Excalibur in Death Battle! MGS Raiden vs Excalibur: Wiz and Boomstick give Warframe recognition! And hype Tennocon and Duviri. Edit: Countdown is now live!

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

20 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

As someone who has only ever seen one episode of Ben 10, what did they get wrong?

For the record, the episode was the "master control" one, where not only could Vilgax (or whatever his name was) imprison Ben, but the story made it very clear he had the means and power to tear the Watch off Ben's arm. If Vilgax could do that, I don't see how Green Lantern can't.

That being said, I am aware of my own ignorance, so there could be more upgrades in later episodes I am not privy to

If they stuck with the feats of the first Ben 10 then sure it could end quickly, they list many feats that are used by older Ben. It's weird that they used 10 year old Ben for the fight but give him Alien X which is only available later.

They even say that the watch can transform him automatically into an alien that can protect him, which happens in the show, but the scissors just cut it off which wouldn't be possible.

I don't mind Ben losing to Hal but they could've done it in a better way.

[Rakosta_Kai]

32 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

How will Excalibur win the fight? Or will they pull from New War trailer where Tenno throws death beam? 

That's the real question as I would be shocked if Raiden somehow managed a win instead.
At a guess I'd say that Raiden goes after the Operator and finally starts putting in real damage, only to eventually get caught between a sentient Excalibur and the Operator then getting Radial Blinded and a finisher/slash dash for the final blow.

A more balanced fight would be either Raiden, Solid Snake, or Old Snake vs Hayden Tenno (which won't happen for obvious reasons) imo.

Should be interesting regardless though.

[TARINunit9]

46 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

They even say that the watch can transform him automatically into an alien that can protect him, which happens in the show, but the scissors just cut it off which wouldn't be possible.

This assumes that there is an alien that can defend against those scissors. I'm not saying you're wrong, but you need to stay away from circular logic to make your point

[vanaukas]

7 hours ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

It has like over 5 million subscribers. And it’s fun because they put two fictional characters against each other and do a complete dive into their powers and lore. Like they did popeye vs Saitama or Batman vs Captain America or spawn vs kratos, It’s just fun and nerdy, and the fights are animated and violent. 

 

7 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Two main reasons:

1. They hire good animators. If you just skip to the fight you still get three minutes of entertainment.

2. If you've never heard of a character before, they do a decent job making them look badass and sound like compelling characters. That's an underappreciated writing skill. They do make occasional mistakes, but they're usually not so disgusting they completely misrepresent the character

Ah, I see. I didn't knew about this, thanks for the info both of you

[-Krism-]

6 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

As someone who has only ever seen one episode of Ben 10, what did they get wrong?

To put it simply, it is said, & they do mention it, that the Omnitrix has a fail-safe in case Ben gets hurt or killed

In instance, it can automatically transform him into an Alien that could survive the attack, or, as shown in one episode where Ben gets his hand cut-off, the Omnitrix creates some kind of portal teleporting his hand in another universe to prevent his death & losing the watch

Problem is, that's exactly how they make him lose in the video; he gets his hand cut-off & dies; people were obviously quite angry

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, -Krism- said:

In instance, it can automatically transform him into an Alien that could survive the attack, or, as shown in one episode where Ben gets his hand cut-off, the Omnitrix creates some kind of portal teleporting his hand in another universe to prevent his death & losing the watch

Problem is, that's exactly how they make him lose in the video; he gets his hand cut-off & dies; people were obviously quite angry

Now that is very interesting, and far more substantive than the usual argument Ben 10 fans would throw around in the comment section. They were always shouting "the Watch [however you spell it] would transform him into the best form to resist being cut off!" when that is itself circular logic that implies there is a form that can do that in the first place.

But according to you, it's much more complicated than that, because it's shown not only can Ben get his hand cut off, but also that's not the end of the fight, either in canon, or what ideally would have been in Death Battle if they actually had time to show it

[-Krism-]

24 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Now that is very interesting, and far more substantive than the usual argument Ben 10 fans would throw around in the comment section. They were always shouting "the Watch [however you spell it] would transform him into the best form to resist being cut off!" when that is itself circular logic that implies there is a form that can do that in the first place.

But according to you, it's much more complicated than that, because it's shown not only can Ben get his hand cut off, but also that's not the end of the fight, either in canon, or what ideally would have been in Death Battle if they actually had time to show it

During the episode, the watch actually takes control of the hand & even transforms Ben by itself when he needs it as shown here:

One last thing is when transformed as a prism-like alien that can use light, he actually gets killed, but the fail-safe kicks in & revives him as one of his old transformations made out of diamonds; kinda overpowered yeah, but it's cannon, & they never use it

I'm not even a fan of Ben 10 to begin with, but still know this kind of stuff, that's speaks a lot on the amount of research they do for their battles

 

So you can understand that some of us are not exactly thrilled about Excal vs Raiden if it's just gonna end up the same way

[ant99999]

Just make sure to post here the moment where Excalibur is being cut into 500 pieces, that would be entertaining to watch

[X7PLVTINUM]

On 2022-07-08 at 9:11 PM, Padre_Akais said:

Can we get Raiden's Blade Wolf to join us after it's over?

Blade Wolf is gonna be the Werewolf warframe DE's been teasing us with

[Zahnrad]

43 minutes ago, shocker53 said:

Blade Wolf is gonna be the Werewolf warframe DE's been teasing us with

Nono.

The Operator comes out and uses Transference to pilot Raiden.

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 hours ago, shocker53 said:

Blade Wolf is gonna be the Werewolf warframe DE's been teasing us with

I'm good with that too.

2 hours ago, Zahnny said:

Nono.

The Operator comes out and uses Transference to pilot Raiden.

That's entirely too much angst and brooding for one game.

[Sziklamester]

No reason to be dissapointed because it is just a show. What they want to make a winner that character will wins. Same like some other show which presented prehistoric animals like short faced bear vs mega lion. You can think who could win but in the end the winner is whom the animators make to be winner. There are situations where the dumbest possible way is the best for win a match like how Alien vs Predator did when that one Xenomorph killed 2 "youngster" predator when one was basically blind and deaf and not was aware Xeno could be there and the other smacked the crap out of it yet made a dumb mistake and let the Alien win.

Happens because that "needs" for the show. In these scenarios anyone could win.

[OniDax]

On 2022-07-09 at 2:22 PM, fo3nixz said:

*paid recognition 

I find it hilarious that DE has to pay people to promote their game.

[TheSteelMushroom]

On 2022-07-10 at 8:04 AM, Zahnny said:

Oh god that.

I don't mean to nitpick, but it really bugged me. "Here's this guy who is essentially immortal except for in this one instance he rarely uses"

Then proceeds to have him go 0-100 to make him vulnerable. I could've gotten it if they did a Goku and had him gradually go through, but realistically. There wasn't any need. Even Sakuya could beat Dio.

I've never watch Hellsing at all but you didn't mention how their explantation of why logically he can't have schrodinger for the Death Battle is misrepresented or wrong. I've looked for a lot of comments for a reason but I can't seem to find one. Death Battle explain it as if he had schrodinger and his vampiric abilities then the german cat kid wouldn't recognise himself and he as well as all the souls that Alucard absorb would cease to exist which makes sense narrative wise.

[TheSteelMushroom]

Accidental repost

[TheSteelMushroom]

On 2022-07-10 at 7:28 PM, TARINunit9 said:

Now that is very interesting, and far more substantive than the usual argument Ben 10 fans would throw around in the comment section. They were always shouting "the Watch [however you spell it] would transform him into the best form to resist being cut off!" when that is itself circular logic that implies there is a form that can do that in the first place.

But according to you, it's much more complicated than that, because it's shown not only can Ben get his hand cut off, but also that's not the end of the fight, either in canon, or what ideally would have been in Death Battle if they actually had time to show it

Just to throw my two cents in here because I am quite the Ben 10 fan but there are multiple transformations that can pretty much protect Ben from almost all forms of destruction. Big Chill is one who can turn intangible who was only once physically grab by Vilgax as he had this magic gauntlet or some power from a great champion that he acquired which happened in the movie Vilgax Attacks. They can be taken down by through other means of the sensory nervous system like sound or vision of some kind but in the heat of the moment it can save him.

 

Goop is just a slime alien with a flying saucer that uses gravity to creates its form which Ben has used many times to save himself.

Arguably Swampfire could also regenerate from disintegration and he been melted into a puddle but that image can't seem to be inserted.

Also before you say well Hal Jordan speed outclasses anything Ben has achieved in that category. Well in Omniverse the Omnitrix has saved Ben from a universal explosion equivalent to the Big Bang so it definitely can act quick enough keep him alive as long as he needs to tire out Hal Jordon or wait for the Green Lantern ring to run out of energy.

  

There also an argument to be made that since the Green Lantern ring is made of technology that Upgrade could disable it and leave Hal defenseless.

Also the Alien X species are said to be nigh-omnipotent and could snap almost anything out of existence but Ben has never done that before, though he has recreated the entire universe using said alien once. So arguable if it was a fight to the death and he had to save his own life then Ben could of done that plus they never mention Hal Jordan matching such power, resisting any existence erasing or recovering from anything like it before but Death Battle doesn't even bring any of that up at all in the results. Though in the DBX with Ben 10 vs Danny Phantom which is purely just animation for fun with no research, they did do exactly that.

And since we're talking about Ben 10 at his peak so he would have the master control as I think that was included in their analysis then he would never turn back human and be left wide open while also switching between aliens on a dime with just pure thoughts for whatever situation he needed.

[TheSteelMushroom]

7 hours ago, Sziklamester said:

No reason to be dissapointed because it is just a show. What they want to make a winner that character will wins. Same like some other show which presented prehistoric animals like short faced bear vs mega lion. You can think who could win but in the end the winner is whom the animators make to be winner. There are situations where the dumbest possible way is the best for win a match like how Alien vs Predator did when that one Xenomorph killed 2 "youngster" predator when one was basically blind and deaf and not was aware Xeno could be there and the other smacked the crap out of it yet made a dumb mistake and let the Alien win.

Happens because that "needs" for the show. In these scenarios anyone could win.

You really never watch Death Battle have you? Because the premise of the series is that the winner is based on who would realstically win an actual fight and that depends on the research they do so they don't just pick a winner willy-nilly. Death Battle has made their mistakes before or their older videos lack the research/might be outdated but that not how they operate unless you're talking about DBX because that is seperate from the main series entirely.

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, TheSteelMushroom said:

There also an argument to be made that since the Green Lantern Ring is made of technology that Upgrade could disable it and leave Hal defenseless.

Also the Alien X species are said to be nigh-omnipotent and could snap almost anything out of existence but Ben has never done that before, though he has recreated the entire universe using Alien X once. So arguable if it was a fight to the death and he had to save his own life then Ben could of done that plus they never mention Hal Jordan matching such power, resisting any existence erasing or recovering from anything like it before but Death Battle doesn't even bring any of that up at all. Though in the DBX with Ben 10 vs Danny Phantom which is purely just animation for fun with no research, they did do exactly that.

And since we're talking about Ben 10 at his peak so he would have the master control as I think that was included in their analysis then he would never turn back human and be left wide open while also switching between aliens on a dime for whatever situation he needed.

Thank you very much for your insight. I just want to comment on three quick points:

1) the Green Lantern rings are absolutely technology by the rules of DC. I don't know what Upgrade's power is, but for him to override a ring he would basically need to outsmart both the Guardians of the Universe and whoever the heck this is

2) Feel free to call this totally BS, but the Death Battle hosts rules that Alien X is one tiny sliver below omnipotent because he couldn't stop the universe from being destroyed in the first place, only rebuild it afterward. I am not going to speculate if that even maps to real logic, much less Ben 10 logic, but that was the call Death Battle went with

3) in the final Death Battle animation, Ben does indeed have master control and never reverts to human after the fight starts. Green Lantern counters this by going back in time before Ben even started the fight

 

[TheSteelMushroom]

17 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Thank you very much for your insight. I just want to comment on three quick points:

1) the Green Lantern rings are absolutely technology by the rules of DC. I don't know what Upgrade's power is, but for him to override a ring he would basically need to outsmart both the Guardians of the Universe and whoever the heck this is

2) Feel free to call this totally BS, but the Death Battle hosts rules that Alien X is one tiny sliver below omnipotent because he couldn't stop the universe from being destroyed in the first place, only rebuild it afterward. I am not going to speculate if that even maps to real logic, much less Ben 10 logic, but that was the call Death Battle went with

3) in the final Death Battle animation, Ben does indeed have master control and never reverts to human after the fight starts. Green Lantern counters this by going back in time before Ben even started the fight

 

1) Upgrade is an alien that can control and manipulate almost any form of technology and has only been resisted against by the will of the sentient technology itself and certain locations with strong maximum security specifically design to prevent them controlling any tech. Out of assumption but the Guardians of the Universe are the creators of the ring and the Ion is what powers them so what direct connection do they have to the rings or is there some built in protection in these accessories? Has there been a moment the ring resisted control before maybe with the willpower from the user? I can't seem to find any.

2) I don't remember them mentioning that but it doesn't change what the Celestialsapien (Alien X's species) can achieve as it has been stated by other characters that they could snap almost anything out of existence and Ben's transformation are generally on average with said species or even better. Though Ben being a honorable hero and all never had a good reason to or couldn't immediately do so due to having to argue with the two personalities inside Alien X. Also he didn't stop the destruction of the universe was because Ben had to get the two other personalities Serena and Bellicus to agree on fixing things as it was being destroyed but as of Omniverse, Ben has gain full control.

3) Yes I remember that and there two caveats to this with Alien X plus Clockwork who are two aliens able to control or travel through time which a lot of people do point out that characters with those abilites will notice a time ripple. This would allow Ben to know that Hal travelled through time then follow him there or maybe even reverse Uno card his time travel. And it not like Ben Tennyson is a stranger to time travel anyways because he has fought villians with said powers such as a rogue evil chronosapien{Clockwork's species) called Maltruant or Eon who is an evil alternate timeline version of himself. Also the fail-safe which saves Ben should work regardless whether he has transformed or not because he was in front of that universe explosion as a human.

[TheSteelMushroom]

On 2022-07-11 at 3:54 PM, TARINunit9 said:

Thank you very much for your insight. I just want to comment on three quick points:

1) the Green Lantern rings are absolutely technology by the rules of DC. I don't know what Upgrade's power is, but for him to override a ring he would basically need to outsmart both the Guardians of the Universe and whoever the heck this is

2) Feel free to call this totally BS, but the Death Battle hosts rules that Alien X is one tiny sliver below omnipotent because he couldn't stop the universe from being destroyed in the first place, only rebuild it afterward. I am not going to speculate if that even maps to real logic, much less Ben 10 logic, but that was the call Death Battle went with

3) in the final Death Battle animation, Ben does indeed have master control and never reverts to human after the fight starts. Green Lantern counters this by going back in time before Ben even started the fight

 

One more interesting argument I just thought of is that Ben has Ghost Freak a.k.a ectonurites which have the ability to possess most living creatures so he could take control of Hal Jordon and force him to lose concentration then make him toss away the ring. Ghost Freak can turn invisible and intangible as well so that another fail-safe alien or could sneak up on him if Hal doesn't use some kind of specific scanning method for vision or somehow deduce the alien's weakness to sunlight. Looking this up that Hal Jordon from New Earth was susceptible to possession from the Parallax, though that did take years due to the man's willpower having to be broken down but ectonurites have yet to be resisted because of willpower.

[Zahnrad]

8 hours ago, TheSteelMushroom said:

I've never watch Hellsing at all but you didn't mention how their explantation of why logically he can't have schrodinger for the Death Battle is misrepresented or wrong. I've looked for a lot of comments for a reason but I can't seem to find one. Death Battle explain it as if he had schrodinger and his vampiric abilities then the german cat kid wouldn't recognise himself and he as well as all the souls that Alucard absorb would cease to exist which makes sense narrative wise.

I'm not saying the Schrodinger angle is impossible, since that's literally what happens in the anime. A catboy named Schrodinger  based on Schrodinger's cat earlier, we see Schrodinger get shot dead and see his body, then we see he's suddenly back on his feet, no wounds or corpse. He later lets himself get absorbed with all the other souls Alucard had taken. This caused Schrodinger's anomalous effects to apply to Alucard, making him cease to exist, at least until he manually wiped/cleansed all of the souls out of his body.

My issue is, Alucard in universe, is only mortally vulnerable when in his Dracula/Vlad The Impaler true form. And he had no real reason to go 0-100.

It'd be like having Goku go SSJ3 with Kaioken x20 right at the beginning. You're just asking to get yourself killed, when his previous forms could hold their own without the huge risks right off the bat. It just felt like an extremely rushed episode to have him go straight to his vulnerable stage so quickly.

[TheSteelMushroom]

1 hour ago, Zahnny said:

I'm not saying the Schrodinger angle is impossible, since that's literally what happens in the anime. A catboy named Schrodinger  based on Schrodinger's cat earlier, we see Schrodinger get shot dead and see his body, then we see he's suddenly back on his feet, no wounds or corpse. He later lets himself get absorbed with all the other souls Alucard had taken. This caused Schrodinger's anomalous effects to apply to Alucard, making him cease to exist, at least until he manually wiped/cleansed all of the souls out of his body.

My issue is, Alucard in universe, is only mortally vulnerable when in his Dracula/Vlad The Impaler true form. And he had no real reason to go 0-100.

It'd be like having Goku go SSJ3 with Kaioken x20 right at the beginning. You're just asking to get yourself killed, when his previous forms could hold their own without the huge risks right off the bat. It just felt like an extremely rushed episode to have him go straight to his vulnerable stage so quickly.

If you're talking about the animation then that aspect is not meant to be purely accurate because it just for the sake of awesome enjoyment and they have done something like this before which was in Iron Man vs Batman where Bruce Wayne brought out his godly suit the HellBat that starts draining his life force immediately but it was a cool sledgehammer start to the fight. Plus it not like many of Batman's suits would stand a chance against most of Iron Man's ones. Also just saying this but Death Battle did state that a lot of Dio's feats far outclass what Alucard has achieved and that time stopping ability is a pretty big edge with nothing Alucard had to counter it so being that overwhelmed then he would probably had to resort to drastic measures early on. 

[Zahnrad]

1 hour ago, TheSteelMushroom said:

If you're talking about the animation then that aspect is not meant to be purely accurate because it just for the sake of awesome enjoyment and they have done something like that before which was in Iron Man vs Batman where Bruce Wayne brought out his godly suit the HellBat which starts draining his life force immediately but it was a cool sledgehammer start to the fight. Plus it not like many of Batman's suits would stand a chance against most of Iron Man's ones. Also just saying this but Death Battle did state that a lot of Dio's feats far outclass what Alucard has achieved and that time stopping ability is a pretty big edge with nothing Alucard had to counter that so being that overwhelmed then he would probably had to resort to drastic measures early on. 

I guess, I think my biggest problem is it didn't feel like a very immersive portrayal of the characters. Alucard didn't have any prominent moments in it that made me think "OH that's cool!"

Compared to say, Thor vs Vegeta. Vegeta may have lost, but seeing Vegeta use Ego to tank Mjolnir, and hit Thor back with that same amount of power was a highlight. Little bits like that where it feels entirely in character and gives them their moment even if they don't win.

[Zahnrad]

Oh and Fun Fact: This isn't actually Excalibur's first apperance on the Death Battle channel. (this was back when the channel was named Screwattack and One Minute Melee was hosted on the channel)

[TheSteelMushroom]

3 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

Oh and Fun Fact: This isn't actually Excalibur's first apperance on the Death Battle channel. (this was back when the channel was named Screwattack and One Minute Melee was hosted on the channel)

I remember that and it was an amazing and bad ass animation that I loved. Though at the time I didn't realise that was meant to look like Excalibur. But yeah OMM went to another channel and got replaced by DBX.