things that need a rework badly

[Becson]

status effects: cold, toxin, impact, slash, piercing, like most of the interactions with certain kinds because some weapons are not good against grineer or corrupted, viral heat not the best combo

Frames:
- Inaros, dudes kit is so bad and every other frame does it better.
- Frost, Cold procs are totally and utterly unviable on him, give him some better abilities instead of bubble, slow ice spikes, fireball but 200% worse. his ult is ok, tho buff it.
- Equinox, so youre telling me theres no augment that causes enemies to explode causing slash to others? TRASH, why is that not an augment
- Ash, LITERALLY Stalker exists and is a better ash, really weak power scaling

Incarnon melee weapons: the melee incarnon are so pathetic to the other weapons its saddening so much potential tossed into a gutter
- dual ichor's "unique" thing is causing toxin clouds, but thats JUST GAS, like why???
- sibear, its bad, its really bad for a 30k cryotic dump you just deal cold AND LIKE I SAID COLDS BAD, it really needs a rework

proposal for cold: make a stack of 5 cold causing them to cold fully, the more cold stacks on an armored enemy causes a multiplier of true damage, such as impact on them. basically shattering weak candy glass if you can get more stacks

what im saying is, there are a lot of features in warframe that are NEEDING reworks or overhauls, while its appreciated for new content but things need changing!

[mariberry-hearn]

Reworking Ash just because he has a "variant" that's locked to only one gamemode and has zero flexibility in customization is a bit silly

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

3 hours ago, Becson said:

- dual ichor's "unique" thing is causing toxin clouds, but thats JUST GAS, like why???

No, it isn't? It's Toxin damage. It is how Gas used to work before the element rework as Gas currently does not ignore shields whereas the perk on Dual Ichors do. Could argue that Gas deals more damage because it doesn't require a kill, and triggers on application of the status versus only spawning a damaging field when you kill an enemy with Toxin damage while they suffer Toxin DoT. By the time you have two Toxin fields on deck, Gas probably has 20 plus after grouping up multiple enemies. 

Edited June 6, 2023 by (PSN)FunyFlyBoy

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 3 heures, Becson a dit :

status effects: cold, toxin, impact, slash, piercing, like most of the interactions with certain kinds because some weapons are not good against grineer or corrupted, viral heat not the best combo

I didn't get it : Slash, Cold, Toxin, Puncture and Ipact need a rework ? Slash is really good in my opinion. Impact is nice against Eximus (mercy kill), Toxin is nice against Corpus. Cold just get a little buff and works nice in my opinion, providing a more efficient CC even against OG enemies. Heat+Viral is my most used status combo : it's awesome. Puncture status needs some changes (even though Puncture damage is ok), but if you have a way to spread Pucture status around you (Rhino) it can work almost like a DR.

Every single status (and also damage types) don't need to be effective against Grineer : there are other factions in the game.

I'm just a bit curious and I need to ask : what do you think about Magnetic status effect ? You've made no mention to this and, in my opinion, it's the status effect that needs the most some attention.

[(PSN)EntityPendragon]

4 hours ago, Becson said:

status effects: cold, toxin, impact, slash, piercing, like most of the interactions with certain kinds because some weapons are not good against grineer or corrupted, viral heat not the best combo

Frames:
- Inaros, dudes kit is so bad and every other frame does it better.
- Frost, Cold procs are totally and utterly unviable on him, give him some better abilities instead of bubble, slow ice spikes, fireball but 200% worse. his ult is ok, tho buff it.
- Equinox, so youre telling me theres no augment that causes enemies to explode causing slash to others? TRASH, why is that not an augment
- Ash, LITERALLY Stalker exists and is a better ash, really weak power scaling

Incarnon melee weapons: the melee incarnon are so pathetic to the other weapons its saddening so much potential tossed into a gutter
- dual ichor's "unique" thing is causing toxin clouds, but thats JUST GAS, like why???
- sibear, its bad, its really bad for a 30k cryotic dump you just deal cold AND LIKE I SAID COLDS BAD, it really needs a rework

proposal for cold: make a stack of 5 cold causing them to cold fully, the more cold stacks on an armored enemy causes a multiplier of true damage, such as impact on them. basically shattering weak candy glass if you can get more stacks

what im saying is, there are a lot of features in warframe that are NEEDING reworks or overhauls, while its appreciated for new content but things need changing!

Cold is a party buff, it literally has no purpose other than to make things a little better, fluff on top not really a damage dealer. Toxin is literally Corpus denial on all levels and is actually quite a strong damage type in only that regard. Slash...oh man, Idk if you are new but slash is easily one of the strongest damage types especially when paired with viral. It is also our only true damage source besides finishers (Bleed procs). Impact makes parazon kills easy as pie (Though admittingly the weaker of the IPS types.) Puncture is fine, it doesn't need changes, even if it would be welcome you will almost never need it in SP (which is what I assume you are thinking around.)


Comparing Ash and Stalker doesn't matter since Stalker is exclusive to Duviri as of now. Ash is also really good, not everything needs scaling (especially since he is NOT a damage frame, he is an assassin. he already got invis and armor strip stars.)

 

Incarnon melees are bad, this I will agree on however Hate is pretty good for a incarnon melee. 

 

I suggest watching some guides. Slash bad? Ha, jokes.

[Becson]

9 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

I didn't get it : Slash, Cold, Toxin, Puncture and Ipact need a rework ? Slash is really good in my opinion. Impact is nice against Eximus (mercy kill), Toxin is nice against Corpus. Cold just get a little buff and works nice in my opinion, providing a more efficient CC even against OG enemies. Heat+Viral is my most used status combo : it's awesome. Puncture status needs some changes (even though Puncture damage is ok), but if you have a way to spread Pucture status around you (Rhino) it can work almost like a DR.

Every single status (and also damage types) don't need to be effective against Grineer : there are other factions in the game.

I'm just a bit curious and I need to ask : what do you think about Magnetic status effect ? You've made no mention to this and, in my opinion, it's the status effect that needs the most some attention.

magnetic is so weird to me, instead of having an unique interaction with armor like a bit of small homing domes on them it just weaker?

 

ok towards the other the issue is "everything i can do i can do better" where every status is outclassed by viral because it just does PURE damage, pure damage is in this realm of jack of all trades that just breaks the power scaling. 

 

as well as the fact that even if you use these other status effects youll still do better with viral, viral's whole thing is damage amplification but that still is affected by the base damage of a weapon so you can still just pure ram it through with viral heat ya know? 

 

cold, piercing, gas, blast, corrosive, and magnetic have weird quirks to them. cold just slows enemies but you can just outright stun them with shock, piercing reduces damage output but hard caps, gas is only strong against infested yet has this unique aoe to it that while decent still isnt gonna be the main damage, blast is just, knockdown but doesnt do anything fancy. oddly corrosive i feel should have a dot considering ACID but just strips armor, and nothing else?

 

toxins dot i feel is just on par with slash, but my issue is that its just so oddly simple

 

magnetic magnetic magnetic, why do you not have unique interactions with other stuff? straight up also totally erased by shield drone. there are other damages that just negate shield so why does it exist? besides to cause me to loose energy 

 

 

my entire thing is that if there are gonna be status effects in a game, they should be more than just number changers. radiation is a good example of a great status effect because it does more than just damage, it causes enemies to attack one another. it sees its job and does it well.

[Becson]

8 hours ago, (PSN)EntityPendragon said:

Cold is a party buff, it literally has no purpose other than to make things a little better, fluff on top not really a damage dealer. Toxin is literally Corpus denial on all levels and is actually quite a strong damage type in only that regard. Slash...oh man, Idk if you are new but slash is easily one of the strongest damage types especially when paired with viral. It is also our only true damage source besides finishers (Bleed procs). Impact makes parazon kills easy as pie (Though admittingly the weaker of the IPS types.) Puncture is fine, it doesn't need changes, even if it would be welcome you will almost never need it in SP (which is what I assume you are thinking around.)


Comparing Ash and Stalker doesn't matter since Stalker is exclusive to Duviri as of now. Ash is also really good, not everything needs scaling (especially since he is NOT a damage frame, he is an assassin. he already got invis and armor strip stars.)

 

Incarnon melees are bad, this I will agree on however Hate is pretty good for a incarnon melee. 

 

I suggest watching some guides. Slash bad? Ha, jokes.

slash is weird to me because it straight up does not scale off of the slash status damage but base damage from pressure point, its a confusing thing

 

toxin is good but its just one step away from viral which is infinitely better at giving better damage. 

 

impact is good if its a side damage for eximi

 

puncture i feel would benefit from an updating of how it would scale instead of just capping.

 

ash i realized is decent but other frames does the whole finisher better because its just single target. 

 

incarnon melees just feel like they slapped some other melee weapons unique stat on and didnt go farther than that. if youre gonna have a form swapping to it maybe make it into a cool version of it, dont be afraid to add new attack patterns as well to an incarnon (archon weapons have that)

[(PSN)EntityPendragon]

20 minutes ago, Becson said:

slash is weird to me because it straight up does not scale off of the slash status damage but base damage from pressure point, its a confusing thing

 

toxin is good but its just one step away from viral which is infinitely better at giving better damage. 

 

impact is good if its a side damage for eximi

 

puncture i feel would benefit from an updating of how it would scale instead of just capping.

 

ash i realized is decent but other frames does the whole finisher better because its just single target. 

 

incarnon melees just feel like they slapped some other melee weapons unique stat on and didnt go farther than that. if youre gonna have a form swapping to it maybe make it into a cool version of it, dont be afraid to add new attack patterns as well to an incarnon (archon weapons have that)

Oh gods, this reply is nonsense. Slash is the best damage status in the game PERIOD. Viral is the best status at making everything better, but slash is undoubtedly the best damage dealing status next to heat especially with crit involved, heard of convectrix?

Toxin damage doesn't need anything. It goes through shields and it's main purpose is to cause damage, not amplify like viral.

Puncture is a damage type that does not NEED to be insanely good or will it ever, considering what it does is immediately outclassed by every bit of survivability we have in the game already. DR, shield gating, loads of invis, healing. Shield gating single handedly makes all forms of survivability irrelevant cause of it's nature.

 

Incarnon melee's are really bad, this we can agree on however whatever they get will always help them, and the form swapping? If incarnon melee's were gonna have form swapping to the level of changing it to another weapon, we would have had it with zariman weapons. They have already said that changing melees like that is really hard on the game, hate is an example of incarnon melee done right, incarnon genesis was intended to make weapons incarnon, no shot that they dont completely change considering they weren't incarnon in the first place. That is the main reason why we didn't really get anything on the level of zariman weapons.

[Joezone619]

 

-Railjack
-Open world sections (safe for duviri)
-ash, nyx, frost, hydroid, limbo, probably more
-invasion missions

A lot of this stuff has either been horribly abandoned or only half-completed with "we'll finish it later" in mind.

 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2023-06-06 at 6:51 AM, mariberry-hearn said:

Reworking Ash just because he has a "variant" that's locked to only one gamemode and has zero flexibility in customization is a bit silly

No offence to the OP but it sounds like they are talking out on anger so I'll give you the reason.

Ash needs a revisit, Ash has issues most people don`t know about or refuse to know about.

Here are some examples:

• His 3 can`t consistantly open humanoid enemies to finishers.
• His 1 can't consistently hit the enemy you choose to hit.
• His 4 takes away the purpose of his 1 and 3.

There are a lot more issues that Ash has and bladestorm has the most of the issues.

I think people online make out that Ash is amazing and perfect but looking deeper it only prove he has issues but they don`t like the frame they are using.

Like the OP said and what i`ve been saying, the stalker is proof that Ash has issues and needs a revisit, so yes I agree with the op and if Ash can get a revisit on the level of what Nezha or what Grendal got he would be sick as heck.. 

[quxier]

16 hours ago, (PSN)EntityPendragon said:

Puncture is a damage type that does not NEED to be insanely good or will it ever, considering what it does is immediately outclassed by every bit of survivability we have in the game already. DR, shield gating, loads of invis, healing. Shield gating single handedly makes all forms of survivability irrelevant cause of it's nature.

So what's the point of it? "Here is another name for you to remember" isn't great. You get Viral/heat combo. Slash fits well too. Then you have enemy-specific restrictions like deimos is good against viral but worse against corrosive. Then SP may have something more.

Where does that Puncture fit? Where would you put Puncture mods (arcanes?). I see "some" usage of impact but puncture is just not very useful.

On 2023-06-06 at 9:58 AM, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

Every single status (and also damage types) don't need to be effective against Grineer : there are other factions in the game.

What's effective against Griner will be effective against other faction.

[Tiltskillet]

On 2023-06-06 at 12:58 AM, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

I'm just a bit curious and I need to ask : what do you think about Magnetic status effect ? You've made no mention to this and, in my opinion, it's the status effect that needs the most some attention.

More than Blast? 

[Mazifet]

So equinox needs a rework because they don't have some imaginary augment? SImply put that augment would be trash. Why would anyone use it when equinox already nukes entire tilesets, killing every enemy? What purpose would enemies exploding have when they're already dead?

[(PSN)EntityPendragon]

6 hours ago, quxier said:

So what's the point of it? "Here is another name for you to remember" isn't great. You get Viral/heat combo. Slash fits well too. Then you have enemy-specific restrictions like deimos is good against viral but worse against corrosive. Then SP may have something more.

Where does that Puncture fit? Where would you put Puncture mods (arcanes?). I see "some" usage of impact but puncture is just not very useful.

New mod maybe? added function wouldn't be a bad idea just can't think of one.

Pretty sure I was talking bs about this one when I wrote it. Doesn't make that much sense other than the second part now that I read it.

[Becson]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)EntityPendragon said:

New mod maybe? added function wouldn't be a bad idea just can't think of one.

Pretty sure I was talking bs about this one when I wrote it. Doesn't make that much sense other than the second part now that I read it.

what they mean out of the ips trio, puncture is the least used. it doesnt have a slash variant that when it procs slash procs. basically puncture is the third wheel of ips

[(PSN)EntityPendragon]

1 minute ago, Becson said:

what they mean out of the ips trio, puncture is the least used. it doesnt have a slash variant that when it procs slash procs. basically puncture is the third wheel of ips

Im aware, just took another day to fully realize it

[Becson]

I JUST REMEMBERED A REALLY BAD FROST THING THAT HAS NEVER BEEN FIXED

 

not you or your allies being able to shoot through it from the outside, like HUH??????

[(PSN)EntityPendragon]

14 minutes ago, Becson said:

I JUST REMEMBERED A REALLY BAD FROST THING THAT HAS NEVER BEEN FIXED

 

not you or your allies being able to shoot through it from the outside, like HUH??????

It is actually intended. Frosts abilities were created in a waaay older time of warframe. Where things were much slower and there was not as many things to help with survival (No shield gating, no rolling guard). Which is to mean that it is just out-dated and needs a bit of fresh paint

Edited June 8, 2023 by (PSN)EntityPendragon

[Becson]

26 minutes ago, (PSN)EntityPendragon said:

It is actually intended. Frosts abilities were created in a waaay older time of warframe. Where things were much slower and there was not as many things to help with survival (No shield gating, no rolling guard). Which is to mean that it is just out-dated and needs a bit of fresh paint

but you get what im saying on some of these things, that the paint is being chipped off and other things are lead paint and just hurt the game in the long run. 

 

examples of the lead paint: rail jack and drop chances on certain frames (ie equinox and khora) for some reason, they do not want to put equinox the DAY AND NIGHT FRAME on the planet that HAS THAT as a system for the entire thing

examples of paint is scrapped off the wall: frost dome, inaros deal with no real lasting abilities of his own, puncture, bosses that are just reskins of basic enemies

examples of paint that needs a new coat: qol changes to certain abilities or buffs/reworks to things that are capped at weird things such as mesas 1 

 

while i can say my complaints, there are reasons why people should be outspoken about certain things, like im pretty sure players were the reason why BREAKABLE GLASS IN SPACE CORPUS MISSIONS were removed, they were horrid! or why maintaining pets was removed entirely 

[AegidiusF]

  

Le 07/06/2023 à 15:59, Tiltskillet a dit :

More than Blast? 

Blast ? Never heard about this... 😂

You are right : it's so bad that I've totally forgot it still exists.

And it's not only Blast status, but also Blast damage type that needs some changes.

Le 07/06/2023 à 15:49, quxier a dit :

What's effective against Griner will be effective against other faction.

I don't agree. Toxin is excellent against Corpus and does not perform very well against Grineer (it can work, but it's not that good). Corrosive is excellent against Grineer, but performs bad against Corpus. Viral is excellent against Grineer, but against Corpus, it wont help much, specially on buffed shield Sorties, except if paired with DoT ordamage type that bypasses shields, but even without Viral they will perform very well.

Le 06/06/2023 à 19:12, Becson a dit :

ok towards the other the issue is "everything i can do i can do better" where every status is outclassed by viral because it just does PURE damage, pure damage is in this realm of jack of all trades that just breaks the power scaling. 

As you know, the only thing Viral status does is to buff damage to HP. Viral and Magnetic do the same thing, but one is applied to HP and the other to shields. As we have some means to bypass shields, Magnetic is not the best option. As we also have means to bypass armor, Viral will be very well if combined with True damage (Bleeding procs, as an exemple, or just by stripping armor through some abilities), but if you can't damage HP directly or if you can't bypass armor, Viral will be a nice buff, but not that good.

Le 06/06/2023 à 19:12, Becson a dit :

cold, piercing, gas, blast, corrosive, and magnetic have weird quirks to them. cold just slows enemies but you can just outright stun them with shock, piercing reduces damage output but hard caps, gas is only strong against infested yet has this unique aoe to it that while decent still isnt gonna be the main damage, blast is just, knockdown but doesnt do anything fancy. oddly corrosive i feel should have a dot considering ACID but just strips armor, and nothing else?

There is much more than this : cold reduces incoming damage by reducing the enemy fire rate and makes head shots easier and can last much longer than Electric status. Gas is unique, but it also has some nice synergies that makes it almost OP (of course, in itself is not that good, but combined with other mechanics, it can be really OP even against Grineer). Blast also reduces the enemy accuracy, but, I agree, it's not really reliable. Corrosive is not as good as before, but it can be really nice by reducing armor : the idea behind Corrosive is that it needs to be considered in pair with the damage type : Corrosive Damage Type has a 75% multiplier against Ferrite Armor (very common among Grineer), but this multiplier will only be applied if the armor is still there : if Corrosive status removed all armor, corrosive damage would lose it's damage multiplier against Ferrite armor. So, the idea behind this status is not only to remove armor, but to buff the Corrosive damage against the most affected targets (those with Ferrite armor) and this requires not removing all armor, but reducing it to a small amount. It can sound a bit weird, but Corrosive damage does much more damage on a target with only a small amount of Ferrite Armor than on a target that has no armor at all.

Le 06/06/2023 à 19:12, Becson a dit :

my entire thing is that if there are gonna be status effects in a game, they should be more than just number changers. radiation is a good example of a great status effect because it does more than just damage, it causes enemies to attack one another. it sees its job and does it well.

I agree. That's why Cold is nice in my opinion and Puncture and Blast could get some changes to work better : two additional layers of DR.

As Blast affects enemy accuracy, at 10 stacks, it should disarm them (just an idea, not really a proposition).

As Puncture reduces enemy damage, it could scale a bit higher and last longer (just an idea, not really a proposition).

Edited June 8, 2023 by (NSW)AegisFifi

[quxier]

1 hour ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

22 hours ago, quxier said:

What's effective against Griner will be effective against other faction.

I don't agree. Toxin is excellent against Corpus and does not perform very well against Grineer (it can work, but it's not as that good). Corrosive is excellent against Grineer, but performs bad against Corpus. Viral is excellent against Grineer, but against Corpus, it wont help much, specially on buffed shield Sorties, except if paired with DoT ordamage type that bypasses shields, but even without Viral they will perform very well.

I mean when I'm using certain elements like Viral/heat combo I don't feel like Corpus and other faction die slower than Grineer.

1 hour ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

There is much more than this : cold reduces incoming damage by reducing the enemy fire rate

But electric reduce it even farther... to 0.

1 hour ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

r and can last much longer than Electric status.

What do you mean can last longer? Both (electric & cold) have 6 second duration... unless I'm missing something.

 

[AegidiusF]

il y a 9 minutes, quxier a dit :

But electric reduce it even farther... to 0.

il y a 9 minutes, quxier a dit :

What do you mean can last longer? Both (electric & cold) have 6 second duration... unless I'm missing something.

Electric status and its stun duration are not the same : the stun duration lasts only 3 seconds and do not scale with Status Duration mods, but the Electric status will still cause DoT for the other 3 seconds of its duration (and also damage nearby enemies), but with no stun effect.

[Mazifet]

8 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

Gas is unique, but it also has some nice synergies that makes it almost OP (of course, in itself is not that good, but combined with other mechanics, it can be really OP even against Grineer)

Gas is probably the strongest status effect when built towards. Vectis Prime gas builds essentially turn it into an aoe monster, and similar effects can be achieved with Perigale.

The most powerful synergy however is with Lavos and Sickening Pulse. Lavos's 4 can use gas by infusing toxin and heat from his 1st and 4rth, and additionally the damage scaling can be quite silly at times. The calculation goes like (2000 + Infused element) x 2^{Number of unique elemental status effects (10)} x (1+ Modded power strength). 

For example, my lavos build has 237% strength (77% from Umbral intensify and 60% from Molt augmented), so with all elemental status effects proc'd it would look something like 4000 x 2¹⁰ x 2.37, giving me nearly 10 million damage. This isn't factoring in bonus damage from stuff like viral, and the fact that sickening pulse will basically multiply the gas dot damage by 10 giving well over 300 million lingering aoe damage in a large radius.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Mazifet

[Tiltskillet]

3 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

3 hours ago, quxier said:

What do you mean can last longer? Both (electric & cold) have 6 second duration... unless I'm missing something.

Electric status and its stun duration are not the same : the stun duration lasts only 3 seconds and do not scale with Status Duration mods, but the Electric status will still cause DoT for the other 3 seconds of its duration (and also damage nearby enemies), but with no stun effect.

Also many targets are immune to electric (and heat) status CC, while almost all are affected by cold.

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 2 heures, Mazifet a dit :

Gas is probably the strongest status effect when built towards. Vectis Prime gas build essentially turn it into an aoe monster, and similar effects can be achieved with Perigale.

The most powerful synergy however is with Lavos and Sickening Pulse. Lavos's 4 can use gas by infusing toxin and heat from his 1st and 4rth, and additionally the damage scaling can be quite silly at times. The calculation goes like (2000 + Infused element) x 2^{Number of unique elemental status effects (10)} x (1+ Modded power strength). 

For example, my lavos build has 237% strength (77% from Umbral intensify and 60% from Molt augmented), so with all elemental status effects proc'd it would look something like 4000 x 2¹⁰ x 2.37, giving me nearly 10 million damage. This isn't factoring in bonus damage from stuff like viral, and the fact that sickening pulse will basically multiply the gas dot damage by 10 giving well over 300 million lingering aoe damage in a large radius.

^^^ THIS ^^^

A real lesson ! That's why nobody should ignore this status effect.