Why are the skills and design ideas of warframe getting worse and worse?

[KitMeHarder]

43 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

But even more important vs. Corpus is the field’s immunity to nullifiers. Also, it’s easier to use than its competitors.

IDK if it works on demolyst, but Mag's Fracturing Crush is also permanent/immune to nullifiers. It also has...

• 80% more range
• 50% stronger base strip
• Gives loads of overshields
• Has a baked-in Natural Talent
• Etc...

49 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Caliban is my top pick for disruption incursions.

You really don't need that much AoE in disruption though. Personally I'd rather just use Tharros Strike/Unairu in combo with a much better frame.

[Surbusken]

My thing is more the whack baseline, the last of consistency.

As much as they want to sit on the fence, to not be held accountable, warframe lands on its own.

 

So some weapons get ammo nerfed to hell in a handbasket, but it's totally cool to spam the server up with 'charge weapons', throw some mirage in there for good measure.

Wukong's clone is the anti-christ, sure.

So go spawn a wukong specter... that has unlimited ammo, add a charger, ancient healer, shield osprey, a corrupted gunner, a moa and a rollerball... at the same time, which can't die from what I've seen and have all 4 players do it.

If you still aren't satisifed, throw in excal umbra with unlimted zarr sprinkled with intervals of your crew member with unlimited zarr.

Then at the same time they doing this narrative about automation, they release khal's swat team, a constant uptime triple pet.

Again I turn my head around and have to wonder what crew members are doing with a 10 min cooldown, then?

It's something like 30 active 'automated' pets a team can have, not to mention additional 28 nekros shadows, minimum 28. But wukong's twin, now THAT, we simply cannot abide, the dude minds, man.

The math there, is 1x nerfed frame, that started the biggest s-storm in warframe history, with 58 unresolved issues... lol.

Time well spent?

 

Some frames can CC disruption targets, CC on the index, others are disabled. Vanguard interaction is a coin toss too.

Frames that have a 4 second casting animation, others ½ second with clipping allowed.

I leveled sevagoth, and I am not even joking, I only got to try his 'ultimate' once. That's how long it takes to build it up. Everyone else can just spam 4 all they want?

Except grendal, he is disabled with no npcs around, the last thing you want to do is use his 4, which is... a movement mode? I thought those came with the frame.

Then Saryn can wall glitch from a continent away but khora must have line of sight?

So what are the rules, exactly? There aren't any.

 

Like, whomever designed that item that week, gets to decide what the rules are for it, unlimited ammo you say? Sure, why not.

This mod is disabled for that, that weapon can't use this arcane. So it goes for everything.

Which focus school abilities work on bosses, which in and of itself will vary, depending on the boss... lol. It just goes on like that.

Everything is one giant garbled mess, to the extreme.

 

They figure 'no rules' was their safe space away from accountability, but then turn around and don't understand why frames flop.

We can't just throw anything in there, there is an actual standard?!?!?!11 Didn't you get the memo.

Like imagine how bad you have to be at the parkour system, to feel k-drives on tiny maps are a fine substitute, lol. Certainly fits into the game I am playing.

So it would help if they actually played the game and I mean high-end played, then they'd know what the baseline, they tried to hide from all this time is. And then design the frames accordingly.

[sunderthefirmament]

18 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

IDK if it works on demolyst, but Mag's Fracturing Crush is also permanent/immune to nullifiers. It also has...

• 80% more range
• 50% stronger base strip
• Gives loads of overshields
• Has a baked-in Natural Talent
• Etc...

You really don't need that much AoE in disruption though. Personally I'd rather just use Tharros Strike/Unairu in combo with a much better frame.

The AOE comment is a good point, and I’m planning to redo my Caliban build. I think overextend is overkill on him, at least the way I’m using him. I have a glass cannon set up, and there are definitely a lot of nail biting moments lol. 
 

What I like about his 4 is that I can realistically maintain it on every entrance to the conduits’ room at once. Fire and forget… for 25ish seconds. 
 

It’s a solid ability, and it elevates his otherwise lackluster kit. I would like some changes for his and 2 and 3, and a complete redo on his 1. But DE doesn’t love revisiting old content, so I’m not going to hold my breath. 

[Cerikus]

6 hours ago, KiteForest_2035 said:

No matter what kind of mission, I have a stronger choice than him. You can say that he can do anything, but you can also say that he can do nothing.

This is purely player's preference. And that's great. You like to pick the best warframe for the job, I usually hate it and try to use suboptimal choices, because I find fun in it.
We all win.

6 hours ago, KiteForest_2035 said:

And I never thought it was a game that needed team cooperation. Most of my missions were completed by one person, but some missions would be easier to team up or produce more resources

Don't know how long you have been playing, but it used to. Warframe was very coop in the past and playing solo was most of the time bad idea, if not impossible.

6 hours ago, KiteForest_2035 said:

Nekros and Rhino may only have one or two skills that can be used, but they are very practical in multiplayer missions. Nidus is one of the warframe I mentioned earlier that can outperform Styanax in all aspects,at the same time, it can also add powerful buffs to teammates.Volt is a very powerful warframe.he can adapt to various missions through different builds, also easily defeat the open world boss of the Earth and Venus.The damage of xaku can grow with the enemy's level, and remove the enemy's defense in a large range.She can easily kill the attacking enemy in some high-level missions that do not need to move; Octavia can easily handle most of the mission in the game.

And Styanax has an easy 100% armor strip, can provide strong buff of shield and energy recharge for the team and can handle pretty much any mission. Nekros and Rhino are bad warframes, unless you don't need their gimmich for specific purpose. Nidus scales nicely, but against armored enemies he starts to fall of fast, because he has no armor strip. Can Volt do Steel path survival using only his abilities? Because Styanax can. Xaku is great, there is no debate there, but again the number of buffs their received was big. 

[SneakyErvin]

7 hours ago, KiteForest_2035 said:

Octavia'4 skill can make 1 skill stronger,this is already quite good synergy,as for the problem you mentioned, it can also be solved. Only one conductor is needed,and 1's level of mockery is not high,you need to 2 skill to make the enemy attack it steadily

Her #2 is horrible if you want any reliable efficiency from your #1 and avoid stray shots that might kill you. Thank the gods for Helminth so we can replace it.

[CollateralKaos]

Honestly my least favorite part of the new frames is their synergy more than anything. I mean, you can put a lot of their abilities together *practically* but not like they require the others to work. Yarelli literally has nothing that fits together, Styanax is the same albeit his grouping pairs really well with the other abilities, Gyre... is odd as she has weird indirect synergy, and Caliban is a hot mess of abilities. He is decent but none of them fit together other than theme.

 

Look at other frames and synergy is a hell of a lot better. Some are somewhat like those listed but looking at Gauss you have a kit that you should almost never helminth anything off of because the abilities have so many powerful interactions that you are just limiting yourself by replacing anything.

Wisp has a bunch of hidden interactions, Grendel practically requires half his kit at least, Nezha has a lot of hidden interactions, Oberon, Saryn, Harrow, Octavia, Sevagoth, Lavos, Gara. I just want frames to start taking more knowledge about them to be played or at the very least interact with their own abilities in a way that can augment their power with knowledgeable players.

[Kaggelos]

Im of the opinion that the game gets better and better as time goes on, barring some very minor exceptions (some melee stances after melee 2.999 rework).

My personal (therefore subjective and not a fact) gripe is the aesthetic of some of the more recent releases (Yareli, Gyre, Grendel, Caliban, Baruuk). Except Styanax, he looks dope (again, for me).

[cute_moth.npc]

I don't know if they are getting worse honestly? They have always had some terrible designs, Octavia is from years ago, we have always had flops here and there. Some of the new designs have really fun elements to them.

What does seem to be getting worse is their judgement. 

What's the point of nerfing a Warframe like Yareli when she's sitting near the bottom while literally Saryn and Mesa exist? 

Or Styanax, was he breaking the game because he could hover around? Players loved it and it wasn't ending the world. Like D.E. had an easy win in their hands with a Warframe players actually liked for the first time in a long time and they blew it for nothing.

GYRE what on earth was the point of giving her an automatic Zoom and Boom skill only to nerf it into the ground post release because it's the kind of skill you don't want in game? This is the height of poor planning, so maybe this scores a point for the feeling that design is getting worse I guess.

Why have they gone back and nerfed or kneecapped these new frames straight from release and ruined the hype over new Warframes for over a year when literally nothing they adjusted compared to the mass nukes and Kuva weapons we've been handed out?! There's no relativity at all lol.

For me on top of these weird, basically nonsensical adjustments, there's no follow through.

There is literally never any kind of give and take from what I can see. They probably scooped out more than half of Gyre's damage when they turned down her undesirable skill, then just walked. Not like "we want this Warframe to be more active so take some of that damage from Rotorswell and move it into her active skills instead", it's just Nerf and Turf.

Nerf and Turf lol. I'm going to go copyright that ^^

 

[SiriSnugglebottoms]

14 hours ago, KiteForest_2035 said:

Lavos has a good ability to hurt, but the frequency of release is too low, which makes it difficult to use his power in general Mission,main purpose is to be the captain of unlimited energy; Chroma has a high survivability and weapon damage buff, so it can be used in more environments. It can also double its cash income with 4

If you think Lavos' cast frequency is too low you're not modding/playing him right. As long as there's enemies you can chuck out his 4 every 5 seconds through the use of the Swift Bite augment (which lowers the cooldown of itself in addition to other abilities) and probe. Lavos has issues but THAT is not one of them.

[KiteForest_2035]

12 hours ago, Cerikus said:

Can Volt do Steel path survival using only his abilities?

But all warframes can easily complete steel path survival independently through weapons,and Volt's shield and buff ability can make it easier than other warframes;

 

13 hours ago, Cerikus said:

Nidus scales nicely, but against armored enemies he starts to fall of fast, because he has no armor strip.

Nidus not only has scales, but also has passive ability and 3,if these two forces are properly operated, he can walk in front of enemies within 300 levels,211143211143...It is easy to deal with 9999 level enemies with weapons

13 hours ago, Cerikus said:

Xaku is great, there is no debate there, but again the number of buffs their received was big. 

Xaku doesn't need other players to provide her with buffs, just 2 and 3.When facing a level 100 enemy, my xaku can use 14 empty guns to attack the enemy at the same time, and each shot will cause 10000 damage... If the enemy's level reaches 9999, the damage of a shot is 999900,with out any other buff

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

16 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Honestly there’s no real good explaination.

frames like Caliban and Gyre should’ve been easy W’s for DE. But instead they chose to ignore those frames higher potential in favor of settling for the mediocre state they currently exist in. Styanax is also kind of suffering that same fate, but he’s in a better state.

And Yareli’s just that bafflingly bad frame that occasionally gets released.

I think DE’s just lost the passion for creating new frames, or things have gotten to the point where they turn a profit on them regardless of how good the frame is that they don’t have to care anymore.

Regardless it is infuriating that the titular Warframes are progressively becoming more and more of an afterthought every update. Nothing but glorified pedestals for whatever deluxe skin is releasing next.

Strongly disagree here. In fact, I'm still trying to figure out this community's criteria for a "good frame". 

[KiteForest_2035]

1 hour ago, SiriSnugglebottoms said:

If you think Lavos' cast frequency is too low you're not modding/playing him right. As long as there's enemies you can chuck out his 4 every 5 seconds through the use of the Swift Bite augment (which lowers the cooldown of itself in addition to other abilities) and probe. Lavos has issues but THAT is not one of them.

Even 5 second CD are very dangerous in the face of heaps of enemies, and CD are only one of the reasons for low release frequency,The biggest problem is actually the charging before releasing the power

[KiteForest_2035]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Strongly disagree here. In fact, I'm still trying to figure out this community's criteria for a "good frame". 

I subjectively think that the warframe that can complete a certain mission better than other warframes is "good frame",multiple warframes that are good at the same field can exist at the same time

[SiriSnugglebottoms]

41 minutes ago, KiteForest_2035 said:

Even 5 second CD are very dangerous in the face of heaps of enemies, and CD are only one of the reasons for low release frequency,The biggest problem is actually the charging before releasing the power

It's really not because Lavos can easily use Madurai for the 50% cast speed since you have no need for energy. Besides if that's something you even want to account for it's a problem many frames other than Lavos have. If it's such a huge concern it can also just be cast from behind a wall and when you go to reset the cooldown probe will stun all non-eximus units thanks to the electric procs.

No, Lavos' issue is that Catalyze doesn't work on the Z-axis and that element infusions are clunky.

[Cerikus]

1 hour ago, KiteForest_2035 said:

But all warframes can easily complete steel path survival independently through weapons,and Volt's shield and buff ability can make it easier than other warframes;

Does warframe's ability to hold a gun or even buff it inherently mean a good warframe? Frost can hold a gun and even buff it... is he good? Loki can hold a gun while being invisible... is he GOOD? Hydroid can hold a gun... IS HE GOOD?

I am not saying being able to clear Steelpath (without good guns) means a great warframe, but it means the warframe is definitelly not bad.

1 hour ago, KiteForest_2035 said:

weapons

again... weapon doesn't mean a good warframe :)

1 hour ago, KiteForest_2035 said:

Xaku doesn't need other players to provide her with buffs, just 2 and 3.When facing a level 100 enemy, my xaku can use 14 empty guns to attack the enemy at the same time, and each shot will cause 10000 damage... If the enemy's level reaches 9999, the damage of a shot is 999900,with out any other buff

I meant buffs as in - the amount of changes DE had to make - the amount of buffs DE had to make. Xaku were like C rank warframe when released. After many buffs they became like A+ rank.

[KiteForest_2035]

4 hours ago, SiriSnugglebottoms said:

that element infusions are clunky

I thought the same thing.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

7 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Strongly disagree here. In fact, I'm still trying to figure out this community's criteria for a "good frame". 

You’re going to get a lot of different answers.

some people think frames that barely scale past level 20 are good. Others think a frames only good if it easily scales past level 2000.

Also, you can disagree all you want, but it’s not going to make Yareli perform any better at higher levels, and it’s not going to increase Gyres damage output to the same level as other DPS frames.

[Hypernaut1]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

You’re going to get a lot of different answers.

some people think frames that barely scale past level 20 are good. Others think a frames only good if it easily scales past level 2000.

Also, you can disagree all you want, but it’s not going to make Yareli perform any better at higher levels, and it’s not going to increase Gyres damage output to the same level as other DPS frames.

I feel like Yareli gets a bad rap, maybe it's because of her visual design or something. 

I find that she does well in all content. Her 1 CCs, her 4 CCs by gathering groups and does a bit of scaling damage, her aquablades give slash procs and her KDrive absorbs damage and buffs your secondary. If you have a weapon that helps to strip armor, I don't see how she's that bad honestly. She's not a super nuke, but she's definitely a decent offensive frame, and has some defense. 

Her play style is active, she has defense and CC, can do decent damage in SP. What exactly is she missing? 

My biggest complaint with her is the weird camera angle animation coming off of the Drive. It's disorienting. If it was smoother, it would be easier to transition quickly from ground to damage absorbing drive. 

So yeah- what's really considered a "good-  frame then? 

 

[sunderthefirmament]

5 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

So yeah- what's really considered a "good-  frame then? 

Here’s my answer, but obviously I can only speak for myself.
 

To sum it up, I believe a frame should be fun to play, fit well into groups without being disruptive, have scaling, be relevant and not immediately obsolete (while not making an older frame obsolete), have synergies, fit well into existing content, and have at least some viable diversity with respect to builds and modding.

 

I go into greater detail on each of those criteria in the forum post linked above.

 

 

 

[slava.ukraine]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb sunderthefirmament:

Here’s my answer, but obviously I can only speak for myself.
 

To sum it up, I believe a frame should be fun to play, fit well into groups without being disruptive, have scaling, be relevant and not immediately obsolete (while not making an older frame obsolete), have synergies, fit well into existing content, and have at least some viable diversity with respect to builds and modding.

 

I go into greater detail on each of those criteria in the forum post linked above.

 

 

 

there are scalable skills. however far too little.
and if a usable warframe is "designed", then all other warframes look lousy. most warframes are played with 1-2 skills. and second skill mostly comes from helmith.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I feel like Yareli gets a bad rap, maybe it's because of her visual design or something. 

I find that she does well in all content. Her 1 CCs, her 4 CCs by gathering groups and does a bit of scaling damage, her aquablades give slash procs and her KDrive absorbs damage and buffs your secondary. If you have a weapon that helps to strip armor, I don't see how she's that bad honestly. She's not a super nuke, but she's definitely a decent offensive frame, and has some defense. 

Her play style is active, she has defense and CC, can do decent damage in SP. What exactly is she missing? 

My biggest complaint with her is the weird camera angle animation coming off of the Drive. It's disorienting. If it was smoother, it would be easier to transition quickly from ground to damage absorbing drive. 

So yeah- what's really considered a "good-  frame then? 

 

How about the fact that the CC does nothing. It’s just crowd control. Yareli needs something more to work alongside it and she doesn’t.

the slash procs are redundant when the damage behind them is negligible.

And Merulinas damage resistance is undermined by the fact that your mobility now has the integrity of a wet noodle.

 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Here’s my answer, but obviously I can only speak for myself.
 

To sum it up, I believe a frame should be fun to play, fit well into groups without being disruptive, have scaling, be relevant and not immediately obsolete (while not making an older frame obsolete), have synergies, fit well into existing content, and have at least some viable diversity with respect to builds and modding.

 

I go into greater detail on each of those criteria in the forum post linked above.

 

 

 

Just my input. Synergies aren’t mandatory for a frame to be good. They can help benefit a frame, but sometimes DE goes out of their way to create synergies that either do nothing (like Gauss’s 1 picking up his 3’s damage), or create an inconvenience (Baruuks 1 increasing the range of his 3).

The rest I agree with.

[(XBOX)K1jker]

Styanax isn't powerful?

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, KiteForest_2035 said:

Even 5 second CD are very dangerous in the face of heaps of enemies, and CD are only one of the reasons for low release frequency,The biggest problem is actually the charging before releasing the power

Not really a problem for him. He's a very durable frame and his 4 can be built around either constant use or as a big map clear while focusing on other things for him. He's practically the best tank frame in the game due to his natural health and armor along with more or less every skill in his kit causing a CC. He can also be built as a more balanced Rhino/Chroma thanks to Helminth, subsumed Roar and high strength+range builds. He's one of the most powerful frames if built right and he has a couple of solid builds to achieve that. I build mine so I have around 15sec CD on 4 and a 75% roar buff that also debuffs enemies and knock them on their ass, it also reaches team mates up to uhm 70m away or something.

Plus in content without many enemies to help reset CDs there is mostly little point to use skills in the first place.

[Hypernaut1]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

How about the fact that the CC does nothing. It’s just crowd control. Yareli needs something more to work alongside it and she doesn’t.

the slash procs are redundant when the damage behind them is negligible.

And Merulinas damage resistance is undermined by the fact that your mobility now has the integrity of a wet noodle.

 

Different strokes. I find that her CC is helpful, I don't mind the mobile on merulina that much, aqua blades is decent to me, doesnt need to be a nuke. 

I use her fine in SP and get skills come in handy. But you don't like her, that's fine. Not trying to convince you.