[Lutesque]

On 2022-08-10 at 9:01 PM, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

Also the fact his clone is near infinite as most similar abilities have more drawbacks (which is why they are often considered useless).

We always Believed Specters were Garbage before Wukong's Rework.... 

Celestial Twin isn't Overpowered... He's literally the only one that Actually Works👀....

On 2022-08-10 at 10:39 PM, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

As I said before I basically main wukong out of necessity on my PC account. 

Necessary for What exactly ? Wukong literally isn't the Best at Anything 🤔...

On 2022-08-10 at 10:39 PM, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

I'm making the best out of this by using him to farm stuff I might struggle using another frame with.

I just finished getting the opticor vandal running thermia fractures. That event still isn't balanced well for newer players and is basically mobile defense with extra steps.

I initially did this With Limbo and Then with Gara and then Again with Booben....

Since they Added Mechs I do it with those now and it's Significantly Easier to do it with those....

What on Earth Does Wukong Bring to The Table ? If anything it's More Likely that A Rad Proc will make Twin Nuke The cannister Rather Than Protect it.... Assuming he Doesn't Nuke you First.👀...

On 2022-08-10 at 10:39 PM, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

Next I'll farm his replacement. Wisp.  The sentient chicken fight was doable with Wukong on my main account so I'll use him on the PC one too. 

Wouldn't Titania be Miles Better for This Fight ? 

I'm starting to get the impression that the people who think Wisp and Wukong are Overpowered came to that Conclusion purely from not Understanding what other Warframe's are Capable Of 😐....

Which.... I mean.... Fine.... That just Means it doesn't Affect me and the other players who know how to Actually Cheese this Content 👀....

Next thing you know people will be Accusing Wukong of being too Good in Eidolon Hunts 😱 !!!

 

[Birdframe_Prime]

On 2022-08-10 at 2:18 PM, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Because this problem didn’t start until his 4 was nerfed

Oh-ho-ho... so you don't see the problem as 'Wukong got the ability to nearly go AFK and also use the most powerful weapons in the game with no ammo consumption, no cooldown, no penalty whatsoever as long as they were holding their melee'... Interesting...

I guarantee you that if DE do anything to Wukong it's going to be about Clone.

Some players are predicting Energy Drain, a heavy one, because newer players can't support that, although older players can just brute-force through it. Other players are predicting that Clone will lose the ability to have Primary and Secondary weapons from our arsenal, maybe he'll be given one of his own that's 'balanced' for damage that scales with enemy level a little, but only consistently kills if you have Armour stripping (like Vauban's Flechette orb).

Buffing his 4 is definitely something I would approve of.

But I don't think it's as likely as the Clone nerf.

[Tiltskillet]

34 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Buffing his 4 is definitely something I would approve of.

But I don't think it's as likely as the Clone nerf.

Hopefully they do both.  Interesting test case for the new-ish regime at DE.