Are Incarnons hurting the weapons they are applied to? (The Non-Incarnon Mode)

[0_The_F00l]

20 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Burston has innate punch through from the incarnon perk that doesnt eat the AoE, it also has 600 ammo and a fire rate of 20. And as far as I've been able to tell, each body directly hit by the traveling bullet will produce an explosion, similar to how Amprex/Knukor/Tcycron works with PT. The gun stacks heat and slash quickly with munitions slotted.

Braton has 200 ammo and a fire rate of 5.67 and cannot mod for PT unless DE have recently changed something with the interaction between explosions and modded PT. The difference for Braton is that it comes with innate slash on the direct hit and has a 3m AoE instead of 2m, and more forgiving fall off.

 

I am aware of the stats. you might also want to note that the damage per projectile has a factor of nearly 5x , Braton has higher damage per hit Burston has more hits per second.

What would you personally pick if you had to and why?

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I am aware of the stats. you might also want to note that the damage per projectile has a factor of nearly 5x , Braton has higher damage per hit Burston has more hits per second.

What would you personally pick if you had to and why?

Personally Burston without a doubt, It and Torid are my two go to primaries atm with Laetum as my secondary. The RoF along with not getting penalized for using PT just brings too much QoL for Burston over Braton. Braton for me is simply too slow.

[baked]

15 hours ago, Zahnny said:

The issue is more of "Why would you want to use this

To be fair, that was the issue with most of these weapons before they had an incarnon form, in that any job they did other weapons did better

[Azamagon]

@Zahnny I get your point, but I think it's only really a "problem" with the weapons which fundamentally change up the weapon too much. For example, I have no issues at all with Lato, Bronco, Boltor, Dual Toxocyst, all the melee (in fact, I find most of the melee ones could've added a few more special effects) and even the Braton, Paris, Kunai and Miter. The Incarnons there feel like the same weapon, just massively oomphed up.

But, I understand you with weapons like:

• Latron - From marksman rifle to... bouncy grenade launcher? I'd much prefer it getting ricochets a la Lato or a hitscan not-so-beefy wideshot a la Lex. Imo, the Latron's current Incarnon would've fit the Torid much better (along with leaving clouds on each bounce).
• Furis - From SMG to Klamora-prism? Huh? If the range was the same, I wouldn't mind, but it seems so massively different.
• Torid - From gas grenades to chain-AoE-beam? Again: HUH?
• Atomos - From chain-beam to grenade launcher? Ok?

HOWEVER - If you see these radically changing Incarnons rather as powerful attachments, it's not as bad. For example: I had the Incarnon Latron Prime against the Steel Path Orowyrm - which was infinitely better using the main gun with, due to the constantly moving Orowyrm and the non-hitscan Incarnon.

So, I just take them for what they are - attachment upgrades.

But I'm still a little bummed out about some of the underwhelming melee Incarnons though.

[0_The_F00l]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Braton for me is simply too slow.

And that is predominantly the difference noticeable from a playstyle perspective - of stats,that can be partially overcome with mods.

Functionally the two are pretty similar, with one clearly better than the other ,and that is what irks me.

P.S.

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

The RoF along with not getting penalized for using PT just brings too much QoL for Burston over Braton.

I checked in the Sim if i was remembering incorrectly , but the braton and burston both have the same PT and AoE interaction.

I got consistent explosions on enemies hit despite having punchthrough on both weapons.

 

 

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

It's already been said

that if you prefer the original weapon, you can always refrain from activating the Incarnon Switch

and just take the small stat buffs

I know I do this for some of them. Vasto for example; the Incarnon mode is so brief, I have more fun just leaving in Normal and avoiding the disruption of a switch animation and a funky burst fire. Just happy enough with the headshot reload QoL buff.

 

However, one way Incarnon Genesis Might still hurt your favorite weapons

is if it leads to hard Riven Disposition Nerfs.

Doesn't quite seem fair if you really only use yours without Incarnon mode, or even without an adapter at all; that your Rivens would get tanked.

Here's hoping that DE avoid's that situation, and perhaps treats Incarnon Genesis like a Different Weapon Variant, with a separate Disposition.

 

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I checked in the Sim if i was remembering incorrectly , but the braton and burston both have the same PT and AoE interaction.

I got consistent explosions on enemies hit despite having punchthrough on both weapons.

Did you get the PT function on the incarnon form though, or is it simply disabled as it is for some guns already with their alt fire? I havent tested Braton enough myself since like I said the speed just kills the gun for me anyways. 

[0_The_F00l]

23 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Did you get the PT function on the incarnon form though, or is it simply disabled as it is for some guns already with their alt fire? I havent tested Braton enough myself since like I said the speed just kills the gun for me anyways. 

I can punch 3 enemies in a line while using primed shred on the incarnon form for braton or using a frame with 450 Armor for the burston.

It works in both forms well enough.

It does not have a "visual" explosion on first hit , that may be why you think it doesn't work.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

Latron is a good example of why this works well as it is.

The Incarnon form shoots exploding bouncy balls of death, which is not only funny but also effective for handling groups of enemies. However, it being AoE based makes it lose the extra damage you get from hitting weakpoints and headshots. So, once you trim the herd of fodder enemies with Incarnon, you can switch to the normal form to take out the tough enemies (bosses, Eximi, etc) by focusing on their weakpoints. This usually charges your Incarnon again so you can switch to AoE.

In general, Incarnon allowed Latron to be the ideal primary weapon that can handle groups and single enemies as long as you freely switch it's forms based on the situation.

[eawesometurtl]

Personally, I never used the Miter and thought it was a contender for worst weapon in the game, so now I am definitely loving it a lot more.  Even the non-incarnon form is honestly good, 1-shotting high-level enemies - who knew?

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

Melee weapons still do melee things. Yes, incarnon melees can shoot projectiles, but now they are also high cc/status beasts with built-in super modes and easy combo building. 

They've probably become the best out of any traditional melee weapons outside of projectile spamming them.

[Zahnrad]

55 minutes ago, eawesometurtl said:

Personally, I never used the Miter and thought it was a contender for worst weapon in the game, so now I am definitely loving it a lot more.  Even the non-incarnon form is honestly good, 1-shotting high-level enemies - who knew?

Nah. Miter's been a decent pick before the Incarnon. It's not going to be competing much in sorties without a Riven but its augment makes it a very useful utility weapon. If you don't mind relying on a Secondary, Melee or Warframe for your damage output it's a decent choice if you hate Nullifiers. I've been running ESO to try and get the vandal parts and I would always take the Miter with me into it.

[VladYvhv]

Lex is a weapon I took through the star chart, up until Jupiter. Why till just then? Cause that's the point I got to when the eximus upgrade hit last year, and knocked a lot of these weapons down, and kicked sand in their faces. The weapons are suffering because DE made the baddies tankier. So, they need the incarnons to get back up to the levels they were prior. Lex Prime was my first prime weapon, also back before the eximus got turned into bullet sponges. I think with the incarnons, DE is at least fixing part of a problem that they created. These aren't harming the weapons. They're making them viable again. I'm sure we'd all love to see these things outright elevated back up to proper killing weapons even without the incarnon forms. But let's face it. If that were done, DE would then just turn around and upgrade the baddies some more so that these (and probably more) weapons would be under-powered again. I just hope that the ak/dual versions get to get incarnons in the future.

[PR1D3]

I feel the same way. To me at least, the Incarnon Transformations should be designed as 'special attacks'. They should be powerful but very limited in usage and the charging shouldn't be nowhere near as fast as it is. Out of the current Incarnons, the Kunai does this pretty well. It changes them to have the heat seeking, headshot mechanic with extra innate multishot. It's not crazy op broken but It's great when I need to delete a single target specifically. You have to use it with some finesse. I had used them on this week's Archon Hunt. I was able to comfortably deal with mobs with them but swapped to Incarnon to get burst damage here and there specifically on the Archon. But then you have other ones where the game goes, "Here's a fully automatic aoe weapon with heat procs and super generous magazine size. Spray and pray. Kill hundreds. Get one headshot in base form and get full charge again." Basically have an Incarnon transformation up time where you're in it 90% of the time. Some are more guilty than others mind you, but still. I find that kind of ridiculous.