Albrecht Entrati's Grave

[Cerikus]

I am pretty sure this grave belongs to Albrecht Entrati...

[SneakyErvin]

2 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

I am pretty sure this grave belongs to Albrecht Entrati...

It's Ballas if you read the fragment about the Stranger, it describes him quite spot on "hair like looped snakes". I dont know anyone else that dons that hairdo. It also makes sense since a conceptualized Ballas is the Warden. And he's either been conceptualized by the duvirians, Drifter or Kullervo whom is a living frame and predates the tenno.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

"What was Albrecht Entrati's ultimate fate?"

"That's the question, isn't it, kiddo?" 

[--END--Rikutatis]

Nice find! Which island is this grave on? 

I do believe more in the albrecht theory than ballas. It makes sense with the duviri codex and deimos story. 

[Cerikus]

11 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It's Ballas if you read the fragment about the Stranger, it describes him quite spot on "hair like looped snakes". I dont know anyone else that dons that hairdo. It also makes sense since a conceptualized Ballas is the Warden. And he's either been conceptualized by the duvirians, Drifter or Kullervo whom is a living frame and predates the tenno.

What does this have to do with what I posted? I don't understand.

6 minutes ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

Nice find! Which island is this grave on? 

The marked cave. South-East of Duviri.

[SneakyErvin]

26 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

What does this have to do with what I posted? I don't understand.

The text on the tomb, it speaks of the stranger, the father, the scholar. The stranger/scholar is described the following way.

Quote

 

This stranger had haunted eyes and a downcast mien, and spoke of the Wall and the worlds beyond. He wore his hair like looped snakes, and his voice carried an accent unlike any in Duviri.

With the King's permission, he constructed a great laboratory of light-smoking mirrors and Void-lanthorns, which he claimed was the match of one he had once owned in a former life. The island where it stood was known as Scholar's Landing.

 

I just dont see the description as fitting to describe Albrecht, someone we barely have any visual representation of. The description does however fit all forms of Ballas we've ran into. Sure it could be Albrecht that is the stranger/scholar, but it would be very odd to add in a description of the persons hair, especially a person we havent seen outside of a painting, when the description fits in very well with a person we run into far more often.

And like I said, someone has conceptualized Ballas, so he either must have been there so people knew him, or it was Kullervo that conceptualized his own warden, the man he tried to murder. Drifter and the durvirians cannot have conceptualized Ballas since no one had any ties to him. But if he was loved and now gone, emotions for him could have very well recreated him. And if Kullervo ended up on Duviri, the person who banished him there must have known about the place. And reading his crimes, Ballas did that. So it wouldnt be odd if he was there at one point, either the real one or a "Drifter Ballas".

Not to mention that Albrecht made sure not to live on or go back into the void.

 

[Cerikus]

6 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

The text on the tomb, it speaks of the stranger, the father, the scholar. The stranger/scholar is described the following way.

I just dont see the description as fitting to describe Albrecht, someone we barely have any visual representation of. The description does however fit all forms of Ballas we've ran into. Sure it could be Albrecht that is the stranger/scholar, but it would be very odd to add in a description of the persons hair, especially a person we havent seen outside of a painting, when the description fits in very well with a person we run into far more often.

And like I said, someone has conceptualized Ballas, so he either must have been there so people knew him, or it was Kullervo that conceptualized his own warden, the man he tried to murder. Drifter and the durvirians cannot have conceptualized Ballas since no one had any ties to him. But if he was loved and now gone, emotions for him could have very well recreated him. And if Kullervo ended up on Duviri, the person who banished him there must have known about the place. And reading his crimes, Ballas did that. So it wouldnt be odd if he was there at one point, either the real one or a "Drifter Ballas".

Not to mention that Albrecht made sure not to live on or go back into the void.

 

I feel like you are contradicting me just for the fun of it.

Albrecht (unlike Ballas) was literally a scholar.
To whom is Ballas father? Albrecht literally has a daughter we know personally.
He is described as a stranger in the lore.
He has dreadlocks, just like all the Orokin.

[Pakaku]

32 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Not to mention that Albrecht made sure not to live on or go back into the void.

Duviri's thing is all about paradoxes, maybe "Duviri Albrecht" is the version of him who chose to stay

[Cerikus]

13 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

Duviri's thing is all about paradoxes, maybe "Duviri Albrecht" is the version of him who chose to stay

No. Real Albrecht refused Continuity and disappeared. That is pretty much confirmed. And based on Duviri lore, he was seen on an island, where he build a laboratory, but that island disappeared.

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, Cerikus said:

No. Real Albrecht refused Continuity and disappeared. That is pretty much confirmed. And based on Duviri lore, he was seen on an island, where he build a laboratory, but that island disappeared.

Mother is obsessed with Finding him. Everyone else think's he's dead, but perhaps he found his way to Duviri?

[Cerikus]

1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

Mother is obsessed with Finding him. Everyone else think's he's dead, but perhaps he found his way to Duviri?

I belive it. He couldn't be sure that it was him, who escaped the Void, and not the "other one". That's why he refused Continuity.
One day he vanished and so they eventually made an empty grave for him. But Euleria still belives.. She says this:

Quote

"One shard of seriglass is all I have left of my father. But it's all I need to find him again."

This pretty much confirms that there was no body. And the new text on the grave confirms it as well. And the tablet question as well...

Basically, DE made Albrecht the "deus ex machina" character. He knows probably everything and he will interfere, when it will be needed.

[ant99999]

1 hour ago, Cerikus said:

Basically, DE made Albrecht the "deus ex machina" character. He knows probably everything and he will interfere, when it will be needed.

That would be one deus ex machina I'll enjoy very much. If somewhere deeper into all this Void story ark we find ourself stuck in a dire catastrophic situation, and then without any setup or preface Albrecht appears out of nowhere, hands us the answer and disappears back.

Deus ex machina is bad when you don't introduce the possibility of it and just leave everything intentionally vague so that basically anything can happen, and miraculously whichever is more convenient to the storywriter ends up happening. But in this case Albrecht's character and motives are already established, we already know this is a possibility, so when it eventually happens it will make perfect sense.

[Cerikus]

28 minutes ago, ant99999 said:

That would be one deus ex machina I'll enjoy very much. If somewhere deeper into all this Void story ark we find ourself stuck in a dire catastrophic situation, and then without any setup or preface Albrecht appears out of nowhere, hands us the answer and disappears back.

Deus ex machina is bad when you don't introduce the possibility of it and just leave everything intentionally vague so that basically anything can happen, and miraculously whichever is more convenient to the storywriter ends up happening. But in this case Albrecht's character and motives are already established, we already know this is a possibility, so when it eventually happens it will make perfect sense.

Exactly.

However, I am almost sure it will not go like that, because people writing Warframe's story are always able to organically subvert the expectations in a way that makes sense. I feel like Albrecht being a "Gandalf and Rohirrim army" would be kinda predictable.

If I were the person writing the story, I would probably take inspiration form Lovecraftian stories. I really hope that Wally is not gonna be just another bad guy, but undefeatable entity that's not entirely evil, but has it's own reasoning for it's actions. Then I would want Albrecht to be something like what Bran Stark was supposed to be before they butchered the tv show. Someone who already knows everything, but is unable to interfere directly, but that knowledge of past, present and future would allow him to tip the scales and indirectly guide us in our attempt to stop Wally. But that just general babbling.

EDIT:
Tipping the scales could for example be something like helping Lotus' hand to fall into duviri, while taking bodies of us and Lotus and keeping them preserved until Drifter picks them up to do what happens in New war. :)

[ant99999]

17 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

However, I am almost sure it will not go like that, because people writing Warframe's story are always able to organically subvert the expectations in a way that makes sense

That's true. I've long since given up on trying to predict what exactly is going to happen. Cause the writers usually are going exactly for unpredictability. And I love that.

At the end of the day I just want to eventually see Albrecht in the flesh. Even if the interaction will be limited in some way.

[PublikDomain]

13 minutes ago, ant99999 said:

At the end of the day I just want to eventually see Albrecht in the flesh. Even if the interaction will be limited in some way.

>Captain Vor back
>Albrecht Entrati back
>Old man Teshin
>Parvos off who knows where

Old man meta confirmed.

[ant99999]

4 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

>Captain Vor back
>Albrecht Entrati back
>Old man Teshin
>Parvos off who knows where

We also have Hunhow by the way.

Add here possible Elder Queen retyrn and watch Warframe story being taken over by charismatic old people.

[CephalonCarnage]

3 hours ago, Cerikus said:

Basically, DE made Albrecht the "deus ex machina" character. He knows probably everything and he will interfere, when it will be needed

Finally, we have an end-game content ready to go. Albrect and Wally fighting each other, in giant mech robots.

[Cerikus]

6 minutes ago, CephalonCarnage said:

Finally, we have an end-game content ready to go. Albrect and Wally fighting each other, in giant mech robots.

[Hobie-wan]

5 hours ago, Cerikus said:

To whom is Ballas father?

Warframes.

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, Cerikus said:

I feel like you are contradicting me just for the fun of it.

Albrecht (unlike Ballas) was literally a scholar.
To whom is Ballas father? Albrecht literally has a daughter we know personally.
He is described as a stranger in the lore.
He has dreadlocks, just like all the Orokin.

I'm simply stating my take on it from the info we have access to.

What would you call Ballas if not a scholar? Both of the two were/are scientists and scholars, just in different fields. More people than Albrecht made use of the labs described. Practically everything made post the encounter Albrecht had in the void is done by others, because he wanted nothing more to do with it because he was afraid. We have the equipment described all over Lua for instance, inside void towers and so on. Just because we know Ballas is a royal ass it doesnt mean everyone that meets him does. He's also a very charismatic individual overall.

We dont know if Ballas is a father or not to anything. And if it was Ballas ending up on Duviri we dont know if he became a father or a father figure there. No matter who the stranger is, they were on Duviri for a very long time. And whatever Albrecht is in the "real" world and what we know about him there, does not translate to a grave elsewhere where we simply dont know any of that stuff. The Drifter doesnt know his daughter personally, many years pass between the Stranger and the island disappearing and we meeting any of the entrati even with the tenno. I mean, the time alone that has passed between Zariman and now is 1000+ years according to the game.

And I dont really think they hint at generic dreads when they bother to mention them as a clue.

16 hours ago, Pakaku said:

Duviri's thing is all about paradoxes, maybe "Duviri Albrecht" is the version of him who chose to stay

That wouldnt work, since Duviri doesnt come into exsistance until after Zariman, which is long after Albrecht runs into Wally. When the stranger ends up on Duviri it already exsists. It is also walled off from the rest of the void through the barrier tied to the Zariman, the Albrecth Membrane. 

[(NSW)fonglis]

Il y a 3 heures, SneakyErvin a dit :

That wouldnt work, since Duviri doesnt come into exsistance until after Zariman, which is long after Albrecht runs into Wally. When the stranger ends up on Duviri it already exsists. It is also walled off from the rest of the void through the barrier tied to the Zariman, the Albrecth Membrane. 

There is still the possibility of a conceptual embodiment of Albrecth since he directly go to the void and encounter wally.

Il y a 17 heures, Cerikus a dit :

I really hope that Wally is not gonna be just another bad guy, but undefeatable entity that's not entirely evil

Until DE state what or who is wally exactly , for me he is and will be an avatar of chaos , not good nor bad just chaos , afterall all he have done bring chaos , and like light can't exist without dark , there can't be harmony without chaos.

[Cerikus]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm simply stating my take on it from the info we have access to.

What would you call Ballas if not a scholar? Both of the two were/are scientists and scholars, just in different fields. More people than Albrecht made use of the labs described. Practically everything made post the encounter Albrecht had in the void is done by others, because he wanted nothing more to do with it because he was afraid. We have the equipment described all over Lua for instance, inside void towers and so on. Just because we know Ballas is a royal ass it doesnt mean everyone that meets him does. He's also a very charismatic individual overall.

We dont know if Ballas is a father or not to anything. And if it was Ballas ending up on Duviri we dont know if he became a father or a father figure there. No matter who the stranger is, they were on Duviri for a very long time. And whatever Albrecht is in the "real" world and what we know about him there, does not translate to a grave elsewhere where we simply dont know any of that stuff. The Drifter doesnt know his daughter personally, many years pass between the Stranger and the island disappearing and we meeting any of the entrati even with the tenno. I mean, the time alone that has passed between Zariman and now is 1000+ years according to the game.

And I dont really think they hint at generic dreads when they bother to mention them as a clue.

You can have your take. That doesn't change anything about the fact that it's Albrecht Entrati's grave.

21 minutes ago, (NSW)fonglis said:

Until DE state what or who is wally exactly , for me he is and will be an avatar of chaos , not good nor bad just chaos , afterall all he have done bring chaos , and like light can't exist without dark , there can't be harmony without chaos.

Sure, that's totally fine interpretation and I like it. I just don't want Wally to be "bad guy". Generic antagonist that must be defeated just because. I like very much what they did with Ballas btw, because while totally evil, he had his reasons. Even evil enemy should have a motive. Even Lovecraftian horrors have a motive.

[SneakyErvin]

20 minutes ago, (NSW)fonglis said:

There is still the possibility of a conceptual embodiment of Albrecth since he directly go to the void and encounter wally.

If Wally created him yes, but at that point he wouldnt have any knowledge about the outside world after the point of the real him leaving the void. If he was released on the real world as an embodyment he wouldnt have lasted long in Orokin society since he would stand out, not only by his appearance, but by the fact there would be two Albrecht all of a sudden. So him knowing so much and warning the duvirians in such a case would be very odd.

2 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

You can have your take. That doesn't change anything about the fact that it's Albrecht Entrati's grave.

Honestly it isnt a fact, it is just two different specualtions. I'd honestly like to know who it actually is. Something we hopefully will get info on eventually. There are just things with Ballas that seem extremely unlikely as random outcomes in his planning of things. Especially where he plans to dispose both the tenno and lotus in TNW. He opens a very specific void hole leading to a very specific place, where we've just recently also discovered that an ancient frame has ended up for eternal punishment while sentenced by the same person.

[Loza03]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

What would you call Ballas if not a scholar? Both of the two were/are scientists and scholars, just in different fields. More people than Albrecht made use of the labs described. Practically everything made post the encounter Albrecht had in the void is done by others, because he wanted nothing more to do with it because he was afraid. We have the equipment described all over Lua for instance, inside void towers and so on. Just because we know Ballas is a royal ass it doesnt mean everyone that meets him does. He's also a very charismatic individual overall.

This is true, though it's equally worth noting that his scholarly aspects are much more downplayed than Albrecht's narratively.

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

We dont know if Ballas is a father or not to anything. And if it was Ballas ending up on Duviri we dont know if he became a father or a father figure there. No matter who the stranger is, they were on Duviri for a very long time. And whatever Albrecht is in the "real" world and what we know about him there, does not translate to a grave elsewhere where we simply dont know any of that stuff. The Drifter doesnt know his daughter personally, many years pass between the Stranger and the island disappearing and we meeting any of the entrati even with the tenno. I mean, the time alone that has passed between Zariman and now is 1000+ years according to the game.

True, we don't know if Ballas is a father. As far as theorycrafting goes, that means we have to assume he isn't. Otherwise we're building on speculation. If Ballas is revealed to have a kid, then sure, and that could be a fun recontextualisation moment. For the moment, however

Also, whilst the Drifter created Duviri, not everything that happens in Duviri relates back to him. They didn't know Teshin, after all. Once Duviri was created it became an independently exsiting place with its own rules that other people could interact with, and its own very weird sense of time, and that has indpendent Duviri citizens with their own personalities and agency. They could have created it during Duviri's unseen history that might occur during or before Drifter settled into his routine. If Drifter forgot that he created the place, it's likely he forgot other things.

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

That wouldnt work, since Duviri doesnt come into exsistance until after Zariman, which is long after Albrecht runs into Wally. When the stranger ends up on Duviri it already exsists. It is also walled off from the rest of the void through the barrier tied to the Zariman, the Albrecth Membrane. 

The Warden also shows up, presumably after Ballas dies in the real world in close proximity to the void, yet the Drifter has yet to leave Duviri properly and go put those events in motion.

[Cerikus]

23 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Honestly it isnt a fact, it is just two different specualtions.

I guess you think Earth being a globe or a flat disk are also two different speculations.