July 2023 Riven Dispositions

[Motodog242]

So... with the introduction of incarnon's to, well no sugar-coating it, vastly inferior weapons that you use only for mastery fodder, wouldn't now be a great time to just delete disposition? There's little to no reason to focus on trimming numbers, if a weapon gets over-centralized, it's definitely not because of its disposition, and as we saw with Furex, popularity is meaningless to determine how strong a weapon's stats are when an augment is the only reason it's used.

As it stands right now, there's no reason to use a riven on Kuva Grattler or Phantasma Prime, as examples, because their stats are borderline the same as their base counterparts but have worst dispositions than said counterparts.

Most of the disposition changes are as different as taking one more shot of your weapon or one more swing of your melee, it's very silly to still have these complicated nerfs or buffs every 3-5 months, lol.

[Mr.SpookSpook]

So you let the currently most op weapons keep their 1-1,5 dispos, but you still want to start every crappy new weapon at 0.5... 

Such logic much wow.

Just keep all riven values between 1 and 2 so they don't become useless junk and they would always be worth investing time and resources into and even the worst weapons vould see a bit more love.

That 0.5 to 0.6 change on Larkspur Prime has the be an out of season April's fool's joke... The weapon already barely got an upgrade with the Prime version and the terrible useless dispo doesn't help.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Mr.SpookSpook

[NovaUmbral]

2 hours ago, Voltage said:

It's quite the charade when you're old enough to know that it hasn't had any impact on what players choose in mission for a very, very long time.

I think the only time they've had a significance was during Whips having absurd range values.
Still hurts that older incarnonless gear is just forgotten, if they are not willing to meaningfully buff old stuff at least bump them to 1.5 and leave it at that.

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

Smh no GHOULSAW buffs this time.

[Frendh]

Isn't this something that should be automated? Gather data for six months. Run evaluation.  Run update.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Frendh

[ChaellExE]

I really hate how riven work at the moment. I try for a weapon that I actually own and do want. Mind you dispo is 5. 90% of the time it isn't for a weapon that I want nor own. It's neither for a weapon that I would be interested in. And the worst part of this all are those challenges that are sometimes so nerve wrecking only for the disappointment that comes after. For the last 2ish month, ever since Kingsday in the Netherlands, I have been playing warframe and cracking open rivens on a somewhat daily basis. All for a weapon that supposedly has a riven dispo of 5.  FURIS, to be exact the MK1-Variant but I have both in my inventory and have switched them around when unveiling. 

50+ rivens later ever since then. None are for that weapon, are because I haven't gotten a riven for it as of yet.

Beyond the 30+ mark I started to feel disrespected. Seeing how my weapon has a dispo of 5. 

Especially since some weapons seems to come more often. I have seen AKFURIS 3x, plinx 3x - I really hate that weapon since THE NEW WAR. And any kind of weapon like that in warframe. It's slow, shoots 1 bullet and isn't even that effective. Weird decision for a game that sends hordes of enemies on the player. 

Back to the riven unveiling. I really wish there was a way for both the unveiling and increasing the chance to actually get a riven for the weapon that I want, without the expenditure of opening my wallet.  And don't even get me talking about the stats.

5 Disappoints for a sometimes abysmal improvement. 

The Acquisition
The Challenges
The Unveiling
The Stats
The Stash.              

My Rivens experience for the last 2+ months in general:
With the amount of rivens I popped you think it would be easy to get and that I made any bank. But it took like more than 2 hours sometimes to even get my hands on a riven. And with some challenges depending on cycles of the world. Not accounting for popping of the riven through those challenges. And the fact that my stash has only space for 28 rivens. Of which around 24 are taken by rivens of weapons that I actually like and was lucky enough to acquire. This doesn't leave much space. It actually takes 4 rivens to cycle in to a new one. And hoping that that riven also turns into the type of riven that you need, adding more RNG to the already long list of disappoints. 

Acquisition: 
Of all methods that are somewhat reliable I have tried for acquiring rivens. The most reliable method was Teshin. But since it actually requires me to do Steel Path, it's also the hardest, as I don't have weapons to effectively getting through a Steel Path mission. The next method, which takes the longest time in general is Palladino. This one which baffled me, as that it was more reliable method of riven acquisition than other methods in game. And that was transmutation. Trading (unwanted) 4 rivens into a new veiled one. While you actually need 4 rivens to do this, it wasn't as bad as the other methods, but still unreliable, as what you get out of it in terms of weapons is also random. Then there is also the Duviri shop, but that method is not that reliable due to the timer on the available inventory and the resources needed for the acquisition. Meaning that if I don't have the resources available at the time of going to the shop, that I might miss it entirely, because I will have to play at least 4ish - The Duviri Experience, which takes around 20 to 30 minutes to finish. Not accounting for disconnection, host connection, bugs, squad members stalling in the broadest sense. and other issues which will also at to the total time. I can attempt to do it solo. But the most unreliable part of this comes in terms of those RNG weapons. Surprisingly Sorties turned out to be the least reliable method, mostly getting ayatans.

And yes there are other methods like events, alerts and such. But none of these were actually viable in game during the past 2+ months. I had forgotten about Nibble, but that is also inventory heavy, thus another RNG element to it.

The Challenges:
The difficulty of these challenges comes in several forms.

1. My overall experience with said challenge. If I know what to do, because I already had my fair share of said challenge, it takes of the difficulty. But as with most of these supposedly challenges, they introduces ways that forces me to interact differently with the game, not in the this challenges me to interact with the game on a level, but not in a fun way. Due to this I'm bound to search for ways to bypass most of the challenges instead of it introducing me to really get deeper into the game mechanics to make it work. For this I will give 2 examples. The first one that actually made me interact deeper with the game was the get three headshots while gliding. According to my knowledge this was only possible with the right weapon with punchthrough, with the enemies aligning perfectly, if I attempted this on my wf as is. Then I looked at my available mods and say that there were indeed mods that increases glide time and bullet jump. Thus adding those, made this challenge a lot easier. It was time for the testing. Challenge done. The second challenge in this example was those dyrgyn pilots. you have to kill 3 to 10 before they hit the ground. Also allot of time wasted here. Waiting for day on cetus. First I have to make them spawn. Then I have to chase them and hoping that when I shoot them, it will be a clean shot through the head, instead of the shot hitting the vehicle, thus exploding, which doesn't kill the pilot but only slightly ejects and injures them. A Lot of time wasted for this challenges. Yes there are other methods or so I heard. But none of the methods made me interact deeper with the game. Just ways to clear it as soon as possible, while hoping that it never returns.

2. Then you have challenges that are straight up bonkers due the game handling stuff and newly introduced enemies. Example one. Complete and extermination without being detected. Stalker and others continuously invading the game. As soon as that screen flashes, you know it's over no matter how far you are.  Example two. we have Eximus enemies weird abilities, these rainbow FF'rs doing stuff when they are not even in the same room. As I am. There is a wall. Example three. we have that open challenges (challenges that don't have anything setup besides what game type and can only be completed on specific tiles). Meaning that each time you have that mission, you will have to run that mission to complete it. And since some of those riven challenges love to present themselves, that all you'll be spending your time on. 

The The Unveiling:
After said challenge you get a chance to get a riven for a weapon. Dispo doesn't seem to help at all or at least do not account for the acquisition for said weapon. It's random as af. As my last 2 months experience has shown. 

The stats:
So a riven can have 4 stats, of what you want is are three somewhat positive and coherent to each other, or boosting stats that really matter for a weapon. Mostly flat damage or crit. However most rivens roll in terms of 2 stats, some three stats if ever, and here and there four. All the while trash stats or not relevant stats for a weapon. And more than often also abysmal raises if any good. More than often way beyond the 10+ roll to finally to be able to see something along that actually matters. And I'm not even mentioning God rolls. Those are nigh impossible. The only redemption rivens actually have is that they are capable of replacing required mods for something else, so that you can have more utility with said weapon. But otherwise meh ... 

And then comes the stash:
I have x amount of place for my rivens. Which is okay. I'm not really complaining. The thing really comes with how this system works, where I wish it was handled differently. Especially those rivens which I don't need nor want but holds a place in my inventory so that I can transmute them.  THere should be a transmutation placeholder in game that doesn't account towards my riven inventory. It should be a permanent thing like once you place a riven in it, you can't get it back. So that players can't use this as an extra placeholder. Since the amount of trash (unwanted) rivens are high, this should be at least considered. 

So why haven't I made money on rivens. 
* because it takes a long time to acquire them, let alone account of said riven to be wanted enough for someone else to have, and that they are also willing to pay a decent price. And since WF doesn't have a good way that doesn't waste my time to sell stuff. I would rather not sink any more time into it, than it's actually worth it. Also I'm not a teen anymore that have that much time on my hands. Unless WF changes the player market trading, I won't interact with it, unless it's something that I want and see by coincidence that another player wants something which I'm willing to part with. 

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Edited July 29, 2023 by ChaellExE
Addition

[ChaellExE]

On 2023-07-27 at 7:51 PM, NovaLP said:

-- snip --

But rivens have failed were incarnon geneses succeded!

-- snip --

I'm not really agreeing with this. While said weapon may increase in stats. The thing that hampers some of them is the way there output method turns while being in incarnon form. Feralax for example. Decent Shotgun, mid tier shotgun. Only being hampered by the amount of bullets it has and the loading method. However when it turns to it's second form, it loses all that a shotgun can offer and turns into a dual pistol, that outputs less damage that the shotgun did and only out done the dps by the amount of bullets it has. In this came the Riven outweighs the incarnon. 

There are others that also suffer by this. So it's not really the saving grace as said here. 

[Neoronial]

2023/7/26 PM10点47分 , [DE]Connor 说:

With all things considered, we have decided to postpone all Disposition decreases in this set of changes.

That's okay.

But when is it ready to nerf Thermal Sunder?

Players who are addicted to Thermal Sunder hardly need to pay anything, they don't care what new weapons and content you introduce.

[rainy]

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When we normally release a brand new weapon, it starts at the minimum 0.5 disposition, because we know decreasing high Dispositions has never been popular. 

I think the approach for this should be obvious. Incarnon adaptors completely change the dynamic of a weapon as well as include stat bonuses of the player's choice. These adapted weapons should be considered uniquely prefixed as a variant and not use their original disposition once made Incarnon.

 

Primes, Prisma, Vandals all do this already. They have stat bonuses, and sometimes new fire modes. For incarnons, it becomes a long list because weapons with existing variants now have like, 4 x 2 variants (eg, Incarnon Strun Prime), but it's simply what is required. Thankfully dispositions are automated, right?

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We didn’t want to give Incarnon-equipped weapons their own 0.5 disposition, forcing players to sacrifice powerful Rivens in order to experience the new content, so we decided to leave Dispositions untouched for launch.

A difficult position indeed! As a player, rivens do bring certain excitement to these weapons, as well as making these particular rivens somewhat relevant for the first time ever. On the other hand, these incarnon forms are sometimes grossly overpowered in the scope of any player's arsenal. Some even exceed the likes of Laetum. I don't think their popularity should ever weigh on this! So many released all at once that the usage is totally diluted.

To be honest, DE can't possibly claim they are making further choices out of a concern of balance, while these incarnons have pushed the limits of player arsenals so far in one patch. I realize ya'll aren't one entity, maybe Pablo releases broken stuff, meanwhile riven department is following actual design rules.

Certain rivens which particular players are rightly frustrated with are the 0.5 disposition ones, bordering on unslottable, making the riven system itself irrelevant for the most popular weapons, which is really backwards for engagement! I've argued before that the dispositions should even be reduced further to 0.45 or even 0.40 because of the vast and rapidly growing chasm of power difference between current 1.5 dispo and 0.5 dispo weapons and because of DE's stubbornness to keep rivens capped to 1.55 disposition. I also appreciated that the best weapons didn't depend on rivens whatsoever, but some weps seriously need 2.0 or even 3.0 dispos to become relevant again even with the mightiest roll.

After having the incarnons with usable dispositions, I no longer believe this. I think there is some enjoyment from the riven system that is lost on 0.5 dispos, to the detriment of the game.

The obviously unpopular part is when invested players completely lose their value because the riven bottom is so low. Maybe the bottom should be adjusted to 0.65, and the ceiling should be uncapped.

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and only decrease weapons that are deemed problematic in their influence to the game as a whole. As of right now, no existing weapon meets this criteria,

Ya'll have hugely problematic weapons!!! You've only smothered their usage with a huge group of even stronger weapons!! The player usage analysis is deeply flawed for measuring equipment, not to mention the bottom end of equipment is just a desert of junk that is beloved by some but still untouched by everyone because they are literally a waste of time that can't complete missions, yet dispositions don't help them the other way around.

These weapons need to be measured and actively rebalanced after they are released, not recklessly unleashed to further make gameplay challenges impossible to create. This is a deep hole now that DE continues to dig over and over again. We run into it any time boss DR is introduced in a vain attempt to equalize equipment. Maybe bosses should only suffer Conclave-spec damage, since those are actually somewhat equalized! That's a winwin where conclave gets supported again and bosses can feel fair.