Abyss of Dagath - Dev Workshop: System Changes and General Quality of Life

[Tiltskillet]

39 minutes ago, Terroriced said:

In high level gameplay even the standard bug variant will instantly kill Nezha, when the shieldgate isnt up, which makes health tanking inefficient way earlier than expected.

That I'm aware of.   I don't play true endurance though, so it's been really rare for me ever since DE fixed nuclear grenade damage.  

[Terroriced]

vor 24 Minuten schrieb Tiltskillet:

That I'm aware of.   I don't play true endurance though, so it's been really rare for me ever since DE fixed nuclear grenade damage.  

Grenades in Archon hunts do this consistently if my shields are down. Blitz Eximus too. Narmer enemies can do that too.

EE.log: 2144.945 Game [Info]: Terroriced was killed by 1,335 / 12,499 damage from a level 147 PNWNarmerFemaleGrineerAvatar399 using a PNWNarmerMaskPowerSuit

But I would call that Narmer ability scaling another separate bug too.

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb Terroriced:

Im currently recalculating if current numbers for the normal bug variant are still consistent with observations from previous years. So far it looks like they are and I need to edit my previous comment again.

I finished the investigation and can conclude that the old bug formula is still correct today.

(raw_damage - Warding_Halos_points) reduced by other sources of damage reduction for any hit that breaks Warding Halo instead of the intended 90% damage reduction. This bug often instantly kills Nezha.

Im just glad that all aspects of this bug are known and didnt change, which I hope can make it easier for players to communicate it and for the devs to fix it one day.

Here are my notes from todays testing, but they are not formatted to help explaining every step.

Spoiler

Warding Halo calculations post Duviri at 555 armor

 

 

Lvl 80 Ballista

No WH

1337 - 966 = 371 (1057.35 raw damage)

1337 - 780 = 557 (crit. multiplicator * 1,5)

WH intended

1337 – 1300 = 37 (10% of 371 (rounded))

WH at 179

1300 – 992 = 308 (877.8 raw damage – WH points)

è Consistent with formula

Lvl 100 Ballista

No WH

1337 - 821 = 516 (1470.6 raw damage) (516 / (1 - 555 / (555 + 300)) = 1470.6)

1337 - 563 = 774 (crit. multiplicator * 1,5)

WH intended

1337 – 1285 = 52 (10% of 516 (rounded))

WH at 20

1337 – 828 = 509 (1450.6 raw damage – WH points)

è Consistent with formula

 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Terroriced

[zork9900]

 

On 2023-09-28 at 9:02 AM, [DE]Taylor said:

ATLAS
Health: Base Rank - 170 (from 100) / Max Rank - 370 (from 300)
Shields: Base Rank - 170 (from 100) / Max Rank - 370 (from 300)
Armor: Base Rank - 475 (from 450)
Energy: Base Rank - 175 (from 150) / Max Rank - 225 (from 225)

ATLAS PRIME
Health: Base Rank - 450 (from 175) / Max Rank - 650 (from 525)
Shields: Base Rank - 355 (from 150) / Max Rank - 555 (from 450)
Armor: Base Rank - 500 (from 475)
Energy: Base Rank - 215 (from 175) / Max Rank - 265 (from 263)

(I don't really play atlas, so I am just noticing these stats now, looking at these changes, I know this is old news, I just assumed atlas prime was similar to other primes).

I hope atlas and similar frames get closer to their prime counterparts, I get that prime frames have more base stats, but atlas prime has almost double atlas's health which I think is WAY too much of an increase, especially on top of many other stat increases). Maybe normal atlas could be buffed to the 555 that wukong has (which is still less than atlas prime for everyone that always uses the argument "primes are supposed to be better"), so the stat increases are more in line with the other prime stat differences. It makes no sense that some prime frames have absurdly high stats compared to their non-prime variant, while others have practically none. Pick one, either make primes significantly better and make the game pay to win, or go with the minor stat increases, that min-maxers are going to pay for anyway.

I've always preferred using non-primed frames, and mostly just collecting prime frames, because everyone always defended the existence of prime access, by saying that the stat increases weren't really that relevant, so the game wasn't really pay to win (well, at least not in that way), and I would use normal frames as a way to show that you can you just use normal frames and defend the game because I don't think that prime frames should be significantly better, but these stat differences are absurd.

Also, weapons are different than frames, as they are supposed to be picked up and put down as you play the games, and most are mr locked. However no frames are mr locked anymore, and frames are more like classes in an mmo, or heroes in a hero shooter, they're not gear, so making a frames just straight up a better version of another frames is awful. Prime frames used to basically be cosmetics, that you could farm, with a little bonus, that didn't really matter, except maybe for min-maxers.

If excalibur prime had those stat increases, I would have never bought the founder pack, I would have immediately uninstalled the game because it's pay to win. I know other primes are farmable but still.

Since everyone's base stats are changing anyway, maybe use this as an opportunity to look at the base stats of some frames, although I know armor was looked at a while ago, there's no good reason that atlas prime should have that much of an increase over atlas. Some older frames including their prime variants might be able to use some minor adjustments to their stats as well, especially energy.

If these don't change now though, I hope atlas will get a rework/revisit soon where this happens, and to be honest I think a ton of frames could use mini-reworks, to keep up with how warframe has changed over time.

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 4 heures, Terroriced a dit :

I finished the investigation and can conclude that the old bug formula is still correct today.

(raw_damage - Warding_Halos_points) reduced by other sources of damage reduction for any hit that breaks Warding Halo instead of the intended 90% damage reduction. This bug often instantly kills Nezha.

Im just glad that all aspects of this bug are known and didnt change, which I hope can make it easier for players to communicate it and for the devs to fix it one day.

This is extremely helpful! 

Thank you very much. 👍

I've reported this bug at least twice a couple of years ago. 

It really needs to be fixed. 

[Psychic]

With the shield gating changes, I like the direction the team is going however I think many can agree that it can be really difficult to fit an additional mod for survivability (Catalyzing shields on top of brief respite and rolling guard.), on top of fitting an entire build for your abilities, and utility mods (vigorous swap/ casting speed.) and then for warframe Augment mods. Shield gating with a decaying dragon key meant you had a way of surviving in high level missions with just brief respite and rolling guard, allowing you to shift your warframe builds to be more centered around your abilities and utility. Health tank builds also had an innate disadvantage because slotting health armor and adaptation, and rolling guard for status cleanse (cleansing status in high level is absolutely mandatory if you want to stay alive) would only leave you with 4 slots for your build. Augments and utility would basically be impossible to slot at this point. I think it’s time that the discussion for the ability to increase the amount of mod slots be introduced, or atleast a warframe augment sub-slot. Not having warframe augment slots and requiring players to slot extra mods to stay alive just reduces build diversity. 
On another note, is there any conversation about taking a look at enemy damage scaling instead of solely focusing on shield gating? Buffing shield DR by 25% is not going to help at all. Most damage reduction builds fall off and become unusable past level 500, not to mention eximus units or damage dealt to players from status effects, which is what forced us to use shield gating and rolling guard in the first place. If the only option to survive is invulnerability phases, I believe that the problem may be with enemy damage/ Enemy status effect damage instead. And finally, A much better way to make shield builds more viable than just increasing shield DR from 25% to 50% would be to have shield damage reduction based on how much damage was mitigated during the shield gate window. Scaling modifiers is the direction we need to move into. Players should not be immortal, but they should die because they made a mistake, not because of random toxin/ blitz eximus units. 

[Qriist]

6 hours ago, Psychic said:

I think it’s time that the discussion for the ability to increase the amount of mod slots be introduced, or atleast a warframe augment sub-slot. Not having warframe augment slots and requiring players to slot extra mods to stay alive just reduces build diversity. 

My brother in 🦀, you are not alone! I have addressed this very point:

 

On 2023-02-23 at 6:08 PM, Qriist said:

My comment in this thread failed to lay out the logic undergirding it. That's on me. I'll correct that now.

I'm looking at this from a perspective of build diversity. You know the meme, everything evolves towards crab? Well here on Warframe, a decade's worth of progressively harder content has pushed everything to evolve a similar sameness because there are so few slots to work with.

Augment mods in particular have to do a LOT to slot in over Primed, Umbral, Corrupted, or Archon mods, which makes acquiring the vast majority of them little more than completionist fodder.

Forget frame-specific Augments though. When is the last time you've seen anyone on Steel Path use over 10% of their precious warframe mod slots on things that add personal playstyle flourishes to the build?

 

When is the last time you've seen someone add interesting effects to their weapons over and beyond bigger, redder numbers?

 

Even the post directly after mine, but before all of yours, addressed this sameness among weapon builds.  (bold emphasis mine)

He wasn't even talking to me, he was responding to someone else making an entirely different point. The sameness of weapon builds is so pervasive that Paeghis inadvertently bolstered my position before any of you chimed in to laugh at it.

That's just one particularly well-timed post.

Scrolling further up the very same page reveals others discussing aspects of what I'm seeking to address:

I'm not remotely suggesting any of the people I've quoted share my sentiments regarding a third mod row. I haven't asked them and frankly I don't care. What I am suggesting is that, to varying degrees, they see build diversity as an issue worth addressing even if that wasn't the main point of their own posts.

There are even massive other thread on this exact topic of gameplay personalization at the higher levels (again, emphasis mine):

All of that together means I am not the only one viewing the topic of same-ness in this light. If you have another suggestion for achieving the same goal I'm happy to entertain it, but until then: 🦀

 

[Hexerin]

10 hours ago, Psychic said:

With the shield gating changes, I like the direction the team is going however I think many can agree that it can be really difficult to fit an additional mod for survivability (Catalyzing shields on top of brief respite and rolling guard.), on top of fitting an entire build for your abilities, and utility mods (vigorous swap/ casting speed.) and then for warframe Augment mods. Shield gating with a decaying dragon key meant you had a way of surviving in high level missions with just brief respite and rolling guard, allowing you to shift your warframe builds to be more centered around your abilities and utility. Health tank builds also had an innate disadvantage because slotting health armor and adaptation, and rolling guard for status cleanse (cleansing status in high level is absolutely mandatory if you want to stay alive) would only leave you with 4 slots for your build. Augments and utility would basically be impossible to slot at this point. I think it’s time that the discussion for the ability to increase the amount of mod slots be introduced, or atleast a warframe augment sub-slot. Not having warframe augment slots and requiring players to slot extra mods to stay alive just reduces build diversity. 
On another note, is there any conversation about taking a look at enemy damage scaling instead of solely focusing on shield gating? Buffing shield DR by 25% is not going to help at all. Most damage reduction builds fall off and become unusable past level 500, not to mention eximus units or damage dealt to players from status effects, which is what forced us to use shield gating and rolling guard in the first place. If the only option to survive is invulnerability phases, I believe that the problem may be with enemy damage/ Enemy status effect damage instead. And finally, A much better way to make shield builds more viable than just increasing shield DR from 25% to 50% would be to have shield damage reduction based on how much damage was mitigated during the shield gate window. Scaling modifiers is the direction we need to move into. Players should not be immortal, but they should die because they made a mistake, not because of random toxin/ blitz eximus units. 

3 hours ago, Qriist said:

My brother in 🦀, you are not alone! I have addressed this very point:

 

 

This will (unfortunately) not be happening.

 

[Qriist]

59 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

This will (unfortunately) not be happening.

 

Well, at least he didn't pussyfoot around a decisive answer. Gotta hattip that!

 

Nevertheless... @[DE]Pablo: 🦀

[Hexerin]

1 hour ago, Qriist said:

Well, at least he didn't pussyfoot around a decisive answer. Gotta hattip that!

 

Nevertheless... @[DE]Pablo: 🦀

Yea, I've been seeing that Pablo doesn't screw around. Very direct and to the point, doesn't allow any false expectation or anything. "You know what you're getting" kind of guy. Which is great IMO, I relate very strongly to that and appreciate those who have the mental fortitude to carry themselves as such.

[(XBOX)ForsakenMoon13]

On 2023-10-09 at 6:28 PM, (PSN)Spider_Enigma said:

so what about the shop that ells arcanes and resources?

Literally addressed that shop further down in the same comment you're quoting part of...

[Famecans]

Hi, I'm here again, the annoying guy.

I read somewhere that there will be changes that facilitate the manufacture of Necramechs and one of these changes will be to remove ores obtained from old maps from the recipes; I think this aims to alleviate the difficulty of multi-farm locations however this is erroneous as the general difficulty of the problem is related to other future factors which I will list here.

Some recipes call for refined ores while other recipes call for the same RAW ores, these factors cause recipes that call for refined ores to steal resources from recipes that call for RAW ores and vice versa. The mitigation of this logistical difficulty is to make all ore recipes work only with refined ores.

Spoiler

The recipes depend on resources obtained in multi-locations and this is not a problem, in this case the recipe below depends on Necralisk and Orb-Vallis ores and this is fair as these factors give values and difficulty to the crafting and progression system. Mitigating this difficulty must be done by increasing spawn and obtaining these resources on the map or improving the mining system described below.

Spoiler

Mining is not a boring activity, but there are considerable visual stress factors; Basically the game's most up-to-date mining tool has interface markers and pins with transparencies that generate visual stress. The mitigation of this problem is to improve the visibility of these markers using the classic pins with dark edges and considerably increase the radar distance of the mining tool, the pin should appear within the maximum distance and disappear during use similar to what we have on the hunting weapon.

Spoiler

 

The mining tool circle challenge is perfect, however the interface has same visual problems as mining pins, the transparency creates visual difficulties when combined with warframe flashlight or specific spots of light. The mitigation for this issue is to rework the miner user interface and make it as visible as the Orb-Valis fishing system interface.

Spoiler

An average of 30% of ores are not generated correctly on the map and sometimes they are spawned in 3d objects breaking aesthetics and mining possibilities, this problem makes the mining tool beep like crazy, my OCD also tells me that that ore inside the rocks must be mined. mitigating this problem is to create specific rules for the ore spawn system, perhaps hitboxes for each ore or spawn grids that should not overlap mesh anomalies, perhaps a script can identify this invisible grid of spawn points, idk.

Spoiler

The textures of the ores are strange and do not correctly show the color of the jewel that will be extracted, red ores generate blue jewels, blue ores generate yellow jewels and yellow ores generate red jewels, I think it was supposed to be fun but this just causes cognitive mess for the average gamer. The mitigation of this difficulty is to associate the color of the ore with the color of the jewel that will be extracted and improve the visual aspect of the ore's texture with parallax occlusion.

Spoiler

thanks for reading👍

[Provy]

when 9999 in similacrum

[Hexerin]

21 minutes ago, Famecans said:

Hi, I'm here again, the annoying guy.

I read somewhere that there will be changes that facilitate the manufacture of Necramechs and one of these changes will be to remove ores obtained from old maps from the recipes; I think this aims to alleviate the difficulty of multi-farm locations however this is erroneous as the general difficulty of the problem is related to other future factors which I will list here.

Some recipes call for refined ores while other recipes call for the same RAW ores, these factors cause recipes that call for refined ores to steal resources from recipes that call for RAW ores and vice versa. The mitigation of this logistical difficulty is to make all ore recipes work only with refined ores.

  Reveal hidden contents

The recipes depend on resources obtained in multi-locations and this is not a problem, in this case the recipe below depends on Necralisk and Orb-Vallis ores and this is fair as these factors give values and difficulty to the crafting and progression system. Mitigating this difficulty must be done by increasing spawn and obtaining these resources on the map or improving the mining system described below.

  Reveal hidden contents

Mining is not a boring activity, but there are considerable visual stress factors; Basically the game's most up-to-date mining tool has interface markers and pins with transparencies that generate visual stress. The mitigation of this problem is to improve the visibility of these markers using the classic pins with dark edges and considerably increase the radar distance of the mining tool, the pin should appear within the maximum distance and disappear during use similar to what we have on the hunting weapon.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The mining tool circle challenge is perfect, however the interface has same visual problems as mining pins, the transparency creates visual difficulties when combined with warframe flashlight or specific spots of light. The mitigation for this issue is to rework the miner user interface and make it as visible as the Orb-Valis fishing system interface.

  Reveal hidden contents

An average of 30% of ores are not generated correctly on the map and sometimes they are spawned in 3d objects breaking aesthetics and mining possibilities, this problem makes the mining tool beep like crazy, my OCD also tells me that that ore inside the rocks must be mined. mitigating this problem is to create specific rules for the ore spawn system, perhaps hitboxes for each ore or spawn grids that should not overlap mesh anomalies, perhaps a script can identify this invisible grid of spawn points, idk.

  Reveal hidden contents

The textures of the ores are strange and do not correctly show the color of the jewel that will be extracted, red ores generate blue jewels, blue ores generate yellow jewels and yellow ores generate red jewels, I think it was supposed to be fun but this just causes cognitive mess for the average gamer. The mitigation of this difficulty is to associate the color of the ore with the color of the jewel that will be extracted and improve the visual aspect of the ore's texture with parallax occlusion.

  Reveal hidden contents

thanks for reading👍

They need to just remove the global RNG from mining. It should be "if you want X ore/gem, you go mine it in Y location" and then you always get that ore/gem from that area. This keeps the process of having to go out and mine up the resources you need for whatever you're crafting, but removes the headache of mining for hours in a spot but never getting the #*!%ing ore/gem you need because it keeps giving you everything else.

[jxfireruby]

While you're changing Nightwave missions, could you change the Void Armageddon Nightwave mission completion requirements to what's detailed here:

 

[HonorCandy]

Would be nice to have a renewable use for excess focus. Like maybe the ability to convert 1 million into XX void traces. currently just collecting posters to use as flooring.

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

On 2023-09-29 at 2:02 AM, [DE]Taylor said:

Expanding Kahl’s Garrison:
Kahl will now find additional weapons next to his fallen Brothers as a way to add more variety to his overall gameplay. Three different weapons will spawn randomly each time you play! 

• In Junk Run and Prison Break missions, you can find the following:
• Ogris
• Kundra (new shotgun found only in Break Narmer missions!)
• Ignis
• Tonkor
• Grinlok
• Jat Kittag

As for Sneaky Sabotage, since this mission has specific weapon restrictions, there are no plans to offer additional weapons to this mission at this time. 

Player interactions!

the choice of weapon Whilst playing!

different playstyles to the choice!

this would be an improvement if every mission in the games gave a chance for a stored weapon that could be picked up for the remainder of the mission

[drsnivy]

On 2023-09-29 at 7:16 AM, Amolistic. said:

OH ONESHOT IS INTERESTING. DEFINITELY INTERESTING. Go and touch some grass from vinland saga.

Archons are boring ass 'boss' fights, compared to jackal, ropa or exploiter or even profit-taker.

There is no engaging mechanics in the fight, they are JUST bullet sponges, now even more so. One shotting meant you could get the shard, and get out without being bored out of your mind doing z-dps because DE wants you to see how little effort they put into the fights.

Wow, Nira went invincible and the amalgam moa healed her because you didn't oneshot it frame one? so engaging and fun.

DE missed the point and the mark, the problem with archons isn't people oneshotting them to skip S#&$ design, it's that the bosses are so god damn boring and unengaging nobody would even want to NOT oneshot them.

[Hexerin]

1 hour ago, drsnivy said:

Archons are boring ass 'boss' fights, compared to jackal, ropa or exploiter or even profit-taker.

There is no engaging mechanics in the fight, they are JUST bullet sponges, now even more so. One shotting meant you could get the shard, and get out without being bored out of your mind doing z-dps because DE wants you to see how little effort they put into the fights.

Wow, Nira went invincible and the amalgam moa healed her because you didn't oneshot it frame one? so engaging and fun.

DE missed the point and the mark, the problem with archons isn't people oneshotting them to skip S#&$ design, it's that the bosses are so god damn boring and unengaging nobody would even want to NOT oneshot them.

I would say that Profit Taker is in the same boat. She's not an engaging fight in any way, in fact I'd argue that she's one of the most obnoxious fights in the game.

[Qriist]

6 hours ago, Hexerin said:

I would say that Profit Taker is in the same boat. She's not an engaging fight in any way, in fact I'd argue that she's one of the most obnoxious fights in the game.

Weird. I have an entirely different opinion; I think she's one of the more engaging fights.

[ArchAngel7774]

On 2023-09-28 at 12:02 PM, [DE]Taylor said:

While there may be significant changes to Warframe Stats and Mod values as a part of this overhaul, the end result is that your Builds should mostly stay the same. The key difference is the added clarity of what your Health / Shield / Energy / Armor Mods do in your Upgrade screens! 

This is only going to be true IF you use all the mods. For those of us that have build most our builds without directly modding survivability, it is looking like a huge shot in the foot.

[Qriist]

3 minutes ago, ArchAngel7774 said:

For those of us that have build most our builds without directly modding survivability, it is looking like a huge shot in the foot.

Congratulations, you're the target audience.

[Tiltskillet]

10 minutes ago, ArchAngel7774 said:

This is only going to be true IF you use all the mods. For those of us that have build most our builds without directly modding survivability, it is looking like a huge shot in the foot.

Do you mean "shot in the arm"?

[ArchAngel7774]

I guess I should have specified where that quote is from. The Archwing numbers are much lower at max rank now.

AMESHA
Health: Base Rank - 650 (from 400) / Max Rank - 900 (from 1200)
Shields: Base Rank - 220 (from 200) / Max Rank - 420 (from 600)
Armor: Base Rank - 195 (from 200)
Energy: Base Rank - 220 (from 200) / Max Rank - 270 (from 360)

ELYTRON
Health: Base Rank - 765 (from 450) / Max Rank - 1015 (from 1350)
Shields: Base Rank - 745 (from 450) / Max Rank - 945 (from 1350)
Armor: Base Rank - 145 (from 150)
Energy: Base Rank - 120 (from 125) / Max Rank - 170 (from 225)

ITZAL
Health: Base Rank - 200 (from 400) / Max Rank - 450 (from 600)
Shields: Base Rank - 220 (from 200) / Max Rank - 420 (from 600)
Armor: Base Rank - 50 (from 50)
Energy: Base Rank - 220 (from 200) / Max Rank - 270 (from 360)

ODONATA
Health: Base Rank - 425 (from 300) / Max Rank - 675 (from 900)
Shields: Base Rank - 430 (from 300) / Max Rank - 630 (from 900)
Armor: Base Rank - 100 (from 100)
Energy: Base Rank - 85 (from 100) / Max Rank - 135 (from 180)

ODONATA PRIME
Health: Base Rank - 650 (from 400) / Max Rank - 900 (from 1200)
Shields: Base Rank - 640 (from 400) / Max Rank - 840 (from 1200)
Armor: Base Rank - 100 (from 100)
Energy: Base Rank - 85 (from 100) / Max Rank - 135 (from 180)

 

Health is 2/3 of what it was

 

[Hexerin]

There's people who care about Archwing?

[SmokinDice]

On 2023-09-28 at 6:02 PM, [DE]Taylor said:

Rank 30 Excalibur would receive an extra 1,320 Health from max rank Vitality, resulting in a total health stat of 1,600. This outcome is a significant buff, which is not the intention of this system change. 

Sadly you completely missed the mark here.

This was THE opportunity to finally, easily and elegantly adress the main issue with the games gameplay... health survivability.

You buffed Shieldgating, and gave players EVEN MORE reason to go with shieldgating. Yet a vast majority of the playerbase thinks health tanking already is JUST trash. And while I dont agree with that mindset and tend to play many health tanks successfully and find it much more enjoyable, there is NO denying that health and armor become almost irrelevant on their own in higher levels.

Currently there are two states you as a player can be in in warframe, alive at 100% health or dead.

there is no inbetween, there is no gameplay in managing your health, there is no sense of danger, no sense of "oh damn my health got low better heal up". You are either set up to never die, or you get oneshot. And one of the main reasons I haven't played much in the last 2 years is that this issue has become more and more extreme to a level where even I fall back to shieldgating more often than I like to admit.

 

and it is so funny and sad a the same time to me that you write "This outcome is a significant buff, which is not the intention of this system change. ".. no.. because JUST increasing it by this tiny amount doesn't even qualify as a buff, it would be a meaningless increase.. 100% more basehealth across the board wouldn't even change much in high levels..

On 2023-09-28 at 6:02 PM, [DE]Taylor said:

With this change, Excalibur’s Rank 30 Health stat is 370. With +100% Health from a max Vitality Mod, his resulting Health stat would be 740, which matches what it was originally. 

this is such an unelegant and visually ugly solution.. why 370? 300 was a clean number, 370 is just a random number to fit your outcome. AT LEAST make it an elegant 400 and dont even think about it as beeing a buff but rather just visually pleasing and non-random.

 

The update could have come with this exact change "Rank 30 Excalibur now receive an extra 1,320 Health from max rank Vitality, resulting in a total health stat of 1,600." and health tanking from this point onward would at least feel somewhat comparable to shieldgating.
Now I know, and you know, that the real issue is every scaling in warframe right now, but with the bandaid status we are in until a complete rework of all defences and health and damage scaling issues. Just flat out increasing our health by about 100% would at least show that you care for anything other than shieldgating and having 90% DR.

 

For everyone reading this who doesn't understand how math works and might think Im insane. increasing health from 740 to 1600 on excal is a 116% effective health increase for 216% effective health. But 90% DR from ANY of the bandaid abilities actually gives you 1000% effective health! and this is the BASELINE the game requires you to have to live for more than a second right now. 95% DR, what some abilities have, dont make you 5% more surviable, compared to a 90% DR it DOUBLES your effective health from 1000% to 2000%, the higher you go, the more insane it gets.

So by "just" a tiny tiny increase of double base health you actually dont even change that much.... and yes, ofcourse together WITH DR it would also result in turning 90% DR right now into basically the same as 95% DR, BUT STILL even with this you die in 2 second.... so actually giving you a bigger base health pool would AT LEAST visually help preparring you for the damage you recieve and MAYBE finally enable a sense of danger and actual health managing again, instead of just beein a binary system of dead or alive...

 

I'd MUCH rather see a high level excalibur at 3000 health, with DR abilities capped at 60% (7500 effective health) instead of a 740 health excalibur with 90% DR  (7400 effective health).

and according to what I just said before.. we would honestly still need more DR to make health tanking a viable alternative to shieldgating with the games current state.. non the less, this change would at least result in a healthbar you can see go up and down maybe.. ofcourse this would need testing, but still, health managing is a GOOD THING in a video game.. Warframes needs this again...

 

EDIT: Also, you just set the best example yourself with the release of kullervo. Just look at how well recieved he is now. why is he SO much fun now? because you have REAL gameplay with him, you actually have to manage his health. And how is this possible? well because he has 20.000 health. THATS what it takes to have compelling gameplay again, a healthpool that you can visually see go down and do something against. yet there are still people who argue and think he is squishy, and yes, he still dies within seconds if not careful. He is the prime example that we need more health as a bandaid until we get a full rework of the entire system. Make Health matter again. And deep inside myself I hope Kullervo was a test for you to see if people like more health.. if so, the answer is YES! YES we need more health! (for now)

Edited October 17, 2023 by SmokinDice