DE I know you Improved Volt a lot recently, but can I suggest a new passive?

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

1# Passive: Moving generates a static discharge that increases energy regeneration by +1.3/s, stacks up to 3x with each 10 meters travelled and resets on ability cast.

that's it, Volt is the perfect new player Warframe, and also the perfect Experienced player Warframe, and the idea is to find a Passive that fits both players!

For new players, energy is not often found everytime, and they don't have access to all the cool mods yet, so having a passive energy regeneration is great to help them out cast more abilities, and also make them get used to running and moving all the time to get accustomed to Warframe's typical fast paced gameplay

for Old players, it's not as pointless as his old passive, so they'll always make use of it, and it allows these players that rely heavily on Zenurik focus school to try new schools, or those who can't live without energize to try different arcanes, Never say no to more energy overall, and it's universally a useful stat to have.

[NecroPed]

I like this idea. +1

[Kainosh]

BS.

Newer players usually lack Weapon Damage.   Volt's passive greatly helps to push through certain bosses and enemies.

Getting Transistor Shield is not that difficult, and that juicy + 1000 damage on almost every shot is a huge help early on.   And it even works on melee.

 

It is also much more useful in Duviri SP.   There are energy saving decrees (that break efficiency cap to the point when Wisp's 4 didnt cost me anything)  but no decree buffs base weapon damage.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

Volt's passive has a great concept. Moving to charge up damage that discharges on your next attack? Makes sense for an electrical character, and fits well in a game built around a lot of movement. This seems like a numbers issue, so why not just keep Volt's passive conceptually the same while tweaking the numbers and damage calculations?

 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

3 hours ago, Kainosh said:

BS.

Newer players usually lack Weapon Damage.   Volt's passive greatly helps to push through certain bosses and enemies.

Getting Transistor Shield is not that difficult, and that juicy + 1000 damage on almost every shot is a huge help early on.   And it even works on melee.

 

It is also much more useful in Duviri SP.   There are energy saving decrees (that break efficiency cap to the point when Wisp's 4 didnt cost me anything)  but no decree buffs base weapon damage.

I don't know how different new player experience now compared to 7 years ago but when i first started I had a major problem with keeping up energy, and leveling syndicates took me a lot of time because it required prime blueprints that were vaulted.

I mean it's ok if you don't like it, but I don't really see how "juicy" that 1000 damage is, sure it adds to base damage, but is it realllly that good? what if you use a fully automatic weapon like Braton? it would be impossible to get that 1000 electric damage on each shot.

it also counts shadow hits, so if you waste a shot or swing melee you'd have to recharge it again

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Ampathetiic said:

Volt's passive has a great concept. Moving to charge up damage that discharges on your next attack? Makes sense for an electrical character, and fits well in a game built around a lot of movement. This seems like a numbers issue, so why not just keep Volt's passive conceptually the same while tweaking the numbers and damage calculations?

 

yes: 

Guarantee electric status effect on any hit regardless of status chance on equipped weapons.

with fully automatic weapons damage gradually decreases with each shot instead of expending completely on first shot. 

[Kainosh]

28 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

but is it realllly that good?

It is.   For example, Soma's base kinda low, and damage mods don't add much.   But TS adds 1000 Electric damage to your shots, that can be amped by Crits.   It also works with Status builds on other weapons and such. 

 Besides, low energy is not just Volt's issue.  Mag and Excal also lack energy (I started as Mag btw. Volt was a boss drop at that time).   I remember barely casting anything, mostly gunning stuff down.  And it wasnt bad.  Learned to aim and plan on how to use energy instead of spamming it everywhere.

Duviri, btw, has energy spawners here and there.  And its an "alternative start" so....

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

15 hours ago, Kainosh said:

It is.   For example, Soma's base kinda low, and damage mods don't add much.   But TS adds 1000 Electric damage to your shots, that can be amped by Crits.   It also works with Status builds on other weapons and such. 

 Besides, low energy is not just Volt's issue.  Mag and Excal also lack energy (I started as Mag btw. Volt was a boss drop at that time).   I remember barely casting anything, mostly gunning stuff down.  And it wasnt bad.  Learned to aim and plan on how to use energy instead of spamming it everywhere.

Duviri, btw, has energy spawners here and there.  And its an "alternative start" so....

I'm treating Duviri's undercroft as sort of "Danger room" or training room for new players...thus they won't have too much energy issues, especially with some Decrees.

but you're the first person i met that actually thinks the passive is "juicy". 

at least I'd suggest giving the passive a way to not completely expends on first shot on automatic weapons.

 

[Kainosh]

3 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

thinks the passive is "juicy". 

Passive is not.   But 1000 electric damage is.   It can potentially turn any weapon into a "1000 base damage monster".    Other damage passives, like Garuda's, for example, are % based.   This one is not.  It doesn't care if you have a bad weapon.  Thats why i like it.

There are issues with how it works, and i made a thread with a few suggestions.  You can read about it here if you wanna: 

 

 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

16 minutes ago, Kainosh said:

Passive is not.   But 1000 electric damage is.   It can potentially turn any weapon into a "1000 base damage monster".    Other damage passives, like Garuda's, for example, are % based.   This one is not.  It doesn't care if you have a bad weapon.  Thats why i like it.

There are issues with how it works, and i made a thread with a few suggestions.  You can read about it here if you wanna: 

 

 

I generally don't like to disregard people's opinion if they "have 0 posts" some people find the forums unbearable, and the dude had some valid points.

but I'm only agreeing on the idea to improve the passive for automatic and beam weapons.

If not, the passive is kinda pointless to me, and i'd much rather have passive energy regen than this

3 hours ago, Skysgh said:

账户无缘无故被封禁，希望加强你们自己的检测技术。 我确保百分百是没有开过外挂和任何辅助性的第三方工具，就你公司这等垃圾检测技术，实在有待提高。 如果不会做游戏，不会做检测系统，请尽快关闭此游戏通道，不要让大家玩。 三千多小时的游戏，检测都不检测到，张嘴就来我违反了账号，规则，真不知道你们是不是用猪脑子开发的软件，如果玩这游戏三千多小时了，还需要开挂或者辅助性软件，你们是否应该反思，你们的软件做的多拉胯。 检测不到开挂，就说你开挂了，直接封停账号，实在不理解你们长脑子是干什么用的，难道不用来思考么？ 第一次无缘无故封停账号十几天，这次又以开辅助软件进行封停，我三千多小时，啥都有，我还需要开挂？？？？？ 技术不行，就不要开公司了，真丢人。

Send a support ticket if you got banned and have trouble accessing your account, forums is not the place for that (and definitely not Warframe feedback section and not my post lol)

here's link 

https://digitalextremes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us

[Kainosh]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

I generally don't like to disregard people's opinion if they "have 0 posts" some people find the forums unbearable, and the dude had some valid points.

His only point was "Volt is fine".   If that point is Valid, then you also should delete your thread this instant.   Or am i not getting sumthin?

4 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

i'd much rather have passive energy regen than this

If anything, then i suggest a compromise:

Add old Passive effect to Transistor Shield augment (incoming damage converted to your bonus damage), and then give Volt whatever new Passive you want. 

That would be ok, since my TS build will not be butchered....And i don't use Volt's passive in any of my other builds.

[--Leyenda-yight6]

volt's passive is terrible, I never felt that it was useful, it seems good to me to change it for an energy regeneration passive or that is invulnerable to electrical damage. newbies already have a way to increase weapon damage, which is with the electric shield.

[ReverseKinetix]

On 2023-05-02 at 7:00 AM, Kainosh said:

BS.

Newer players usually lack Weapon Damage.   Volt's passive greatly helps to push through certain bosses and enemies.

Getting Transistor Shield is not that difficult, and that juicy + 1000 damage on almost every shot is a huge help early on.   And it even works on melee.

 

It is also much more useful in Duviri SP.   There are energy saving decrees (that break efficiency cap to the point when Wisp's 4 didnt cost me anything)  but no decree buffs base weapon damage.

New players 100% need energy more than weapon damage. If they were able to have energy to keep his three active, then that's free crit damage which is better than +1000 base damage that you need to actively not attack to build up for just one lousy shot. Also, you said they could get Transistor Shield, but if they knew about that augment, why not Shock Trooper instead which is like a thousand times better? Not to mention, if they know about augments and are using them to increase damage, then they probably know how to mod their weapons to the point that an extra conditional 1,000 is meaningless. Unless you want to use fishing spears on starchart for the memes, Volt's passive is pretty much worthless. Taken directly from the wiki:

Traveling along the ground between  Volt's attacks (by walking, running, or sliding) will build up static energy, adding bonus  Electricity damage toward Volt's next weapon attack or ability cast.

• For every 1 meter traveled, 10 points of  Electricity damage are added, accumulating to a maximum of 1000 bonus damage.
• Damage is not affected by Ability Strength.
• Static Discharge does not combine with single elements or elemental mods on weapons, the bonus  Electricity damage type remains separate.
• Is not affected by damage mods (e.g.  Serration) or elemental mods (e.g.  Stormbringer).
• Is affected by Critical Hits and the combo counter of Sniper Rifles.
• Even with Multishot only a single hit will gain the damage bonus.
• Does not affect Helminth injected abilities or  Shocking Speed sparks.

Tell me how exactly any of that makes it worth using? Also, if you're in SP Duviri and are relying on Volt's Passive of all things to kill stuff, you don't know what you're doing. That extra 1000 bonus damage that only hits once really putting work for on steel path? Get real. The passive is niche and functionally does nothing aside from making unmodded garbage situationally usable up to star chart sedna. You aren't doing anything with the passive as it is now, and saying that it's better for new players than getting extra energy is ignorance at best and a downright lie at worse.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

On 2023-05-02 at 5:18 AM, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

For new players, energy is not often found everytime

I am always glad to see this, because most people refuse to acknowledge that the base energy economy is trash.

And while he may have gotten improvements, Volt and even Gyre, that I love, have one gigantic hurdle to overcome:  Electric damage is cheeks.  You either have to have armor strip or a crap load of decrees in Duviri content for electricity damage to work well in high level content.  It just doesn't do enough.  Gyre is totally usable in SP, don't get me wrong, but she requires armor strip to work.  

Enemy armor and even shield scaling are the main reason so many damage types, and by that, warframes as well, fall off in higher level content.  That, and just outdated damage models.  Look at the damage on Volt's abilities.  Compare that to not even EHP, but just the HP of higher level enemies.  There's nothing to let any of it scale.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

On 2023-05-03 at 9:52 PM, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

volt's passive is terrible, I never felt that it was useful, it seems good to me to change it for an energy regeneration passive or that is invulnerable to electrical damage. newbies already have a way to increase weapon damage, which is with the electric shield.

 

2 hours ago, ReverseKinetix said:

~snip~

 

2 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

I am always glad to see this, because most people refuse to acknowledge that the base energy economy is trash.

And while he may have gotten improvements, Volt and even Gyre, that I love, have one gigantic hurdle to overcome:  Electric damage is cheeks.  You either have to have armor strip or a crap load of decrees in Duviri content for electricity damage to work well in high level content.  It just doesn't do enough.  Gyre is totally usable in SP, don't get me wrong, but she requires armor strip to work.  

Enemy armor and even shield scaling are the main reason so many damage types, and by that, warframes as well, fall off in higher level content.  That, and just outdated damage models.  Look at the damage on Volt's abilities.  Compare that to not even EHP, but just the HP of higher level enemies.  There's nothing to let any of it scale.

I'm glad you guys chimed in, it's kind of crazy how in this community you will always find people just disagreeing with you for very weird reasons.

he kept overpraising this passive like it's some sort of game ending thing, and my people pleaser personality almost believed it...but I was like "wht?" 

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

19 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

my people pleaser personality almost believed it...but I was like "wht?" 

I could never lol.  I could not care less what someone's opinion is, if it makes no sense.  If I'm wrong I'm wrong, and I'll take an L.  But someone needs to actually convince me with reason.  No one is going to tell me that 1,000 damage is good.  The Embolist got given an augment that gives it a chargeable but unmoddable alt fire that deals 30,000 damage.  4 zeros.  It sounds great, with all those zeros.  It does nothing against higher level enemies, and by the time you've charged it up on lower level enemies, everything is dead and it doesn't matter anymore, because the main attack is far better.  Which means you're giving up a mod slot for a joke, when that slot could go to increase your non-alt DPS.  If 30k damage isn't good, then an extra 1,000 electrical damage is a complete joke.  Your idea would be much better, because even with all the tools at our disposal, Volt is still very energy hungry.  Especially considering how hard he has to spam to get his abilities to kill anything at higher levels.
 

  

On 2023-05-02 at 7:49 AM, (XBOX)Ampathetiic said:

Volt's passive has a great concept. Moving to charge up damage that discharges on your next attack? Makes sense for an electrical character, and fits well in a game built around a lot of movement. This seems like a numbers issue, so why not just keep Volt's passive conceptually the same while tweaking the numbers and damage calculations?

 

Because like I pointed out with the above example, even 5 figures of damage can be deceptively bad.  It's the same reason Mesa's Ballistic battery sucks.  You do a bunch of work and you get one shot with a pittance of extra damage.  If volt maintained that 1k extra damage as long as he was moving/attacking/casting, and it was moddable, it would be viable.  But you could jack it up a whole bunch, and because it's 1 shot for weapons and the way it gets figured into ability damage calc, it would still be worthless since it's a lot of movement and not attacking during build up, just for a single hit.  You literally lose DPS because you can't attack or you lose the whole charge.  If you had been attacking the whole time, it would have resulted in more damage than you gained from running in a circle waiting to build charge for a single hit/cast.  The number you'd have to crank it up to in order for that waiting to be worth it would be absurd.

[Reitrix]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

I am always glad to see this, because most people refuse to acknowledge that the base energy economy is trash.

I have on multiple occasions suggested tweaking Energy in general so that the first ability on any given Frame generates some Energy to fuel the other abilities, with Orbs being supplemental. 

DE certainly seems to be giving new frames recently ways to forcibly generate Energy (Gyre, Styanax, Voruna and Citrine all have secondary effects to one of their abilities that creates Energy for the frame). While some older frames can self generate, its a rarity compared to how many cannot. 

I just want to see that extended to all Frames so we're not dependent wholly upon Energy Orbs (RNG) or difficult to obtain Arcanes like Energize. Even Zenurik is locked away for quite some time, and being forced to use a specific Focus School just to have your frame functional without relying on RNG just feels crap. 

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

1 minute ago, Reitrix said:

Even Zenurik is locked away for quite some time, and being forced to use a specific Focus School just to have your frame functional without relying on RNG just feels crap. 

A very long time ago I came to these forums as a new player, to make the case that the energy economy sucked.  And rather than look at the case from the perspective of a new player, they spoiled me on operators and told me just to use Zenurik and expensive arcanes that I didn't even know existed.  I didn't enjoy several of the frames that I had that I love now, simply because I never had the energy to use their abilities.  Now that I'm maxed out and covered in way to generate energy, I'm having a much better time.  But when the game throws me into a situation where I can't have most of those options and I'm stuck with base energy economy, it goes right back to me having a bad time.  Energy should just slowly regenerate over time, as a base, with nothing preventing that slow regen, and no "we gotta nerf everything to account for this guys."  Not even a lot.  It wouldn't mean too much at all to high level players covered in arcanes and shards and endless resources, but man would it help out new players.

[Kainosh]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

he kept overpraising this passive like it's some sort of game ending thing

Im not overpraising.   Dont say chainsaw is bad because you dont know how to turn it on.

And I don't say Energy regen is bad.   I just want to keep his old passive intact somwhere, ok?  Even if it goes to a TS mod.

3 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

No one is going to tell me that 1,000 damage is good. 

Nobody will tell you. You gotta try it properly, instead of refering to a completely different Embolist case.

Try Transistor Shield.    Do it with a Crit weapon.    You dont even need base damage mods.   Synapse's base 20 becomes 1020 for every shot landed at your shield.   Unmodded, it kills lvl 180 Heavy gunner really fast.   And if you add mods on top, that becomes a really angry "back-at-ya-beam".

 

 You gotta see that beauty.  Because what you guys are doing here is just....throwing a very interesting gem away like its trash. 

I love this mechanic of turning incoming damage into my own damage.   And even if you all call it sht, I will still try to save it.  

[Kainosh]

7 hours ago, ReverseKinetix said:

Also, you said they could get Transistor Shield, but if they knew about that augment, why not Shock Trooper instead which is like a thousand times better?

Shock trooper is not better.  Its % based, needing high base damage weapon.

Look at my old test screens (Unmodded Synapse....but it works with Soma and any other Crit weapon)

AI Disabled, No Passive bonus damage:

 

And this is + 1000 boosted damage output.  Its constant when under fire:

 

Difference grow larger with Crit Mult mods, rivens and all that.

 Shock Trooper is % based....and in this case it only adds 20 electric damage at 100 power str.    It also depends on power str.  So you will want to invest in it.  

Meanwhile, Passive only needs an Augment and maybe some Duration or Efficiency to cast Shield.  Crits are not necessary, but a good boon.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

1 hour ago, Kainosh said:

You gotta try it properly,

An other than you speaking from the wrong end of your body, what makes you think I haven't tried it properly?  Learn to do math, 1k damage that you have to wait for is a joke.  You're literally over here showing off 2k damage on a single hit, that you'll then have to charge back up by running around like it's worth posting a screen shot for.

[Kainosh]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

showing off 2k damage

Without any mods in the weapon.  Only using Transistor Shield for damage.  And it is done against lvl 185 heavy gunner with FULL armor....so yeah, thats somehting. 

I also tested it in SP, right after Shock Trooper (people complained that i ruin their elements with it)....so i switched and found that TS is better in many cases, including Orphix and Disruption Bombers.

2 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

have to charge back up by running around

With what OP suggests, you will also need to wait for energy to regenerate, and for it to even start regenerating you will need to run around first.

TS build that I use on the Screenshot doesn't need any running.  Every enemy bullet stopped by E-Shield grants 1000 damage.  With multiple enemies around, it becomes constant enough.   

And stop being rude....relax.     I do not know what experience you had with it.     On my side its purely positive.    Of course im gonna try to protect what i enjoy....You would do the same.  There is nothing wrong about it.  Sheesh.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

11 minutes ago, Kainosh said:

And stop being rude....relax. 

uuuh hello?

On 2023-05-02 at 2:00 PM, Kainosh said:

BS.

 

[Kainosh]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

uuuh hello?

Wait.... Orouk and Dugan are ONE person?   You got me confused now.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

1 hour ago, Kainosh said:

Wait.... Orouk and Dugan are ONE person?   You got me confused now.

do I have to be the same person to see double standards and not call people out on it?