NorthernDarkIceSoul Posted December 31, 2023 Author Share Posted December 31, 2023 7 minutes ago, (PSN)iuvenilis said: If you have some ideas to improve warframe.market, that's perhaps something worth discussing. However, in my trading experience, the website works quite well. Although there are currently some potential issues, I have yet to see any indication that there's anything that needs to be fixed. It certainly would be nice if DE allowed some sort of API to help confirm user accounts and that you actually have the item for sale, but I just don't see there being any sort of widespread issue that needs to be addressed (happy to be proven wrong of course). The site itself is very slow, but it's a different story. The issue is that there is no OAuth2 or similar way to verify that you own the username you specified on warframe.market, so warframe.market devs came up with this forum verification. The forum verification is unreliable and slow, and on top of that, if you register a new account, you will notice that you can't even sent messages on forum, which is DE's way to fight bots I guess, so it's even harder for warframe.market devs to maintain this verification system, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)iuvenilis Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 45 minutes ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said: The site itself is very slow, but it's a different story. The issue is that there is no OAuth2 or similar way to verify that you own the username you specified on warframe.market, so warframe.market devs came up with this forum verification. The forum verification is unreliable and slow, and on top of that, if you register a new account, you will notice that you can't even sent messages on forum, which is DE's way to fight bots I guess, so it's even harder for warframe.market devs to maintain this verification system, To be honest, I think you'd be better off just locking this thread down now and start up a new one, but focus specifically on first identifying the issue, and then discussing some simple effective solutions. So focus only on what you mentioned here, though you may still have some challenges convincing people these issues are big enough that they warrant attention. But as long as you focus solely on improving warframe.market, then you might get some good ideas bouncing around. This conversation usually gets derailed very quickly and leads no where. If you can stay clear of any sort of automated trading or auction house, you might be able to get a productive conversation happening (I wouldn't hold my breath though, this is an internet gaming forum, which are generally not well known for educated or constructive respectful conversations). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernDarkIceSoul Posted December 31, 2023 Author Share Posted December 31, 2023 1 minute ago, (PSN)iuvenilis said: To be honest, I think you'd be better off just locking this thread down now and start up a new one, but focus specifically on first identifying the issue, and then discussing some simple effective solutions. So focus only on what you mentioned here, though you may still have some challenges convincing people these issues are big enough that they warrant attention. But as long as you focus solely on improving warframe.market, then you might get some good ideas bouncing around. This conversation usually gets derailed very quickly and leads no where. If you can stay clear of any sort of automated trading or auction house, you might be able to get a productive conversation happening (I wouldn't hold my breath though, this is an internet gaming forum, which are generally not well known for educated or constructive respectful conversations). This thread is not about warframe.market, it's about a trading rework. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)iuvenilis Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 12 minutes ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said: This thread is not about warframe.market, it's about a trading rework. I understand that. My point was, it's not a conversation that will go anywhere. Just use the search function for "auction house" and you'll start to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernDarkIceSoul Posted December 31, 2023 Author Share Posted December 31, 2023 Just now, (PSN)iuvenilis said: I understand that. My point was, it's not a conversation that will go anywhere. Just use the search function for "auction house" and you'll start to understand. The point is to make a thread so that DE sees it and, even if they don't do anything, it will leave an impact on their neuron inside their brain and, hopefully, eventually, this will lead to something meaningful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)iuvenilis Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 11 minutes ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said: The point is to make a thread so that DE sees it and, even if they don't do anything, it will leave an impact on their neuron inside their brain and, hopefully, eventually, this will lead to something meaningful. We've had this conversation a hundred times before, and you've added nothing new to it. You're not going to shift the dial for some random post "rework trading". Use the search function.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechNexus Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 Having seen TF2 develop from a war-themed hat simulator (joking) to a war themed hat simulator (real) over the years I can sympathise with DE's reluctance to add any kind of automated or offline trading. I'm happy to accept some clunk if it mitigates that kind of shift. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobie-wan Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 Most games don't let you trade the premium currency. The fact we can is great. But it's in their interest to make it not too tradable so that people will still buy platinum if they want something now instead of farming items and spending the time looking for someone who wants to buy those items that has themselves bought or acquired platinum. It's a tradeoff between time and money like forma, potatoes, and everything else. DE needs and deserves to be paid in order for the game to exist and be worked on, a little bit of friction that pushes enough people one way or the other is necessary for everything to function. As has been said in many many threads already. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuyver Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 4 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said: This isn't the point. The point is that I have to stay in dojo, and even then it's not guaranteed to work because it's extremely buggy, sometimes you literally can't see the player in both game and trading post. Oh noes I have to be social in my massive multi-player online game, woe is me! Dojos are hosted on actual servers now like relays so if you're having connection issues or bug it's the instance that's being created. Considering people in low pop regions with 350+ ping go over to other regions for trading it's bound to happen with an in person trade or not. If you're having issues in the same region then it might be on your end. 4 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said: It's quite obvious that if there is no official server in charge of the trade then it's going to be abused. It's DE's fault for not understanding this. Support can easily pull up a list of trades done by you or whoever else. So yes, it is documented and stored for accessibility in the event of problems like bad platinum from chargebacks. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trst Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 2 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said: The point is to make a thread so that DE sees it and, even if they don't do anything, it will leave an impact on their neuron inside their brain and, hopefully, eventually, this will lead to something meaningful. Then you immediately failed in that aspect as your posted this in general discussion instead of one of the Feedback subforums. DE rarely ever looks here as there's no reason for them to do so. But also this topic is so old that the horse has long since turned to dust. DE knows players want changes to the trading system and yet DE has continued to say "no" and not make any changes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernDarkIceSoul Posted December 31, 2023 Author Share Posted December 31, 2023 38 minutes ago, TheGuyver said: Dojos are hosted on actual servers now like relays so if you're having connection issues or bug it's the instance that's being created. And the point of this? Number of people who actually give a firetruck about this is like 1% of all players. I just want to trade without people thinking that I'm taking 30 minutes to send them a trade, but it's actually the stupid game that doesn't work and I just don't see them in dojo. 11 minutes ago, trst said: Then you immediately failed in that aspect as your posted this in general discussion instead of one of the Feedback subforums. DE rarely ever looks here as there's no reason for them to do so. But also this topic is so old that the horse has long since turned to dust. DE knows players want changes to the trading system and yet DE has continued to say "no" and not make any changes. They look everywhere, they just don't reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Madurai-Prime Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 If you miss a sale, there's 75 other people that will fill the order. That's why an auction house won't work. I also doubt you're so busy every single second you log in. If you have a minute between missions or are (most likely) chatting anyways...throw some offers out in Trade chat. What I do is wait until I'm not in mission...then turn on my warframe market account as active. Either way, the fact that people make thousands trading with no issue means it's fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Madurai-Prime Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 6 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said: This isn't the point. The point is that I have to stay in dojo, and even then it's not guaranteed to work because it's extremely buggy, sometimes you literally can't see the player in both game and trading post. All my loading problems disappeared with a PS5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 seems plenty answered the misconceptions OP had my personal thoughts on some of the topics broached issue is the trade system ingame is very archaic, and aged to a point its been abused "repeatedly" by some organized individuals for nefarious purposes out of house 3rd party apps/bots were done to try and organize data, de did eventually offer data open links for those to pull from and run better transparency (plenty of discords uses them) though prior nefarious people have attempted to sabotage due to it affecting their business , repeatedly... or wanted to keep it private for themselves to abuse this old system warframe market is nice in some aspects for trade prices being preset and seeing a pattern and everything is convenient (honestly an organized searchable system like this would be nice ingame , still abusable but least its easier to spot /track. its already done out of game again by various methods, this means de can implement it internally , however time effort and cost to focus on this integration would cut into developments of new content/updates which do make $ for de , and given tencents recent hit with some backlash via china new legislation on games ... could be far away from what that parent company could want given they need to makeup for losses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trst Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 59 minutes ago, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said: seems plenty answered the misconceptions OP had my personal thoughts on some of the topics broached issue is the trade system ingame is very archaic, and aged to a point its been abused "repeatedly" by some organized individuals for nefarious purposes out of house 3rd party apps/bots were done to try and organize data, de did eventually offer data open links for those to pull from and run better transparency (plenty of discords uses them) though prior nefarious people have attempted to sabotage due to it affecting their business , repeatedly... or wanted to keep it private for themselves to abuse this old system That said an AH system of any sort would be ripe for far more abuse. Players could just run bots to buy out any item below their desired market value the moment it's listed. Or players could automate back and forth selling at an inflated price to inflate the value of things. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkelheit Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 vor 13 Stunden schrieb NorthernDarkIceSoul: Not only the current trading system requires a use of warframe.market, it's still extremely inconvenient as in order to trade you not only need a dojo, you also need to be physically present in the dojo and a lot of times when people join my dojo, I can't even see them, so it's real buggy. Not to mention that I can't even go do something else while I'm expecting people to message me, because if I'm in a mission, I have to either make them wait or leave and rush to dojo which is insane. Trade chat in this game is dumb, everyone knows that. It must be deleted. Can't wait to have a trading system that I don't need instead of an expansion /s. This worked for 10 years, it might work for another 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernDarkIceSoul Posted January 1 Author Share Posted January 1 15 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said: Can't wait to have a trading system that I don't need instead of an expansion /s. This worked for 10 years, it might work for another 10. might as well close all other threads because worked for 10 years might as well mork for another 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollexMessier Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Here I was thinking this was going to be a reasonable post asking to fix the atrocious state of crosstrade. But no it's just another person who doesn't understand the current trading system is the way it is to prevent the player economy from completely self destructing like it does in literally every game that has an in-game player market. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer-. Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 11 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said: The point is to make a thread so that DE sees it and, even if they don't do anything, it will leave an impact on their neuron inside their brain and, hopefully, eventually, this will lead to something meaningful. So that DE sees it, you have great hope there, this thread will end up like all the other threads over the years on the same topic posted by someone who had a moment of brain synapses firing for a millisecond, then found out it is futile. For the time capsule. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdframe_Prime Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 17 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said: It's quite obvious that if there is no official server in charge of the trade then it's going to be abused. It's DE's fault for not understanding this. Well, remember that this was 10 years ago, and DE didn't realise how easy it can be to inject code into P2P connections. Remember that they were learning this too. 17 hours ago, quxier said: I wonder if it's possible to make 2nd invisible to players. Like you 2 players want to trade, you invite another person. You make "shop window" (e.g. like in Maroo's way), another player clicks X (to accept), you get trading windows... and everything else is like your usual trading. Player see that as going to another player's ship to trade. However from DE side it would be creating "servers that monitors trade". Would that be "easily" possible? Almost certainly possible, but with one wrinkle; The only servers DE can monitor are ones that they actually use/own/rent. It's not really a matter of 'creating' them. What you're describing is basically just another generated Peer To Peer connection, which is what DE have specifically used the Dojos and Maroo's to avoid. The whole thing with joining a Dojo is because the Dojo system is capable of hosting players like a Relay is, and is on one of the servers that DE uses in the first place. So... basically even with the whole idea of creating a UI around the player that's specifically for trading, the process would still be 'Step 1. Load into a server together with the other player and an active connection monitored by DE.' And if that's the case, both players would still go through a loading screen, and have to then initiate the trade from there, the same as they currently do with Dojos and Maroo's. When you think about it that way, why go to all the extra effort of creating that, when the same process already exists in the current form? 17 hours ago, Naroxas44 said: That said, I get they implemented it in such a way to avoid things like automation or bots for trading items, and it does serve that purpose (though you could track those things in other methods too, like frequency / speed of trades). It does still feel a bit archaic in implementation Look, I hear you, it just... I'm reporting what DE have said, not pulling random reasons out of my butt. DE want us to be online. They want us to get whispered and communicate and have that whole difficulty with not being in mission or anything else. They don't want us to be able to list stuff while we're not online. That's why the Market exists in the first place as a fan-made thing. The fans want this, but DE don't. So I get what we're all saying here. However. Even when people say 'Oh, well it's the new team in charge now.' they're forgetting that this new team was part of the old team, and the person at the top of the new team was the one that was against offline or AFK trading right along with the old team. Which means... it's not likely to change any time soon. Not likely. Possible. Just not likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)AyinDygra Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 I just stopped trading entirely, a LONG time ago. They can't figure out something that MMOs have had for decades? I'm sorry. The reasons they have for not wanting this are... lacking a suitable foundation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Player244024418 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said: They don't want us to be able to list stuff while we're not online. I agree but the trading interface is still terrible. What you meant to says was... "They don't want us doing anything but playing Warframe" Happy New Year everyone. We need to make 2024 what we want it, and future years, to be. Reality is a b1t€h Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECCHOSIERRA Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Yet another auction house thread. No, for the same reasons stated in every other auction house thread. No, warframe doesn't "need" this. No, you dont want this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Madurai-Prime Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said: I agree but the trading interface is still terrible. What you meant to says was... "They don't want us doing anything but playing Warframe" Happy New Year everyone. We need to make 2024 what we want it, and future years, to be. Reality is a b1t€h You want 2024 to be instability, bots and RMT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Player244024418 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 2 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said: You want 2024 to be instability, bots and RMT? These do not equate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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