Arcane Sure Footed

[Silligoose]

9 hours ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

I don't see why they would make that, primed sure footed already exists 

Same reason they have Arcanes for extra weapon damage, frame stat boosts etc. To incentivize the play of content and money.

[(PSN)S1ckS1deSold1er-]

7 hours ago, emmyemi said:

Is this (partly) why I see people praising PSF so often? Because personally unless an ability FORCES me to go to the ground, as very few do, I'm usually either aim gliding or sliding while casting long abilities. This works with a vast majority of abilities and lets you stay mobile during pretty much any casting animation, even if you normally would be forced to stand still while casting it.

Super useful for staying out of the line of fire while keeping crucial abilities active.

If people are praising it more recently then it is because knockdown & stagger have become alot more prevalent. Even in my short few years with the game I would say the amount of enemies who can do it have doubled, and alot of them from out of nowhere. And Arcane Nullifier is getting more praise because of the amount of Magnetic procs almost tripling.

I too often cast Abilities while on the move or aim-gliding. Even those are risky now with the Eximus who can plant their pools in the air, tracking your movements and predicting where you will be. But as you are moving you have a chance at least to avoid it. Some Frames you literally cannot do this with, you are forced to cast in your spot on the ground, or pulled down to the ground when you cast. Which Frames they are I can't remember off the top of my head, but I know them as soon as I play them again. If you time your cast right you can avoid the knockdown of say an Arson Eximus albeit still getting the Heat proc. Sadly this isn't always the case though, or there are often multiple other enemies just waiting to get you right after. People have said how CC Frames have suffered with the Eximus change, but so have static casting Frames aswell.

[(PSN)S1ckS1deSold1er-]

6 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Because who would bother to look around to have a notion of their surroundings in an action game right?

It is a Horde shooter with less & less ways of dealing with Hordes. The introduction of Overguard is an example of this. Enemies spawn in mass numbers, you can't look everywhere at once. And you can't see through doors or walls, and often get hit by knockdown or stagger right as you go through because there is an enemy behind it who instantly catches you, like an Arson Eximus getting its Ability off.

I have recently noticed a bug in Duviri where some enemy markers on mini-map are massively huge. I thought this was a deliberate change to let me know it was an enemy of high threat, like an Eximus, until I got to it and it was just a usual trash mob.

[(PSN)S1ckS1deSold1er-]

6 hours ago, Naroxas44 said:

Technically under the "ability" portion you mentioned but I wanted to specifically name this one as I didn't see it anywhere yet - Unairu Poise also exists and grants immunity to slow, stagger, and knockdown effects, at max rank being 40s. It's not time gated by login rewards and can be integrated into any build just by pressing the transference buttons rapidly, no arcane / mod slot or anything necessary.

As much as it would be a nice QoL sort of thing for an arcane to resist knockdowns / staggers, it really isn't necessary when PSF (and sure footed) is an exilius mod and can be slotted in addition to the rest of the build in most cases (given one has the mod capacity). There's also many other mods that naturally fit endurance builds, like rolling guard, that provide both damage and status immunities, in addition to the explanation of Poise I listed above. I just don't think there's a super high demand for it when we have a ton of different ways to already achieve knockdown and various status immune states (though abilities, mods, and even just parkour), and it would just be competing for space in the arcane pool or provide little use for a lot of builds that could utilize other arcanes in a more efficient manner.

But then people are trading out a Mod slot for a Focus School. These can also be vital to a build. I don't want Unairu in every Loadout.

Your other suggestions are also factoring into my other points about them taking up Mod slots when they are more needed than Arcane slots on some of my builds. And vice-versa.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

48 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Same reason they have Arcanes for extra weapon damage, frame stat boosts etc. To incentivize the play of content and money.

Those have different activation methods and bonuses though, if OP suggested something like: "On knockdown: Apply 3 random status effects on enemies in 15m and grant x% knockdown resistance for 20 seconds" 

That is something I could see them adding but not an arcane that gives the same effect of knockdown immunity passively like PSF.

[quxier]

29 minutes ago, (PSN)S1ckS1deSold1er- said:

If people are praising it more recently then it is because knockdown & stagger have become alot more prevalent. Even in my short few years with the game I would say the amount of enemies who can do it have doubled, and alot of them from out of nowhere. And Arcane Nullifier is getting more praise because of the amount of Magnetic procs almost tripling.

Do you mean enemies that can knockdown/stagger or just that player get staggered/knocked-down more often?

I don't know numbers of enmies so I can only doubt.

However getting knockdown and staggered gets A LOT less prevalent. Have you ever played infested without status immunity of some sort (knockdown & stagger immunity)? That were hell. Ancient can hook you (sorry for the pun) with cheating ability. Yes, slowed down to (almost) maximus, not even turning back to you, their hook will catch you. Add few Ancient per room and you will be hooked (badum tss). Nowadays you can just roll or bullet jump (afair).

  

30 minutes ago, (PSN)S1ckS1deSold1er- said:

7 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Because who would bother to look around to have a notion of their surroundings in an action game right?

It is a Horde shooter with less & less ways of dealing with Hordes. The introduction of Overguard is an example of this.

Yet you are expected to kill any enemy as fast as possible. Overguard? You cannot CC it with lot of sources. The sources that works might not be the greatest. You can just outdamage them in most cases. So it's still horde shooter.

1 minute ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

55 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Same reason they have Arcanes for extra weapon damage, frame stat boosts etc. To incentivize the play of content and money.

Those have different activation methods and bonuses though, if OP suggested something like: "On knockdown: Apply 3 random status effects on enemies in 15m and grant x% knockdown resistance for 20 seconds" 

That is something I could see them adding but not an arcane that gives the same effect of knockdown immunity passively like PSF.

Seeing some arcanes I could see it as "5% knockdown resistance" or just some overly complex requirement. Look at:

Quote

Arcane Double Back

Gain +25% damage resistance for 4s per Dodge, Double Jump and Bullet Jump. Stacks up to 3x.

75% & 4 seconds sounds fine, right? Not when you have to do all 3 actions.

[Silligoose]

10 hours ago, (PSN)S1ckS1deSold1er- said:

There seems to be no 'Ideas' area to post this so I have put it as a General Discussion.

I think it would be quite nice to have an Arcane Sure Footed. At Rank 1 you get 20% chance to resist knockdown (And stagger?), at Rank 2 40%, Rank 3 60%, Rank 4 80%, until you cap it at Rank 5 with 100%.

With some of my builds they need the extra Mod slot when Arcanes don't matter all that much, and vice-versa.

I also think it would benefit players who can't log-in that often to reach the minimum of 400 days just for the first chance to get PSF. Some people may get the chance to play once or twice a week, some even less, yet play as much as possible. I don't feel they should be at a disadvantage. Once a week to reach 400 days is nearly 8yrs. There could even be people who have played since launch and not reached this.

The regular version only offers 60%. Couple that with Power Drift and you are at 90%, but perhaps using a slot you would rather not waste it on. Adding Fortitude aswell would take you to 110%, but again it is another slot.

I believe the resistance to knockdown & stagger is needed now more than ever with how frequent they have become in this game. Couple that with the all too often offending magnetic procs and you can be rag-dolled with a wonky interference screen. I had it happen with the recent Recall Ten Zero, and it was awful. My Nekros had 20 capped energy so I couldn't summon my minions to prevent this.

I personally really dislike options such as PSF and various abilities that (almost, in the case of PSF) completely negate enemy knockdowns, exist. It nullifies a mechanic that serves to make different enemies interesting and by extent serves to diversify gameplay.

I understand the frustration in getting knocked down often, or even experiencing knockdown chains, but that comes down to the devs' failure to balance the mechanic properly.

I'd rather see them balance enemy knockdown mechanics and instances better, eliminate knockdown immunity mechanics, replacing it with either lower resistance numbers, or faster recovery, or conditional immunity eg one is immune to knockdowns for x seconds after being knocked down (via Arcane on reworked knockdown resistance mechanics). This is DE though, so hoping for this is even more far-fetched than hoping for an Incarnon Genesis weapon that has all talents bug-free at release.

 

@(XBOX)C11H22O11 Fair enough. 

[sunderthefirmament]

8 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Because who would bother to look around to have a notion of their surroundings in an action game right?

You have been playing long enough to know that’s not good enough. Minions teleport all the time.

 

And Warframe is infamous for spawning enemies from all angles. 
 

Nah, I stand by what I said. PSF is among the best defensive mods in the game.  The self stagger immunity is also a great way to counter the BS DE puts players through on the regular (enemy spawns effectively invalidating cover and positioning, allies blocking shots).  There’s nothing wrong with putting in a conditional arcane version that dedicated players could farm early instead of facing 400 logins. 

[traybong111]

22 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

I'd rather see them balance enemy knockdown mechanics and instances better, eliminate knockdown immunity mechanics, replacing it with either lower resistance numbers, or faster recovery, or conditional immunity eg one is immune to knockdowns for x seconds after being knocked down (via Arcane on reworked knockdown resistance mechanics). This is DE though, so hoping for this is even more far-fetched than hoping for an Incarnon Genesis weapon that has all talents bug-free at release.

So the thing is, we already have innate immunity to knockdown after a knockdown. It lasts for 2 seconds at base and I believe the only mod that affects this specific duration is Anticipation, a Conclave-exclusive mod I wouldn't mind yeeting out of existence and incorporate into a new default in both PvE and PvP. 

The 2 seconds immunity window did help before, even if it didn't always prevent a KD chain inside certain geometries. However, after self-damage/stagger changes, what the game counts as the start and end of a "knockdown" period and the subsequent immunity also changed and I think that's one of the reasons why people feel KD is more irritating and frequent than normal. 

To be fair, like any action game there are already various maneuvers to resist knockdowns in Warframe--rolling is one, casting certain abilities with the right timing is one, melee block is one, etc. To add to your suggestions, I think it'd be more satisfying for players if the timing on those maneuvers were a bit more generous, so instead of PSF or mods or Arcanes passively nullifying knockdowns, players get to feel that they actively and skillfully avoided a CC attempt. 

[Silligoose]

5 minutes ago, traybong111 said:

So the thing is, we already have innate immunity to knockdown after a knockdown. It lasts for 2 seconds at base and I believe the only mod that affects this specific duration is Anticipation, a Conclave-exclusive mod I wouldn't mind yeeting out of existence and incorporate into a new default in both PvE and PvP. 

The 2 seconds immunity window did help before, even if it didn't always prevent a KD chain inside certain geometries. However, after self-damage/stagger changes, what the game counts as the start and end of a "knockdown" period and the subsequent immunity also changed and I think that's one of the reasons why people feel KD is more irritating and frequent than normal. 

To be fair, like any action game there are already various maneuvers to resist knockdowns in Warframe--rolling is one, casting certain abilities with the right timing is one, melee block is one, etc. To add to your suggestions, I think it'd be more satisfying for players if the timing on those maneuvers were a bit more generous, so instead of PSF or mods or Arcanes passively nullifying knockdowns, players get to feel that they actively and skillfully avoided a CC attempt. 

I'm not familiar with the 2 second immunity-after-knockdown mechanic. I'll look into it thank you.

While I do have some setups that make use of PSF, I generally run without it, because I find using the other mechanics, such as rolling or an ability to counter knockdowns, very satisfying. I would love for DE to reward active and skilful gameplay more and like your suggestion. Mechanics such as that can lead to more satisfying moments in missions, whereas immunity doesn't really have the same impact in terms of satisfaction in my opinion.

[Metalgearfox]

15 hours ago, (PSN)S1ckS1deSold1er- said:

There seems to be no 'Ideas' area to post this so I have put it as a General Discussion.

I think it would be quite nice to have an Arcane Sure Footed. At Rank 1 you get 20% chance to resist knockdown (And stagger?), at Rank 2 40%, Rank 3 60%, Rank 4 80%, until you cap it at Rank 5 with 100%.

With some of my builds they need the extra Mod slot when Arcanes don't matter all that much, and vice-versa.

I also think it would benefit players who can't log-in that often to reach the minimum of 400 days just for the first chance to get PSF. Some people may get the chance to play once or twice a week, some even less, yet play as much as possible. I don't feel they should be at a disadvantage. Once a week to reach 400 days is nearly 8yrs. There could even be people who have played since launch and not reached this.

The regular version only offers 60%. Couple that with Power Drift and you are at 90%, but perhaps using a slot you would rather not waste it on. Adding Fortitude aswell would take you to 110%, but again it is another slot.

I believe the resistance to knockdown & stagger is needed now more than ever with how frequent they have become in this game. Couple that with the all too often offending magnetic procs and you can be rag-dolled with a wonky interference screen. I had it happen with the recent Recall Ten Zero, and it was awful. My Nekros had 20 capped energy so I couldn't summon my minions to prevent this.

I think that any sure footed mods should also reactive self-damage on AoE weapons by the same % that they offer knock down resist.

[----Legacy----]

14 hours ago, Pakaku said:

If you want it as an arcane, then it needs to have catches like an arcane does, conditions to activate it and stuff like that. Maybe immune to more than just knockdowns. Doing that would also leave the mod alone as a standalone, always-active Sure Footed mod

Make it 15 seconds of status immunity with a 5 seconds cooldown...

The trigger?

Being staggered or knocked down (only external sources trigger the effect)

Edited August 13, 2023 by ----Legacy----

[(PSN)Unstar]

20 hours ago, (PSN)S1ckS1deSold1er- said:

I believe the resistance to knockdown & stagger is needed now more than ever with how frequent they have become in this game.

Honestly if things have reached the point where resistance to knockdown & stagger are needed, then mods and arcanes that resist them are just band-aids.  The real solution in such a situation would be to adjust the frequency with which such effects occur so that they are a meaningful hazard to be avoided but not something that requires actively building immunity to.

[Surbusken]

You also have the option of using Titania's 1, Spellbind, to gain status immunity, through helminth.

I am not sure if other similar abilities also block stagger and knockdown, such as Nezha's Fire Walker. And also Wyrm's Negate might also work for status immunity.