This gameplay shown by Pablo doesn’t get me excited.

[Circle_of_Psi]

19 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

-snip-

Burh..

I legit just responded to the person and agreed/respected that they are unconvinced and is up to them how they wish to see it and said we can leave it as that, I'm not sure why you felt the need to continue it.

[TheArmchairThinker]

32 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

but seriously do you waste your time stalking the comments made by members here like this? 

Even looking at the most recent activity like this thread will give you a glimpse of what kind of user you're facing, no need to do a full background check like you and your Unreal Engine 5

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

8 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Looks like I have to be strictly formal. I never expected this.

 

I do not think you have to be strictly formal. Not if you don't want to I mean. I believe I am writing in a more informal manner, because I like the people I am addressing or conversing with to feel relaxed and at ease, but I also recognise and acknowledge that my conversational patterns may tend to be interpreted as formal. For example, who uses conversational patterns in informal conversations? Well, actually I do, as odd as that might sound, its just the way my mind thinks and words follow, so then I often have to clarify I am intending to be informal, even if it seems otherwise. Fun yes? 

Also like last time, I hope you do not mind, that I will only quote select sections of your post to address. I will read everything you write, so I am not ignoring anything. I just don't think its wise to address everything to comment on. I will also try to focus more on video game matters, unless its an area I think is important. Like last time, if you think I overlooked an especially poignant or important point you made, feel free to reemphasis or ask me to address it. There may be instances where I think I already addressed a point you make, and may just refer to a prior point I made, albeit paraphrased. Cheers. 

Great explanation and perspectives on design in video games. It was a joy to read. I also really appreciate that you are fond of architecture in its many forms. On the topic of reciprocity I agree with you. I would only add that, individuals do not always need to be the recipient of reciprocity to attempt to be the first to act. Even as a reaction. I think you demonstrated that you are capable of great consideration and intellectual prowess with your various observations and explanations. Intelligence and knowledge is a type of power. You often emphasis ideas of agency, so and correct me if I am wrong, you also acknowledge there may be some situations, in which the dynamic means, that you are in a greater position to extend the idea of reciprocity first. Simply because you can, and not necessarily because the other party should. 

 

8 hours ago, Felsagger said:

I have lapsus mentis like any other human who roams this world. I am not the exception.

I have faults and I am far from being 100 percent coherent. I should strive for such behavior but clarity of mind takes a lot of years in the making. The formulation of a concise and precise mind requires intense education and laborious training. I have my burn outs. I have my shortcomings too. My human nature is carried everywhere. I can't fake it. I can't hide it. Even putting effort on having zero faults is without any doubt an oxymoron on my part. 

I do believe that precise, concise and brief is a motto in mathematics and physics. But do believe too that being exhaustive is fundamental for mind focusing and endurance. Yes, endurance matters the most for writers and novelists. My education are the hard science but again I should master critical thinking achieving clarity of mind. The key word that I miss is consistency. 

Consistency is by far one of the hardests habit for any type of discipline. I do not question what account is responding. I do not question if I am being probed. I do not question if the level of intellectual engagement increases exponentially. This is immaterial to me. However I focus on the IDEA. I know that many known people talk about the work of this linguist that was a well known teacher at MIT. Noam Chomsky. This dude, is not an easy pill to swallow. This guy is very complex, demands a lot mental focusing and requires surgical hand to understand what he's talking about. 

Language could be seen as a program. But decoding this program is even harder. The idea of the universal grammar exists. This dude dedicated his life explaining this hard concept. You understand it quite well. The way you express yourself, tells me a lot about your skills and level of education. That's nice. We should have this level of fun somehow. :P

 

I don't find anything here too disagreeable, but I would add a little bit, and you can see if you disagree or agree. Do you think that some of your observations and points about, may be context dependant and have range and degrees of application. For example, do you believe its possible, that depending on certain factors, like environment, education, attitudes around education, parenting styles, peers, and so on, the development of thoughtfulness, ability to comprehend ideas, relative ease or difficulty in comprehension different ideas, and depth of ideas, and so on, do you think they can change based on different variables? 

Like are you familiar with the role of discretionary effort in regards to education and workplace activity? Its been a while since I have studied related ideas, but basically a few different studies generally suggest that when individuals want to do something of their own accord, they will tend to naturally give more effort than otherwise or if they were forced to do something, they do not want to do. This is important to consider for a few different reasons, for example, if you want people to work harder in a business... a place that has employees that want to work there, because they may be sincerely or genuinely interested or excited about the project, what they are doing, and so on, they will work harder and the quality of their work will usually be better, there are a lot of advantages. Its also a type of effort that... its not necessarily conscious. Like the studies suggest, that specific type of extra effort can't be achieved with say other incentives, like money, or the threat or concern of being fired or punished. Whilst they may in certain contexts provide certain types of motivation to certain kinds of people, discretionary effort doesn't work that way. 

What does that mean? Well, in education or work, if you can make individuals excited and enthusiastic about a certain idea, activity or field or interest. If you can make them care in a sincere and genuine way, then teaching the, or getting them to apply effort to learning or working becomes much much easier. Its most likely healthier and brings about more positive long term consequences as well, but you know, there are other variables and factors as well. 

I bring this up, becomes some of your framing suggests types of difficulty, that I agree can exist, but can also be relative. Relative due to complications surrounding all the variables that can influence and shape individuals attitudes, behaviours, ideals and preferences. Variables that can shape intuitions and gut instincts, even though the individuals in question may not recognise or understand such variables, and thus take them for granted. 

 

10 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Shall I decide and pull myself into being completely narcissistic. Shall I exercise my level of narcissism? Well, I get nothing in return. Why should I take that path in the first place? But I do believe on a realistic vision of having a fair perspective of things. Sorry if this burst the bubble of holding warframe as a great game. Such bubble bursts with time even if I do not intervene because such magic wears out. Again the problem that we face is level of exposition. The player of warframe experience the burn out effect because what motivates the player stays is the new toy on the block. It's the classical stick and carrot system that makes people grow tired of it. 

Can you think of a player that simply plays warframe and doesn't care of getting items or warframes? Are player rewarded with the extrinsics instead of the intrinsics? Is there a balance between the extrinsics and the intrinsics? The other games provides ready to have fun while Warframe uses the postposition of gratification method through farming and grinding. 

If such is the case why not improve farming and grinding? Other games like the one I mentioned keeps a moderate approach with item acquisition. At least these items are not shrouded on time gates that requires long waits. Of course this is a market and DE must make money. I get that. But some fun using immersible enemy engagement, more complex levels and unexpected boss encounters helps me stay in Warframe instead of looking for other games that provides this off the bat. 

 

 

Forgive me, but I am not sure you really answered the question I asked. Not directly I mean. Which is fair, sometimes a question invites a deeper more nuanced answer than just yes or no, or the former or the latter, but I think its a pertinent question, because it uncovers intent and priorities. Your response is great and I will address it, but you often add in new context that I do not find inherent to the base of my question. 

Like nothing about my question or your potential answer should relate to bursting the bubble of what Warframe is, rather its framing involves a persons conduct priority and values. You also have a tendency to do this. To paraphrase, someone can make a comment and one of your frequent replies will be along the lines of 'we can't criticise Warframe? We can't question the Developers? We can't offer suggestions or ways to improve the game or improving gaming or improve quality? Sorry if this upsets your view of Warframe, sorry if this offends your personal feelings towards Warframe, sorry of this doesn't conform to your belief that Warframe is beyond issues...' even if the comment you address doesn't imply any of what you suggest it does, 

We also do not need to prescribe narcissism to the behaviour of individuals wanting to persistently talk about a game that they admire or love, and wanting others to validate or agree with their perception and belief or feelings about the game. Many people naturally like comparing objects, often it can just come as intuition or pure reaction. Nothing inherently negative about that, can depend on other variables. Can also be acknowledged and understood, and shuffled around as a priority or ideal. The same can be said of issues with games as well. Which is why I posed my question, the way I did. 

I don't think its simple to so describe what or how motivates different types of Warframe players so easily. So to some of your questions, the answer depends. Likewise your question about improve depends as well, because for some, the sense towards current farming or grinding is satisfactory to overall more positive than negative. Though may also depend on the farm, where some more specific and conflicting feelings or thoughts may occur, but again, on the whole, may be deemed acceptable or satisfying. Or more positive than negative. I use different terms, because those terms can mean different things slightly, even if they can also be synonymous, plus Warframe often changes regardless, to varying degrees and those may shift perceptions and attitudes as well. 

This is also a question that can be asked a thousand times over. For example, why can't Elden Ring improve its graphics? To be even more better? Well, for some people, how it currently is, is fine, acceptable. Enjoyable. Improvements? I mean sure, improvements could be nice, but for some its simply not necessary in this specific instance. Whether its because they are okay with how its presented, or they would rather the time, money and resources be spent elsewhere (like on say DLC), or because they just don't have a strong feeling or sense that it needs to be improved or better than it currently is. Do you think that Horizon Burning Shores is in major need of more enemy diversity? Needs these improvements? Or better yet, think about a game you think is currently the best and of the highest quality that other games should aspire to? Think of two different aspects of the game? Think about which you think needs more improvement? By default, the other aspect of the game, in your eyes, is in less need of improvement, so in some ways, you could say you are accepting of it. Not necessarily that it can't be improved, just that you may be fine with how it is. 

 

11 hours ago, Felsagger said:

I don't stop people from playing warframe. 

 

I was referencing Horizon Forbidden West/Burning Shores. Also I don't blame you, but actions you undertook, did in fact, have a negative effect, even if it was unintended, of making someone else, not want to play Horizon. I am not saying we can control people. There have probably been a thousand instances, where I have probably unintentionally make someone feeling negative, about something I feel positive about... Just by accident because of the way I expressed myself. 

I could say I hate Mesa and Mesa mains. Why? Well she is a lazy Warframe, over powered, no skill, aim bot turret. Also guns? Not very ninja like, plus Mesa mains tend to be a bit weird and dramatic. Only Wisp players are more annoying, and they only like her because of her butt. Now Saryn... thats a real Warframe, who takes skill and is balanced. Saryn mains, we pretty much carry every squad and do the heavy lifting and give everyone XP, plus boobies. 

Now some people who like Mesa and Wisp, and are impartial towards Saryn, may subconsciously start to dislike Saryn and Saryn mains, just a tiny bit more. Even though what I said was just an example, and not actually how i feel or think, and was intentionally hypocritical. Its just how many people are, most people are subconsciously influenced a lot. The more we try to learn, study and understand this, the more we realise how much this happens. Its not absolute though, Like depends on how people feel about things in relative measure. Someone who loves Mesa, Wisp and Saryn won't be as susceptible, and they may identify the issue with myself, the person who made those claims, and no fault of the actual Warframe or other people who play them. People who like to consider what they like and why, can be resistant as well, and the more in-depth and comprehensive they can be about their preferences, the less likely they may be influenced by superficial takes by random people. 

That also being said, and I touched on this earlier, there are other variables like how tired a person is. When people are tired, they tend to be on auto pilot more, when doing basics, and thus can be more susceptible to certain influences. Emotions are an important variable too. Scared and frightened people can be more susceptible in ways calm and composed people may not. Frustration and annoyed can be variables.

So frustrations that are the results of misunderstandings on Internet Forums can also and often are the result of behaviour from individuals that may not be ideal or optimal, or what that individual considers their normal or actual selves. You can see this in Forums when people acknowledge they may have been hostile or unfair and try to remedy this. Often such people correct, and their hostility or anger or insults were out of character... but maybe someone said something snarky, or passive aggressive, or invalidated or mocked their person or character, or made them feel negative in a way they couldn't process if they had time and energy, and so that frustration and turmoil, even if not overwhelming or that serious, and a lot of subconscious factors all result in behaviour that may not be normal or how they wish to be. Its very human. 

Now some people can desire to agitate or push the buttons of others, or seek conflict and so on, but often that is still governed by the same factors, just more complicated and dealing with larger time frames of building up internal turmoil and anguish and looking for ways to expel it, validate ones self, find comfort or find commiserations or an identity, even if that identity is frowned upon. 

 

11 hours ago, Felsagger said:

DE constructed a model that they saw in other franchises. Call of Duty is a prime example of short small updates using refurbished assets. Infinity Ward was spotted on such move. Other companies makes updates of their ideas and sell them as whole games. In the end game progress is slow but should have an apparel that is moving fast. Old code is refurbished and used. If we apply that logic then Horizon Zero Dawn and Horizon Zero Forbidden west are almost the same product with a reuse of assets in a clever way. Of course some maps are different but the assets are repeated and improved. Respawn is an example of this too but they know how to pull their own weight with the newer Jedi game release. These are updates, not fully drastically new games in concept. DE understood this to perfection and went on the GAAS F2p road. They simply said "Why do Warfrane 1, 2, 3" when we can stick with the model of selling primes and platinum. Of course it was a novel idea when it started but then such approach created other issues and crutches. Having a good formula could make developers rest in their laurels. 

DE had and have a good market model. The question is this: How this market model controls their creative process and hold back the potential of the game or if it is the other way around? 

 

I am not sure I agree entirely. Though I acknowledge I don't know a whole lot about Call of Duty model around the time Warframe was launched. Could you explain what you mean in more depth with specific examples? 

The reason I am a bit skeptical of your point is because to my perceptions, well, there are so many types of games and models, and ways to spin new ideas based on old ones, and then trying to grow and find ways to sustain and grow in a market which, has a lot going on anyway, but at the same time, has plenty more room to grow. It can be hard to see where certain Developers may also be allowed to take risks and take initiative and break relatively new ground, and sometimes factors like budget are a factor too. Like maybe not being the most impressive developer around overall, but being able to impress with less. From my limited understanding, a lot of industry insiders I have followed and noted over there years, have tended to be quite high on DE as a developer for various reasons. There is also the connection and relationships between Developers and Publishers which is important and easy to overlook. 

As for your last question here, its a bit abstract in my eyes. What are you suggesting as an alternative and what is your risk assessment of that alternative? 

 

11 hours ago, Felsagger said:

But I can't discourage other people from playing Warframe. I don't have a say on that and I do not intend on such thing because in the end is pointless.

 

I think its more accurate to say, that people can't discourage others unintentionally, in a way that they should generally worry too much about. Like people shouldn't concern themselves too much with an infinite possibilities that their most minute, and unintended actions have on the influences of others. No one should have to live with such a heavy expectation, and its just not always realistic. Peoples actions eve unintended have plenty of consequences and influence on other people indirectly though. 

People even intuitively know this for certain courses of actions. For example, coffee can influence you in small ways yes? Except you do not always constantly drink coffee, which can affect how you might interact with someone. That interaction may go well or negatively, and if that person is important in your life, the consequences could be different. Not just for you, but for them as well, and hence your actions or lack of actions can have unintentional consequences. Again... which I am not saying you should bare the brunt of responsibility. Often such things are too complex to try and anticipate, often we just have to try and do our best at any given time, and hope that more people value intentions. 

 

12 hours ago, Felsagger said:

I bring them here for the benefit of people who doesn't know them. Playing a variety of game makes player appreciate the difference and similarities of what Warframe offers.

 

Do you think your approach and methodology could be improved a bit then? Also when you say for the benefit of other people who do not know them? What does that entail exactly? Like raise awareness or recommend? So in this regard you do believe you can influence people or at least be a source of influence? You just don't believe you can do this in a negative light? For example discouraging someone to play the games you mention? 

Which I think is why some other users have accused you of "concern trolling" before, because sometimes it seems like you are using other games as ammunition for personal grievances directed at DE. I don't think you are a troll, but if you were a troll, it would be a good strategy, and not an uncommon one, diehard Warframe players who hate Destiny and die hard Destiny players who hate Warframe and many other rivalries between different media have die hard fans who employ such techniques. Since being so singularly positive towards certain media, and comparing it favourably to the targeted media, comes with the plausible deniability of being a troll or instigator. You aren't being unnecessarily negative... you are being positive... its not your fault if "insert media here* can't live up to standards that other games live up to, or how they actually respect their fans and listen to them and innovate and lead the industry... Or "I just want Warframe to be better... for the players.. is that so wrong?"

Now in our conversation, I have seen you praise and highlight some of Warframes strengths, plus I never thought you were a troll to begin with. I actually think you make decent points here and there, but I also understand and see why a lot of people are skeptical of you, and block you, which again, unfortunate. 

This is also why I mentioned how some of the games you talk about more positively, have also been treated this way in the past, by people that talk about them the same way you talk about Warframe. Then its just a matter of people interpreting sincerity or not. Its not like Dark Souls players or God of War players are all against sincere constructive criticism, or calls for improvement, but sometimes not all people seem sincere "Dark Souls would be better if they had guns and was first person perspective, they need to improve their voice acting. The mouths don't even move lul" I like a variety of games too, and it can be sad when people get so hostile as to use underhanded techniques and strategies to try attack other fandoms. I touch on this a bit with my Mesa, Wisp and Saryn example. 

I know some people dislike any sort of criticism, but I think mostly people are fine, if it seems sincere, genuine and it doesn't try to overstep boundaries. Like implying that its more important than others experiences or thoughts. I know this from first hand experience, whenever I criticise things, people rarely take issue with it, unless I am being sarcastic and they don't pick up on sarcasm. Sometimes though, its actually less about what you say, and more about how you say it. 

 

12 hours ago, Felsagger said:

But those other factors are not of our interest. We focus on quality of the game and the delivery of the promise. 

We are the customer who wants a better product out of what we have now. We can't do much with those other factors. That is DE's job. We can't do their job. That's why they are developers. Those are their variables. 

 

Whether one wants to acknowledge them or not, they influence and effect the end result. Not being aware or at least acknowledging that lack of awareness and or the impact they can have, is to ignore important context and this can lead to issues. Like again, unrealistic expectations. Covid can impact the games industry, broadly and in more specific ways. The current Ukraine and Russia war affects some developers more than others, games industry strikes, acquisitions, and a lot more. Quality isn't always cheap, easy or simple. Each factor I mentioned, has its own lists of variables. 

I accidentally deleted a paragraph I wrote here, so my apologies if the rest seems disjointed. To paraphrase, I talk address the idea that as consumers we don't need to be industry analysis experts in order to voice opinions, views and preferences. We don't, but having relatively informed opinions, understandings and awareness is a positive, and lack of understanding or at least lack of awareness in acknowledging understanding of potential factors can be a negative. 

Since better understanding and awareness of such factors can help shape and mould the calls for quality and getting a better product, but also be aware of how other customers view such products and quality. Since you acknowledge that not all customers views are the same yes? So knowing and understanding when to apply discretion over ideas like how a product may change or not change, or change towards certain trends, is assisted by the additional context I speak of. We can also use that to identify where else changes may need to occur in order to get a "better product" and a "higher quality product". 

Lack of can lead to overlooking important variables that contribute to quality and product. That was the rougher longer version of what I wrote. 

For example, I have noticed here and there that you mentioned Duviri should take more time no? Please correct me if I am mistaking you for another user. Personally? I am against crunch time in the video game industry. I think games industry needs better and higher standards for its workers, even if that means they work slower and less (though Its a complicated topic, I actually think there are greed and corruption issues that should be addressed as well, and that a lot of workers time and efforts are mismanaged, so arguably... giving them more time, and better mental health management, should actually lead to greater productivity and consumers shouldn't notice that much. We may even actually get higher quality products with less crunch/no crunch. Just other issues need to be addressed. Again, complicated, but my main point here, is I don't disagree with what I think is the intent behind your belief Duviri could be delayed more. 

I hope this paragraph makes sense, I had to rewrite some of it from memory. 

 

13 hours ago, Felsagger said:

It is true. I can't do anything about it. 

 

Can you choose to drink coffee? 

 

13 hours ago, Felsagger said:

That's a matter of presentation. This is my style of how I cut the wood. I state things how I see them. I can't sugarcoat things. You have the choice to ignore what I say or discuss it if you agree or disagree.

 

Are you capable on introspection? Have you ever thought to yourself and changed your mind on a matter? 

 

13 hours ago, Felsagger said:

When I talk about competition, I am talking about game quality, level of polish and robustness of the experience. 

 

I generally assume thats how you define it when you have applied it. My usage of the word in the particular paragraph you addressed, its definition was more along the lines of a competition between competing sports teams or the like, where there must be winners and losers. 

 

13 hours ago, Felsagger said:

But is accurate enough for the intent that I am communicating

Yes, budget, experience, resources, availability of information, use of technology of information and communication among many other things are relevant factors for game design. We are talking about results that already exists in the market. We compare them to things that are properly working. If we go down this road we will converge on strict game design. That's another subject. 

If Warframe wants to stay competitive at least must show improvement on the graphic department, A.I., boss fights, quality of life in general. At least one of these categories suffice. Consistency is preferable if DE focuses on quality of life in general. There are many things that requires QoL. All the games that I mentioned in this thread addresses quality of life in general. 

 

I think many people will disagree, because if you can use knowledge and understanding to show a decent comprehension or accurate understanding for the subjects at hand, then your credibility or persuasiveness in making claims relevant to those subjects will be seen as less than the required amount for such claims to have legitimacy. 

Talking about such factors in ways that people find reasonable helps give you a platform to make further assessments seem 1. Sincere. 2. Accurate or legit. 

At the moment you sort of just bring up other games, seemingly based on personal preference, talk about better quality in the abstract and as if there aren't a potential host of consumers and consumers that may heavily disagree with you, then drop huge lines like "if Warframe wants to stay competitive" without really establishing parameters of what competitive is or means in this context, especially without factoring the other factors and variables we talk about. Like different models, current age, DE's projections for success or stability, and so on. This is why, using those factors and if you established what you mean by stay competitive in more tangible, historic, observable, quantifiable ways, you at least give context to your claims and assertions. Except that may require knowledge and understanding you might not hold. I personally don't have that level of knowledge, hence I personally would avoid making huge claims about what DE needs to do to stay competitive. Since I am transparent about that, people might say... well at least he knows his limitations. 

That being said there are other fields I know a lot about and could give ample context over. 

 

13 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Could be right, could be wrong.

 

Acknowledged and noted. 

 

13 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Why be conformist with less when you can have more?

Why be conformist with bread crumbs when you can have a lobster for your meal? 

There is nothing wrong with bread crumbs if they are many. I simply place the plates. People may throw them or eat from them. 

 

Depends on the situation and the type of conformity. Subconscious or conscious? Motivated by personal greed or empathy? Unrealistic expectation of more than actually is? Flawed perception that there is less when there is more? Preference. Breadcrumbs with chicken can be much nicer to many that stale lobster minced, ground and served in a can. Some situations there is no choice or conformity. Its limited, in some situations both are options and both can be eaten. 

Regardless it doesn't address the point I made. 

 

13 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Oh. Making fun of people who is mentally discapacitated or have any form of impairment is simply cruelty. Ableism is a serious offense. I can't agree with such practice. 

You did the right thing there. 

 

The context was more nuance in the example I mentioned. Slightly motivated by a past interaction they both had, but yes, regardless, I thought it was better to make an inquiry and point out what I perceived as unfairness and inflammatory.  Both users are in my opinion, great people who contribute a lot to the forums regardless and that situation was resolved fairly, because of their own actions. I just had a small role. Thanks. 

The reason I brought this up is because you often talk about first impression, and just saying what you think, about what you can't do, about maybe being right or wrong... So I presented a situation to you, of someone who likely just went off their first impression, they just said what they though, and in this instance.. they were wrong. Or at least, they reflected, thought about the situation, and realised they were in the wrong. Then tried to rectify and improve the situation. 

Are you saying you are incapable of doing the same? Changing your mind? Acknowledging your first impression may be wrong and then your impression changing and then your sentiments and views as written or expressed following this change? 

 

13 hours ago, Felsagger said:

This is I think the most important part of your post. The conception of neutrality is extremely hard to explain and carry out. Here we have a big challenge for all of us. The neutral poster is the perfect poster in my opinion. It's a mindset I would like to have but takes a lot of effort for a clean execution. 

Neutrality is the key for good communication, delivery of ideas and removal of all the ingredients that causes confusion and misunderstanding. I am aggressive plugging good games to produce a discussion but that may fall in deaf ears. However a good simple comment could do more impact than lots of videos and well written paragraphs. The neutral response requires a lot of witts, intelligence, creativity and honesty. That is hard to achieve on formal arguments. 

 

Interesting and noted. I agree its a challenge as well. Especially considered neutrality. Sometimes people can stumble upon neutrality, through apathy, but that can sometimes be simpler and easier. There is a fun term I fond of, "Passionately Dispassionate" or the idea of not being sway by strong emotions because there is great value in rationality and impartiality in certain aspects of life. Plus detachment of ego, when again, contextually relevant. Maybe you are aware of the term too. 

I think so too, regarding simple comments. Unfortunately sometimes the context isn't always right for simple poignant lines. There needs to be groundwork and set up and well, I don't have to explain that much given what you told me about your experiences with science. Sometimes there needs to be a lot of set up. 

I enjoyed this. Thank you. My next reply might be much shorter, just because I will be busy and then Duviri will be released, but also because I think I covered a lot, but I will make time to reply if you do reply. Cheers. 

 

 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

58 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

That is a rather nice and good way of looking at things Fuzzled

But I guess it does boil down to how the person foresees what a user is saying, some folks can interpret all kinds of ways and that's perfectly fine as we're all human at the end of the day and hell even I am getting a bit puzzled (No pun intended lol) about said, user and while I do agree with some of his statements, it feels like the user is trying to balance both sides, but it's hard to see it that way. (Tho going so far as to be off-topic to talk about another game? kinda weird..)

Me, I have the tendency to have very harsh critiques and rather brutal opinions and other users have pointed out that it is like Doom and Gloom and yes, I will admit that it does look like that, I do agree with you, I don't think that User is trying to be said that way, but it's very hard to tell and I kinda hope that it's not the same for me, but if it is, I really can't do anything about it, as it's up to the person to interpret it. Hell in the past I've had a lot of satire posts that have also come across that way as well.

Outside of this btw, I love your Profile name  

 

Thanks, though I confess its partially self serving.

I am fine with conflict, but I am kind of old too. The forums seem a bit nicer and more fun when I see people having heated disagreements but also laughing with each other and agreeing to disagree and then finding common ground on a different topic. Also yes I agree with you, there are some users I don't get a good grasp of, and I swear there have to be a few Alts around, because some times a user will just come in with some suspiciously specific criticisms that seem word for word matches for some other user a few days prior. Some users also seem in bad faith/bad actors. I think they are a small minority though. I think misunderstandings can be more common than people believe, just because of the nature of international forums. 

Personally I am probably too flowery with my words and language and trying to avoid insulting anyone. Its mostly just life experiences, I have had to be the person who stayed consistently neutral and encouraging of others to express themselves and to try work around insecurities  or encourage communication if they were distressed. So I kind of default to that mode, even though I am aware it can be potentially annoying. 

I think your content of posts comes across well and generally interpreted well, though I also may not be the best judge either. Sometimes I experience Poe's Law, where something I thought I said, just had to be sarcasm, yet someone took it as sincere and I had to try and clarify. 

Thank you. I like your profile name too, not only does it remind me of one of my favourite X-Men characters, (probably unintentional), it also sounds like a maths pun. 

[SneakyErvin]

16 hours ago, Felsagger said:

The LEVEL of exposition in Warframe opens a pandora box because people sees props, tilesets, 3D modeling, animation sets for more time than any of the games I mentioned here. The level of exposition makes the player be more critical than the player you see in Shadows of the Colossus or ICO. In other words, the world matters a lot, the details mattes a lot and the level of upgrade and renewal matters a lot. 

That isnt one bit true. We play the game (or these types of games) for those extended hours to farm and chase loot. We do this on the same tiles over and over in the most efficient way we can figure out, which in the end leaves little room to worry/care about if the graphics are top notch or not.

There was this other game I played that had a full overhaul of the old areas, at the same time, in order for veterans to actually "stop and smell the roses" they reworked the availability of certain movement skills in the game i.e dashes. Prior to this the dashes would cost "mana", after the change they were charge based with cooldowns. What did us players do? We tried to find the best way to improve movement to the fullest so we could get back to farming at the pace we did, caring little for how the updated zones looked. WoW also kinda ended up being treated the same after the Cataclysm expansion that increased the graphics immensly, I dont think I stopped once to actually look at things, since I had already been there and done that for a thousand times or more and all I actually wanted was to progress at an efficient rate.

[Circle_of_Psi]

3 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Thanks, though I confess its partially self serving.

I am fine with conflict, but I am kind of old too. The forums seem a bit nicer and more fun when I see people having heated disagreements but also laughing with each other and agreeing to disagree and then finding common ground on a different topic. Also yes I agree with you, there are some users I don't get a good grasp of, and I swear there have to be a few Alts around, because some times a user will just come in with some suspiciously specific criticisms that seem word for word matches for some other user a few days prior. Some users also seem in bad faith/bad actors. I think they are a small minority though. I think misunderstandings can be more common than people believe, just because of the nature of international forums. 

Yeah, if I told you my age, a ton of people will refuse to believe me xD but yes, the forums here are a bit nicer and more fun than the others I came across as of late in my gaming history and it's always good to see people agreeing to disagree and then finding common ground or not, all part of human life. (Kinda wish we all got along, but that's wishful thinking)

A few users I have noticed may have alts or just come in way too sharply and due to the international translations can get stuck, hell even I may come across as in bad faith but it's not intentional, considering that the forums are supposed to be open for everyone, it's a bit of a rough spot if you really want to be intentional, it's why I stick to DMs for the heated talk, as that is between you and whoever speaks to you.

3 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Personally I am probably too flowery with my words and language and trying to avoid insulting anyone. Its mostly just life experiences, I have had to be the person who stayed consistently neutral and encouraging of others to express themselves and to try work around insecurities  or encourage communication if they were distressed. So I kind of default to that mode, even though I am aware it can be potentially annoying.

Eh, I'd not sell yourself out like that, we all have been raised in all kinds of ways and everyone experiences life in their own way, I'll gladly accept any person who is "Flowery" but also enjoy a person who can be strict and know how to put a foot down, in need. I admit I envy you for being the person to do such a thing without losing your mind and sure it may come across as potentially annoying for some, but it's not like you are super flowery, where you think the world is all pink and rainbows xD

3 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

I think your content of posts comes across well and generally interpreted well, though I also may not be the best judge either. Sometimes I experience Poe's Law, where something I thought I said, just had to be sarcasm, yet someone took it as sincere and I had to try and clarify. 

I'm glad you think that way and I do try to make my posts like that, yes there are a few examples way in the past, that I am not proud of, but we all have them moments, but again, I can be highly critical and judge as honest as I can, part of who I am and it will come across as "Death and Gloom" to some, to others maybe not, what being human is all about, you never know who or what you'll meet.

3 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Thank you. I like your profile name too, not only does it remind me of one of my favourite X-Men characters, (probably unintentional), it also sounds like a maths pun. 

  Hah, thank you and fun fact, my name is actually a nod towards XCOM 2, The Templars:  "Raise a Templar to maximum Focus level, spend it all, and reach the max again in a single mission"

I am a huge sucker for Psioinc stuff in Games or Movies, whether it be Mind Controlling to lifting things with your mind and I am a massive fan of Technology as well, I crave all the Futuristic looking tech, like say Plasma Weapons or something like that xD.

Why I am kinda looking forward to this new update, it shies away from all the boring "Press 4 to win" or "AFK with Wukong"  and I love Rouge-Like Games, but is limited in power, so I am not just steamrolling everything, this is what the Drifter offers me, a way to be strong but clearly not OP and dying is a punishment not an "Oh, I can just rez and start again"

Why I kinda hope that Drifter's Powers and Meele stuff are brought to the natural game, cuz as crazy as I might sound, I'll love to only be able to use my Drifter without all the Void Powers, sure yes, the Void powers you get are super limited by what you are given, but due to they give Warframes way too OP stuff (Like Zenrik), I see no point playing my Drifter. 

I want to be able to spawn in my Drifter during a reg mission and have the reverted version of Transference where I can use my frame for the "Oh Hek" moments  

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

That isnt one bit true.

People are familiarized with the tileset more than the people who play Horizon Forbidden West and Burning Shores. 

Retentive memory happens more frequently since Warframe is a game where the player visits the same spot over and over again. 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

We play the game (or these types of games) for those extended hours to farm and chase loot. We do this on the same tiles over and over in the most efficient way we can figure out, which in the end leaves little room to worry/care about if the graphics are top notch or not.

You contradict yourself here or simply omitted the concept "level of exposition"

Level of exposition means, time spent on the game and in a particula tileset repeating tasks 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

There was this other game I played that had a full overhaul of the old areas, at the same time, in order for veterans to actually "stop and smell the roses" they reworked the availability of certain movement skills in the game i.e dashes. Prior to this the dashes would cost "mana", after the change they were charge based with cooldowns. What did us players do? We tried to find the best way to improve movement to the fullest so we could get back to farming at the pace we did, caring little for how the updated zones looked. WoW also kinda ended up being treated the same after the Cataclysm expansion that increased the graphics immensly, I dont think I stopped once to actually look at things, since I had already been there and done that for a thousand times or more and all I actually wanted was to progress at an efficient rate.

This is off topic with the subject you quoted. 

Level of exposition makes the player be more aware of how the game operates. DE gives zero updates to old tilesets except when such tilesets increases in activity. One of them was them was Draco. Tilesets in the game are old, many are not maintained and others feels the same where the player can't even distinguish variations of of the tilesets. More specific, the player can't distinguish places since many of these tilesets are similar in apparel in a particular planet where a set of tilesets are defined. 

 

[Felsagger]

4 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Even looking at the most recent activity like this thread will give you a glimpse of what kind of user you're facing, no need to do a full background check like you and your Unreal Engine 5

Sorry but does that bothers you this much? Could you please stop policing people here for their points of views.  

It's obvious that I talk about the engine that I use. And yes I will continue harping on the average graphics of the game warframe and the alternative of Unreal engine 5. I know that it will not happen anytime soon but I'll continue showing examples pertinent to the conversation. 

Right now there is no need for it. 

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

You contradict yourself here or simply omitted the concept "level of exposition"

Nope, read what I wrote in context to what you said as a whole instead of splitting things up into completely unrelated quotes.

You claimed in your post that due to us visiting tiles over and over, the game needs to present them in a specific way visually. Which is wrong, what the (a) game needs when people play it repetatively is content that is playable in a repetative manner, at which point keeping graphics up to date, or improving them matters little, since we come back for the gameplay and not how it visually looks. The visuals are only a bonus when/if they get improved.

And the part I included about the other game aswell as WoW is not off topic to what I quoted, since it is practially saying the exact opposite of what you claim. They are two examples of how players in repetative games tend to care about graphical overhauls. So while overhauls and improvements are nice, they are only a bonus when they happen in these types of games.

So the things you claim "matters alot" are simply not true.

[Teridax68]

Welp, turns out gameplay was exactly as OP predicted. Duviri is practically an entirely new game wearing Warframe's skin, complete with a pseudo-FromSoft combat system that plays terribly with the game's wooden animations and input lag. To top it all off, it all takes place in a literal content island. I'm not sure how much time I really want to commit to this update after the quest.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Nope, read what I wrote in context to what you said as a whole instead of splitting things up into completely unrelated quotes.

You claimed in your post that due to us visiting tiles over and over, the game needs to present them in a specific way visually. Which is wrong, what the (a) game needs when people play it repetatively is content that is playable in a repetative manner, at which point keeping graphics up to date, or improving them matters little, since we come back for the gameplay and not how it visually looks. The visuals are only a bonus when/if they get improved.

And the part I included about the other game aswell as WoW is not off topic to what I quoted, since it is practially saying the exact opposite of what you claim. They are two examples of how players in repetative games tend to care about graphical overhauls. So while overhauls and improvements are nice, they are only a bonus when they happen in these types of games.

So the things you claim "matters alot" are simply not true.

You are not getting the point. 

 

The game needs updates in these old tilesets. They suck. These old maps are simply ugly and outdated. It's pretty simple to get, Ervin. 

Just now, Teridax68 said:

Welp, turns out gameplay was exactly as OP predicted. Duviri is practically an entirely new game wearing Warframe's skin, complete with a pseudo-FromSoft combat system that plays terribly with the game's wooden animations and input lag. To top it all off, it all takes place in a literal content island. I'm not sure how much time I really want to commit to this update after the quest.

Correct Teridax. 

That is entirely correct. I downloaded the updated and played it. This is just Elden Ring lite. It's an entire new game, to boot it has wooden animation and input lag. 

[cute_moth.npc]

Spoil it for me before I get home from work: is it as bad as it looked or did they improve it?

[Felsagger]

19 minutes ago, cute_moth.npc said:

Spoil it for me before I get home from work: is it as bad as it looked or did they improve it?

Really bad. 

I was scared of this. I saw it coming a mile away in this thread. Many fans attacked me, now is my turn. "I TOLD YOU SO". 

 

Edit: 

It's playable: But DE have a LONG road ahead of them.....really long. 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

I tried this update, and Hahhha this is so Elden Ring lite and it’s not even funny. I want to play Warframe! Not Elden Ring lite. This is Elden Ring lite on mobile hahhhhah. I just can’t. DE you guys tried.

 

 
Id rather play Elden Ring not the mobile lite version. Where did WARFRAME go? 
 

[Felsagger]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

I tried this update, and Hahhha this is so Elden Ring lite and it’s not even funny. I want to play Warframe! Not Elden Ring lite. This is Elden Ring lite on mobile hahhhhah. I just can’t. DE you guys tried.

 

 
Id rather play Elden Ring not the mobile lite version. Where did WARFRAME go? 
 

We are back to page one of this thread. 

 

LITERALLY. 

[minidelight]

1 hour ago, cute_moth.npc said:

Spoil it for me before I get home from work: is it as bad as it looked or did they improve it?

Its bad , really bad.  its worse than Railjack update =/.

 

[Felsagger]

23 minutes ago, minidelight said:

Its bad , really bad.  its worse than Railjack update =/.

 

Duviri Launch: 

Sinopsis. 

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, Felsagger said:

The game needs updates in these old tilesets. They suck. These old maps are simply ugly and outdated. It's pretty simple to get, Ervin. 

They do, but not for the overdramatic reasons you claim. They need updates because they are very old, nothing more than that. We still play them all the same the way they look if we need things there.

[Felsagger]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

They do, but not for the overdramatic reasons you claim.

I wish my reasons where overdramatic. 

You can't get the warframe you want in the weekly selection of four warframes. That is creating a lot of frustrations on the boards. Even Voltage is talking about it. 

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

They need updates because they are very old, nothing more than that. We still play them all the same the way they look if we need things there.

True. 

[SneakyErvin]

10 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

I wish my reasons where overdramatic. 

You can't get the warframe you want in the weekly selection of four warframes. That is creating a lot of frustrations on the boards. Even Voltage is talking about it. 

True. 

WTF does that have to do with tile overhauls?

[Felsagger]

14 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

WTF does that have to do with tile overhauls?

Nothing. 

I agreed on the second part of your comment. Sorry if that caused confusion. 

[Julian083]

Have to come back after the flop.

[Felsagger]

11 minutes ago, Julian083 said:

Have to come back after the flop.

DO NOT.....

NECROPOST.....

Easy. 

We have like five updates for Duviri. Many of the issues here are being sorted out or in vias for a fair solution. 

 

[Julian083]

2 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

DO NOT.....

NECROPOST.....

Easy. 

We have like five updates for Duviri. Many of the issues here are being sorted out or in vias for a fair solution. 

 

The bug is part of the problem. The other part of the problem is duviri is very tormenting to play.

The undercroft session forced you to play some mission type that is time consuming, unrewarding and boring. Also the complete different combat experience is hard to adapt and endure when the drifter melee system is clunky.

Uranus archwing spy and on-foot mission in railjack feels like a masterpiece compared to undercroft session in duviri,

I did like the circuit and decree system. It does add some randomness and good buffs to your gameplay. However it also shows how many bad weapons are in the game. I would never bring stug or aklato to the game unless I am forced to. And I was forced to used the bad weapons because the game literally leave them as the only option.

[(XBOX)Mineslayer2010]

why is no one letting this thread die out peacefully? I don't think we need another 30 page's of debating if it is Warframe content or not. Flaming DE is not the way to go.