Abyss of Dagath - Dev Workshop: System Changes and General Quality of Life

[AegidiusF]

We finally got an answer about Overshields interacting with shield gate :

 

 

[Ghastly-Ghoul]

15 hours ago, SmokinDice said:

Sadly you completely missed the mark here.

This was THE opportunity to finally, easily and elegantly adress the main issue with the games gameplay... health survivability.

You buffed Shieldgating, and gave players EVEN MORE reason to go with shieldgating. Yet a vast majority of the playerbase thinks health tanking already is JUST trash. And while I dont agree with that mindset and tend to play many health tanks successfully and find it much more enjoyable, there is NO denying that health and armor become almost irrelevant on their own in higher levels.

Currently there are two states you as a player can be in in warframe, alive at 100% health or dead.

there is no inbetween, there is no gameplay in managing your health, there is no sense of danger, no sense of "oh damn my health got low better heal up". You are either set up to never die, or you get oneshot. And one of the main reasons I haven't played much in the last 2 years is that this issue has become more and more extreme to a level where even I fall back to shieldgating more often than I like to admit.

 

and it is so funny and sad a the same time to me that you write "This outcome is a significant buff, which is not the intention of this system change. ".. no.. because JUST increasing it by this tiny amount doesn't even qualify as a buff, it would be a meaningless increase.. 100% more basehealth across the board wouldn't even change much in high levels..

this is such an unelegant and visually ugly solution.. why 370? 300 was a clean number, 370 is just a random number to fit your outcome. AT LEAST make it an elegant 400 and dont even think about it as beeing a buff but rather just visually pleasing and non-random.

 

The update could have come with this exact change "Rank 30 Excalibur now receive an extra 1,320 Health from max rank Vitality, resulting in a total health stat of 1,600." and health tanking from this point onward would at least feel somewhat comparable to shieldgating.
Now I know, and you know, that the real issue is every scaling in warframe right now, but with the bandaid status we are in until a complete rework of all defences and health and damage scaling issues. Just flat out increasing our health by about 100% would at least show that you care for anything other than shieldgating and having 90% DR.

 

For everyone reading this who doesn't understand how math works and might think Im insane. increasing health from 740 to 1600 on excal is a 116% effective health increase for 216% effective health. But 90% DR from ANY of the bandaid abilities actually gives you 1000% effective health! and this is the BASELINE the game requires you to have to live for more than a second right now. 95% DR, what some abilities have, dont make you 5% more surviable, compared to a 90% DR it DOUBLES your effective health from 1000% to 2000%, the higher you go, the more insane it gets.

So by "just" a tiny tiny increase of double base health you actually dont even change that much.... and yes, ofcourse together WITH DR it would also result in turning 90% DR right now into basically the same as 95% DR, BUT STILL even with this you die in 2 second.... so actually giving you a bigger base health pool would AT LEAST visually help preparring you for the damage you recieve and MAYBE finally enable a sense of danger and actual health managing again, instead of just beein a binary system of dead or alive...

 

I'd MUCH rather see a high level excalibur at 3000 health, with DR abilities capped at 60% (7500 effective health) instead of a 740 health excalibur with 90% DR  (7400 effective health).

and according to what I just said before.. we would honestly still need more DR to make health tanking a viable alternative to shieldgating with the games current state.. non the less, this change would at least result in a healthbar you can see go up and down maybe.. ofcourse this would need testing, but still, health managing is a GOOD THING in a video game.. Warframes needs this again...

 

EDIT: Also, you just set the best example yourself with the release of kullervo. Just look at how well recieved he is now. why is he SO much fun now? because you have REAL gameplay with him, you actually have to manage his health. And how is this possible? well because he has 20.000 health. THATS what it takes to have compelling gameplay again, a healthpool that you can visually see go down and do something against. yet there are still people who argue and think he is squishy, and yes, he still dies within seconds if not careful. He is the prime example that we need more health as a bandaid until we get a full rework of the entire system. Make Health matter again. And deep inside myself I hope Kullervo was a test for you to see if people like more health.. if so, the answer is YES! YES we need more health! (for now)

I'm pretty sure the "[non]elegant" numbers for stats are made that way to accommodate newer players who pick up said frame while in the normal star chart. The stat changes will be felt there.

[Qriist]

1 hour ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

We finally got an answer about Overshields interacting with shield gate :

 

 

loool that's like the worst of all possible worlds for the people who swear by shieldgating as their sole means of survival.

[Qriist]

I've made a thread that's probably only of interest to me.

 

[Traumtulpe]

8 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

We finally got an answer about Overshields interacting with shield gate

Well that's unfortunate. So while shield gating will indeed be buffed on release, DE is going to nerf it 1-2 months from now.

All that changes is that the Decaying Dragon Key is now a mod though. And hey, Revenant is still completely, permanently, perfectly invincible, so just play him I guess?

Edited October 18, 2023 by Traumtulpe

[Qriist]

1 minute ago, Traumtulpe said:

And hey, Revenant is still completely, permanently, perfectly invincible, so just play him I guess?

The amount of dead Revenants I see at every level of play is simply staggering.

[(PSN)rexis12]

9 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

We finally got an answer about Overshields interacting with shield gate :

 

 

I swear if SpeedVa came out today, they'd delete that in a fricking heart beat.

[Traumtulpe]

1 hour ago, Qriist said:

The amount of dead Revenants I see at every level of play is simply staggering.

I guess not falling asleep as Revenant *is* quite the challenge, and the chances of accidentally rolling your face over the Mesmer Skin button aren't high enough for 100% uptime.

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 2 heures, Traumtulpe a dit :

Well that's unfortunate. So while shield gating will indeed be buffed on release, DE is going to nerf it 1-2 months from now.

All that changes is that the Decaying Dragon Key is now a mod though. And hey, Revenant is still completely, permanently, perfectly invincible, so just play him I guess?

I totally agree with you.👍

And I can add that this will be a bit confusing for average players that do not follow the hotfixes and the news concerning the game. Their Harrow, Mag, Equinox, Volt... build will be very strong for a couple of weeks and then they will no more benefit from the overshields buff.

il y a une heure, Traumtulpe a dit :

I guess not falling asleep as Revenant *is* quite the challenge, and the chances of accidentally rolling your face over the Mesmer Skin button aren't high enough for 100% uptime.

Yes ! Totally that ! Most of the time, dead Revenants are just players that forgot to recast Mesmer Skin. It's the only "challenge" with Revenant.

Il y a 1 heure, (PSN)rexis12 a dit :

I swear if SpeedVa came out today, they'd delete that in a fricking heart beat.

😁  The worst part is that you may be rigth.

 

[Devilcrier]

On 2023-09-28 at 4:26 PM, (PSN)Sentiel said:

Ugh

My nicely rounded up values like having 1000 HP will be ruined by this.

My fake OCD suffers from these random ass numbers you use for stats.

Sounds like a petty personal problem kiddo.

[Traumtulpe]

I think following the changes (and future nerfs), all warframes that don't have tanking abilities will need to equip one shield related mod. It will be:

• Catalyzing Shields on most of them - this is old shield gating except you lose one mod.
• Redirection on frames that can restore shields and have 550+ base shield capacity. For a potentially longer shield gate, offsetting the typically longer cast times.

Frames without tanking abilities (or shield restore abilities) still won't find additional shields useful. Not getting shot for 10+ seconds per depleted shield (more than 50% of the time) is simply not an option, nor is investing 4+ mods plus archon shards just to power up your shield regeneration.

Personally I think this will restrict the variety of frames I'm willing to use. Shield gating was already expensive before - around 50 energy per second, your aura slot, the inability to mod for efficiency. Now its gonna cost me another mod slot on top? I think I'll have to decline that offer.

Looking forward to playing Revenant and Mag. Maybe some Ash. Maybe Zephyr if her abilities ever get fixed. Maybe Trinity. All those second rate frames with zero defenses while enemies have infinite damage? Nah, miss me with that from now on.

[Bioskop]

The Duviri Dailies will take longer than the weeklies to complete. Is that on purpose?

[[DE]Taylor]

Tenno, with Abyss of Dagath on the horizon and these changes soon to ship, I am locking this thread!

Please refer to our official update notes for the final iteration of this content (including updated Warframe ability stats!) and use our official Abyss of Dagath subforum to share your bugs and feedback.