Just another request to remove Eximus Stronghold from Duviri Defense stages (or rework crowd control and Overguard interaction)

[bl1te]

Sometimes it is literally impossible to finish a Defense stage in solo mode (Steel Path) if you have encountered bad RNG and didn't have a frame which can control the crowd through OG.

I realize it is intended to be hard. But hard != impossible.

I can survive, I can kill them fast one by one. But when there is literally a crowd of OG enemies that brute-force the defense target and I have not been given any tools to resist it, what am I supposed to do?

Creating this thread after a Revenant (invincible to any damage and stagger) session with Gotva Prime, Aksomati Prime, and Nami Skyla Prime fully modded. I was shredding enemies in milliseconds but it is still not enough. As I said, tens of Eximus just standing around, hitting the target, and ignoring my only possible source of crowd control which is Magus Lockdown.

[(PSN)EntityPendragon]

5 hours ago, bl1te said:

Sometimes it is literally impossible to finish a Defense stage in solo mode (Steel Path) if you have encountered bad RNG and didn't have a frame which can control the crowd through OG.

I realize it is intended to be hard. But hard != impossible.

I can survive, I can kill them fast one by one. But when there is literally a crowd of OG enemies that brute-force the defense target and I have not been given any tools to resist it, what am I supposed to do?

Creating this thread after a Revenant (invincible to any damage and stagger) session with Gotva Prime, Aksomati Prime, and Nami Skyla Prime fully modded. I was shredding enemies in milliseconds but it is still not enough. As I said, tens of Eximus just standing around, hitting the target, and ignoring my only possible source of crowd control which is Magus Lockdown.

May I suggest trying out Magus anomaly. Saved my ass multiple times and the grouping feels nice in general. 

Works on even over guard enemies.

Edited November 1, 2023 by (PSN)EntityPendragon

[Pizzarugi]

4 hours ago, bl1te said:

Creating this thread after a Revenant (invincible to any damage and stagger)

Speaking as a Revenant main, I can throw you some advice if you happen to roll him again!

Try subsuming Nyx's Mind Control into your kit, replacing Danse Macabre. One of Revenant's greatest gimmicks since the eximus rework is that he has a form of CC they're still vulnerable to: Distraction. His thralls can draw aggro. It's not a surefire way to peel enemies off your defense target, but they're extra meatshields you otherwise wouldn't have. The reason you want Mind Control is, if you're either playing with other people or you have a habit of just blasting wildly without a care about what you're shooting at, your mind controlled thrall will be immune to damage so they can keep creating more thralls for you.

To make a mind controlled thrall, first you use Mind Control on the target then follow up with the Enthrall ability. Bonus points if you can bring an eximus overguard down so you can mind control them, giving you some extra benefits. Try and focus your damage on eximus enemies first since you can't enthrall them due to overguard. High duration builds are especially good here.

Alternative options, if you have enough ability range, is to subsume Octavia's Resonator instead. This is great on other frames, especially ones you built for high range and duration such as Zephyr.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Pizzarugi

[KitMeHarder]

4 hours ago, bl1te said:

Creating this thread after a Revenant (invincible to any damage and stagger) session with Gotva Prime, Aksomati Prime, and Nami Skyla Prime fully modded. I was shredding enemies in milliseconds but it is still not enough.

I mean you have basically zero multi-target capabilities at all, I don't know what you expected while soloing.

IMO the only overarching issue is that Guardian eximus probably shouldn't be able to affect other eximus (or at least their overguard).

27 minutes ago, (PSN)EntityPendragon said:

May I suggest trying out Magus anomaly. Saved my ass multiple times and the grouping feels nice in general. 

Works on even over guard enemies.

I believe this was just nerfed in a PC hotfix.

[(PSN)EntityPendragon]

13 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

I believe this was just nerfed in a PC hotfix

Damn. That is rough. 

Then I gotta follow through with the classic response which is 'leave on defense if you are not sure'. 

[Tiltskillet]

8 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

IMO the only overarching issue is that Guardian eximus probably shouldn't be able to affect other eximus (or at least their overguard).

Overguard of other Eximus units isn't affected by the Guardian DR aura.  Health and Shields are though.

[AntifreezeUnder0]

Its not improssible, but it highlinght why random loadouts with emphasis on least used, unwowned picks are least used.... in firstplace. And it further shows that we get illusion of challenge in duviri. All difficulty is gone once we get the roll with our top pick loadouts and frames.

Even if one gets to own all the weapons and mod them it still be some not viable and be just to reroll on better choice.

 

[bl1te]

@Pizzarugi Thank you for your advice. Although I still see an issue there. As you said, in order to Enthrall an Eximus you have to deplete it's OG first. Speaking of the session I played, I was killing enemies too fast to react and stop firing to enthrall them. And there were only Eximus, zero regular enemies which can be enthralled at once.

4 часа назад, KitMeHarder сказал:

I mean you have basically zero multi-target capabilities at all, I don't know what you expected while soloing.

I was not expecting anything. It was a Defense stage from one of three portals which appear after beating the Orowyrm. My progress and rewards were already saved so this was not that much of an issue. But still it shows that there is an issue. Either with RNG loadouts, or Eximus crowd in Defense, or crowd control and OG interaction.

4 часа назад, (PSN)EntityPendragon сказал:

Then I gotta follow through with the classic response which is 'leave on defense if you are not sure'.

+1 👆, it was a Defense stage from one of three portals which appear after beating the Orowyrm, so I couldn't know what the mission would be beforehand.

[EDM774]

when you get revenant again for a defense portion, find a health leech, strip the OG and enthrall them they will heal the objective really fast

[bl1te]

5 минут назад, EDM774 сказал:

when you get revenant again for a defense portion, find a health leech, strip the OG and enthrall them they will heal the objective really fast

Wow, can you confirm it works?

[KitMeHarder]

6 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Overguard of other Eximus units isn't affected by the Guardian DR aura.  Health and Shields are though.

Has that always been the case? Because I know no DR source affects our overguard, but not so long ago Nox had to have their DR removed because it just made them way too tanky with the overguard from their eximus form.

1 hour ago, bl1te said:

I was not expecting anything. It was a Defense stage from one of three portals which appear after beating the Orowyrm. My progress and rewards were already saved so this was not that much of an issue. But still it shows that there is an issue. Either with RNG loadouts, or Eximus crowd in Defense, or crowd control and OG interaction.

It was still a potentiality. Plus, there are countless threads of people complaining WF has no challenge/is too easy. So here's potential challenge, and IMO your issues aren't severe enough to need addressing anyway.

Conversely, if none of your 13 RNG options provide any decent multi-target damage, you can either skip that rotation or reroll it with a single round of the Circuit.

[EDM774]

6 hours ago, bl1te said:

Wow, can you confirm it works?

yes it's been a strat I use when I get revenant in SP circuit, and in eximus stronghold arcane farm portals in SP experience. Long as you have the thrall alive the defense objective will be pretty much always at full HP.

[Tiltskillet]

5 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

Has that always been the case?

It's been true for a long time.  I can't swear it's been true since the day Eximus Reborn hit.  But I tested it within a few months (probably weeks) of that.   And a few times since,  including yesterday.

5 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

Because I know no DR source affects our overguard, but not so long ago Nox had to have their DR removed because it just made them way too tanky with the overguard from their eximus form.

I was only speaking of the Guardian aura.  Most don't , but at least  one source of DR affects Recompense Overguard: dodging. (And at least two invulns.) 

And the Ancient Disruptor aura affects enemy Overguard.  Or used to.  I haven't tested it in a few months.  There are or were also some innate DRs that affected enemy Overguard..  And Nox had their DR reduced rather than removed according to the wiki.  

[KitMeHarder]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

And Nox had their DR reduced rather than removed according to the wiki. 

I ctrl+f'd and only saw that the Demolisher Nox has DR.

[(PSN)EntityPendragon]

10 hours ago, bl1te said:

+1 👆, it was a Defense stage from one of three portals which appear after beating the Orowyrm, so I couldn't know what the mission would be beforehand.

Ah, well that is extremely unfortunate. I don't got a snarky quip for that. Sounds like there needs a change to allow you to see what the mission will be first before entering those portals.

[Pizzarugi]

10 hours ago, bl1te said:

@Pizzarugi Thank you for your advice. Although I still see an issue there. As you said, in order to Enthrall an Eximus you have to deplete it's OG first. Speaking of the session I played, I was killing enemies too fast to react and stop firing to enthrall them. And there were only Eximus, zero regular enemies which can be enthralled at once.

10 hours ago, bl1te said:

I was not expecting anything. It was a Defense stage from one of three portals which appear after beating the Orowyrm.

Sorry, I hadn't realized you weren't doing Circuit and instead took one of the challenge portals in Duviri.

The best solution I can give if you wanna do those is to juice yourself hard before running them. Getting a TON of decrees centered around damage will turn you into a powerhouse and should let you obliterate eximus before they can swarm and take out your defense target.

This isn't a guarantee for a win, because your success will still hinge on how good your weapons are. Having Revenant means not worrying about dying, but if your guns are poorly modded, that could mean spending more time than you might like stacking decrees. In that case, for the future, you should determine how much you're willing to stack decrees depending on how strong your weapon naturally is and deciding whether or not its worth doing one of those challenge portals in this run.

I tend to play cautiously so when I'm told ahead of time that challenge portals are going to be difficult when DE announced them, I took necessary measures and ran them with overwhelming force.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Pizzarugi

[bl1te]

Alright, just got lucky to have another Revenant run with single-target weapons.

And it seems like the only way to deal with tons of eximus if you lack crowd control or multi-target weapon is acquiring Close Contagion decree (Foes inflicted with Status Effects have a 50% chance to spread that Status to enemies within 10m).

Had no issue with that this time.

Just hope DE will never say "It was not inteded for Eximus to be affected by that decree so now it will only work for regular units"

[(XBOX)GHOSTY009]

On 2023-10-31 at 3:55 PM, bl1te said:

Sometimes it is literally impossible to finish a Defense stage in solo mode (Steel Path) if you have encountered bad RNG and didn't have a frame which can control the crowd through OG.

I realize it is intended to be hard. But hard != impossible.

I can survive, I can kill them fast one by one. But when there is literally a crowd of OG enemies that brute-force the defense target and I have not been given any tools to resist it, what am I supposed to do?

Creating this thread after a Revenant (invincible to any damage and stagger) session with Gotva Prime, Aksomati Prime, and Nami Skyla Prime fully modded. I was shredding enemies in milliseconds but it is still not enough. As I said, tens of Eximus just standing around, hitting the target, and ignoring my only possible source of crowd control which is Magus Lockdown.

I run with silence on my Rev frame because it stops the eximus units from doing their nasty attacks. They're still spongey but it stops it from being overly chaotic. Also if you make sure to strip the overguard and enthrall on one, the others will start to get enthralled as soon as their overguard gets stripped off as well.

[vixenpixel]

I think it's good. If you have a bad loadout, don't play it in solo. I can't imagine having the mindset to want to be able to win vs any game mode when you are taking all the handicaps in a mission. Picking worst weapons, picking bad frame, picking steel path, picking SOLO? Then when you can't handle it, complain on forum. This makes zero sense to me. It's like reverse dark souls mental. What are you doing, man?