Xaku is a heap of problems.

[quxier]

On 2022-01-25 at 5:46 AM, (PSN)ScourgeousOxide said:

•  

Firstly, build variety. I find that Xaku needs some of everything to really be effective, including lots of strength and range.

First, Range is important but not necessary. 1st doesn't use Range. 4th forces you to recast for certain stuffs so Range isn't very important. Accuse (mind controlled enemies) and GoL get buffs from them (number of enemies affected). That's where Range fits. Range is the most important for GoL because for Accuse you may want to recast (enemies just dies from your shoots).

Range might be more important for Open-world. That's indeed issue.... but Open world is plagued with that range stuffs.

 

Secondly, Strength important as well but do you need 200% strength? For Gaze and non-steel-path nodes it's not necessary. As you can put 2 Gazes you can get pretty close to 100% armor strip without sacrificing too much slots for Strength.

On 2022-01-25 at 5:46 AM, (PSN)ScourgeousOxide said:

This doesn't leave a lot of room for actual options in the build.

On 2022-01-25 at 5:46 AM, (PSN)ScourgeousOxide said:

I also haven't talked about Xata's Whisper once. I don't really use it, I keep it permanantly subsumed over as an opportunity to make this Warframe work.

If you want AFK style then yes, it's pretty strict build. On other hand if you want more active play, then you can have some freedom.

I'm using negative Duration (mostly ~75% but one build had 45% afair). I'm using Xata's Whisper & Grasp of Lohk to Disarm enemies. I proc Void to make the most enemies unable to attack me then I slide and disarm them with GoL. GoL is like 4~5 seconds so I have time for ~2 more casts before I can disarm enemies again. I infused (from Helminth) abilities that doesn't need too much duration like Harrow's Condemn or Volt's Shock (their subsumable abilities, if I mistake that's only name mistake).

 

Sure, probably the most people won't use it but it's there.

 

There are other options (more or less) but that's for another thing you mentioned.

On 2022-01-25 at 5:46 AM, (PSN)ScourgeousOxide said:

The second ability Grasp of Lohk and Accuse from the cyclable three abilities in The Lost to per-enemy energy costs, like Inferno.

Accuse is indeed very energy greedy if you are using guns (you may just instantly kill your newly created comrades). If you are using GoL to kill enemies then that's probably not huge problem.

On other hand GoL is on the good spot. If you are using Vast untime to stop time then you don't need to cast GoL a lot. If you add e.g. Gaze then you are reducing energy costs from 150 (adding 25 for Xata's whisper, without it it will be 25 less) to 100. That's not a lot but keep in mind that you are keeping few abilities using only one button. If that's what you like then Vast untime "freeze time" feature is huge improvement (for me it's not - it's almost cheating). You consume less and less energy per cast (up to certain value of course) after some casts. If you are not going to use the VU to stop time then go to efficiency/duration instead.

 

On 2022-01-25 at 5:46 AM, (PSN)ScourgeousOxide said:

I think the energy cost of the other two abilities for The Lost should come down to 50. Second,

On 2022-01-25 at 5:46 AM, (PSN)ScourgeousOxide said:

I think The Lost's Gaze should not need 200% strength for maximum armor strip. Either do that, allow there to be more than two targets at once, or just make them cover the map.

I would go as far as Deny should be 25. Accuse should be 25-50. Gaze is on good spot. It's not like you are going to spam them (you can use only 2). And they are stripping 100% armor (and maybe other stuffs, I don't remember) in certain radius. That's should costs.

On 2022-01-25 at 5:46 AM, (PSN)ScourgeousOxide said:

Then there's survivability. Xaku's actual stats are not very good. At base, health is 97, shields at 89, and armor at 137. Then, for the actual survival details of their ability kit. The passive grants 25% 'Evasion' to enemy bullets  and 25% Damage Reduction to enemy AoE attacks. These go up to 75% on the use of the fourth ability, The Vast Untime. Evasion is inferior to damage reduction entirely. It's not complrtely worthless, but frames with better stats have been given far better survival tools.

Indeed 75% is indeed worse than other options but they can achieve near immortality (at least in theory, I don't like those styles so I haven't tested them too much) or evade lot of attacks.

Using Sly Vulvaphyla and Survival instinct you can get 40% evasion (from 25% hits you get when in the VU mode). It should be around 85%. I've tried Vulva but she died so I'm not sure how good it is. After dead you get 20% after each kill using Sly Devolution - and your pet will respawn after 30 seconds. I hate those pets so I haven't tried since then.

You have Carnis set that gives 10%/20%/30% evasion and status immunity for 2s/4s/6s for heavy kills. Spamming heavy is not my thing and it doesn't work with Vulva cat.

Then you have Boreal set that gives 20%/40%/60% damage reduction while airborne. You can probably use other "while airborne" damage reduction mods like Aviator for 40% damage reduction and Aerodynamic for 24%.

 

I don't use the VU very often so Carnis, Boral or Airborne mods aren't really for me. With that in mind I'm using Umbra Vitality + Umbra Intensify (550% hp and 44% strength) and 1 or 2 mods: Adaptation & Rolling Guard. I don't play SP but on normal nodes it's fine. Plus you have 1st & 2nd (mostly disarming but it CC them too a little... if not kill them), Accuse (for short break) and maybe VU with high Strength to slow down enemies.

On 2022-01-25 at 5:46 AM, (PSN)ScourgeousOxide said:

They augment for the second ability, Vampiric Grasp for Grasp of Lohk, gives 25 health for each shot landed on an enemy which has also been affected by The Vast Untime, or by Gaze from The Lost. I think this is ineffective for two reasons. Firstly, as I will get to, Xaku's capability for build variety is extremely low. Second of all, The Vast Untime's effectiveness range for enemies is line of sight, a requirement I find completely unnecessary for any radial ability. 

This augment might not be useless but it relies too much on VU & Gaze. I don't think VU is good for that augment because we hardly can see enemies affected, we don't suppose to spam it and it's not an aura. Gaze on other hand is better. However it's stationary. I've posted about getting HP for each disarmed enemies but DE likes AFK style (more later as someone mentioned issue with GoL).

On 2022-01-25 at 5:46 AM, (PSN)ScourgeousOxide said:

Xaku uses a lot of energy, even with the  I can think of ways to fix it. The energy cost changes I've already laid out is part of that. I would also just give them a larger energy pool. 

1st (which you don't use) has long duration. 2nd isn't horrible and in certain styles you don't suppose to spam it, hence it can cost even more for them. Gaze is cast and forget so it can cast a lot. With 4th (and other abilities) and 2 Gazes it's 150 ability cost in prize of 100.

Accuse & Deny costs too much but I would rather decrease their costs.

 

And the problem with VU is you either spam it (to get e.g. void debuff) or keep it infinitely (to keep other abilities on and other buffs).

In case of keeping it infinitely it has good energy economy. After some casts you get few abilities in prize of 100 (at base). That's a lot. And you can get energy while in that state, compared to other channeling abilities (except Sevagoth/Gloom because you can get some energy while enemies aren't around).

On other hand if you want spam it then it's bad or horrible. However I would simply change this ability to aura.

 

On 2022-01-25 at 5:46 AM, (PSN)ScourgeousOxide said:

In summary, Xaku is a Warframe that falls apart trying to keep itself alive, both metaphorically and literally.

It's solid frame but has few issues.

It's not broken. /ba dum tsss/

As I get more or less good things (and some bad) about it let me tell you issues with Xaku:

- You cannot disarm after enemy cap (DE likes afk style I guess). You can use low duration but that bans your VU usage (as it keeps it alive). I hate this as I love Skeleton form and I cannot use it.

- The lost is cumbersome to use. If I haven't changed it I'm using maybe 1 ability. We (not sure if it were more than me but oh well) posted about moving sub-abilities around. So you could for example move Deny to first slot as tap cast (and Xata's whisper as on hold because it's buff and you don't need to cast very often). That would make every ability tap-or-hold. No change or even answer from them as fair I remember.

- Vast untime speed boost doesn't work.

- Enemy visibility is bad. On other hand other ability(ies) makes it much more visible on same (effect intensify) settings. Maybe they have changed it but I don't use VU too much.

- Amalgam Seration doesn't shorten your rolls that it used to (slightly shorter/faster rolls). The change were fine for other frames. That's fine. What's not good that there is no alternative for shorter/faster rolls but there are many alternatives for longer rolls. To be honest I think they hate rolls. We got this nerf, bullet jump doesn't affect rolls.

On 2022-01-25 at 9:14 AM, Lutesque said:

Sounds like Xaku's Concept was a Success then... 😱

On 2022-01-25 at 2:51 PM, (PSN)iuvenilis said:

When I first used Xaku, I definitely had energy issues. Mostly because I was trying to use duration mods and didn't have enough room for all the other mods I wanted, and I didn't understand the synergy with his abilities.

Once I realised I didn't need duration (I wouldn't recommend going too far into the negative), and I became much more proficient at managing the timer/s, Xaku became an absolute blast. Make sure to recast Untime before the timer runs out to keep the timers on all your other abilities frozen. You can also recast your other abilities to refresh their timers, as they do go down slightly with every recast of Utime.

Basically, at the start of the mission, get your energy up asap (for Steel path I was using pizzas), then you can just cast your 1 and 4, and once enough enemies are around, use your 2. Then just recast 4 as needed. Even at base efficiency and duration, I.e. 100 energy every 20-25secs, Zenurik can keep up with that. I also used Deth Cube's energy generator augment to help increase energy orb drops. And if you combine all that with Arcane Energize, you'll never run out of energy (except for energy leech and/or getting smacked by an Ancient).

I've been searching for good clap youtube but I have only found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z571ByeNbPQ

I like when the most people goes to duration or Vast untime builds and you bring low duration. It's so rare.

I'm using ~75% and I can still able to use VU. I think I have one build with 45% but VU is not very usable at this point.

On 2022-01-25 at 3:25 PM, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

One thing I find very strange is that the augment restores Health, when, for a frame that relies on evasion to survive, your health is probably going to be either full or 0, no inbetween. Restoring a little bit of health over time works great with damage reduction, but is horrible for damage mitigation. With every single attack that comes at Xaku, either the attack is dodged or it hits full-force. Adaptation doesn't work well here because a dodged hit doesn't add a stack. If you get hit, and your shields are up, shield gate will save you. If another hit comes in before your shields are back, you are dead. The base health and armor are too low to build for health-based healing.

I'm using Umbra vitality (2 mods) so it's 550% HP and one or two (depending on setup) mods; Adaptation and Rolling guard.

I'm not using any evasion mods/pet so whenever it's 25% or 75% it's not important for me. At 75% I still get hit. So Adaptation still works.

I would like this augment for GoL to get HP from disarmed enemies. For example 25 for each enemy. For short duration I would get 150 HP every 4-5 seconds (not to mention other sources).

On 2022-01-25 at 9:01 PM, sorcer3r said:

Xaku not "endgame" ready is a big problem (his ult removes fashion!!!!)

Mine is opposite. I love Skeleton form but I'm not VU. I think someone or I posted about changing forms (so you can have one form all the time).

On 2022-01-26 at 1:23 PM, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

They accused Grasp of being an AFK ability. Having the bullet jump around and maintain a timer is not AFK.

11 hours ago, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

but yeah your right it’s not really a afk ability since it has very limited range and as you said, runs on a timer.

Range might be problem for open worlds but for normal nodes it shouldn't be huge issue.

 

GoL IS AFK. Some part of his kit or items they can use is build around AFK-style. Oh sure, someone need to press few buttons but I don't consider it very active gameplay.

We have GoL having 12 seconds and 25 seconds of Vast untime. Another ~17 seconds for VU from Primed continuity. Every 1/2 of minute you press 1 button and you can keep it for 6 minutes (12 seconds, lets say every cast takes 1 second then it's 6 minutes before you need recast GoL). Gaze has 16 seconds so it's a little better than GoL.

 

And people that are using this AFK style are using ~2x range so it's around 16 range.

 

Here is a guy playing on SP 4000+level:

He even said that he don't even need to use weapons.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, quxier said:

First, Range is important but not necessary. 1st doesn't use Range. 4th forces you to recast for certain stuffs so Range isn't very important. Accuse (mind controlled enemies) and GoL get buffs from them (number of enemies affected). That's where Range fits. Range is the most important for GoL because for Accuse you may want to recast (enemies just dies from your shoots).

Range might be more important for Open-world. That's indeed issue.... but Open world is plagued with that range stuffs.

 

Secondly, Strength important as well but do you need 200% strength? For Gaze and non-steel-path nodes it's not necessary. As you can put 2 Gazes you can get pretty close to 100% armor strip without sacrificing too much slots for Strength.

If you want AFK style then yes, it's pretty strict build. On other hand if you want more active play, then you can have some freedom.

I'm using negative Duration (mostly ~75% but one build had 45% afair). I'm using Xata's Whisper & Grasp of Lohk to Disarm enemies. I proc Void to make the most enemies unable to attack me then I slide and disarm them with GoL. GoL is like 4~5 seconds so I have time for ~2 more casts before I can disarm enemies again. I infused (from Helminth) abilities that doesn't need too much duration like Harrow's Condemn or Volt's Shock (their subsumable abilities, if I mistake that's only name mistake).

 

Sure, probably the most people won't use it but it's there.

 

There are other options (more or less) but that's for another thing you mentioned.

Accuse is indeed very energy greedy if you are using guns (you may just instantly kill your newly created comrades). If you are using GoL to kill enemies then that's probably not huge problem.

On other hand GoL is on the good spot. If you are using Vast untime to stop time then you don't need to cast GoL a lot. If you add e.g. Gaze then you are reducing energy costs from 150 (adding 25 for Xata's whisper, without it it will be 25 less) to 100. That's not a lot but keep in mind that you are keeping few abilities using only one button. If that's what you like then Vast untime "freeze time" feature is huge improvement (for me it's not - it's almost cheating). You consume less and less energy per cast (up to certain value of course) after some casts. If you are not going to use the VU to stop time then go to efficiency/duration instead.

 

I would go as far as Deny should be 25. Accuse should be 25-50. Gaze is on good spot. It's not like you are going to spam them (you can use only 2). And they are stripping 100% armor (and maybe other stuffs, I don't remember) in certain radius. That's should costs.

Indeed 75% is indeed worse than other options but they can achieve near immortality (at least in theory, I don't like those styles so I haven't tested them too much) or evade lot of attacks.

Using Sly Vulvaphyla and Survival instinct you can get 40% evasion (from 25% hits you get when in the VU mode). It should be around 85%. I've tried Vulva but she died so I'm not sure how good it is. After dead you get 20% after each kill using Sly Devolution - and your pet will respawn after 30 seconds. I hate those pets so I haven't tried since then.

You have Carnis set that gives 10%/20%/30% evasion and status immunity for 2s/4s/6s for heavy kills. Spamming heavy is not my thing and it doesn't work with Vulva cat.

Then you have Boreal set that gives 20%/40%/60% damage reduction while airborne. You can probably use other "while airborne" damage reduction mods like Aviator for 40% damage reduction and Aerodynamic for 24%.

 

I don't use the VU very often so Carnis, Boral or Airborne mods aren't really for me. With that in mind I'm using Umbra Vitality + Umbra Intensify (550% hp and 44% strength) and 1 or 2 mods: Adaptation & Rolling Guard. I don't play SP but on normal nodes it's fine. Plus you have 1st & 2nd (mostly disarming but it CC them too a little... if not kill them), Accuse (for short break) and maybe VU with high Strength to slow down enemies.

This augment might not be useless but it relies too much on VU & Gaze. I don't think VU is good for that augment because we hardly can see enemies affected, we don't suppose to spam it and it's not an aura. Gaze on other hand is better. However it's stationary. I've posted about getting HP for each disarmed enemies but DE likes AFK style (more later as someone mentioned issue with GoL).

1st (which you don't use) has long duration. 2nd isn't horrible and in certain styles you don't suppose to spam it, hence it can cost even more for them. Gaze is cast and forget so it can cast a lot. With 4th (and other abilities) and 2 Gazes it's 150 ability cost in prize of 100.

Accuse & Deny costs too much but I would rather decrease their costs.

 

And the problem with VU is you either spam it (to get e.g. void debuff) or keep it infinitely (to keep other abilities on and other buffs).

In case of keeping it infinitely it has good energy economy. After some casts you get few abilities in prize of 100 (at base). That's a lot. And you can get energy while in that state, compared to other channeling abilities (except Sevagoth/Gloom because you can get some energy while enemies aren't around).

On other hand if you want spam it then it's bad or horrible. However I would simply change this ability to aura.

 

It's solid frame but has few issues.

It's not broken. /ba dum tsss/

As I get more or less good things (and some bad) about it let me tell you issues with Xaku:

- You cannot disarm after enemy cap (DE likes afk style I guess). You can use low duration but that bans your VU usage (as it keeps it alive). I hate this as I love Skeleton form and I cannot use it.

- The lost is cumbersome to use. If I haven't changed it I'm using maybe 1 ability. We (not sure if it were more than me but oh well) posted about moving sub-abilities around. So you could for example move Deny to first slot as tap cast (and Xata's whisper as on hold because it's buff and you don't need to cast very often). That would make every ability tap-or-hold. No change or even answer from them as fair I remember.

- Vast untime speed boost doesn't work.

- Enemy visibility is bad. On other hand other ability(ies) makes it much more visible on same (effect intensify) settings. Maybe they have changed it but I don't use VU too much.

- Amalgam Seration doesn't shorten your rolls that it used to (slightly shorter/faster rolls). The change were fine for other frames. That's fine. What's not good that there is no alternative for shorter/faster rolls but there are many alternatives for longer rolls. To be honest I think they hate rolls. We got this nerf, bullet jump doesn't affect rolls.

I've been searching for good clap youtube but I have only found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z571ByeNbPQ

I like when the most people goes to duration or Vast untime builds and you bring low duration. It's so rare.

I'm using ~75% and I can still able to use VU. I think I have one build with 45% but VU is not very usable at this point.

I'm using Umbra vitality (2 mods) so it's 550% HP and one or two (depending on setup) mods; Adaptation and Rolling guard.

I'm not using any evasion mods/pet so whenever it's 25% or 75% it's not important for me. At 75% I still get hit. So Adaptation still works.

I would like this augment for GoL to get HP from disarmed enemies. For example 25 for each enemy. For short duration I would get 150 HP every 4-5 seconds (not to mention other sources).

Mine is opposite. I love Skeleton form but I'm not VU. I think someone or I posted about changing forms (so you can have one form all the time).

Range might be problem for open worlds but for normal nodes it shouldn't be huge issue.

 

GoL IS AFK. Some part of his kit or items they can use is build around AFK-style. Oh sure, someone need to press few buttons but I don't consider it very active gameplay.

We have GoL having 12 seconds and 25 seconds of Vast untime. Another ~17 seconds for VU from Primed continuity. Every 1/2 of minute you press 1 button and you can keep it for 6 minutes (12 seconds, lets say every cast takes 1 second then it's 6 minutes before you need recast GoL). Gaze has 16 seconds so it's a little better than GoL.

 

And people that are using this AFK style are using ~2x range so it's around 16 range.

 

Here is a guy playing on SP 4000+level:

He even said that he don't even need to use weapons.

If Xaku is AFK then Mesa is AFK. And DE definitely doesn’t consider Mesa to be an AFK frame otherwise she would’ve been nerfed years ago.

Also, the issue mainly arises from DE comparing GoL directly to WoF. Them saying the abilities are exactly alike which they are not. WoF was a low energy per second draining ability that dealt moderate damage. Making it extremely easy to AFK with as it was practically self sustaining after the initial cast.

GoL requires you to keep track of a timer and recast when needed. That’s already far more interactivity than WoF and puts it well outside the “AFK” style ability. Also, if the ability is so similar to WoF why would they even put it in the game in the first place? What’s the point of adding an ability you have full intentions of gimping because otherwise it falls under the category of abilities that you don’t want in the game anymore?

[quxier]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

If Xaku is AFK then Mesa is AFK. And DE definitely doesn’t consider Mesa to be an AFK frame otherwise she would’ve been nerfed years ago.

Mesa 4th, Yareli's 3rd and probably other frames have "afk capabilities". Why mesa hasn't been nerfed? I don't know. I can only think of one reason not to nerf her. She is very helpful at certain Cetus bounty. Without her I would have very hard time doing that part.

2 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Also, the issue mainly arises from DE comparing GoL directly to WoF. Them saying the abilities are exactly alike which they are not. WoF was a low energy per second draining ability that dealt moderate damage. Making it extremely easy to AFK with as it was practically self sustaining after the initial cast.

Oh, sure it's not literally away from keyboard. I've read that World on fire that it drained 6 energy per second. With Primed flow she has 637 energy. Around around 30 second gets for overheat (drain from 3 to 6). So to make it simple 600 energy left. That's 100 seconds usage. Xaku has similar energy. After initial cast (let's say GoL + Gaze = 125) and VU you take 225 energy. That's ~400 energy left. That's 4 casts of VU, meaning 120 seconds.

One big difference you have to cast VU every ~1/2 minute.

3 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

GoL requires you to keep track of a timer and recast when needed. That’s already far more interactivity than WoF and puts it well outside the “AFK” style ability.

Sure, that's...hmm... I don't know 5 more button presses including other abilities? After initial cast of your needed press 1 button every 30 second. I repeat it. You need to press 1 button every 30 second.

That's for sure more than WoF but it's still very inactive play.

3 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Also, if the ability is so similar to WoF why would they even put it in the game in the first place? What’s the point of adding an ability you have full intentions of gimping because otherwise it falls under the category of abilities that you don’t want in the game anymore?

Whole situation with GoL (+VU) is crazy/silly. I think there were some kind of anti AFK nerf around Xaku changes (they said something about not liking AFK). Then they make whole frame about keeping abilities for very long time. On other hand they disabled disarming enemies at max at maxed enemy cap because "it was too similar to Loki's". Whole disarming at low enemy count would be more active.

So I don't feel like they are doing exactly what they say.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

DE definitely doesn’t consider Mesa to be an AFK frame otherwise she would’ve been nerfed years ago.

Let's be real: DE has a clear reason about why they don't nerf such a popular frame.

[(PSN)RuTweN]

24 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

Let's be real: DE has a clear reason about why they don't nerf such a popular frame.

Maybe because Xaku is more like Octavia rather than Mesa.It’s a better Octavia or worse depending on the mission type.

It has the same playstyle as Octavia in survival missions except instead of using invisibility it uses evasion as a defensive mechanism.

For the non steel path missions it acts as a walking turret but a lot of other frames do that.

For the steel path excluding survival or non camping game mode,it’s pretty underwelming as you need to use grasp in order to use your 2 to be able to kill which is so slow and can kill faster by using weapons.

Xaku’s gameplay loop is similar to Octavia,it’s weekness is making the tenno fall asleep waiting to press 2 buttons

[(XBOX)THE NTT]

I have used xaku extensively, easy-peasy doing solo 4-5hr survival runs.  
His survivability is phenomenal and doesn't need any buffs.  Doesn't even need evasion-deimos-pet - but if you have that too then almost nothing touches you.
his dps is obscene and doesn't need any buffs.

you can go god mode without even bothering with prime mods.

he requires relatively few ability casts per minute.  decent duration and you just recast 4 when it runs out, and 2 or 3 every 10th time or so his 4 runs out. (depending only on your own recognition of 4's timers to prevent the other two from running out.

his 3 is not clunky since you really only need 1 of the 3 abilities therein (and maybe occasionally 1 other if you feel you want some add'l cc)

as for build variety requriing a bit of everything - it doesn't - I'm mean you can, and get away with it, but if you max range & pwr & duration at the expense of efficiency and survivabilty, you'll probably be a happy tenno.

 

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

2 hours ago, (PSN)RuTweN said:

Maybe because Xaku is more like Octavia rather than Mesa.It’s a better Octavia or worse depending on the mission type.

Look at what I'm quoting. I'm talking about Mesa, not Xaku. DE probably doesn't go and change Mesa because she's very popular, which means there will be a harsh reaction if she's not directly buffed. It doesn't matter if the devs want to change Mesa, it's better to let the community be satisfied with a botched frame design than try and make the design better.

2 hours ago, (PSN)RuTweN said:

For the non steel path missions it acts as a walking turret but a lot of other frames do that.

For the steel path excluding survival or non camping game mode,it’s pretty underwelming as you need to use grasp in order to use your 2 to be able to kill which is so slow and can kill faster by using weapons.

I'm not sure what you want out of Xaku. Should they be able to simply walk around passively killing anything in its radius, regardless of level? It seems pretty fair that you have to satisfy some conditions to get such a powerful effect, and it's not like Xaku has a problem maintaining ability usage.

And keep in mind what you compare Xaku to. Maybe Xaku is underwhelming compared to something, but only because that something is really overpowered, and thus makes most things underwhelming.

2 hours ago, (PSN)RuTweN said:

Xaku’s gameplay loop is similar to Octavia,it’s weekness is making the tenno fall asleep waiting to press 2 buttons

True; Xaku is really boring to play, but they're undoubtedly powerful. I do think Xaku should get a revisit to make them more engaging, but direct buffs to their direct state wouldn't achieve anything.

[Tiltskillet]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

8 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

DE definitely doesn’t consider Mesa to be an AFK frame otherwise she would’ve been nerfed years ago.

Let's be real: DE has a clear reason about why they don't nerf such a popular frame.

What, DE loves nerfing Mesa.

• Hotfix: Specters of the Rail 11 (2016-07-19)
  • Conclave: Reduced Mesa's passive health bonus with no melee equipped to 25 from 30.

 

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

2 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

What, DE loves nerfing Mesa.

• Hotfix: Specters of the Rail 11 (2016-07-19)
  • Conclave: Reduced Mesa's passive health bonus with no melee equipped to 25 from 30.

Curses! You've got me there. I should have seen that coming, but I simultaneously forgot about Conclave's existence and Mesa's health passive at the same time.

[quxier]

19 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

What, DE loves nerfing Mesa.

• Hotfix: Specters of the Rail 11 (2016-07-19)
  • Conclave: Reduced Mesa's passive health bonus with no melee equipped to 25 from 30.

 

At first I was like: "yeah, conclave". It still amaze me that some person spam update section with conclave stuffs...lol.

Then I've seen date... ~6 years! Wow.

[(PSN)scourgeoux]

On 2022-01-25 at 5:55 AM, -AncientWarrior- said:

Xaku's evasion works great with either of my Eclipse or Silence builds

Me, I like the rolling max turret stack and use my Heliocor with Healing Return on it for continual health ..

 

On 2022-01-25 at 1:51 PM, (PSN)iuvenilis said:

I also used Deth Cube's energy generator augment to help increase energy orb drops.

Maybe it's just me, but I think if a Warframe needs to use Helminth or other pieces of equipment to stay alive, that is not a good Warframe.

 

[quxier]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)ScourgeousOxide said:

Maybe it's just me, but I think if a Warframe needs to use Helminth or other pieces of equipment to stay alive, that is not a good Warframe.

You don't need Helminth for all frames. It's just some Helminth abilities have some unique feature or something.

Like Yareli's Aquablades doesn't need Roar. You can damage or debuff enemies other way as well (e.g. gun with viral). Roar just makes it better/faster for afk-style.

[(PSN)scourgeoux]

21 minutes ago, quxier said:

You don't need Helminth for all frames.

Yes? I'd argue you could even just remove Baruuk's first ability slot entirely, but that's not really related to what I said.

[Tiltskillet]

21 minutes ago, (PSN)ScourgeousOxide said:

Maybe it's just me, but I think if a Warframe needs to use Helminth or other pieces of equipment to stay alive, that is not a good Warframe.

Define "need".  AFAIC, Xaku definitely doesn't need any Helminth abilities or Heliocor, or any specific companion, arcane, whatever.   Those just make some things easier.  And if Helminth or other pieces of equipment didn't make anything easier, it's hard to see the point of them.

Now if you want to argue that Xaku has an ability they really don't need, so it's too easy to replace with something better, you can do that.  But the number of frames in that line is pretty long.

[(PSN)scourgeoux]

2 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Now if you want to argue that Xaku has an ability they really don't need, so it's too easy to replace with something better, you can do that.  But the number of frames in that line is pretty long.

I feel that's mostly due to the amount of Warframes that have an ability that's so weak or otherwise useless, nobody touched it in the first place.

[quxier]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)ScourgeousOxide said:

Yes? I'd argue you could even just remove Baruuk's first ability slot entirely, but that's not really related to what I said.

I'm trying to say that Helminth just makes better but lots of frame are "fine" on their own (in case of survivality). Xaku is fine without Helminth.

[(PSN)scourgeoux]

3 minutes ago, quxier said:

I'm trying to say that Helminth just makes better but lots of frame are "fine" on their own (in case of survivality). Xaku is fine without Helminth.

Fine is definitely thee right word. Definitely not a priority for changes.

[Tiltskillet]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)ScourgeousOxide said:

I feel that's mostly due to the amount of Warframes that have an ability that's so weak or otherwise useless, nobody touched it in the first place.

True.  And I've seen a fair number of builds that fix that problem by replacing one of their weak abilities with Xata. :P

[(PSN)scourgeoux]

8 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

True.  And I've seen a fair number of builds that fix that problem by replacing one of their weak abilities with Xata. :P

I've never been a fan of abilities that just buff your weapons. "Number go up" is not exactly a compelling effect.

[quxier]

11 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

True.  And I've seen a fair number of builds that fix that problem by replacing one of their weak abilities with Xata. :P

Pre-nerf sentients could use some though love. For example Mesa + Void status were good for sentients.

Now Sentients dies without using Void status (e.g. operator's dash). I'm not sure how useful it is.

13 minutes ago, (PSN)ScourgeousOxide said:

Fine is definitely thee right word. Definitely not a priority for changes.

Sadly if frame has some power to kill (directly, armor stripping or something) then there is no reason to fix immediately. Even it has issues like Xaku.

5 minutes ago, (PSN)ScourgeousOxide said:

I've never been a fan of abilities that just buff your weapons. "Number go up" is not exactly a compelling effect.

I'm not fan of those as well. I'm using Roar on Yareli for afk style to farm some stupid things.

However Xata's whisper is not simply buffing ability. On status proc it creates bubble around body part that attracts bullets. You can use it (as I mentioned) for protecting yourself or for easier headshots (after first hit).

[Tiltskillet]

36 minutes ago, (PSN)ScourgeousOxide said:

I've never been a fan of abilities that just buff your weapons. "Number go up" is not exactly a compelling effect.

Like qux said, it's more interesting than other, similar abilities because of its proc.  There are some diabolical builds out there.   Like check out https://youtu.be/FgIiq3Kwp38

Actually looking at that reminded me how good Xata can be.  I should probably retract my comment earlier in the thread about feeling locked into one build, since it seems partly self-inflicted.

 

[(PSN)iuvenilis]

1 hour ago, (PSN)ScourgeousOxide said:

Maybe it's just me, but I think if a Warframe needs to use Helminth or other pieces of equipment to stay alive, that is not a good Warframe.

Personally I haven't tried any Helminth on Xaku, I think their kit works wonders. It's not for everyone, of course. You don't need Deth cube, it's just a nice bonus in general. I use it quite often these days, just takes the pressure off energize. Xaku can absolutely cream anything in normal Starchart.

[Leqesai]

7 hours ago, quxier said:

However Xata's whisper is not simply buffing ability. On status proc it creates bubble around body part that attracts bullets. You can use it (as I mentioned) for protecting yourself or for easier headshots (after first hit).

I've found Xata's Whisper to be pretty useful with the Tenet Flux Rifle. The thing applies tons of status effects and the increased head shot damage boosts its slash procs. 

Not to mention Xata's Whisper makes sentients a joke (in the tiny number of missions where this is relevant.... Why you no add sentient misisons with New War DE... fail fail fail).

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

16 hours ago, quxier said:

Mesa 4th, Yareli's 3rd and probably other frames have "afk capabilities". Why mesa hasn't been nerfed? I don't know. I can only think of one reason not to nerf her. She is very helpful at certain Cetus bounty. Without her I would have very hard time doing that part.

Oh, sure it's not literally away from keyboard. I've read that World on fire that it drained 6 energy per second. With Primed flow she has 637 energy. Around around 30 second gets for overheat (drain from 3 to 6). So to make it simple 600 energy left. That's 100 seconds usage. Xaku has similar energy. After initial cast (let's say GoL + Gaze = 125) and VU you take 225 energy. That's ~400 energy left. That's 4 casts of VU, meaning 120 seconds.

One big difference you have to cast VU every ~1/2 minute.

Sure, that's...hmm... I don't know 5 more button presses including other abilities? After initial cast of your needed press 1 button every 30 second. I repeat it. You need to press 1 button every 30 second.

That's for sure more than WoF but it's still very inactive play.

Whole situation with GoL (+VU) is crazy/silly. I think there were some kind of anti AFK nerf around Xaku changes (they said something about not liking AFK). Then they make whole frame about keeping abilities for very long time. On other hand they disabled disarming enemies at max at maxed enemy cap because "it was too similar to Loki's". Whole disarming at low enemy count would be more active.

So I don't feel like they are doing exactly what they say.

You’re forgetting it was incredibly easy to mod max efficiency for WoF Ember. It didn’t negatively impact anything of importance to that build.

yeah I’m of the mindset that VU’s duration freeze was a mistake due to how much it clearly influenced DEs later changes to Xaku and how they just ignored her other issues like it somehow fixed all of Xakus problems. 
There were no anti-afk changes. DE just refused to buff the gun range of GoL under the claim “Even buffing the range just a little made it just like World on Fire in every regard, so we refuse to buff it”. If anything that removal of the disarm after max guns made Xaku more AFK as she has less things she can constantly do. Also that Loki comparison was BS. There are countless frames with abilities that are better versions of other frames abilities. Hell, I made a checklist of frames who had abilities that were better version of just Lokis abilities, and there was more than just Xaku. Why suddenly that arbitrary rule gets stuck to Xaku is stupid. It’s like not letting Shattered Justice go on Kuva Hek because “it’s already better than regular hek” well if that’s the case why tf can I use Supra’s augment of Supra vandal?

Xaku is a perfect example of DE has absolutely zero design philosophy when it comes to making frames and how badly that can screw up the frame.

[quxier]

58 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

17 hours ago, quxier said:

You’re forgetting it was incredibly easy to mod max efficiency for WoF Ember. It didn’t negatively impact anything of importance to that build.

I guess if you get like 2x more time then you could probably go drink some tea or something.

59 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Xaku is a perfect example of DE has absolutely zero design philosophy when it comes to making frames and how badly that can screw up the frame.

To be honest Xaku has some "philosophies". IMHO Yareli & and little less Sevagoth have less philosophy than Xaku. Yareli is just "let them use K-drive and add some abilities". Sevagoth is bunch of fancy looking abilities and just strong but just another melee-spam weapon. Sev at least had Gloom and maybe few other stuffs.