We need an URGENT rework of trading system

[Packetdancer]

5 minutes ago, sly_squash said:

I don't understand why you think an "escrow server" needs to require both player avatars to be in the same virtual space at the time of the trade.

It does not require that; the trade needs to go through a trusted server, and right now, in this specific game, the only avenue to do that is likely the relay servers and dojos as those are the only already-extant suitable authoritative servers in the current game.

(I mean, I guess you could stuff trade data into a side channel on the chat server, but that makes my system architect soul cry. Plus, if the chat server presently has any sort of write access to the asset/inventory servers, I will be mildly puzzled as to why.)

Apologies if I hadn't made that clear; I was attempting to explain the likely reason why, given how this specific game is currently put together, trading works the way it does. (And to suggest a way to improve it which doesn't violate DE's stated position on offline trading, and would not require rearchitecting the current system to support it.)

Because if we're talking entirely in abstract, with the idea that money and time are infinite and any redesign is feasible, of course you don't need to be on the same instance server! I personally have implemented three different ways to handle trading in an online game without opening up the risk of item dupes and exploits! And only one of them utilized a shared instance server (due to constraints in the existing code of the game I pitched in to help a friend with).

Heck, at that point you absolutely could create some new escrow server where that hypothetical trade interface just allocates a session on said escrow server and connects both people there, letting you trade from your orbiter!

But in development, time and budget are very rarely infinite, and often the approach that's likely to get the green light is the one that requires as little rearchitecting of things as possible... hence trying to show a hypothetical new system that changes as few things as possible while still improving the scenario, to make the point that while the system could absolutely use improvement, that improvement does not have to require massive changes.

(Hopefully that more clearly illustrates what I was going for?)

[MechNexus]

45 minutes ago, Packetdancer said:

It does not require that; the trade needs to go through a trusted server, and right now, in this specific game, the only avenue to do that is likely the relay servers and dojos as those are the only already-extant suitable authoritative servers in the current game.

(I mean, I guess you could stuff trade data into a side channel on the chat server, but that makes my system architect soul cry. Plus, if the chat server presently has any sort of write access to the asset/inventory servers, I will be mildly puzzled as to why.)

Apologies if I hadn't made that clear; I was attempting to explain the likely reason why, given how this specific game is currently put together, trading works the way it does. (And to suggest a way to improve it which doesn't violate DE's stated position on offline trading, and would not require rearchitecting the current system to support it.)

Because if we're talking entirely in abstract, with the idea that money and time are infinite and any redesign is feasible, of course you don't need to be on the same instance server! I personally have implemented three different ways to handle trading in an online game without opening up the risk of item dupes and exploits! And only one of them utilized a shared instance server (due to constraints in the existing code of the game I pitched in to help a friend with).

Heck, at that point you absolutely could create some new escrow server where that hypothetical trade interface just allocates a session on said escrow server and connects both people there, letting you trade from your orbiter!

But in development, time and budget are very rarely infinite, and often the approach that's likely to get the green light is the one that requires as little rearchitecting of things as possible... hence trying to show a hypothetical new system that changes as few things as possible while still improving the scenario, to make the point that while the system could absolutely use improvement, that improvement does not have to require massive changes.

(Hopefully that more clearly illustrates what I was going for?)

Thank you for your perspective, it's incredibly refreshing. Too often people just shout their demands and call the devs lazy when they can't be met, so yours showing technical knowledge and acknowledging limitations DE may be under is a breath of fresh air. I'm quite hesitant to see trading opened up more out of concern for too many people playing the game just to trade and causing problems (see: TF2 and counter-strike) but i'd be on board with your proposal.

[Birdframe_Prime]

18 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

Warframe is not a "peer-to-peer" game, all state is on DE's servers. Learn something before making a post.

Oh, you're attempting to troll. That's nice. Good for you.

[Circle_of_Psi]

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Oh, you're attempting to troll. That's nice. Good for you.

I think at this point, you should Ignore and move on Bird

^{_{(Why does calling you "Bird" sound aggressive?)}}

Edited January 5 by Circle_of_Psi

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

3 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Oh, you're attempting to troll. That's nice. Good for you.

No, you’re trolling. I agree that when you’re in a mission with other players it’s “peer-to-peer” but trading has nothing to do with this, all state (your items, amount of platinum, etc) is stored on DE’s server, unless of course I don’t know something and Warframe is actually running on a blockchain.

[Birdframe_Prime]

13 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

No, you’re trolling. I agree that when you’re in a mission with other players it’s “peer-to-peer” but trading has nothing to do with this, all state

Yes it does, because DE literally told us it does.

But not in the way you think, because you've got the wrong end of the stick. Try reading the discussion again.

Here's the nut-shell version of the argument I've been making on this topic:

Because Warframe is primarily Peer-to-Peer for regular interaction between players, DE can't enforce trades unless you go onto their servers, in the Dojo or the Bazaar. You must initiate a server connection to verify. You can't trade outside of these places because outside of these places it's Peer-to-Peer.

So your entire point here has been because you thought I was saying something completely different.

Ye gods is reading comprehension too much to ask?

Can we ever really be free of troglodytes who leap on the first sentence?

14 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

^{_{(Why does calling you "Bird" sound aggressive?)}}

Not sure, Bird-3 seems fine with it.

[BansheeAndZephyrMarried]

One of my favorite forum sh*tposters of recent memory is back with another banger thread. This time they managed to cook so much popcorn without getting the thread hidden by mods. 

Keep up the good work. Please talk about how we need vote kick for your next sh*tpost. 

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

4 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Yes it does, because DE literally told us it does.

But not in the way you think, because you've got the wrong end of the stick. Try reading the discussion again.

Here's the nut-shell version of the argument I've been making on this topic:

Because Warframe is primarily Peer-to-Peer for regular interaction between players, DE can't enforce trades unless you go onto their servers, in the Dojo or the Bazaar. You must initiate a server connection to verify. You can't trade outside of these places because outside of these places it's Peer-to-Peer.

So your entire point here has been because you thought I was saying something completely different.

Ye gods is reading comprehension too much to ask?

Can we ever really be free of troglodytes who leap on the first sentence?

Not sure, Bird-3 seems fine with it.

That's literally what I'm telling you, trading is not "peer-to-peer"

[ECCHOSIERRA]

On 2024-01-05 at 3:05 AM, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

it's unrelated to trading

especially the acolytes arcanes are the most shameless, they are literally 10 pl maxed and people still sell them for like 200 pl in trade chat

First you wanna be rudely condescending to another user for not knowing something, only to be *wrong*, then you wanna claim you being wrong about what you said isnt relevant? 

 

Jesus.

[ECCHOSIERRA]

12 minutes ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

That's literally what I'm telling you, trading is not "peer-to-peer"

You had the gall to insult someone for saying warframe isnt peer to peer when it factually is, now you wanna claim (without evidence) that *well one particular feature isnt peer to peer* like it even matters. 

 

You put your foot in your mouth and now wanna move the goalposts like nobody will notice to try and protect yourself from the embarrassment.

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

5 minutes ago, ECCHOSIERRA said:

You had the gall to insult someone for saying warframe isnt peer to peer when it factually is, now you wanna claim (without evidence) that *well one particular feature isnt peer to peer* like it even matters. 

 

You put your foot in your mouth and now wanna move the goalposts like nobody will notice to try and protect yourself from the embarrassment.

We are talking about trading specifically. Trading has nothing to do with "peer to peer"

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

That's literally what I'm telling you, trading is not "peer-to-peer"

Yeah, no, I'm telling THEM. The person I was replying to?

Did you, somehow, miss that entire conversation?

Are you really that dense? Did you not read?

Now kindly do us all the favour of sitting on a traffic cone until you taste the orange.

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Yeah, no, I'm telling THEM. The person I was replying to?

Did you, somehow, miss that entire conversation?

Are you really that dense? Did you not read?

Now kindly do us all the favour of sitting on a traffic cone until you taste the orange.

No, you missed the whole conversation. You are both arguing with me that Warframe is a "peer-to-peer" game, and because of the lack of experience of Warframe developers with "peer-to-peer" games 10 years ago, they made it possible for players to "inject code" for duping items while trading. 

I am stating that this is nonsense, at the very least because the "peer-to-peer" part of Warframe has nothing to do with trading.

[Birdframe_Prime]

6 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

No, you missed the whole conversation. You are both arguing with me that Warframe is a "peer-to-peer" game, and because of the lack of experience of Warframe developers with "peer-to-peer" games 10 years ago, they made it possible for players to "inject code" for duping items while trading. 

I am stating that this is nonsense, at the very least because the "peer-to-peer" part of Warframe has nothing to do with trading.

What?

So the whole thing that I said, you just ignored it?

That because player interactions were Peer-to-Peer and DE had a problem with Code Injection, they decided to make Trading monitored and verified by their Servers, forcing players into one of the Dojos or Maroo's.

Because DE literally told us this?

Did you just completely ignore that information?

Did you just wipe that from whatever memory you claim to have?

The Peer-to-Peer nature of non-Dojo or non-Maroo's interaction is why the overall goal of a trading system that is not monitored by them, that is possible to run AFK, or possible to run without joining a server, is not going to happen.

Which is why Warframe's Peer-to-Peer nature has literally everything to do with Trading in the way that it isn't going to be used for it. In the way that it's the reason for no other Trading method apart from loading into a connected Server is going to exist, according to DE themselves.

So why, for the love of Booben, would you say it has nothing to do with this conversation?

It has everything to do with this conversation. It's the cause of this conversation.

Warframe's P2P coding is why we don't have Trading like other games do, where you can get a Marketplace in game, or a Trading Hub where you can put things up for sale and let somebody else buy them with no interaction.

That's the entire point.

That's why we don't get a smoother system.

That's why there are literally four other threads about Trading systems on the Forums live right now.

Why are you like this?

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

10 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

What?

So the whole thing that I said, you just ignored it?

That because player interactions were Peer-to-Peer and DE had a problem with Code Injection, they decided to make Trading monitored and verified by their Servers, forcing players into one of the Dojos or Maroo's.

Because DE literally told us this?

Did you just completely ignore that information?

Did you just wipe that from whatever memory you claim to have?

The Peer-to-Peer nature of non-Dojo or non-Maroo's interaction is why the overall goal of a trading system that is not monitored by them, that is possible to run AFK, or possible to run without joining a server, is not going to happen.

Which is why Warframe's Peer-to-Peer nature has literally everything to do with Trading in the way that it isn't going to be used for it. In the way that it's the reason for no other Trading method apart from loading into a connected Server is going to exist, according to DE themselves.

So why, for the love of Booben, would you say it has nothing to do with this conversation?

It has everything to do with this conversation. It's the cause of this conversation.

Warframe's P2P coding is why we don't have Trading like other games do, where you can get a Marketplace in game, or a Trading Hub where you can put things up for sale and let somebody else buy them with no interaction.

That's the entire point.

That's why we don't get a smoother system.

That's why there are literally four other threads about Trading systems on the Forums live right now.

Why are you like this?

You don't understand the architecture of Warframe. There exists a database where all information about your account is stored (your inventory, mastery rank, any kind of in-game progression, etc). It is fully controlled by DE.

Only when you enter a matchmaking for a mission, the Warframe server will arrange a "peer-to-peer" session for you, where the server of the game (the mission) is one of the players, while other players are clients. This is the only thing that is "peer-to-peer".

When a trade takes place, an official Warframe server is in charge of it, because it has actual knowledge of both players' inventories, amount of platinum on their account, etc. Trading is not "peer-to-peer", it never was. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever for it to be "peer-to-peer".

Edited January 7 by NorthernDarkIceSoul

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 minute ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

You don't understand the architecture of Warframe. There exists a database where all information about your account is stored (your inventory, mastery rank, any kind of in-game progression, etc).

Yes, which is accessed each time you go to the Arsenal, Mod Bench or similar. It's referenced when you load into a mission, for example, when you connect to another player, or load into a Relay.

Not constantly, and not between loading screens, unless you're on a true server that DE monitors, like the Dojos or Maroo's.

Trade offers are conducted on Warframe's officially monitored servers because of this.

Do you see the logic?

Now, how did we get here?

If you'll recall, you quoted me saying 'Why is Trading like this?' And said exactly what I said, that without some kind of Server in charge there would be exploitation of the Peer To Peer net code.

Which is correct. And you agreed with me by saying this is obvious, right?

I then replied to your comment, about it being obvious, with words to the effect of 'well, they were new to this'.

And you responded to that by saying... they weren't, and that DE salaries are in the 100K+ situation. Which I laughed at, because 10 years ago they definitely weren't. Due to facts and logic and existing interviews that all say that DE was on the verge of collapse 10 years ago.

You called into question my intelligence.

Which didn't change the fact that DE had never worked with P2P net code before, and were on the verge of collapse after a string of bad game dev.

And you came back with the ridiculous statement that Warframe is not P2P.

Which it is.

Only a tiny fraction of Warframe, the Dojos and public hubs like Relays, are not P2P. Every connection that is not to one of those things is P2P. That's the entire net code of Warframe.

So I believed you were trying to troll. That's because a statement as blatantly false as 'Warframe is not a P2P game' with no backup, no qualification, no tie in to a larger argument like 'trading, specifically, is not P2P'... had to be trolling and couldn't be made in good faith.

Only after I refuted that point, did you qualify that with 'Trading is not P2P'.

So.

What you did was make some absolutely bat-crap insane comments and only after getting argued with, laughed at, and called a troll did you actually qualify your statement with something that was actually relevant to the discussion.

What does that mean?

It means you haven't been paying attention to the discussion yourself, you've been making sweeping, nonsensical statements.

Let's take a breath and look at this, try and straighten out this mess you've made.

3 minutes ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever for it to be "peer-to-peer".

The discussion is trying to make the Trading system better, by using some form of system other than having to talk to a person, usually after referencing Warframe.Market, or spending ages in the Trade Chat window, going through the Dojo/Maroo's loading screen, initiating the Trade, then going back out through another loading screen to your Orbiter again.

Right?

That's what the point of this thread is, right?

So without knowing the basics of why we have to do that, it's going to be a lot of silly ideas that will get rejected out of hand, right?

Knowing what the limitations are, the ones put in by DE, is important.

It's not about making Trading P2P.

It never was about making Trading P2P.

Although there were a couple of silly comments made by others here that would basically have made Trading P2P by means of bypassing the monitored servers, or they would have gone against DE's basic mandate of wanting players to interact a bare minimum.

Your comments against me have been something you've managed to rake up from a bizarre conclusion you've had by mis-reading a comment somewhere.

My entire presence in this thread has been to report DE's views, rules and reasons, so that any discussion about this topic can move in a constructive manner.

And you turned it into a complete farce. By giving one-sentence bickering answers that were easily interpreted as nothing but trolling.

Hopefully you can just suck it up and carry on with the thread, now that you've had the full explanation, and stop pretending that I'm saying things that I'm not. Because if you can't, then the thread is going to get locked.

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

11 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Not constantly, and not between loading screens, unless you're on a true server that DE monitors, like the Dojos or Maroo's.

Said database is never accessed constantly, there is a local cache on every player's computer which is probably synced on login or similar.

13 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Hopefully you can just suck it up and carry on with the thread, now that you've had the full explanation, and stop pretending that I'm saying things that I'm not. Because if you can't, then the thread is going to get locked.

The point is that the Quality of Life of the current trading system sucks. It needs to be reworked. I'm not even asking for automation or an auction house. You can't even reliably trade in dojo, because it can just bug for no reason.

[LuckyNecro]

vor 45 Minuten schrieb Birdframe_Prime:

And you turned it into a complete farce. By giving one-sentence bickering answers that were easily interpreted as nothing but trolling.

 He is trolling in every discussion he is involved too. So don't get triggerd from him, best is to igrnore a troll.

[Slayer-.]

  

[ECCHOSIERRA]

14 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

We are talking about trading specifically. Trading has nothing to do with "peer to peer"

In your original comment, you didnt say "trading". You said *warframe*. 

If you're gonna be rude and condescending at least be correct. 

This is still a goal post move.

 

And "auction house" is still a bad idea. 

[ECCHOSIERRA]

11 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

No, you missed the whole conversation. You are both arguing with me that Warframe is a "peer-to-peer" game, and because of the lack of experience of Warframe developers with "peer-to-peer" games 10 years ago, they made it possible for players to "inject code" for duping items while trading. 

I am stating that this is nonsense, at the very least because the "peer-to-peer" part of Warframe has nothing to do with trading.

Also this is a hilarious attempt at splitting hairs to try and defend your initial claim that "warframe isnt p2p". 

5 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

You don't understand the architecture of Warframe. There exists a database where all information about your account is stored (your inventory, mastery rank, any kind of in-game progression, etc). It is fully controlled by DE.

Only when you enter a matchmaking for a mission, the Warframe server will arrange a "peer-to-peer" session for you, where the server of the game (the mission) is one of the players, while other players are clients. This is the only thing that is "peer-to-peer".

When a trade takes place, an official Warframe server is in charge of it, because it has actual knowledge of both players' inventories, amount of platinum on their account, etc. Trading is not "peer-to-peer", it never was. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever for it to be "peer-to-peer".

 

4 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Yes, which is accessed each time you go to the Arsenal, Mod Bench or similar. It's referenced when you load into a mission, for example, when you connect to another player, or load into a Relay.

Not constantly, and not between loading screens, unless you're on a true server that DE monitors, like the Dojos or Maroo's.

Trade offers are conducted on Warframe's officially monitored servers because of this.

Do you see the logic?

Now, how did we get here?

If you'll recall, you quoted me saying 'Why is Trading like this?' And said exactly what I said, that without some kind of Server in charge there would be exploitation of the Peer To Peer net code.

Which is correct. And you agreed with me by saying this is obvious, right?

I then replied to your comment, about it being obvious, with words to the effect of 'well, they were new to this'.

And you responded to that by saying... they weren't, and that DE salaries are in the 100K+ situation. Which I laughed at, because 10 years ago they definitely weren't. Due to facts and logic and existing interviews that all say that DE was on the verge of collapse 10 years ago.

You called into question my intelligence.

Which didn't change the fact that DE had never worked with P2P net code before, and were on the verge of collapse after a string of bad game dev.

And you came back with the ridiculous statement that Warframe is not P2P.

Which it is.

Only a tiny fraction of Warframe, the Dojos and public hubs like Relays, are not P2P. Every connection that is not to one of those things is P2P. That's the entire net code of Warframe.

So I believed you were trying to troll. That's because a statement as blatantly false as 'Warframe is not a P2P game' with no backup, no qualification, no tie in to a larger argument like 'trading, specifically, is not P2P'... had to be trolling and couldn't be made in good faith.

Only after I refuted that point, did you qualify that with 'Trading is not P2P'.

So.

What you did was make some absolutely bat-crap insane comments and only after getting argued with, laughed at, and called a troll did you actually qualify your statement with something that was actually relevant to the discussion.

What does that mean?

It means you haven't been paying attention to the discussion yourself, you've been making sweeping, nonsensical statements.

Let's take a breath and look at this, try and straighten out this mess you've made.

The discussion is trying to make the Trading system better, by using some form of system other than having to talk to a person, usually after referencing Warframe.Market, or spending ages in the Trade Chat window, going through the Dojo/Maroo's loading screen, initiating the Trade, then going back out through another loading screen to your Orbiter again.

Right?

That's what the point of this thread is, right?

So without knowing the basics of why we have to do that, it's going to be a lot of silly ideas that will get rejected out of hand, right?

Knowing what the limitations are, the ones put in by DE, is important.

It's not about making Trading P2P.

It never was about making Trading P2P.

Although there were a couple of silly comments made by others here that would basically have made Trading P2P by means of bypassing the monitored servers, or they would have gone against DE's basic mandate of wanting players to interact a bare minimum.

Your comments against me have been something you've managed to rake up from a bizarre conclusion you've had by mis-reading a comment somewhere.

My entire presence in this thread has been to report DE's views, rules and reasons, so that any discussion about this topic can move in a constructive manner.

And you turned it into a complete farce. By giving one-sentence bickering answers that were easily interpreted as nothing but trolling.

Hopefully you can just suck it up and carry on with the thread, now that you've had the full explanation, and stop pretending that I'm saying things that I'm not. Because if you can't, then the thread is going to get locked.

This thread should have been locked days ago i dont know why it hasnt been. 

4 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

Said database is never accessed constantly, there is a local cache on every player's computer which is probably synced on login or similar.

The point is that the Quality of Life of the current trading system sucks. It needs to be reworked. I'm not even asking for automation or an auction house. You can't even reliably trade in dojo, because it can just bug for no reason.

Boy we sure are playing antics with semantics now arent we. 

"Peer to peer" games cannot be said that they are not peer to peer and anyone who says they are, lacks intelligence, just because some aspect of the game involves servers. 

"No you dont understand this isnt a BURRITO because it has LETTUCE in it and SALADS have lettuce". And. 

You literally flat out said "i want that" when i talked about a fire and forget auction house being a bad idea. 

This is *another* goal post move. We've gone from "i want an auction house where every single person can put everything in their inventory in a list abd then people can buy it without any effort or involvement on my part" which is a terrible idea for several reasons tob"no no i just want minor QOL fixes?

 

Look. Sitting there in trade chat waiting for the message cooldown to reset over and over spamming "wts whatever" hoping you get hits is often not fun. Waiting for hits on Warframe market is also often not fun. 

But that's the thing. If youre trying to sell a mesa set at 11:00pm on a friday night you only have to compete with whoever else has one for sale and is also wading through it just like you.

But the moment the effort required to sell anything goes from what it is now to zero guess what, youre not gonna be competing with just whoever else is staring at chat/market at 11:00pm on a friday night hoping to make a sale anymore. No. Youre competing with every single person who has the same items as you period. 

Doesn't matter if theyre offline. Doesnt matter if theyre looking at chat or in a mission. 

Instead of 10 sellers there might be 100 or more. Meanwhile the demand will not change because why would it. You gotta be online to even use anything anyway.

All i gotta do is undercut you by 1p and guess what. Someone's just gonna see the same mesa sets (or whatever) on the list and look for whoever has the cheapest price. Why buy from you. 

If warframe was *entirely* a free market ecosystem maybe it would even out somehow. Maybe plat would be harder to make from sales but prices would be lower. Maybe.

But meanwhile we have the in game market for everything from forma bundles to color palletes to skins and those prices are not dynamic.

Free to players would be screwed.

 

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

5 hours ago, ECCHOSIERRA said:

Free to players would be screwed.

Free to play players who don't want to deal with trade chat, or use outside websites like Warframe.market are already screwed.

Currently, everything in their inventories that they do not plan to use, and would otherwise sell, is worth exactly ZERO plat.

The instant an auction house exists (the definition for this point being: a place to list items for set prices that other players can interact with while you are playing missions or offline asleep to buy and receive without any other interaction on your part - this does not need to be a list that sources ALL available sellers... it could be limited to players merchant stalls in hub cities that people have to visit individually to browse wares), the instant that becomes available, everything in the game becomes worth something, even 1 plat. Even at this low price, it's an infinite increase in value, and people will buy any prime parts, because they can be exchanged for ducats... there will be buyers...

While it may take more effort to obtain prime parts to sell on such a market, it will be worthwhile with such a system, for a greater amount of players than currently interact with the trade chat/warframe.market systems.

I don't have ANY sympathy for people who are profiting from a false scarcity of supply.

I DO have sympathy for people who cannot devote hours to sit in trade chat watching for the items they want to buy/sell, only to be forced into haggling and waiting for missions to finish and meeting up in dojos and bugs and junk, or only have limited time to play, and aren't online when the people offering/buying their items are around.

I guess we know who wants the best for who... given the arguments for, and against, "auction houses"...

[(XBOX)Muevelos]

No we don't, thanks.

[Birdframe_Prime]

14 hours ago, LuckyNecro said:

 He is trolling in every discussion he is involved too. So don't get triggerd from him, best is to igrnore a troll.

Yeah, you're right. Noticed it in one of the others where this little pant stain decided to 'nuh uh' a discussion as 'it's just laziness by the devs' after another person gave a reasoned and well-argued point about the topic. And doubled-down.

Blocking that waste of space.

[TioMegaManX]

My proposal, have an in-game auction house which only requires you to be online, DE doesn't want us to be able to trade while not playing, whatever, then at least let me play, we still need 2FA and all that.