New protea augment [Temporal Erosion] is kind of bad

[pisces13]

6 minutes ago, -DeathOverLord- said:

You still don't understand, guy. You need to get some experience in play protea and then start making your own opinions, instead of following others like sheep. Protea absolutely needs no armor strip, was it her augment, terrify or anything else, you are just wasting a mod and an ability slot.

My advice to you is to learn and experience her kit. Play around with her, try different helminths, take her to the level cap, take her on a 3 hour sp fissure defense, push ESO. Just play around, your comments right now are as useless as my balls. please try her.

Dude. The point is SHE doesn't need to use helminth now. Especially against grineer faction with heavy armor. Why would I opt for grouping ability to gain heat stacks quicker when I can just strip armor in any direction I turn to and melt them much faster than any heat stacking can do? Obviously you hate temporal anchor and that's fine. But the augment is fine, her 4th is fine. I've already tried a bunch of helminth on her. Her base kit works fine. So stop making assumptions you can't back up.

[-DeathOverLord-]

6 minutes ago, pisces13 said:

Dude. The point is SHE doesn't need to use helminth now. Especially against grineer faction with heavy armor. Why would I opt for grouping ability to gain heat stacks quicker when I can just strip armor in any direction I turn to and melt them much faster than any heat stacking can do? Obviously you hate temporal anchor and that's fine. But the augment is fine, her 4th is fine. I've already tried a bunch of helminth on her. Her base kit works fine. So stop making assumptions you can't back up.

Dude how can you not understand. Armor strip is such bad damage increase on protea, roar gives you more damage in every scenario. Please listen to yourself, the augment is god tier on paper, but in practice it does not deliver, just like your comments.

One good example is, do you want to waste your 4th slot on a skill that hinders you and also waste a mod slot on this augment, while gaining bit more damage in a very niche moment in enemy scaling. Or are you going to subsume roar on her 4th, gain one more duration or other useful mod and gain way more damage with your skills (and your weapons).

Please for the love of god, go test out her different builds, make small changes and come back when you have hundreds, thousands or so hours in experience. I'd love to hear your thought then, you can pm me in game then at my username or even on discord @ captainoverlord 

[pisces13]

8 minutes ago, -DeathOverLord- said:

Dude how can you not understand. Armor strip is such bad damage increase on protea, roar gives you more damage in every scenario. Please listen to yourself, the augment is god tier on paper, but in practice it does not deliver, just like your comments.

One good example is, do you want to waste your 4th slot on a skill that hinders you and also waste a mod slot on this augment, while gaining bit more damage in a very niche moment in enemy scaling. Or are you going to subsume roar on her 4th, gain one more duration or other useful mod and gain way more damage with your skills (and your weapons).

Please for the love of god, go test out her different builds, make small changes and come back when you have hundreds, thousands or so hours in experience. I'd love to hear your thought then, you can pm me in game then at my username or even on discord @ captainoverlord 

I dont want to use roar or any helminth on protea. Okay? Argument over. Armor strip still kills faster than roar on grineer units. Nothing you say will change this fact.

Edited July 31, 2023 by pisces13

[-DeathOverLord-]

1 minute ago, pisces13 said:

I dont want to use roar or any helminth on protea. Okay? Argument over. Armor strip still kills faster than roar on grineer units. Nothing you say will change this fact.

Absolutely, that is your right, i'm not telling you to use any helminth, this whole thread is about the augment being lackluster and not worth using.

 

Roar has way higher kpm and than her augment, your untested and based on nothing comments will not change that fact. There is probably a point in star chart mission where her augment will yield better results, but already after level 150 enemies in steel path, armor strip does nothing, because her grenades deal such low damage on initial hit, meanwhile the slash procs from them bypass their armor and chew trough their hp.

[pisces13]

1 minute ago, -DeathOverLord- said:

Absolutely, that is your right, i'm not telling you to use any helminth, this whole thread is about the augment being lackluster and not worth using.

 

Roar has way higher kpm and than her augment, your untested and based on nothing comments will not change that fact. There is probably a point in star chart mission where her augment will yield better results, but already after level 150 enemies in steel path, armor strip does nothing, because her grenades deal such low damage on initial hit, meanwhile the slash procs from them bypass their armor and chew trough their hp.

😄 that's the issue. You're focusing on the grenades. They're only for armor stripping with the augment. The turrets is the bread and butter. You are a protea main right. You know this! Grenades soften em up, turrets finish them. Use one, the other, or both. Im telling you she kills level cap enemies in under 3 seconds but you're stuck on roar. What do I look like using roar on protea lol. Breaks immersion.

[pisces13]

If I wanted to use slash to kill enemies, I'd use a different frame that gives me room to do what I want like zephyr, revenant, banshee (with helminth, a sexy one at that), etc.

[-DeathOverLord-]

1 minute ago, pisces13 said:

😄 that's the issue. You're focusing on the grenades. They're only for armor stripping with the augment. The turrets is the bread and butter. You are a protea main right. You know this! Grenades soften em up, turrets finish them. Use one, the other, or both. Im telling you she kills level cap enemies in under 3 seconds but you're stuck on roar. What do I look like using roar on protea lol. Breaks immersion.

no, no thats just not it, my guy. Her turrets are one of the best single target abilities in the game. But her grenades cover such large area and kill enemies with slash procs fast enough that they truly are, single target. Her turrets are very good at clearing rooms too, but  her grenades deal damage trough walls and terrain, there is rarely a moment where you need to use turrets to clear trash mobs.

On my build my grenades cover 28 meter area per grenade and last for 30 seconds, and with the cast speed from archon shards there are tens if not hundreds of grenades all over the point i'm holding, i do up keep my turrets, but most of the time they don't get a chance to get off more than couple shots even with their 7 second duration.

 

I am at crossroads here, either you have made a nice build for her to kill level cap enemies in 3 seconds and steamroll everything and i respect that, or you talking completely out of your ass, just wanting to argue. And i am not sure which one is true.

 

I am only replying to comments in this thread of mine, because i am frustrated and i am disappointed about her new augment, that i was hyped about.

 

I am going to ignore the shorter reply you posted, as i my brain has hard time handling what the #*!% that was.

Just wanted to add, here is link to my build guide -> https://overframe.gg/build/491488/ in case you want to discuss about what you have done with your turret focused build.

 

[pisces13]

6 minutes ago, -DeathOverLord- said:

no, no thats just not it, my guy. Her turrets are one of the best single target abilities in the game. But her grenades cover such large area and kill enemies with slash procs fast enough that they truly are, single target. Her turrets are very good at clearing rooms too, but  her grenades deal damage trough walls and terrain, there is rarely a moment where you need to use turrets to clear trash mobs.

On my build my grenades cover 28 meter area per grenade and last for 30 seconds, and with the cast speed from archon shards there are tens if not hundreds of grenades all over the point i'm holding, i do up keep my turrets, but most of the time they don't get a chance to get off more than couple shots even with their 7 second duration.

 

I am at crossroads here, either you have made a nice build for her to kill level cap enemies in 3 seconds and steamroll everything and i respect that, or you talking completely out of your ass, just wanting to argue. And i am not sure which one is true.

 

I am only replying to comments in this thread of mine, because i am frustrated and i am disappointed about her new augment, that i was hyped about.

 

I am going to ignore the shorter reply you posted, as i my brain has hard time handling what the #*!% that was.

Just wanted to add, here is link to my build guide -> https://overframe.gg/build/491488/ in case you want to discuss about what you have done with your turret focused build.

 

Are you ingame right now? Let me show you what I mean.

[-DeathOverLord-]

1 minute ago, pisces13 said:

Are you ingame right now? Let me show you what I mean.

Yes sir, already gave my info earlier^^

[GPrime96]

21 hours ago, Kacc said:

slash not ignoring armor 0_0

When the slash source already have very low damage, the armor ignore dosen’t matter

[pisces13]

4 minutes ago, -DeathOverLord- said:

Yes sir, already gave my info earlier^^

Add pisces13. It says you are offline 

[GPrime96]

1 hour ago, pisces13 said:

Guy, you dont need her 4 to stay alive. Just because you're trash using her base kit doesn't mean it sucks for everyone. If you like terrify, use it. If we like temporal anchor, we will use it. The augment is beast. And you suck. Simple.

Her shield grenades is exactly why her 4 is obsolete for keeping you alive

[pisces13]

1 minute ago, GPrime96 said:

Her shield grenades is exactly why her 4 is obsolete for keeping you alive

I use both sir

[GPrime96]

18 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

The fact that the augment scales with ability power is great though, and between the turrets and the grenades there's significant stripping happening if you build with enough power/duration.

If only strength makes as much of a impact to her abilities as Duration outside of max slow Gloom memes

[pisces13]

40 minutes ago, GPrime96 said:

If only strength makes as much of a impact to her abilities as Duration outside of max slow Gloom memes

Build for both duration and power with a bit of range. Gloom is...yuck. It really isn't a terrible augment.

[CrownOfShadows]

I'm back after playing a lot of it.

So my average-joe Protea build looks a like the one the other guy posted, balancing range, duration and strength as much as possible.

With the augment though, I just ended up going full strength and duration and squeezed just a little range in but not much. It's very strong, it melts everything even eximus, and it's a terrific alternative playstyle for her. I kinda love it no lie. A couple downsides:

1. Due to lack of mod room, to make it really work I had to sacrifice something, and that was survivability, so it's a weird sort of fragile. Alone, it's not great, you can get caught between energy lows, anchor reversals, and overshield drops sometimes, and then you can insta-die. With any kind of a team mate (or specter) it just rolls and rolls and melts everything though. No lie, in a group, I think I would actually run this version, especially if I can figure out a way to sneak in just a smidge of survivability for her in there. Kinda need a 3rd arcane. Hm. Really hate to drop the one range mod but maybe that's the price. Is it better than roar? Honestly, idk, maybe not - but it's very good.
2. Protea's kit is very active even normally. Temporal Anchor is likewise built for ability spam. That's pretty fun, but after awhile, you get tired of spamming. I have the same issue with Hildryn. Even tho Hildryn's very strong, the amount of spam needed to sustain her gets to me to the point where I actually refuse to pick her. This Anchor build is even worse, because you aren't just sustaining, you're trying to cram as many ability casts as possible into every anchor. That's fine for like a mobile defense or a 15 wave defense even, but doing that in a long survival actually made my hands hurt like no other frame. Because of this, I don't know that it will be my default build, but it's still a ton of fun.

Fun little note: she refunds expended ammo in her Anchor right - and that applies to Incarnons too - IF you don't exit incarnon mode you get the whole incarnon mag back. What this means is that you never need to leave incarnon mode :) Just thought I'd throw that out there.

EDIT: I guess I should specify that I'm not trying to level cap or anything, I'm just running around killing everything in the upper SP. If I can get her in the circuit I'll see what that's like, but the survivability sacrifice did hurt a little already.

Edited July 31, 2023 by CrownOfShadows

[-DeathOverLord-]

2 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

I'm back after playing a lot of it.

So my average-joe Protea build looks a like the one the other guy posted, balancing range, duration and strength as much as possible.

With the augment though, I just ended up going full strength and duration and squeezed just a little range in but not much. It's very strong, it melts everything even eximus, and it's a terrific alternative playstyle for her. I kinda love it no lie. A couple downsides:

1. Due to lack of mod room, to make it really work I had to sacrifice something, and that was survivability, so it's a weird sort of fragile. Alone, it's not great, you can get caught between energy lows, anchor reversals, and overshield drops sometimes, and then you can insta-die. With any kind of a team mate (or specter) it just rolls and rolls and melts everything though. No lie, in a group, I think I would actually run this version, especially if I can figure out a way to sneak in just a smidge of survivability for her in there. Kinda need a 3rd arcane. Hm. Really hate to drop the one range mod but maybe that's the price. Is it better than roar? Honestly, idk, maybe not - but it's very good.
2. Protea's kit is very active even normally. Temporal Anchor is likewise built for ability spam. That's pretty fun, but after awhile, you get tired of spamming. I have the same issue with Hildryn. Even tho Hildryn's very strong, the amount of spam needed to sustain her gets to me to the point where I actually refuse to pick her. This Anchor build is even worse, because you aren't just sustaining, you're trying to cram as many ability casts as possible into every anchor. That's fine for like a mobile defense or a 15 wave defense even, but doing that in a long survival actually made my hands hurt like no other frame. Because of this, I don't know that it will be my default build, but it's still a ton of fun.

Fun little note: she refunds expended ammo in her Anchor right - and that applies to Incarnons too - IF you don't exit incarnon mode you get the whole incarnon mag back. What this means is that you never need to leave incarnon mode :) Just thought I'd throw that out there.

EDIT: I guess I should specify that I'm not trying to level cap or anything, I'm just running around killing everything in the upper SP. If I can get her in the circuit I'll see what that's like, but the survivability sacrifice did hurt a little already.

This is probably my last comment in this thread for personal reasons, but i just wanted to include something about circuit, as you mentioned. Circuit is a joke with protea, one of the best frames to carry you up and beyond level cap, and that was before her augment, so she does not need it at all. There are so many decrees that scale her grenades slash proc damage and then there are so many decrees to scale her turrets damage beyond absurd. And roar double dips as a more multiplier on her slash and ignite procs. Even defense waves with 700 million level 9999 eximus units become a joke, you truly cannot lose, as long as you pay attention. And it makes no difference what weapons you get, take un modded weapons and you still reach level cap in circuit.

Ya'll can reach me in discord @ captainoverlord or in game @ -DeathOverLord- 

[CrownOfShadows]

2 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Fun little note: she refunds expended ammo in her Anchor right - and that applies to Incarnons too - IF you don't exit incarnon mode you get the whole incarnon mag back. What this means is that you never need to leave incarnon mode :) Just thought I'd throw that out there.

EDIT: I guess I should specify that I'm not trying to level cap or anything, I'm just running around killing everything in the upper SP. If I can get her in the circuit I'll see what that's like, but the survivability sacrifice did hurt a little already.

Hmmm, update on this Incarnon note - it oddly does not seem to work for all incarnons. It does for some, but not all.

Also, I'm here after running Circuit with her. I don't have the patience or the knowledge to level cap in the circuit, I tend to tap out when they hit lvl 1300 or so, for context. But running my Erosion Anchor build worked well. It was safer than I anticipated, and rather than survival issues I ran into energy issues. IDK my turrets are 2-shotting thrax though, so that's nice. I'd post my build, but I know people would just make fun of it :) The forums kinda suck.

[-DeathOverLord-]

2 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Hmmm, update on this Incarnon note - it oddly does not seem to work for all incarnons. It does for some, but not all.

Also, I'm here after running Circuit with her. I don't have the patience or the knowledge to level cap in the circuit, I tend to tap out when they hit lvl 1300 or so, for context. But running my Erosion Anchor build worked well. It was safer than I anticipated, and rather than survival issues I ran into energy issues. IDK my turrets are 2-shotting thrax though, so that's nice. I'd post my build, but I know people would just make fun of it :) The forums kinda suck.

Forums can be a treacherous place, my dm's are always open for theorycrafting or anything else :)

Take care, brother.

[Hexerin]

11 hours ago, -DeathOverLord- said:

On my build my grenades cover 28 meter area per grenade

You would need a total of 560% range (so 460% from mods) to get the vortex to 28m radius.

Unless you mean diameter, in which case you would need 280% range (180% from mods) to get a 28m diameter.

11 hours ago, -DeathOverLord- said:

Just wanted to add, here is link to my build guide -> https://overframe.gg/build/491488/ in case you want to discuss about what you have done with your turret focused build.

Neither of which you have in this build you linked.

[-DeathOverLord-]

10 hours ago, Hexerin said:

You would need a total of 560% range (so 460% from mods) to get the vortex to 28m radius.

Unless you mean diameter, in which case you would need 280% range (180% from mods) to get a 28m diameter.

Neither of which you have in this build you linked.

Yep. that was my bad, in the heat of the moment i accidentally mixed up duration and range. Their actual range is 9.5meters per grenade (times three per throw, depending on angle and distance you throw them at)

But hey, at least you can calculate percentages :pepethumb:

[PR1D3]

On 2023-07-27 at 11:52 PM, Dreadlox said:

My brother of Christ, you literally get an armor ripper and her 4th let you spam the armor rip, what morr you want?:D One button kill?

Yes. Unironically that’s what segments of the player base want. A return to that mindlessness. Welcome to the Warframe community. Where a large majority of “feedback” are low iq ramblings of people who treat this game like a job,  vehemently invalidates anything that literally can’t one tap enemies who’s levels are in the thousands(which most of the player base never encounters), &/or requires more than 1 button press. Anything more would cause their failure rate to skyrocket.

[Zeclem]

On 2023-07-31 at 1:26 PM, pisces13 said:

Anyone who thinks temporal erosion isn't a good augment is just straight up bad. Please don't call yourself a protea main.

The augment literally gives you an extra layer of protection and strips armor. With her 4th ability you can cancel it before the rewind activates. Just hold 4 before it hits zero. Is that hard? The augment allows her turrets to shred Draker manic bombards in sp in less than 3 seconds. These are one of the tankiest enemies in the game. More tanky than corrupted heavy units.

So now grenade fans strip armor, her turrets strip armor. And she doesnt even need to use helminth anymore. Whats all this nonsense complaining about.

the augment "literally" does not give you any layer of protection, it just gives you armor strip. and if you just want armor strip, there are better skills. styanax's 2 does it way quicker, heals you (which procs the archon strength mod) and also removes shields. fireblast, terrify and pillage or some other options as well, and none of these require a mod slot to actually do it and are way cheaper on your energy stores. you can have your turrets kill those bombards way quicker with these options and won't need to deal with the weirdly off place ability that is temporal anchor. 

"not needing helminth" is not really an advantage either. its just another feature of the game. 

[sunderthefirmament]

16 hours ago, PR1D3 said:

Yes. Unironically that’s what segments of the player base want. A return to that mindlessness. Welcome to the Warframe community. Where a large majority of “feedback” are low iq ramblings of people who treat this game like a job,  vehemently invalidates anything that literally can’t one tap enemies who’s levels are in the thousands(which most of the player base never encounters), &/or requires more than 1 button press. Anything more would cause their failure rate to skyrocket.

Sure, but there's also legitimate critique of Protea's 4, augment included or not, in this thread.  If you build for duration, the rewind pulls you out of the fight for an absurd length of time, assuming it even works.  The ability is famously glitchy.

 

Augments should be about opportunity cost, among other things.  Build tension is a good thing for the game.  But Protea's 4 is really, really clunky and unreliable.  Stapling some armor strip to it just seems like a blatant attempt on DE's part to get us to use this neglected ability that was probably incredibly expensive to create.  It reminds me of Yareli, honestly.  I can only theorize at this, but I feel like one reason DE decided to give us a K Drive frame was because the whole K Drive system was massively expensive to make and almost no one interacts with it.  Sunk cost fallacy, the frame, if you will.

 

The biggest problem with Protea's 4 is that what makes it cool and expensive, the rewind, is also what makes it clunky and bad.  It's a cool idea on paper, but it doesn't often play out well in game.  I don't use Helminth on Protea though.  The only time I've found her 4 useful is in saving my spot in a mission when some eximus drops a riven sliver 3 rooms back or something.  You can't even carry power cells or other objective items with it, so any use it would have for excavation or Kuva Fortress Assault are dead before they even arrive.

[Leqesai]

On 2023-07-31 at 8:25 AM, CrownOfShadows said:

I'm back after playing a lot of it.

So my average-joe Protea build looks a like the one the other guy posted, balancing range, duration and strength as much as possible.

With the augment though, I just ended up going full strength and duration and squeezed just a little range in but not much. It's very strong, it melts everything even eximus, and it's a terrific alternative playstyle for her. I kinda love it no lie. A couple downsides:

1. Due to lack of mod room, to make it really work I had to sacrifice something, and that was survivability, so it's a weird sort of fragile. Alone, it's not great, you can get caught between energy lows, anchor reversals, and overshield drops sometimes, and then you can insta-die. With any kind of a team mate (or specter) it just rolls and rolls and melts everything though. No lie, in a group, I think I would actually run this version, especially if I can figure out a way to sneak in just a smidge of survivability for her in there. Kinda need a 3rd arcane. Hm. Really hate to drop the one range mod but maybe that's the price. Is it better than roar? Honestly, idk, maybe not - but it's very good.
2. Protea's kit is very active even normally. Temporal Anchor is likewise built for ability spam. That's pretty fun, but after awhile, you get tired of spamming. I have the same issue with Hildryn. Even tho Hildryn's very strong, the amount of spam needed to sustain her gets to me to the point where I actually refuse to pick her. This Anchor build is even worse, because you aren't just sustaining, you're trying to cram as many ability casts as possible into every anchor. That's fine for like a mobile defense or a 15 wave defense even, but doing that in a long survival actually made my hands hurt like no other frame. Because of this, I don't know that it will be my default build, but it's still a ton of fun.

Fun little note: she refunds expended ammo in her Anchor right - and that applies to Incarnons too - IF you don't exit incarnon mode you get the whole incarnon mag back. What this means is that you never need to leave incarnon mode :) Just thought I'd throw that out there.

EDIT: I guess I should specify that I'm not trying to level cap or anything, I'm just running around killing everything in the upper SP. If I can get her in the circuit I'll see what that's like, but the survivability sacrifice did hurt a little already.

Wait... temporal anchor refunds incarnon ammo?

What....