Styanax Axios Javelin feels terrible to use

[Berzerkules]

Axios Javelin is by far the most clunky and finicky grouping ability in this game. I'm about to just subsume pull or literally any other grouping ability over it just to have a reliable ability. 

For starters, if I want to group enemies I don't want the spear to go flying through the enemy and group up against a wall 30 meters away,  I want it to group where I click. Chances are there aren't enemies to group standing up against the wall where the guy gets pinned and all I've done is remove one guy from the battle field.  To group enemies close to where I want I either aim at their feet or jump up aim glide then aim down on them. It's just unnecessary extra steps that provide no real benefit.

Then it doesn't work on eximus. I get that it doesn't group eximus up but you can't proc the pull if you cast on an eximus, since it doesn't pull until it pins against a wall and eximus are cc immune. It just fails to do anything when cast on an eximus, that just feels bad. With the eximus density in SP I constantly find myself accidentally casting on a random enemy only for it to be an eximus, now I'm wasting energy, time, I have to recast again and hope I don't hit another eximus. 

I really want to like the frame. His 1 groups enemies for easy mass defense strip from his 2 and 3 is utility. He has almost everything I want in a frame. It almost feels really good to play, but the main crowd control ability I want to use before I strip defenses kills it for me. I can't even start a 2 ability rotation smoothly. 

 

[quxier]

4 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

Then it doesn't work on eximus. I get that it doesn't group eximus up but you can't proc the pull if you cast on an eximus, since it doesn't pull until it pins against a wall and eximus are cc immune. It just fails to do anything when cast on an eximus, that just feels bad. With the eximus density in SP I constantly find myself accidentally casting on a random enemy only for it to be an eximus, now I'm wasting energy, time, I have to recast again and hope I don't hit another eximus. 

Why it cannot work like Yareli's 1st:

- cast on normal enemies: cc them (hover) and give us damage buff

- cast on eximus: NO cc but you still get damage buff

Why cannot it pull enemies towards Eximus (or something) without affecting Eximus (no CC for it)?

4 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

For starters, if I want to group enemies I don't want the spear to go flying through the enemy and group up against a wall 30 meters away,  I want it to group where I click. Chances are there aren't enemies to group standing up against the wall where the guy gets pinned and all I've done is remove one guy from the battle field.  To group enemies close to where I want I either aim at their feet or jump up aim glide then aim down on them. It's just unnecessary extra steps that provide no real benefit.

I wonder about this ability & it's costs:

- Khora - Ensnare: costs 50, good duration, grounded, probably doesn't work on eximus, good ability

- Mag - pull: 25 energy, towards you, doesn't work on enemies

- Zephyr - Airburst: 50 energy, on contact, 2 modes, mod increases 2nd'ary damage

- Styanax - Axios Javelin: 15 energy, needs enemy (same as Khora)

For Khora it make sense that it takes 50 energy. Mag is weaker and it casts towards you (may be problem for some) so it's ok that it costs 1/2 of Ensnare. Zephyr is weaker Ensnare but stronger Pull so it should cost 25-50 but cost 50. Styanax on other hand cost ONLY 15. Should it cost more and be better (e.g. vortex on any contact). Or should we decrease energy even farther? Or give it some other boosts?

[sunderthefirmament]

5 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

Axios Javelin is by far the most clunky and finicky grouping ability in this game. I'm about to just subsume pull or literally any other grouping ability over it just to have a reliable ability. 

Coil Horizon is also clunky and finicky.  A physics ability that you can't throw upward with a delay on the grouping portion.

 

But yeah, they could both use some help.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Axios Javelin should always create a vortex regardless of hitting an enemy, and if it does hit an enemy it creates a damage buff AOE.

[quxier]

4 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

9 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

Axios Javelin is by far the most clunky and finicky grouping ability in this game. I'm about to just subsume pull or literally any other grouping ability over it just to have a reliable ability. 

Coil Horizon is also clunky and finicky.  A physics ability that you can't throw upward with a delay on the grouping portion.

 

But yeah, they could both use some help.

If you compare Coil Horizon to other "tap to create vortex on contact" like Mag/Pull or Zephyr/Airburst then yeah it will always be clunky because of that delay. However if you compare it to methods to create vortex ANYWHERE then Coil Horizon is the only ability that can do that (I'm not sure about Pull when cast in the air). That delay makes it easier to create vortex where you want.

Has Coil horizon problems? Sure. You cannot aim it in all degree (e.g. cast upwards). Durations may be low.

Do you really want Coil horizon's feature (create votex everywhere)? It's very necessary. I could see play with that feature if it were more reliable or easier to use. Subsuming probably most grouping abilities makes my experience much better.

1 hour ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Axios Javelin should always create a vortex regardless of hitting an enemy, and if it does hit an enemy it creates a damage buff AOE.

The "always create vortex" part is great. However I would rather have something more reliable than AOE buffs. We have frames like Caliban or Sevagoth where without specific setup or huge stats I barely see difference.

If it has to be some kind of AOE buff then I would prefer:

- 2x combo gain + 25% (maybe more) ammo efficiency (with 100 bullets, you will use only 75), maybe stackable to some not so high value

- some synergy to other abilities

  

9 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

I have to recast again and hope I don't hit another eximus. 

You have forgotten about jumps that it does when you are in the air, making aiming much worse.

 

[Birdframe_Prime]

On 2022-12-26 at 2:20 PM, quxier said:

- Zephyr - Airburst: 50 energy, on contact, 2 modes, mod increases 2nd'ary damage

Don't forget; 25 energy cost in air, has damage multiplier (on very low base damage) for hitting multiple enemies.

[Tiltskillet]

22 hours ago, quxier said:

However if you compare it to methods to create vortex ANYWHERE then Coil Horizon is the only ability that can do that

Can't Airburst do this?  Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean.  There's also the Vazarin ability.

22 hours ago, quxier said:

(I'm not sure about Pull when cast in the air).

In the air, Pull still attempts to pull to where the frame was when it was cast.  

[quxier]

3 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

On 2022-12-26 at 8:24 PM, quxier said:

However if you compare it to methods to create vortex ANYWHERE then Coil Horizon is the only ability that can do that

Can't Airburst do this?  Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean.  

All abilities requires enemy to proc (Styanax', Khora's) or contact (Airburst). On other hand you detonate Coil horizon wherever you are (sure you need jump & stuffs).

3 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

There's also the Vazarin ability.

Ah, right you can detonate when it's "flying".

4 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

On 2022-12-26 at 3:20 PM, quxier said:

- Zephyr - Airburst: 50 energy, on contact, 2 modes, mod increases 2nd'ary damage

Don't forget; 25 energy cost in air

I've tested it long time ago and it still hasn't costed 1/2 (25 energy) with other frames. So I haven't remember it.

 

4 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

has damage multiplier (on very low base damage) for hitting multiple enemies.

is this even "note worthy"? Styanax' has some damage as well but it's just small.

ps. but augment is nice

[jessica_girlsoft]

do you know if u jump before using stynax 1 then it pins the enemies to the ground instead of a wall?

[Berzerkules]

1 hour ago, jessica_girlsoft said:

do you know if u jump before using stynax 1 then it pins the enemies to the ground instead of a wall?

yup. it was in the original post. 

On 2022-12-26 at 12:42 AM, Berzerkules said:

To group enemies close to where I want I either aim at their feet or jump up aim glide then aim down on them. It's just unnecessary extra steps that provide no real benefit.