Vaulting makes it unable to come back to this game

[DjSpunn]

I was a beta tester loved it huge fan advocated it to my console friends even. But whatever circumstance caused me to stop playing, I tried to come back a few times but the vaulting of everything makes it impossible to want to dedicate any time into a game that will probably pull the floor from under my feet with my current quest at any given moment. It’s frustrating to have 3/4 prerequisites for a prime frame or weapon and knowing I will NEVER get it unless I spend hundreds of real life dollars (that’s more time cause to get money you sacrifice time) it’s unbearable like just allow all content to be accessible? The grind was already unreal 5 days of playtime hours for 3/4 of the pieces that a lot like ALOT ALOT

Edited January 23 by DjSpunn

[Ruwr]

Or you learn how to play tradechat.

[Hikuro-93]

1 hour ago, DjSpunn said:

I will NEVER get it

You won't, if you're impatient and really want it "now, right now". The same way there's vaultings, there's also unvaultings. It's merely a matter of picking up what the winds bring you and not be picky about specific items.

_{That said, I have a friend just like that. Doesn't like to wait for stuff to come back, gives up. Then misses out on a whole lot of new stuff that gets added to that pile of things to do. Then returns, gets easily overwhelmed again, and gives up, complains to heaven and hell. And expects me to just give him everything he didn't want to farm when he had the chance (which I don't anymore) even though he could have done it alongside me, getting the very same stuff I did, when I did.}

It's one thing to give up and never return - ok, maybe it's not the best game for everyone, which is acceptable. But to want to play, and return, knowing how it works, and then getting fed up and giving up while disliking the game - that's way beyond me. It's a love-hate relationship with enphasis on the hate side, and that's not good.

Trust me, if you stick with it, be patient and diversify your gameplay you'll eventually get to that sweet spot where you have most stuff and just need to farm any new stuff that gets released every 1-2 months. To be clear, it will likely take a long time, given just how much stuff this game has. Going away is fine, specially when burnout sets in, but remember that if you wanna eventually comeback you'll just be sweeping dust under the rug.

As mentioned above, trade chat/warframe market is also a good strategy to combat this, and spending loads of IRL money is by no means an obligation. Sell whatever stuff you have in excess, and take advantage of supply and demand (for example, Gauss Prime gear was a very good sell during the release window, still is) to sell stuff at higher prices while they're more sought after, and before the price drops. Then buy whatever you don't have (and need) with the platinum you just made.

Now it's just a matter of deciding what's worth it, and what's not. Kudos!

Edited January 23 by Hikuro-93

[VibingCat]

If you haven't played for a few years, your relics are sheer gold. Crack them with your friends, radiants-only runs, and sell what you don't need. This way you'll make more platinum than players who use fresh relics.

[Famecans]

Thoughts.

1st. For me trading chat is is a boss fight, communicative hell with loading screen disputes, sometimes a single trade can cost you two to four loading screens.

2nd. Requiring all game content to be handed over as a guaranteed reward in some missions minutes devalues the progression of any game.

3rd. If you are chained to playing real life it is fair to recognize that you must use real life resources to buy your entertainment in virtual life.

4th. If you are chained to having fun in the virtual world, it is fair to recognize that you must waste time in the virtual world to ensure entertainment to your real life.

Good luck!!!

[Mazifet]

http://Warframe.market

please stop with these troll bait threads

Edited January 23 by Mazifet

[Tsukinoki]

3 hours ago, DjSpunn said:

It’s frustrating to have 3/4 prerequisites for a prime frame or weapon and knowing I will NEVER get it unless I spend hundreds of real life dollars

And what is locked away to the point where you will "never" get it?

I mean with aya and unvaultings you can now actually get pretty much everything in the game if you actually care to spend the time getting it.
Will it be fast?  Nope.  But you kinda lost out on it being fast by taking such a long break from the game.

You might want to take a look at "Prime Resurgence" here and look at the current and upcoming resurgence and what you can get.
You can also see what else was available in the past and will return in the future as resurgence continues.

As things come available in resurgence you will have plenty of time to farm up some aya, buy the relics you need for whatever you're after, and then get the parts you're missing.

 

Again, this will take a while to do, but you will eventually have whatever you're missing.

3 hours ago, DjSpunn said:

vaulting of everything makes it impossible to want to dedicate any time into a game that will probably pull the floor from under my feet with my current quest at any given moment.

Vaulting is mentioned quite a bit in advance of what will be vaulted when the next prime set comes out.

So you will have warning of "Hey these relics containing this frame and it's weapons will be vaulted when the next prime frame releases"
This gives you plenty of time to either farm out the frame and it's weapons or to just farm a crap ton of its relics so you can farm the parts out at your leisure.

3 hours ago, DjSpunn said:

unless I spend hundreds of real life dollars

And spending money isn't needed unless you want everything right this very instant.

If you're ok with spending some time you can farm out some prime parts that are available, trade for plat, and use that plat to buy the parts you're after without dropping a dime of your own money in the game.

And if you're actually willing to be patient you won't even need to do that as you can just wait for the items you want to come into rotation with prime resurgence.

[Gamer_Auto]

On one hand, Prime Resurgence fixed this issue before it was even brought up. And Regal Aya is far cheaper than even Unvaultings were.

On the other hand, I get the frustration. It feels like an arbitrary limitation to artificially move the Player Economy (which is a concept I've always despised). And even Resurgence takes forever to add particular Prime bundles to its rotation.

So I get it, but in terms of what the majority of the playerbase wants (or has been forced to get used to), there's nothing that'll be done about it.

[Hobie-wan]

If things weren't vaulted and never rotated, you'd really never be able to get the drops for what you wanted because with things being added all the time the pool of relics would be so diluted you'd rarely get one you needed.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Well, Aya is a thing. Prime resurgence is probably not ideal, but it's functional.

Cracking relics is what it is, sometimes it's easy and you get all you wanted in a couple runs, sometimes it takes weeks.

 

You can buy the shiny pretty stuff, but that's not exactly playing the game.

If you hit a random public squad, there's always a non zero chance that someone is trying to crack the relic that has what you are looking for, and technically, nothing is vaulted forever.

 

That being said, trading between players is a thing. You may not like it, but it's a reliable way to get something you need because there's always players farming just about anything.

[PollexMessier]

I get the frustration with the prime vault.

But it might help to understand why it exits. Other than DE making money form the artificial scarcity.

Loot dilution. Someone already brought this up, but if every prime part was available all the time. the drop chances on them would have to be so low that it'd be nearly impossible to ever get the specific thing you want.

The other is player economy. The thing that makes the game so accessible to free to play players is trading. and vaulting primes does a lot for players' ability to actually get and sell items for substantial prices.

I know it's a hard pill to swallow but if you wanna be an F2P player you really need to interact with player trading. Someone's already linked you to warframe.market which makes this a lot more manageable. And no, the devs are never going to implement an in-game market.

[(PSN)maelstromm15]

On 2024-01-23 at 10:35 AM, VibingCat said:

If you haven't played for a few years, your relics are sheer gold. Crack them with your friends, radiants-only runs, and sell what you don't need. This way you'll make more platinum than players who use fresh relics.

My problem after coming back after a long break, is that I have over 2000 freaking relics, 90% of which are vaulted, and I have no idea what to run lol

[PollexMessier]

38 minutes ago, (PSN)maelstromm15 said:

My problem after coming back after a long break, is that I have over 2000 freaking relics, 90% of which are vaulted, and I have no idea what to run lol

Frames are always going to be the most valuable cus frames don't typically get power-creeped into uselessness like weapons do. And Nuker frames like Saryn or Mesa tend to be the most valuable. Or powerful utility frames like Volt, Nova, Rhino, or Frost.

A few standout weapons like Glaive and Redeemer, or anything with a matching incarnon adapter like Bo, Soma, Boar, or Strun (tho strun is a fairly recent prime) will also be pretty valuable.

It's a bit of work but just checking prices on warframe.market for what you have available and seeing what's worth going for isn't a bad idea.

Prices are gonna very based on if anything's been unvaulted recently or not tho

[Gamer_Auto]

12 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Loot dilution. Someone already brought this up, but if every prime part was available all the time. the drop chances on them would have to be so low that it'd be nearly impossible to ever get the specific thing you want.

Fixed spawn locations, mission system like the Grendel parts, Steel Path rewards. There are solutions to this problem that don't involve arbitrary player markets where the price of an item can vary wildly, sometimes in the same update cycle, based on what bugs were fixed and what nerfs/buffs were dealt out.

If DE fixed the prices, it wouldn't be an issue. But leaving it to wildly fluctuate based on the whims of the playerbase? I'd rather just buy the max bundle, help fund the development of the game in my small way, and save myself the trouble of the horrible Relic system and frustrating market people.

[PollexMessier]

1 hour ago, Gamer_Auto said:

Fixed spawn locations, mission system like the Grendel parts, Steel Path rewards. There are solutions to this problem that don't involve arbitrary player markets where the price of an item can vary wildly, sometimes in the same update cycle, based on what bugs were fixed and what nerfs/buffs were dealt out.

Sure but that leads to something I'd find much more annoying.

Restricting where any given thing can be farmed, so current efficient farming methods are no longer possible, replaced with needing to run painfully slow and boring garbage gamemodes like survival and defense for hours on end to get what you want. And effectively forcing it to be farmed to be obtained at all instead of passively accumulating relics through regular play.

Plus, again, the way it's currently setup is also a profit incentive for the devs.

And you know if they did that they'd be tempted to lock everything to rotation C of endless missions. And by "tempted" I mean there is literally no reality in which they don't do that. Farms for certain primes would go from taking a week to get a whole release, to taking months to get one item.

The main thing I feel could really improve the current system is streamlining how prime parts are distributed between relics. Every prime release ever can have all their parts condensed into a set of 3 relics per release, some could even be condensed down into 2 relics if the release contained a secondary and mele with 3 parts a piece. With loads of space still remaining for forma and evergreen parts. Instead of having each part individually spread out across 10+ different relics on release. Currently, the amount of prime releases available at any given time is 7, and the amount of relics available at any given time is around 32-36 (not counting prime resurgence and primes that are permanently unvaulted). There's a lot of redundancy due to multiple relics carrying the same part existing in drop tables at any given moment.
If they gave each release it's own set of 3 relics: Ether the amount of relics diluting drop tables could be cut down to 21 (thus massively increasing the chances of getting the relics you want), or the amount of available prime releases could be increased to 10-12. Ether way is a roughly 33% improvement to the system,

And they really just need to start increasing the amount of prime releases Varzia has available at any given time. Prime unvaults were in pairs back when there were half as many as there are now. She should at least carry 4 at a time if not more.

They don't need to go removing the vault entirely and upending how relics are obtained to improve the system substantially.

There's also a benefit to the vaulting system I forgot. Relicshare groups. This function of the game makes getting the part you want from a relic massively faster than farming it on your own. and once a prime's been out for a while it's nearly impossible to get one of these groups going for it. The vaulting and unvaulting system refreshes interest in primes in a way that makes getting these groups for older primes massively easier. If all primes were always available it'd be impossible to find relicshares for anything but the most recent prime release.

Edited January 26 by PollexMessier

[VibingCat]

7 hours ago, (PSN)maelstromm15 said:

My problem after coming back after a long break, is that I have over 2000 freaking relics, 90% of which are vaulted, and I have no idea what to run lol

Ah, suffering from success!

Check the average prices on Warframe Market first, don't waste any relics. If you need to farm traces, I suggest you crack some relics with valuable common drops, or just your unvaulted ones.

[haolee510]

Prime Resurgence. Honestly, it's probably an even better way to grind specific Primes than normal relics, since you can just buy the relics you want with Aya instead of farming random relic drops.

[Xzorn]

Primes are way less an annoyance than many normal frames. Citrine? Shoot me please.

Even if you have 0 plat you can farm, sell and buy a set faster than some of those grinds.

I came back after a 5 year break and have every prime outside Atlas, Zhuge and Panthera. Being an older player should be a perk not a determent.

[Tsukinoki]

12 hours ago, Gamer_Auto said:

Fixed spawn locations, mission system like the Grendel parts, Steel Path rewards. There are solutions to this problem that don't involve arbitrary player markets where the price of an item can vary wildly, sometimes in the same update cycle, based on what bugs were fixed and what nerfs/buffs were dealt out.

And these all have quite large pitfalls.

From the issue of the annoyance that this one relic for a part I need only drops from steel path defection at rotation C at an ungodly low percentage chance, to what happens whenever a new relic is released (After all it has to put somewhere and where-ever it is put will lower the chances for every other possible relic on that node), to the sheer annoyance of "Ok, bounties can offer this relic.....now I just need to sit and twiddle my thumbs for hours upon hours for the bounties to cycle so that I can even start to grind for the relic I need!"

13 hours ago, Gamer_Auto said:

If DE fixed the prices, it wouldn't be an issue.

So basically remove the player agency from any sort of trading all together?
Never being able to just give away the prime part?  No trying to sell prime trash parts for ducats at low prices?

At that point what's the point of player trading when its "This piece is worth 3 plat, yes it's a gold rare, no you can't sell it for anything else...."

[Gamer_Auto]

19 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Sure but that leads to something I'd find much more annoying.

Restricting where any given thing can be farmed, so current efficient farming methods are no longer possible, replaced with needing to run painfully slow and boring garbage gamemodes like survival and defense for hours on end to get what you want. And effectively forcing it to be farmed to be obtained at all instead of passively accumulating relics through regular play.

Plus, again, the way it's currently setup is also a profit incentive for the devs.

And you know if they did that they'd be tempted to lock everything to rotation C of endless missions. And by "tempted" I mean there is literally no reality in which they don't do that. Farms for certain primes would go from taking a week to get a whole release, to taking months to get one item.

The main thing I feel could really improve the current system is streamlining how prime parts are distributed between relics. Every prime release ever can have all their parts condensed into a set of 3 relics per release, some could even be condensed down into 2 relics if the release contained a secondary and mele with 3 parts a piece. With loads of space still remaining for forma and evergreen parts. Instead of having each part individually spread out across 10+ different relics on release. Currently, the amount of prime releases available at any given time is 7, and the amount of relics available at any given time is around 32-36 (not counting prime resurgence and primes that are permanently unvaulted). There's a lot of redundancy due to multiple relics carrying the same part existing in drop tables at any given moment.
If they gave each release it's own set of 3 relics: Ether the amount of relics diluting drop tables could be cut down to 21 (thus massively increasing the chances of getting the relics you want), or the amount of available prime releases could be increased to 10-12. Ether way is a roughly 33% improvement to the system,

And they really just need to start increasing the amount of prime releases Varzia has available at any given time. Prime unvaults were in pairs back when there were half as many as there are now. She should at least carry 4 at a time if not more.

They don't need to go removing the vault entirely and upending how relics are obtained to improve the system substantially.

There's also a benefit to the vaulting system I forgot. Relicshare groups. This function of the game makes getting the part you want from a relic massively faster than farming it on your own. and once a prime's been out for a while it's nearly impossible to get one of these groups going for it. The vaulting and unvaulting system refreshes interest in primes in a way that makes getting these groups for older primes massively easier. If all primes were always available it'd be impossible to find relicshares for anything but the most recent prime release.

7 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

And these all have quite large pitfalls.

From the issue of the annoyance that this one relic for a part I need only drops from steel path defection at rotation C at an ungodly low percentage chance, to what happens whenever a new relic is released (After all it has to put somewhere and where-ever it is put will lower the chances for every other possible relic on that node), to the sheer annoyance of "Ok, bounties can offer this relic.....now I just need to sit and twiddle my thumbs for hours upon hours for the bounties to cycle so that I can even start to grind for the relic I need!"

Or, instead of what I suggested about drop locations, Relics could now have some kind of immediate one-time-use item. Upon cracking a Relic and getting one of three tiers of this item, you can get a Bronze, Silver, or Gold piece/blueprint either by random, or by intentional selection with the ability to filter out what you have/have already built. It could then be divided up between the 4 base eras (Lith, Meso, Neo, Axi) in any number of ways. Maybe Secondary, Primary, Melee, Warframe; or by release date. So you still have the stuff worth more Ducks, but it makes it easier to grind for the people who haven't built the Prime gear yet. With the amount of Primes only going up, and continuing to grind once or twice an update, the grind will be just as long if not longer eventually, so making it more convenient instead of more tedious should be the priority.

And you can still have Prime Resurgence and Prime Access for the people that don't want to grind out Relics (because the "refinement" system is BS, I rarely ever get gold stuff even on max refines) and want to support the game.

8 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

So basically remove the player agency from any sort of trading all together?
Never being able to just give away the prime part?  No trying to sell prime trash parts for ducats at low prices?

At that point what's the point of player trading when its "This piece is worth 3 plat, yes it's a gold rare, no you can't sell it for anything else...."

1. Most players have no idea how economics works in real life. And you really expect people constantly making poor financial decisions to be intelligent about how trade-enabled items should be priced?
2. Just add a toggle to give stuff for free, but only if it's someone on your friends list or in your guild. This encourages newbies joining guilds, because vets can help get them to end-game faster.