Why are the skills and design ideas of warframe getting worse and worse?

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

All frames does a better job than her at everything though, that is her problem. They also do it without having a kit that is at constant war with itself. She has a kit that wants her to be both mid/close ranged and long ranged, with CC skills to survive but damage skills that promote close combat, without access to melee weapons at that. Her stats are also low on survival, for a frame that has skills designed for getting close. She literally needs to stop and spam CC in order to survive getting close to deal some small portion of slash damage.

Ontop of that, in higher content that slash damage is utterly pointless since it only reaches a couple of thousand per tick, which wont help you actually kill anything faster, because you probably hit so hard already with your weapons that a few thousand per tick wont make a difference to improve your kill speed. She has sub par CC, no actual damage improving buffs, a weak survival buff and low damage on her skills that deal damage themselves.

Though I dont know which frame is actually worse of atm, Yareli or Gyre.

I think you guys are missing her functionality. She can hold up to 15 enemies in DoT stasis for very low energy, applies two procs and supports squad survival....and that's just her first ability. 

Her third ability is so good, it is heavily subsumed for high level use...which must mean there's much more to it than simply scaling. 

Yes, her second ability is most effective in wider tilesets but its DR, built in invincibility phase, easier activation of Yareli's passive and easy circling of enemies makes it much more effective than it gets credit for. 

All of that doesn't matter to players who don't prefer her playstyle...and that's fine for the purpose of variety. However, if players who actually use her in high level...or just as a favorite...are telling players who don't normally use her that she's good, then I don't understand why the pushback. I don't care if your goal is to force DE to change her into some kind of generic package but don't knock the players that enjoy using her. Not every frame and weapon is for everybody. Again, for variety's sake. 

[Hypernaut1]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

I mean you’re the one making wild exaggerations about Yareli’s performance. So I agree. There’s no reason for DE to take any of your claims seriously.

At this point, it seems like you just want a back and forth "no you" argument. I'm over it. Have fun whining about Yareli. 

I won't mind any buffs to her anyway, as long as it's not overdone. 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

5 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

At this point, it seems like you just want a back and forth "no you" argument. I'm over it. Have fun whining about Yareli. 

I won't mind any buffs to her anyway, as long as it's not overdone. 

I think I'll follow suit here. I actually don't have a reason to convince anyone to use what I love to use. Play how you like guys and I'll continue to do the same.

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

There's not much to expand upon without ......expanding. I mean who makes Puncture and Magnetic builds even against the factions it's good against? It's niche compared to say viral which halves health bars which everyone has or slash which is just extra damage. They need to be given a general use like Impact did for Finishers.

Weapons boil down to crit or status. When was the last gimmick build that didn't involve either of the two? 

Armor strip became all or nothing. If you didn't have it, things become a lot more difficult.

Eximus was sorta good idea idea but still comes down to blasting them with as much damage as possible so you can treat them like normal enemies after breaking the overshield. 

So anything that isn't hyper focused on what's "good" just gets looked down upon. Hydroid should be good against Corpus with Tentacle Swarm for example. It isn't. 

[SneakyErvin]

20 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Nyx or Hydroid are easily worse.

Gyre would be good if DE actually let her be the DPS frame she’s designed to be.

They are definently down there, but Nyx is a damn fine survival frame with augment on her #4. And yeah Gyre could be good, but she ends up as Yareli atm with damage output that is nearly non-existant and relies on a crit buff only. Heck, Gyre was good, until DE nerfed her and claimed it was due to engine performance, even if there would be 100 different ways to solve that and leave her damage as it was. I think what makes Yareli worse in my eyes compared to Nyx and Hydroid is because you must spam with her to achieve any form of CC to rely on. While on Nyx you either dont care, or you can just cast chaos and screw up alot more enemies with a single cast. Kinda same with Hydroid and tentacles, while also having scaling damage. Dont get me wrong though, none of them are in a very good spot at all, they are still in the extreme bottom 5 out of 50 (soon 51) frames.

18 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

I think you guys are missing her functionality. She can hold up to 15 enemies in DoT stasis for very low energy, applies two procs and supports squad survival....and that's just her first ability. 

Her third ability is so good, it is heavily subsumed for high level use...which must mean there's much more to it than simply scaling. 

Yes, her second ability is most effective in wider tilesets but its DR, built in invincibility phase, easier activation of Yareli's passive and easy circling of enemies makes it much more effective than it gets credit for. 

All of that doesn't matter to players who don't prefer her playstyle...and that's fine for the purpose of variety. However, if players who actually use her in high level...or just as a favorite...are telling players who don't normally use her that she's good, then I don't understand why the pushback. I don't care if your goal is to force DE to change her into some kind of generic package but don't knock the players that enjoy using her. Not every frame and weapon is for everybody. Again, for variety's sake. 

But what is the use of the procs? To get slightly more damage out of a galv mod or CO? Things that likely already sit on weapons that completely faceroll whatever you face, or cant use for that matter due to the fishstick limitations.

Uhm where do you get that idea from, where is the data for that usage? Are you 100% sure you dont have it backwards, that is the most subsumed skill on Yareli i.e the skill preferably replaced with something else. Because it is either that skill or Merulina to replace, while Merulina is slightly more lukewarm garbage and not the hot turd that aquablades is on her, if you can stand the K-drive mechanics that is.

There is a difference between a frame simply being liked and a frame being factually strong and liked at the same time. Yareli is not strong, people may like her, but she is still not strong. She has a horribly disjointed kit with anti-synergies, requires spamming CC to stay alive, has a very unimpactful ultimate and gimmick movement that was terrible already years ago with K-drives. She doesnt tank very well, her CC is subpar compared to other frames and her damage skills deal horrible damage. She isnt a dps frame, nor a CC frame and not a tank, and the little bonus she has comes from her passive and applies to a single weapon category. Now if they did something like giving her #1 a similar debuff to chakram, her #4 scaling damage similar to flechette and her #3 changed into a constantly pulsing "wave" (think pillage but pure damage) scaling with range/duration she could actually be a solid frame. Since all of it would work together, you wouldnt have very close ranged requirements on a frame that has no access to melee, nor durability to survive. Plus turning aquablades into a pillage-like skill would be fit the water theme, since it would practically work like a real wave.

[Loza03]

In my opinion, there's a bunch of reasons, some good, some not great.

 

The first is, for lack of a better word, running out of stuff. Like, I don't even think it's a creativity issue - DE clearly aren't running out of creativity, for better or worse (like Voruna's design as a 'werewolf' or not, you have to admit it's creative), but I mean in a literal capacity. Early frames like Volt, Ember, Excalibur and Nyx had the benefit that there were basic ideas to work with that could be translated in simple and thus effective ways. Case study, Volt vs Gyre. Both are at least partly based on the idea of an electrokinetic character. Volt has some out-there concepts like electromagnetic barriers and going fast, but they're still pretty simple and direct, and his two offensive powers are just the most straightfoward things - throwing a lightning bolt, and throwing a LOT of lightning bolts. It's conceptually simple, but most practical and effective things are. But now, that ground's already covered, if Gyre just threw around lightning, she'd just be Volt in a skirt, so they need to get more creative. In turn, more 'creative' solutions lack that simple and direct practicality.

The second is that DE are getting more skilled - and thus probably also getting bored. DE aren't limited by simple concepts anymore and wouldn't necessary, and they wouldn't necessarily be satisfying to make. There's probably a couple of concepts not treaded and could be done simply (like they haven't seriously done a Fantasy-Esque Paladin, Bard or even really a Wizard archetype frame?), but on some level it'd probably be disappointing. DE can and gleefully does make frames that require flitting between powers, playing with practically arcane amounts of mechanics. Why would they WANT to do something boring but practical? That's not necessarily fun or pushes their own skills, or those of their playerbase. One could just as easily call this anything between ambition and arrogance.

And then the third reason is... say it with me, Balance. Warframes don't get the same damage scaling mods as weapons do, so they fall off in terms of damage way faster, and CC has effectively just got a single set level of usefulness that is highly contextual. Movement abilities also need maps that work with that movement and DE are much better at making movement systems than maps or enemies that work with said movement system. And, with the aforementioned simplicty = effectiveness point, this gets compounded. How do you make a frame based on enemy manipulation or other types of CC when there's already several frames that can just outright lock down entire maps? How do you make a powerful frame that's focused around being a destructive force when any frame can just equip the Bramma for a portable artillery strike and frames like Saryn or Xaku are walking acts of terrorism?

It's the same problem that Dungeons and Dragons has struggled with regarding it's 'Martial' characters, AKA Linear Fighter Quadratic Wizard. Fighters rely only on being stronger, whilst Wizards get stronger, and also get more options, so introducing new fighter concepts becomes harder (since there's only so many ways to swing an axe around) and doing so in a way that is satisfying is difficult when a caster can probably do the same thing (unstoppable tank can be achieved just as effectively by a master wizard who can project magical shields as it can be by someone who just takes a punch well).

[Vasari.Nagushi]

In my opinion they arent running out of ideas. They are just doing half of an actual idea. During the announcement and the creation period of Veruna, they explained that they didn't want her to be a melee/claw focused frame.

BUT! what they failed in my opinion a bit is creativity to fully flesh out this warframes concept/design. Now don't get me wrong, she looks more like a Dragon than a wolf frame. Tennogen is a thing so hopefully someone can make her a better helmet and skin. Also the tail.... I don't like that I will have to purchase and or farm for a concept that should already be on a frame. That could have been a toggle on and toggle off option like prime armor. Also she is more like a evil kitsune now than a wolf due to the amount of tails they gave her instead of just making one decently fluffy one. Personally I dont like the energy tail they could have just used kubrow fur or made it solid. Outside of the design of the frame lets jump to abilities.

PASSIVE: You get to choose between 4 different passives. I do agree that only 2 of these are somewhat decent. (Meaning the 2nd and 3rd) The super parkour is dumb... Could have just made it maybe reload speed or a bigger vaccum/fetch effect "since you control a pack". The 4th passive i think should be thrown away and come up with something completely different. (if anyone has ideas please share them. Maybe a constant bleed effect with ur melee or something) In my opinion they could have made her passive actually summon wolves like kubrows that actually do damage and can stay alive like Khora's Kavat. (Just recast or cast a different wolf when one dies and they revive with a timer. Health based off of strength) But also only allowing one out at a time since only one passive can be activated at a time. I find the floating heads dumb and would have preferred a bit more time and care taken to her "packs" designs, the heads are cool though. If you are concerned about how you are going to keep the wolf alive all you have to do is cast the same wolf for double or triple the cost once it dies or spawn a different wolf, remember health is based on Strength. Plus with the new Archon Shards that shouldn't ever be an issue anymore and untill you beat Vielbreaker you can just revert to recasting or summoning a new one. (Wukong does it all the time 😂 only difference is you have a pack of wolves. Don't forget you hold down the ability buttons to activate a passive.)

Ability Number 1: Personally I enjoy the change to how it works compared to Ash and Loki. Its a quick cast and doesn't need to last to long plus it had duration on it like all of the others the only difference is you get seen when you melee or shoot. Oh! And it increases movement speed. (This should honestly be the helminth ability.)

Ability Number 2: Headshots drop energy orbs while melee drops health. I like this but I don't at the same time. I feel like every frame is now a support frame. It kind of pushes the support frames out of the water. I would have preferred a "HOWL" cause she is a wolf frame. The howl can go in a cone like attack and slow enemies or disarm them or both. Oh! Or maybe just fear the enemies.

But if you arent one for a howling wolf then maybe a chaining attack. Similar to Excalibur's 1st ability or Atlas punching. while also adding bleed effect. A reused ability sure but it could work. But you could take the percentage of enemies hit and affected by bleed and work that into gaining a boost of armor or once they die it works like Nekros desecrate. More loot and doing damage at the same time but not in a sit still form of play style but can help solo players still get some extra loot or the entire party depending on how fast you work spam the ability. (Lemme know if you have any different ideas for this ability. I feel like everyone has healing or energy gain now. Time for something new.)

Ability Number 3: This ability places 5 random status effects on enemies that stack up to 10. Nothing really wrong with this ability. I like that its random and can stack plus its pretty interesting. Can't wait to see what it can do.

Ability Number 4: I was SO HAPPY WHEN SHE WENT ON ALL FOUR LEGS I WAS LIKE YES! FINALLY!  She jumped up and gets to scratch/bite up to 5 times I think it was. I was like okay okay show off that run/walk animation i wanna see those four legs working im excited...... And then they dropped the ball.... SHE STOOD UP ON 2 LEGS TO MOVE AND THEN FLOPPED DOWN ON ALL FOUR TO JUMP AT AN ENEMY!? cool concept but you came half way on it. You have the Wolf inspired Archon that can run on all four legs. You have the animations, and models to work with and you didn't do the one thing a lot of people like me were wanting. To me this 4th/ultimate ability felt like it should have been the 1st ability and we should have gotten a new 4th.

Make her run ON ALL 4 LEGS, she can bullet jump, double jump, and even slide like everyone else.Just when she is moving on the ground she is on all four legs. Also could have finally had some really cool wall running but that's asking to much lol just keep it to if your on the ground you are on all 4 legs. Increase the movement speed and the jump damage attack can still be there so after 5 hits your back on two feet again. Plus you could use your other abilities while in this form. Obviously you can always quick switch back to your two feet by hitting the switch weapon key. This allowing you to use your weapons but while still on a timer you can just press the 4th again and you'll leap on someone thus bringing you back on all 4 legs again.

 

I wouldn't say Digital Extremes is running out of ideas or they are getting lazy. I would say they are missing the mark on some of these concepts and this one kinda hurt to watch since it was teased last TennoCon and a bit before that. I understand one warframe cant be a singular concept for example inaros isnt just a mummy, shaped like anubis/scarab beetle that controls sand and beetles. Oh wait that is basically an egypt concept based on the movie known as "The Mummy." So yeah in a way its a singular concept. Obviously yes all of those things i listed about Inaros are several concepts but they all fall under the same category.

The wolf running a pack... Okay does she do wolf things? Is she a trap master why dont we see a trap ability? So your saying she is a wolf but cant howl or run on four legs... Interesting. Feel free to comment! I sorta went on a rant but i do enjoy the new warframe i just feel like they missed a golden opportunity to give her amazing qualities that could have made her stand out and stick to her theme.