Hydroid and Inaros

[(PSN)EntityPendragon]

Right, until recently hydroid went from 0 to hero but I got an argument on my hands and I will see it's conclusion so!

Og Hydroid before the update or current Inaros...

Who deserves a rework, keep it short and sweet.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

they both desperately needed a rework: Pablo just picked Hydroid first, which surprised me since he's been unpopular for years, whereas Inaros was used by a lot of people as a gun platform/cheesing content where their other frames couldn't survive. it's only really been in the last year or so I've noticed more and more people calling out Inaros for being boring and weak ability-wise, which he is.

Inaros needs a rework now just as much as Hydroid did before the update dropped. dude's out here being called a god thing and making Baro lose his sh1t every time he appears in the relay, yet he's nothing but a walking health pool that can do easy finishers. what i would like is for him to be a true desert-deity of death! rework proposal time!

- new passive: Inaros no longer uses energy to cast abilities, drawing power directly from his health instead. when his health is below a certain threshold, his power increases. his undying passive now also scales with both power strength and bypasses armor, so as long as you can pull enemies in, they should die and revive you.

- Dessicate; still works as normal, but could also apply a debuff to make dealing damage against over guarded units easier. "Mark of the Sands" is applied to enemies who are affected by dessicate, casting it again on marked enemies deals a high instance of damage. this also serves as a priming ability for his other powers.

- Scarab Devour: Inaros commands a swarm of his flesh-eating Scarabs to take down multiple targets; each target is immobilized and takes constant health damage, with a portion of damage dealt being restored to Inaros as health over time. if the player runs up and melees the enemy or casts Dessicate on them, the scarabs are retrieved immediately and the health restore applies immediately in full. if an enemy with Mark of the Sands" is killed by this ability, even more health is restored to Inaros.

- Sandstorm: now a two part ability; to start with, Inaros casts a sand tornado at the point of aim, covering an area and dealing damage over time to enemies. if Inaros or an ally walks into his Sandstorm, a portion of their health is restored every second, and the Sandstorm also reflects enemy bullets, allowing it to act as a sanctuary on the battlefield. enemies affected by Mark of the Sands take additional damage from the Sandstorm

- NEW 4th ability, Sands Awakened: Inaros creates a couple of Sand Shadows to engage enemies on his behalf: shadows cost a large chunk of health, but deal high damage based on your own melee weapon damage, and each kill restores health to Inaros; if Inaros takes fatal damage while Sand Shadows are active, one Shadow will die in his place instead, and Inaros gains a short invulnerability window, as well as restoring his health if it is low, up to a maximum of 50%. enemies affected by Mark of the Sands take additional damage from Sand Shadow attacks.

essentially, this version of Inaros is still intended to be incredibly tanky, but his abilities make him a Tank/Summoner/Healer hybrid, with a kit that can be used for offense and defense, and he no longer relies on weapons entirely for his damage output. health being used for powers is also a cool idea for him IMO and actually warrants the need for his massive health pool: the player constantly rides the line between life and death, destroying all in their wake and consuming enemies with the power of the desert! THAT is what playing as Inaros should feel like IMO!

edit: so much for short and sweet I guess. can't help myself, I LOVE theoretical reworks, _{even if nobody reads them..}

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by (PSN)robotwars7

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

I fear for an Inaros rework, as he's my most used frame. He's comfortable, and lets me just relax and play the game without worries. There's no demanding rotation of casting abilities. He's stable and reliable. He can be fun solo, and can be a team player. MOST people don't know how to use his abilities, and yet, they call him a braindead frame to use... I find this ironic.

I consider myself an Inaros main (last I checked frame usage percentages: Inaros: 36.9%, Inaros Prime: 21.4% - the rest of my time is split between Loki, Wisp, Frost, Nekros and Oberon - I am really liking Styanax, so he'll be a rising star in my roster), and the only ability I really don't use is sandstorm. It's not a great damage ability, and as a Melee player, I'd rather all my enemies stay on the ground where I can hit them, not be flung every which way. Also, his sand clones are quite under-used.

I like him as-is enough, obviously, but everyone else is calling for his rework, and this is how I'd do it, if it had to be done.

* Passive *
His passive sarcophagus is a joke when it's really needed. If they made the sarcophagus' charging mechanic not be linked to damage dealt, to something more reliable, I'd be happier with it, but I don't really even consider it to be my passive, due to the unwritten one existing. Personally, I'd allow any ally kills within affinity range charge his revive mechanism. In addition, I'd allow his "beam" to do percentage based damage, and as long as an enemy is trapped in his beam (enemies hit by the beam would be stunned, and would stop moving), it would pause the clock on reviving. This would allow the beam to be useful, even in steel path and other high level enemy content, and it would be consistent across levels. Oddly enough, I find there are rarely any enemies around at all, to target with the sarcophagus beam, in situations where I die as Inaros. Usually this is because other players already killed everything after the fact.

His unwritten passive "restoring life on finisher" is my bread and butter. (and watching Megan play Inaros on stream, but NOT using this mechanic to heal herself, opting instead to use devour, is frustrating beyond words.)

New 3rd passive! : It costs health instead of energy to use all of Inaros' abilities.

* 1 *
Dessicate is my most used ability, since it sets enemies up for finishers and acts as quick crowd control. (and on low level missions like Lith Fissures, it can kill enemies that spawn in walls.) (I would love it if it had an armor stripping feature, but Hydroid and Styanax already took that sort of effect)

* 2 *
Devour is technically a usable ability, but I really don't find many use case scenarios. For me, it's mainly used when I want to disable one enemy, like a heavy gunner. When an enemy has been hit by Devour, they become devourable by team mates to heal their health up as well. (they just hit "interact" with the enemy) Inaros isn't just a selfish tank... he can be support! It's just, there are so many other ways to heal team mates, that the generally don't want to wait as long as it takes to gain health from devour.

Changes:
"Devoured" enemies would be devoured over time by quicksand, whether or not you stand there draining health. (like a doom counter.)
If the "Devoured" enemy is effected by Scarab Swarm, you drain life from the enemy from any distance.
I would make this ability's speed of devouring scale with duration, rather than ability strength. (higher duration being a good thing, positively modifying the duration - the positive effect would be to reduce the time it takes to devour. And positive duration would be good for the duration of the resulting Sand Shadow minion created from devour.)

If Inaros dies while a Sand Shadow is active, the shadow dies, and he bypasses the sarcophagus entirely. (sand shadow duration would not be tied to time taken to devour...)

* 3 *
IF NOTHING ELSE, I'd change his sand storm. Sand Storm actively works against my melee play style, flinging enemies in every direction, out of my range!

I would make it a buff instead of a "form" that we take, similar to Zephyr's Turbulence, that moves with us, reducing enemy accuracy from outside it, and randomly staggering enemies inside it. I would also make this cast-able on others, and defense objects. This would be a lot more effective in today's gameplay environment, than the useless, slow moving tornado we currently have - it's as bad as Hydroid's puddle, with even less utility (aside from laughs as you fling enemies into walls in enclosed spaces.)

* 4 *
I use his Scarab Armor rarely, on tougher missions, when I know there won't be nullifiers, because I run head-long into nullifier bubbles to kill the units. When I'm in a group, I'll use Scarab Armor's swarming ability to lock down certain areas with its crowd control, or set up a passive health restoration area for the party, as the scarabs drain the life of their victims and spread it to teammates in range. (I would like the benefits of this to be made more clear to people with a clear visual effect, like glowing scarabs flying out of enemies, and into allies, healing them - again, Inaros can be support!) I would also increase the range of scarab spreading and healing.

I would add one feature to Scarab Armor, in this age of shield gating: As long as you have scarab armor active, and an attack would cause fatal damage, the scarab armor is stripped like ablative armor (in 10% chunks), protecting your health (with invincibility periods between blocked damage instances - the same sort of protection afforded to shield gating against rapid firing weapons.)

In a more "what if" mood, I considered possibly making it so that when you have Scarab Armor active, and enemies hit you with melee strikes, there is a chance for them to get covered in scarabs as a counter/reaction of sorts, not costing a "use" of scarab armor's swarming. I would also add this feature to Sand Shadows, so they essentially spread Scarab Swarm where ever they go.

 

They're not big changes for the most part, but I think it would be enough to bring Inaros up to today's speed and utility.

(Hydroid needed the rework more than Inaros. Inaros is still good even now... that's just a wishlist of things that would be nice if they changed.)

Edited October 29, 2023 by (PSN)AyinDygra
added last line to directly address the OP

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

I really think inaros is overhated.

He's one of the best tanks in the game. His 1 is solid. His 2 isnt amazing but it has uses. His 3 is decent especially with augment. His 3 is terrible and his passive is hilariously outdated.

 

But i think we have warframes with bigger problems. Like limbo. 

[(PSN)Unstar]

Hydroid needed it far more because he had so much trouble doing anything meaningful; he just couldn't keep up and there was no reason to use him.

I honestly don't know why some folks like to trash Inaros so much; I assume it's because they associate him with unskilled players?  Those unskilled players use him for a reason: he's a tanky weapons platform, and he's easy to use effectively.  There's no dire need for a rework there, even if some players justifiably think he's little more than an uninteresting wall of health.  It turns out that being a wall of health is good, and some players dig that.  Let them.

[fo3nixz]

change Negation Swarm to grant overgaurd