Option to simulate full party for solo players - Moar enemies!

[Rando_]

We were discussing this in clan the other day, and we all agree it would be great if, when playing solo, you could have the option to simulate a full party and spawn more enemies.

Sometimes I just wanna jump into a mission and farm for an hour or something, and I'd rather not look for 20 minutes to find 2-3 more people willing to do the same. And joining pubs is definitely not an option - if you're alone in the mission, you have the issue of too few enemies spawning, and if people join, but just decide to run around the map(this is more specific to survivals) it defeats the point of farming. And then they leave after 5-10 minutes, so you're back to no enemies.


I came back to the game after many years, and I've seen they're implementing some pretty good QOL changes in the next patch, so I thought I'd make this post, to hopefully inspire a future update. You never know!
There's also the chance this has been asked for ages, in which case, +1.

[Executor_Aeternus]

If it helps, you should know that in Steel Path, enemy spawn rates during Endless missions are increased as if playing in a full squad in normal mode. It doesn't modify non-endless missions though, and the Steel Path modifiers require the solar map to have been completed before being able to access this mode. As such, there's nothing equivalent available to players still working through the solar map the first time. I agree with you; a toggle to increase spawns appropriately would be nice.

[Rando_]

Ah yeah, I still haven't gotten around to unlocking Steel Path. Thanks for reminding me of that. 

[Corvid]

I'd be down for this. SP's health modifiers aren't fun to me, so it'd be nice to have a separate option for the increased spawns so regular missions don't feel so anaemic.

Void, make it so that Solo players (and premade squads) can apply the different SP modifiers (Increased enemy spawns, Increased enemy defences, Increased starting level, and Acolyte spawns) separately. For SP node completion and Steel Essence acquisition, require all modifiers to be active.

Having a more tweakable set of hard mode options would only make the game better in my eyes.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Corvid

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

26 minutes ago, Corvid said:

I'd be down for this. SP's health modifiers aren't fun to me, so it'd be nice to have a separate option for the increased spawns so regular missions don't feel so anaemic.

Void, make it so that Solo players (and premade squads) can apply the different SP modifiers (Increased enemy spawns, Increased enemy defences, Increased starting level, and Acolyte spawns) separately. For SP node completion and Steel Essence acquisition, require all modifiers to be active.

Having a more tweakable set of hard mode options would only make the game better in my eyes.

I think this would quickly become a bashfest and cause a big state of staleness. This feels like a temporary "cool" feature but players would start challenging the rewards structure, which would then force DE to create different rates and, oh man does that sound like a gigantic, brewing and lingering headache.

[(NSW)Greybones]

2 hours ago, Rando_ said:

Ah yeah, I still haven't gotten around to unlocking Steel Path. Thanks for reminding me of that. 

SP also has some modifiers that provide increased resource and mod drop chance, plus it lets you show off how good you are at building (even if not good at playing, but that matters little when farming anyways) and innately leans into unbalanced territory, so it may be that what you’re looking for is already in the game

[(NSW)Greybones]

3 hours ago, Corvid said:

I'd be down for this. SP's health modifiers aren't fun to me, so it'd be nice to have a separate option for the increased spawns so regular missions don't feel so anaemic.

Void, make it so that Solo players (and premade squads) can apply the different SP modifiers (Increased enemy spawns, Increased enemy defences, Increased starting level, and Acolyte spawns) separately. For SP node completion and Steel Essence acquisition, require all modifiers to be active.

Having a more tweakable set of hard mode options would only make the game better in my eyes.

This does make me wonder how players will tweak and adjust the settings to maximise efficiency and minimise effort. I feel like having granular control over the enemy makes less sense than having granular control over ourselves (like, why would someone load up on damage or health mods and then set the enemy health or damage so that they’re just breaking even when they can just use alternative mods, or do things like keep PSF equipped and then somehow introduce a way to counter PSF when the… point of the build was to not have to worry about threat), but it would be interesting to see how warped things can get and how fast players can get the reward

Edited October 10, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[Hexerin]

Hell, I already want to double the current SP enemy density. I wouldn't even care if the extra enemies had no loot tables (other than orbs and ammo, of course), I just want the density so my weapons and abilities feel more satisfying when they wipe everything from a room/tile.

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

I think if you're solo you should be able to run with two pets...

[kamisama85]

9 hours ago, Rando_ said:

We were discussing this in clan the other day, and we all agree it would be great if, when playing solo, you could have the option to simulate a full party and spawn more enemies.

Sometimes I just wanna jump into a mission and farm for an hour or something, and I'd rather not look for 20 minutes to find 2-3 more people willing to do the same. And joining pubs is definitely not an option - if you're alone in the mission, you have the issue of too few enemies spawning, and if people join, but just decide to run around the map(this is more specific to survivals) it defeats the point of farming. And then they leave after 5-10 minutes, so you're back to no enemies.


I came back to the game after many years, and I've seen they're implementing some pretty good QOL changes in the next patch, so I thought I'd make this post, to hopefully inspire a future update. You never know!
There's also the chance this has been asked for ages, in which case, +1.

This would be such an excellent option to have especially for game modes that have not yet gotten the Steel Path treatment such as:

• Arbitrations
• Railjack/Void Storms
• Normal Relics (When SP relics are not the mission type/faction/location you particularly enjoy)

I always play SP because I play almost exclusively solo, but the primary reason for that is because you get the same spawn quantity as if you were with 4 people total. More enemies just means more chances for things to drop, and more quantities to drop in a shorter period of time. It would be especially good for less veteran players who do not want to go to steel path or are not interested in steel essence farming as well but just want something a little bit more challenging. I wouldn't expect the AI to be anything better than syndicate mission support AI specters, and the dream request cherry on top would be if you could equip an additional relic for each simulated party member (up to 4 relics on your own). 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

it would certainly be nice, but it would certainly have to be optional: not everyone's devices would be able to handle the gameplay with even more enemies on screen.

my way of implementing it, would be as a gear item: the "SOS beacon" would mimic a distress call by the enemy faction, who would then receive reinforcements. each time it activates is +1 player's worth of spawns, so if you're solo, you can use it 3 times, 2 players 2 times, and a trio once. you'd get to control exactly how many enemies you get to fight solo so that you can strike a balance and not be bored or risk being overwhelmed. 

[The_Royal_Elf_Mika]

10 hours ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

I think if you're solo you should be able to run with two pets...

khora

[Corvid]

17 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

I think this would quickly become a bashfest and cause a big state of staleness. This feels like a temporary "cool" feature but players would start challenging the rewards structure, which would then force DE to create different rates and, oh man does that sound like a gigantic, brewing and lingering headache.

Hence why I specifically said all options needed to be enabled for things like Steel Essence to drop. If you want the rewards, you need to earn them. If you don't care about that and just want to tweak your experience, the options are there for that.

15 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

This does make me wonder how players will tweak and adjust the settings to maximise efficiency and minimise effort.

See above.

Ideally, I'd also like to let solo players also apply things like Nightmare and Sortie modifiers to their sessions, and outright select which starting level the mission would have. Not for additional rewards, but simply to let them spice up their own sessions.

[(NSW)Greybones]

35 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Hence why I specifically said all options needed to be enabled for things like Steel Essence to drop. If you want the rewards, you need to earn them. If you don't care about that and just want to tweak your experience, the options are there for that.

See above.

Ideally, I'd also like to let solo players also apply things like Nightmare and Sortie modifiers to their sessions, and outright select which starting level the mission would have. Not for additional rewards, but simply to let them spice up their own sessions.

Can’t help but feel like the reason players are living in their builds is because said builds are designed to avoid session spiciness

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

18 hours ago, Corvid said:

I'd be down for this. SP's health modifiers aren't fun to me, so it'd be nice to have a separate option for the increased spawns so regular missions don't feel so anaemic.

Void, make it so that Solo players (and premade squads) can apply the different SP modifiers (Increased enemy spawns, Increased enemy defences, Increased starting level, and Acolyte spawns) separately. For SP node completion and Steel Essence acquisition, require all modifiers to be active.

Having a more tweakable set of hard mode options would only make the game better in my eyes.

So mayhem mode from borderlands, for example you can go to mayhem 12, you can tweak the negative percs ie enemies health, damage etc but you can also modify your loot drop rate, damage increase and so on for every negative perc you change you can they change a positive perc, your idea is definitely a good one it would just need to be scaled well, ie borderlands enemies don’t go to level 99999 that there would definitely need to be looked at.

 In survival steel path missions at round 20 the drop rate caps, this would need to be looked at in depth all in all if DE did sit down and implement this well it definitely could provide a freshness to the grind.

Maybe they could even do a set of daily negatives and percs set by the system for example the sortie system but on steroids like enemies do huge rad damage but your positive would be you have increased melee damage, your loot chance is increased and you earn a special currency that you can use for endgame, endgame stuff like an orokin cat, reactor or riven sliver bundles or something.

Edited October 11, 2023 by (PSN)FrDiabloFr

[Aruquae]

Pretty much only play solo (lone wolf go brr), so this works out perfectly

Only problem is I still play on switch (cross save when?)… this would be beneficial to PC and “newer” gen console though. If they implemented this on switch, or my friend’s outdated xbox, there will be problems.

[Corvid]

2 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Can’t help but feel like the reason players are living in their builds is because said builds are designed to avoid session spiciness

This addition isn't for those players. It's for the ones who enjoy the in-mission gameplay and want some more ways to adjust that experience.

[ReddyDisco]

I have this issue with arbitrations, not enough enemies spawn if you're solo. Can't wait for SP arbitrations

[Hexerin]

2 hours ago, Corvid said:

This addition isn't for those players. It's for the ones who enjoy the in-mission gameplay and want some more ways to adjust that experience.

Raises hand. I'm one of those players, I would love mutators to spice up my general gameplay.

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

9 hours ago, (NSW)Royal_Elf_Mika said:

khora

Khora would get threeeeeeee

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

8 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Can’t help but feel like the reason players are living in their builds is because said builds are designed to avoid session spiciness

How many players actually want this? Not sure if this relates but i was in Fortuna solo but public. Is was set to SP. I kept seeing players join then leave a minute later, like 30 players. One stayed. Just one. I don't know if they were set to SP mistakenly and bailed or if they were regular players who WF put in my SP orb vallis open world and were like, "what the heck?" but most didn't stay.

[(NSW)Greybones]

5 hours ago, Corvid said:

This addition isn't for those players. It's for the ones who enjoy the in-mission gameplay and want some more ways to adjust that experience.

And they need to be able to adjust both themselves and the enemy.

Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t mind more chances to experience things like Radiation modifiers and No-shield Nightmares. But we’ve got ways to spice up our fights right now, where we get more options to draw from to customise our builds and loadouts and general gameplay experience the more we play around, where the same build/loadout can have different effects based on where it’s taken in terms of mission level and type, and it’s not being utilised to its fullest when someone goes “I could fight and face risk and a bit of spiciness, or I could build for endless energy, slap PSF on, and overtune my gear to insta-kill everything and gribd more efficiently for unused things”

What I feel like I’m seeing whenever someone asks for the game to be designed around their builds is someone asking for one thing, then building for another. If DE introduced more chances to get some spice, where it can play out exactly like someone imagines, I’m certain those same players would be figuring out the optimal way to avoid it and then once more asking for a fight and we’re back to square one

[(NSW)Greybones]

5 hours ago, Corvid said:

This addition isn't for those players. It's for the ones who enjoy the in-mission gameplay and want some more ways to adjust that experience.

Not to mention the nightmare of trying to get balanced gameplay going, where it’s both threatening but also do-able. Right now the missions have their own individual balance and we can build so that we’re closer or farther from it, but the mission remains the same it’s just our builds that change and the experience that we have is changed accordingly.

We’re already inundated with so much choice I sometimes gotta randomise my loadout and strip out my mods to start from the beginning to break analysis paralysis. Throw in the ability to customise the missions instead of just concerning myself with what’s there and focusing on the builds and their impact, and the game becomes infinitely more nuanced than it already is, and it’s almost too granular already

edit: 🤔 Though I guess the customisations would be things like Sortie and Nightmare modifiers, leaving enemy stats still at the whim of the level of content and thus able to be blown away if someone loads up on comparitively redundant amounts of damage and survival for that level, so that does simplify things and sounds more appealing

Edited October 11, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[Corvid]

37 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

But we’ve got ways to spice up our fights right now,

And those are insufficient. No amount of build tweaking will change the enemy spawn rate, or cause Acolytes to start spawning, or apply a nightmare/sortie mutator to a mission on demand.

And while yes, you can deliberately weaken yourself to get an experience that's somewhat similar to facing enemies of specific level ranges, doing so is finicky, requiring the player to plan their exact damage output and durability in advance. And while Garrus Vakarian is a beloved character in the gaming community, I doubt many players are interested in emulating his penchant for calibrations.

Worst of all, it requires adjusting multiple pieces of equipment every time you want to emulate a different level range (or even fight a different faction at the same range, since the 3 main factions scale their durability differently). Meanwhile, with an enemy level slider all of the could be done by simply adjusting a single variable.

[(NSW)Greybones]

1 minute ago, Corvid said:

And those are insufficient. No amount of build tweaking will change the enemy spawn rate, or cause Acolytes to start spawning, or apply a nightmare/sortie mutator to a mission on demand.

And while yes, you can deliberately weaken yourself to get an experience that's somewhat similar to facing enemies of specific level ranges, doing so is finicky, requiring the player to plan their exact damage output and durability in advance. And while Garrus Vakarian is a beloved character in the gaming community, I doubt many players are interested in emulating his penchant for calibrations.

Worst of all, it requires adjusting multiple pieces of equipment every time you want to emulate a different level range (or even fight a different faction at the same range, since the 3 main factions scale their durability differently). Meanwhile, with an enemy level slider all of the could be done by simply adjusting a single variable.

It’s seriously not a big deal to change builds according to the level; the game can be surprisingly robust in providing a range of options to take a single loadout to and still get a fight. I wouldn’t ask players to adjust their builds after every fight like I do, but they don’t need to either. I don’t know what you imagine an alternative build looking like because you make it sound like a bad thing when it’s just exploring more options and customising the gameplay more, but there’s only like 5-ish major tiers of standard content

In this case though, you’re talking about designing everything around a build so that someone doesn’t have to change their build, and the game changes around them.

Among many things, that means they’re going to keep earning things they never use and thus kind of have no point in earning, where at some point they’re going to want to mix something up because the game’s a little stale and lo-and-behold, they’ll be engaging with the game that already exists and using things they were sidelining before as if the slider was basically unnecessary to begin with.

The only thing holding players back from actually fighting is some warped sense of what a fight is meant to look like and some misguided idea that they’re supposed to fill empty mod slots with damage and survival first, even when fighting enemies that don’t need it. Like, what do you mean when you say “An experience that’s somewhat similar to fighting enemies of a specific level range”?